I cheated (on my fiance; we are both men)

[Lowlyguy]

So, I've messed up in a horrendous way.

 

The background is that my fiance and I (both dudes) moved across the country about a year ago. At that time I became unwell with depression and panic attacks, and I think my fiance became depressed too, but he never went to see a doctor.

 

We were under a lot of stress, new jobs, being ill, financial pressures etc. We were isolated as we don't have any friends here.

 

 

I did something *really* stupid by joining a hook up website. I met a handful of guys over a 5 or 6 week period and would get naked, "heavy petting" etc. There was never any oral or penetration and i specifically never did anything to put my fiance at risk of STDs.

 

I have no idea why I did this. No idea why I cheated. What a f*cking stupid thing to do.

 

For the last few weeks I've been doing a lot of reading, the arguments of telling Vs not telling and I can honestly say I am so confused.

 

There is no excuse for my bahviour and I am so, so, so ashamed. I feel guilty every single day.

 

 

Im struggling to figure out a way forward. I completely understand that argument of honestly telling your partner, but also that one reason id be doing that is to make my own guilt feel better. I don't want the relationship to end, I love my fiance and I would take a bullet for him. That hasn't changed, don't think it ever will.

 

Does anyone have any advice from either side of the cheating argument that might help me clarify what to do?

 

Thank you, apologetically in advance,

[salparadise]

The majority on this forum will say you must confess. I don't believe that to be a certainty. There are valid arguments on either side, and many circumstantial things to consider. I think you should get into therapy and arrive at your own decision. It's not going to be easy. I don't think you should decide anything based on what people tell you to do on an internet forum.

[Mr. Lucky]

I feel guilty every single day.

 

I have no idea why I did this. No idea why I cheated.

 

Both of the above are going to prevent you from being a fully engaged partner and complete participant in the relationship. Is that how you want to start off your marriage?

 

You don't fix lies and deception by continuing to be untruthful. While it may not be the answer you want to hear, the correct choice not that hard to determine...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

So, I've messed up in a horrendous way.

 

I did something *really* stupid by joining a hook up website. I met a handful of guys over a 5 or 6 week period and would get naked, "heavy petting" etc. There was never any oral or penetration and i specifically never did anything to put my fiance at risk of STDs.

 

I have no idea why I did this. No idea why I cheated. What a f*cking stupid thing to do.

 

There is no excuse for my bahviour and I am so, so, so ashamed. I feel guilty every single day.

 

The fact that you stopped yourself, you did not put your partner's health at risk, and you show remorse would mean that this may not be an automatic deal breaker for me...

 

The fact that you have no idea why you made such a poor decision (and thus, you are risk of doing it again), and you were not honest about what happened, that most definitely would be an automatic deal breaker for me... Sorry.

[Lowlyguy]

Thank you all for your honesty.

 

I have arranged a therapist appointment for the Friday after Christmas, I'm not sure what to do.

[Veronica73]

Personally, if it was me, I’d want to know.

 

And if I ever found out about it AFTER we got married, it would be much, much worse and harder to bear.

 

But that’s just me. Everybody is different. But in my opinion, dishonesty is not a good base to build a marriage on.

[Lowlyguy]

The fact that you stopped yourself, you did not put your partner's health at risk, and you show remorse would mean that this may not be an automatic deal breaker for me...

 

The fact that you have no idea why you made such a poor decision (and thus, you are risk of doing it again), and you were not honest about what happened, that most definitely would be an automatic deal breaker for me... Sorry.

Can people not develop insight after the event? Can people not realise how stupid they were? Can people not have been ill and on meds and not thinking clearly (these are not excuses, but j actually don't think I'm a terrible person, I don't even think I'm a bad partner, but I am a person who did a (very) bad thing.

[BaileyB]

Can people not develop insight after the event? Can people not realise how stupid they were? Can people not have been ill and on meds and not thinking clearly (these are not excuses, but j actually don't think I'm a terrible person, I don't even think I'm a bad partner, but I am a person who did a (very) bad thing.

