DemetersHarvest Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 We all have our own stories of horrible online dating blunders, but I think I'm my worst enemy, and need some feedback. I just can't seem to find the right approach. I was "dating" someone who turned out to be a very unhealthy person for me to be with. We did not go out too much, and spoke on the phone once per week at best. But sensing that something was off, I eventually learned that he may be gay, was dating two handful of other women platonically, as he says, was blowing hot and cold, and lashed out at me at times. We never had sex. I got the sense that he was a narcissist, and then I burned all bridges quietly, and backed off. He kept me at arms length all the time, unless he wanted to hang out, then he was very nice. It was all on his terms. Then I met someone else, from another site, and he seemed nice enough. We went out, had dinner for our first meet, and he suggested for me to call him when I wanted to go do something. After about two days, I got an e-mail with plans for the next weekend, and he also called me, and asked me to have dinner with him at his house that day. I declined, as I just ate, and needed to get some stuff done. He seemed a bit pertubed. The next day, I asked if he wanted to go out to dinner, and we wound up cooking and eating at his place (he was the perfect gentleman, and I thought we had a good time). Long story short, I did call him after that get-together, asking him if he wanted to hang out with some of my friends towards the weekend, and I think he may be getting cold feet, perhaps he thinks I am desperate? I'm really not, but I'm beginning to like him, and though this was fine, since he kept saying for me to call him if I wanted to do stuff. I am backing off from this one, and leave the ball in his court, actually not expecting to hear from him at all anymore. Compared to the guy above, this one felt so much easier to date, and it was much more relaxed. Then again, still a no-go. Objectively speaking, it may have been too much too soon, but given that he brought up the idea to go to his house, I figured it was okay. I would have been fine with the plans for the next weekend. The million-dollar question is...without resorting to those silly dating games... what the heck IS the right approach? Playing hard to get in your 50s?? I am so new to dating, and it is confusing me to no end. Any words of wisdom from the maturer folks on this forum? Thank you!
KathyM Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 You could have been coming on too strong. Men generally like to be the pursuer, at least at first. Next time, wait for him to call you, or if he says to call him if you want to do something, turn it around and tell him, "O.K., or if you feel like getting together, call me." And then wait for his call. You probably came across as too anxious and scared him off.
FitChick Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I hate that silly excuse people use about scaring someone off. If they are that scared of you, why would you want them? Anyone, male or female, who is attracted, won't be "scared off." I agree to let the man pursue and you should be receptive and appreciative if you are interested. 2
KathyM Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 Men easily get scared off if a woman comes on too strong, because they feel like she expects too much too soon. They tend to want to be the pursuer. If a woman comes on too strong too early on, they either think she's the controlling type that's going to call the shots in the relationship, or she's going to expect too serious of a relationship too early on before he's ready for that, or that she's desparate or too needy or too smothering.
TXGuy Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I always see that women are the primary advisors suggesting other women should not pursue men. That women should sit back and wait for the man to do all the work. It is rarely men that offer that advice (with the exception of the occasional pedistalizer). I am starting to suspect women tell each other this so they can justify being the lazy/privileged ones in relationships. They convince themselves that putting forth no effort and taking zero risk of rejection is somehow their 'burden to bear', when really it is just an excuse to be passive and not have to do any work. Or not. just the musing of a guy on his third beer. 1
Author DemetersHarvest Posted January 31, 2014 Author Posted January 31, 2014 I don't get why men put the ball in our court, and then feel scared when we pick it up. But I guess I will have to just accept that as a matter of fact. I'm actually neither controlling, desperate, or anxious. I just had a good time and took him at face value. Isn't that what guys expect, to be taken at face value? Well, lesson learned, but I could kick myself. He was a nice one!! Perhaps that's why I got a bit carried away.
Author DemetersHarvest Posted January 31, 2014 Author Posted January 31, 2014 I always see that women are the primary advisors suggesting other women should not pursue men. That women should sit back and wait for the man to do all the work. It is rarely men that offer that advice (with the exception of the occasional pedistalizer). I am starting to suspect women tell each other this so they can justify being the lazy/privileged ones in relationships. They convince themselves that putting forth no effort and taking zero risk of rejection is somehow their 'burden to bear', when really it is just an excuse to be passive and not have to do any work. Or not. just the musing of a guy on his third beer. Wait a minute!! I took charge, and see where it ended!!
MixedUpChick Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 I always see that women are the primary advisors suggesting other women should not pursue men. That women should sit back and wait for the man to do all the work. It is rarely men that offer that advice (with the exception of the occasional pedistalizer). I am starting to suspect women tell each other this so they can justify being the lazy/privileged ones in relationships. They convince themselves that putting forth no effort and taking zero risk of rejection is somehow their 'burden to bear', when really it is just an excuse to be passive and not have to do any work. Or not. just the musing of a guy on his third beer. I think part of it is, that we like to be pursued (it may be old-fashioned but some of us are old-fashioned). Another part is that sometimes when we put forth "some effort", some men get scared off by that. It's much easier for us to know if the guy really is interested if we just let him pursue us at his pace. Once a man shows some interest & initiative toward me, if I'm also interested - I'm happy to do some work too, but I initially tread lightly so he can set the pace that he's comfortable with. I don't date often enough to be willing to risk scaring off the few dates I have
Author DemetersHarvest Posted January 31, 2014 Author Posted January 31, 2014 Once a man shows some interest & initiative toward me, if I'm also interested - I'm happy to do some work too, but I initially tread lightly so he can set the pace that he's comfortable with. I don't date often enough to be willing to risk scaring off the few dates I have If someone asks me to call if I want to do something, that's exactly what I will do, at MY pace. He's given me the carte blanche to proceed at my own leisure. The underlying assumption therein, for me, is that he would be fine in whatever timing I have, or else he would tell me otherwise. But next time, I'll tread lighter, too. My approach obviously does not work, no matter how much some men complain that we don't take enough initiative and avert risk of rejection. Which, btw. is not as easy as it seems to y'all, either, because I don't like sitting on my hands when I like someone and would like to get to know them better.
SYLLPalmer Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 If someone asks me to call if I want to do something, that's exactly what I will do, at MY pace. He's given me the carte blanche to proceed at my own leisure. The underlying assumption therein, for me, is that he would be fine in whatever timing I have, or else he would tell me otherwise. But next time, I'll tread lighter, too. My approach obviously does not work, no matter how much some men complain that we don't take enough initiative and avert risk of rejection. Which, btw. is not as easy as it seems to y'all, either, because I don't like sitting on my hands when I like someone and would like to get to know them better. FYI I am 42. If I have a mans number in my cell phone it is because he texted me and I wanted to respond. Early on it serves as just an incoming call/text identifier. Even when the relationship progresses I rarely pull them from the list of contacts and press send. Once we let our hair down I do what I want and he is by then as much my partner in crime and best friend as he is my lover so it makes no difference. This is rare. If a man said to me at the end of a date "call me when you want to do something" then I would respond "and you as well kind sir." I would get out of the car and I wouldn't look back no matter what I thought of him. Then I would move on. If he called and I had time and interest I would keep the date. 1
TXGuy Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 If someone asks me to call if I want to do something, that's exactly what I will do, at MY pace. He's given me the carte blanche to proceed at my own leisure. The underlying assumption therein, for me, is that he would be fine in whatever timing I have, or else he would tell me otherwise. Right. So when women expect men to lead, it is our call and we have carte blanche to proceed at our ow leisure. She will be fine with whatever timing we have. lol. No. A quarter of the posts on here are women taking issue with the pace men set. Oftentimes saying so in an uncomplementary fashion. That's fine. Men are used to being criticized for whatever actios they choose. But women don't have the same experience with negative feedback and are generally more put off by it. I'm not knocking you. In fact I applaud you for periodically pulling your weight in a relationship and not being lazy and expecting the man to do all the work. I'm just pointing out you are just getting the tiniest taste of what men deal with constantly.
Author DemetersHarvest Posted January 31, 2014 Author Posted January 31, 2014 Lesson learned here, as much as it bothers me to see the last one go. Can't blame him. Even though, the first contact after the first meeting did come from him, not me. I will try SYLLPalmer's approach the next time. It just felt like he was a bit disappointed, or thought I was not interested once I turned him down to go to his house initially. So I reached out to him the next day with the suggestion for dinner, which he accepted. And since he left it also sort of up to me what we could do on the weekend, I called him the day after that to make a suggestion (thinking giving him a heads up early on, so he can plan). I will never take that "It's up to you" bait again!!! Foot....mouth....insert...!! So, TXGuy, it seems like some men want it both ways. I have met very few who can handle a woman who takes initiative. They attach too many negative assumptions to this woman's actions and intentions, and stereotype her if you will. I never fit into any of those boxes, as I am very literal, direct, say what I mean, and mean what I say, in a nice way.