 

I don’t think you are a bad person. And I don’t know that you are a good or bad partner.

 

I know that you made a mistake that you now regret. I also know that you have not been honest. And, I know that you don’t know why you did it... and let’s be fair, creating a profile on a hookup site and meeting/getting naked/heavy petting SEVERAL men is not a very typical or minor mistake. It’s not a drunken kiss, it’s a purposeful act to create a profile, plan, and meet up with other men...

 

Perhaps you have learned from this experience and you will never do it again. Or perhaps, the next time life gets stressful you will do it again and take it further... I could never know (if I was your partner). These are the things to discuss in therapy - find out why you chose this particular coping strategy (because it’s destructive and not conducive to a healthy, long term relationship) and make amends with your partner. Then, and only then, will you be able to move forward in any relationship with confidence...

[pepperbird]

if you look way deep down inside yourself to figure out why you did this, what have you found?

 

 

Is it possible you're a bit scared of the lifetime commitment you're going to make?

 

I'm in the "tell" camp too. It will give you and your husband a chance to stat your marriage off on the right foot with a clean slate. you're going to be with this guy for the rest of your life. Do you want this hanging over your marriage?

[FMW]

You really do need to get absolutely clear on why you did it, so it's good you are going to see a therapist. As others have said, without knowing why you are very much at risk for it happening again.

 

As for telling? If I were you I don't know that I could keep that secret and the related guilt would probably show up as an inability to feel close with my partner. If I were your partner I would definitely want to know. Given the facts, it's very possible it won't be a deal breaker for him. But as Bailey noted, your not having any clue WHY you did it would be a big problem for me. So again, you very much need to figure that out.

[preraph]

I say either change it and let it never happen again or end the relationship and realize you're not ready for a committed relationship. Look, old habits, you know. There's no shame in not wanting to settle down and be a husband, but it's not right to pretend to be when you're not. Figure it out.

[Ronni_W]

There was never any oral or penetration and i specifically never did anything to put my fiance at risk of STDs.

 

I have no idea why I did this.

So, if I read it accurately, your cheating was specifically related to physical interactions with other people (not emotional bonding or fully satisfying sex).

 

If that is the case, then you have the self-obligation and the responsibility to your relationship to figure out why you did it..."I have no idea" is simply not good enough,

and neither is state of psychology or being (or not being) on meds.

 

I would offer to figure out why you did it before you take it to your partner. You can work on this privately before you see the therapist after the Holidays.

What is it that you thought you might receive, or that, with hindsight, you did receive, from these liasons? Start there, and work really hard to uncover it. (I'd suggest using a journal to assist.)

 

Can people not develop insight after the event? Can people not realise how stupid they were?

Yes, of course. In fact, many of our experiences are specifically to afford us the opportunity to learn from them.

(Do not take on other people's distorted or false views that give rise to their negative judgments; and, do not let those judgments cloud your own vision or path.)

 

Wishing you the best.

[Lowlyguy]

Thank you all for the suggestions, particularly the one about the journal.

 

I have been thinking since my first post about why this happened. To be clear, I am not trying to blame my meds or psychological state at the time or use them to abdicate responsibility- but actually I think my state of mind played a part in it. There was no emotional involvement at all, there was not even any small talk afterwards.

 

Looking back on the time when it happened my partner and I hadn't been physically intimate in a few months. We were both starting new jobs, were away from our friends and family.

 

My psychological state at the time wasn't great and I actually think that (for a little while) meeting people and being anxious about it matched with how my psychological state was in the first place (I'm looking forward to discussing this with my therapist).

 

I obviously didn't communicate well with my partner that I missed having sex. Because that was a factor. Not an excuse at all.

 

As to the other comments, one of the reasons I'm so distressed is because I am ready to be a husband. I am ready to settle down and plan out a joint life together, and I'm furious at myself for doing something so damaging and so unkind. I'm angry at myself for doing this to my partner.