Poppygoodwill Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 The thing is, both people have to be willing to show interest and move the ball further down the field. I'm a 45y old and in all areas of my life I take initiative, and that includes dating. If I want to climb a mountain, I do. If I want to get to know someone, I ask him out. I keep a leisurely pace about it, and look for signals about whether or not it's reciprocated, but be damned if I'm going to sit like a flower waiting for someone to pluck me. The thing is, I'm not that sort of person, so it's sending a wrong signal from the very start. It would be a disaster for me to end up with a man who wants a woman who sits prettily and lets him make all the big moves. I'm not that girl. Why hide it? Also I want a man who is confident enough and equality minded enough that he appreciates a woman who takes decisions and initiative. Who wouldn't? So bottom line: you have to be who you are. If he says, call me sometime! I think he's giving you the option to bow out gracefully, rather than get himself hurt by pursuing you when you're not interested. I didn't understand from your posts why you think he's losing interest after you invited him out to meet your friends? In any event, think of it like a see-saw; both parties have to push and both have to ride at different times. Maybe now it's your turn to ride and his to push. 2
SYLLPalmer Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 The thing is, both people have to be willing to show interest and move the ball further down the field. I'm a 45y old and in all areas of my life I take initiative, and that includes dating. If I want to climb a mountain, I do. If I want to get to know someone, I ask him out. I keep a leisurely pace about it, and look for signals about whether or not it's reciprocated, but be damned if I'm going to sit like a flower waiting for someone to pluck me. The thing is, I'm not that sort of person, so it's sending a wrong signal from the very start. It would be a disaster for me to end up with a man who wants a woman who sits prettily and lets him make all the big moves. I'm not that girl. Why hide it? Also I want a man who is confident enough and equality minded enough that he appreciates a woman who takes decisions and initiative. Who wouldn't? So bottom line: you have to be who you are. If he says, call me sometime! I think he's giving you the option to bow out gracefully, rather than get himself hurt by pursuing you when you're not interested. I didn't understand from your posts why you think he's losing interest after you invited him out to meet your friends? In any event, think of it like a see-saw; both parties have to push and both have to ride at different times. Maybe now it's your turn to ride and his to push. This is the approach ONLY to phone calls. I like the "oneish" hour for coffee and tea meetings and I don't care for galley style coffee houses with a barrister that screams out names. Prefer quite and quaint independently owned establishments too. We can share an entree but I don't like onions or bell pepper so heads up on that. I don't eat certain meats that go above and beyond the call of cruelty duty. (please no debate vegans ) These are just a few of my nuances but the key is that he gets the out. Meaning I put out there what I like and it is up to him to ultimately choose IF this topic is near and dear to him. Lastly by all means I will venture to the contrary in instances where I may have something to learn or simply to yield and give him pleasure (i.e. see a Broadway show if he wants). The only thing not calling does is makes a man get his arse in gear. Alot of times they don't even know what they want. Deprivation in initiation of contact works for me. They know damn well if I like them. I am very flirtatious by nature when I have a proclivity. This is part of my mating dance I suppose (though at 42 I will allow no buns to bake).
Frank2thepoint Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 You could have been coming on too strong. Men generally like to be the pursuer, at least at first. Next time, wait for him to call you, or if he says to call him if you want to do something, turn it around and tell him, "O.K., or if you feel like getting together, call me." And then wait for his call. You probably came across as too anxious and scared him off. I'm laughing at this because you can reverse this where the man does the pursuing and he is labeled as too aggressive or needy. You just can't win with some people. 1
TXGuy Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) So, TXGuy, it seems like some men want it both ways. I have met very few who can handle a woman who takes initiative. They attach too many negative assumptions to this woman's actions and intentions, and stereotype her if you will. I never fit into any of those boxes, as I am very literal, direct, say what I mean, and mean what I say, in a nice way. I would say that different men want it different ways. The trouble is you don't always know which guys want it which way. According to most women, some men 'get scared' (or don't like) and disappear when a woman takes the initiative. If that is the case (I question whether this is true), you might lose a guy by taking the initiative. Other guys (like me) will lose interest and go away if a woman does not start taking some initiative and do some of the work in the relationship. In those cases, you might lose the guy if you don't take the initiative. Yet another scenario (that I don't think women generally acknowledge enough) is that the guy decides it wasn't a match. In this case, whether you take the initiative or not, it doesn't work out. But, this is where I think some women get the idea that taking the initiative is 'bad'. They go out on a limb to take the initiative, but then get rejected. That hurts. That hurts far more than not taking the initiative and having the budding relationship fade out. My theory is women generally prefer to take the passive role in order to spare their egos (among other things). It is a rational strategy. Though, it is less than clear whether it is the optimal strategy. ETA: Yet another possibility is that the guy would like the woman to take the initiative. She does, but he does not like the way she does so. That boils down to incompatible personalities. Before you argue that he shouldn't complain about the way in which she takes the initiative, I disagree. If he doesn't like it, he can leave. Sometimes he does. Edited January 31, 2014 by TXGuy Added two paragraphs at bottom. 1
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 1, 2014 Author Posted February 1, 2014 So bottom line: you have to be who you are. If he says, call me sometime! I think he's giving you the option to bow out gracefully, rather than get himself hurt by pursuing you when you're not interested. Yes, that was thoughtful, yet smart. It could go either way, though. For a second, I caught myself thinking that he would be more forthcoming if he caught a "spark". And he did make first contact after the initial meet. I didn't understand from your posts why you think he's losing interest after you invited him out to meet your friends? In any event, think of it like a see-saw; both parties have to push and both have to ride at different times. Maybe now it's your turn to ride and his to push. I was afraid I was contacting him too much, too soon, and coming on to strong. I'm sure I did. He kind of let me know, in a nice way. I told him that he has my number if he wants to do something. I don't expect to hear from him anymore. These initial contacts are so delicate, a slip-up could potentially ruin everything early on. I learned my lesson.
Tayken Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 I always see that women are the primary advisors suggesting other women should not pursue men. That women should sit back and wait for the man to do all the work. It is rarely men that offer that advice (with the exception of the occasional pedistalizer). I am starting to suspect women tell each other this so they can justify being the lazy/privileged ones in relationships. They convince themselves that putting forth no effort and taking zero risk of rejection is somehow their 'burden to bear', when really it is just an excuse to be passive and not have to do any work. Or not. just the musing of a guy on his third beer. Wow....I just joined the forum, and this is the first thread I found myself reading for some reason, but you nailed it with the comments in BOLD. I mean seriously....I thought we were in the age of equalization now where both genders are entitled to the same kind of treatment? At least that is what am lead to believe Some women might be able to get away with waiting for a guy to do all the moves....but this is not going to apply to every woman out there, and to quote a teenage female singer....."if you want it, come and get it". I can't believe I just quoted Selena Gomez...shame on me in my 40s My theory is women generally prefer to take the passive role in order to spare their egos (among other things). It is a rational strategy. Though, it is less than clear whether it is the optimal strategy.I am leaning on the latter here It would be a disaster for me to end up with a man who wants a woman who sits prettily and lets him make all the big moves. I'm not that girl. Why hide it? Also I want a man who is confident enough and equality minded enough that he appreciates a woman who takes decisions and initiative. Who wouldn't? Well then...where have you been all my life? Like Madonna said..."who's that girl"? A man that is not confident especially when it comes to dating, needs a frontal lobotomy. Personally, I am a planner (due to the nature of my job), but know when it's right to delegate...... If a woman comes on too strong too early on, they either think she's the controlling type that's going to call the shots in the relationship, or she's going to expect too serious of a relationship too early on before he's ready for that, or that she's desparate or too needy or too smothering. A few comments on this.... 1. nobody likes a control freak...check 2. there is a fine line between coming on strong and just going for what you want 3. Am not sure about you came to the "desparate" conclusion?????
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Wow....I just joined the forum, and this is the first thread I found myself reading for some reason, but you nailed it with the comments in BOLD. I mean seriously....I thought we were in the age of equalization now where both genders are entitled to the same kind of treatment? At least that is what am lead to believe Some women might be able to get away with waiting for a guy to do all the moves....but this is not going to apply to every woman out there, and to quote a teenage female singer....."if you want it, come and get it". I can't believe I just quoted Selena Gomez...shame on me in my 40s I am leaning on the latter here Well then...where have you been all my life? Like Madonna said..."who's that girl"? A man that is not confident especially when it comes to dating, needs a frontal lobotomy. Personally, I am a planner (due to the nature of my job), but know when it's right to delegate...... A few comments on this.... 1. nobody likes a control freak...check 2. there is a fine line between coming on strong and just going for what you want 3. Am not sure about you came to the "desparate" conclusion????? I am a woman, and have, for the most part, taken initiative early on. It gets me nothing but rejection, or men who cannot make up their minds. My recent experience left me very confused. I contacted him first, let him make the decision to meet, met him, hugged him goodbye. He contacted me two days later, to get together for the next weekend, then called to get together the same day, which I needed to decline. The next day, I wanted to make up for it, and we did. Then follow up on those weekend plans he put out. Then he backed away. Can you blame me for sitting on my hands now? I'm not desperate, but I like him, and wanted to get to know him better, which translates into having contact several times a week, even if it's just a quick call, or e-mail. The next time I meet someone I like enough to want to get to know him better, you bet I will lay low. I blew this one, and can't stop kicking myself over it. He was really a good one!
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 The other thing I wanted to mention is that in real life, the people I meet get to know me over time, and generally really like me. This process is lost with OLD. I am generally very comfortable with myself, but I think that the catalog mentality prevalent with OLD allows people to always aim for one-up, instead of spending some time on one person, explore, and develop some depth before deciding they are or are not for them. I was married for 25 years. Dating then was different. Never used personal ads. I'm sure I'm making all the mistakes in the book. If the shoe had been on the other foot with that particular guy, I would have communicated my concern, nicely, and see if we could have settled into some mutually comfortable pace. People in OLD have become disposable figures. I think I'm going to back away from those sites.
SYLLPalmer Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 The other thing I wanted to mention is that in real life, the people I meet get to know me over time, and generally really like me. This process is lost with OLD. I am generally very comfortable with myself, but I think that the catalog mentality prevalent with OLD allows people to always aim for one-up, instead of spending some time on one person, explore, and develop some depth before deciding they are or are not for them. I was married for 25 years. Dating then was different. Never used personal ads. I'm sure I'm making all the mistakes in the book. If the shoe had been on the other foot with that particular guy, I would have communicated my concern, nicely, and see if we could have settled into some mutually comfortable pace. People in OLD have become disposable figures. I think I'm going to back away from those sites. I agree with you here and it sucks on the receiving end especially if you have invested. I am not giving up yet but fine tuning and pain are required. I hope to get ROI. The pain would be totally worth it.
Tayken Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 I contacted him first, let him make the decision to meet, met him, hugged him goodbye. He contacted me two days later, to get together for the next weekend, then called to get together the same day, which I needed to decline. The next day, I wanted to make up for it, and we did. Don't take this the wrong way, but from you've described to the forum, it will seem there wasn't an initial mutual attraction....he probably was trying to be polite, as opposed to just flat out saying....thanks, but no thanks? Yes I know it's wrong but some people just aren't that blunt I'm not desperate, but I like him, and wanted to get to know him better, which translates into having contact several times a week, even if it's just a quick call, or e-mail. Now Now.....this is where one has to be careful, some people might take that "several times per week" initially to mean too much. I on the other hand hear what you are saying, and believe that even married couples need to take a moment from their daily hustle to send each other quickies...."how is your day going", "just thinking of you...xoxox"
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Don't take this the wrong way, but from you've described to the forum, it will seem there wasn't an initial mutual attraction....he probably was trying to be polite, as opposed to just flat out saying....thanks, but no thanks? Yes I know it's wrong but some people just aren't that blunt I'm not sure I follow. He checked out my profile, I said hello. We e-mailed, then he gave me his phone number, and suggested a date. After that, he wanted to see me again, and invited me to his house. I'm not sure if that's a sign of not being attracted. I did not take it this way. Even that first dinner, things seemed to be going fine. Am I so dense that I am missing the forest for the trees? The polite thing would have been to not contact me again. He put the ball in my court to contact him after the first date, then took it back and contacted me first instead. I did take that as a sign of interest.
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 I agree with you here and it sucks on the receiving end especially if you have invested. I am not giving up yet but fine tuning and pain are required. I hope to get ROI. The pain would be totally worth it. Although I have not invested much, seeing that we only met twice, there are cases where you think you met a really good one, and in those cases, rejection sucks rocks. You're ahead of me, I am about to give up the OLD venue. Haven't yet met a guy who is truly as tall as he lists himself, "average" body size would fall into at least stocky, and as far as interests/activities go, if you take them up on some, they won't join you. I am larger, but physically very active, and expect my partners in crime to keep up with me, and so far, they never did. It feels like I bump into some sort of "middle age" barrier, where everything slows down, and I'm nowhere near that.
Author DemetersHarvest Posted February 2, 2014 Author Posted February 2, 2014 Now Now.....this is where one has to be careful, some people might take that "several times per week" initially to mean too much. Maybe he did, too. Or he got sucked into the OLD catalog mentality as well. It's like a candy store, especially when you are new to this.
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