 

I really appreciate all your advice, and I'd appreciate if you have any further thoughts to post them

 

Thank you again

[Ronni_W]

Looking back on the time when it happened my partner and I hadn't been physically intimate in a few months. We were both starting new jobs, were away from our friends and family.

So, I think...that is your starting point to help you understand your out-of-character behaviour; to explain it to yourself even more so than to your partner or your therapist.

 

Not to put words into your mouth, but it sounds like you may have been experiencing uncertainty/anxiety about all those life changes that happened all at once, but did not, at that time,

have the personal skills (including courage?) to clearly and honestly communicate your concerns and feelings to your partner.

 

, one of the reasons I'm so distressed is because I am ready to be a husband. I am ready to settle down and plan out a joint life together,

and I'm furious at myself for doing something so damaging and so unkind. I'm angry at myself for doing this to my partner.

So...that's not gonna work. . You will need to stop feeling furious at yourself, in favour of feeling silly that you had not yet acquired better relationship skills.

 

You will also need to be able to congratulate, appreciate and admire yourself for how well you've learned this lesson.

 

Certainly you can see that it makes you even more of a 'catch' now; and more able to settle down and plan out a joint life together...

...now including how you're going to handle challenges and anxiety in the future, in constructive instead of destructive (self-defeating) ways.

 

Wishing you the very best.

[Lowlyguy]

Thank you so much for your reply. You are correct about the anxiety, and that was one of the reasons I started the meds at the time. I'm still utterly ashamed of what I've done. I'm really struggling with some arguments that I've read online about disclosing to my partner. It appears that some experts think it's something to carry to the grave, avoiding hurting your partner if it's something never to be repeated. Bustle has an article about this and psychology today has an article about utilitarianism in this context. Does anyone have any advice?

[Lowlyguy]

I just thought I should post a little update.

 

I've been journaling really really throughly over the pats few days and unfortunately my first therapy appointment had to be rearranged so it's now on Thursday.

 

Things I've been thinking:

 

1. I was very stressed about what was happening in the rest of our lives, like moving house, moving jobs, being away from family etc. It's hard moving across the country. My fiance was kept very busy with his employer and to be quite honest we lost slot of intimacy over a few months as he was working late and I was trying to find us somewhere to live etc. We had some stress related sexual difficulties and I am not proud to say I found that extremely frustrating and for a period did think he had lost interest in me (when he was actually just really stressed).

 

2. I never enjoyed my time with the guys I met. Not once. The sexual activity was actually not enjoyable but it was nice to be getting some attention. (This is by no means an excuse or an attempt to shift blame, this is my fault)

 

3. After slot of soul searching I have zero desire to meet these men again, or anyone else for that matter, for sex or romance. Hard to admit but I probably used them, there was no prospect of them developing a relationship or friendship with me, and if they were looking for that I deprived them of that opportunity.

 

4. I love my fiance. I began thinking about what would happen if the roles were reversed. I'd be upset, but I'd still love him. This is the man who I am so lucky to have met and I am so stupid to have jeapordised our relationship.

 

5. I hate myself. Or rather I don't love myself. If I felt secure enough in myself I wouldn't have thought he had lost interest during a sexual dry spell and I wouldn't have reached out.

 

6. Our communication recently has been terrible. Again, if I had been able to articulate how I was feeling to him this would never have happened. Again, this is my fault.

 

7. I'm dismayed that the general concensus on this forum is that making a bad decision somehow invalidates our relationships. Actually, I think realising that we've done something bad and trying to fix it or prevent it from ever happening again is positive, and something I'm going to give myself some credit for.

 

I'd appreciate any comments... And thank you for reading

[lana-banana]

It could very well be that your fiance will choose to forgive your cheating. The problem is you aren't giving him that choice. You know the saying "the coverup is worse than the crime"? That applies to relationships, too; lying about anything is almost always much worse than the deed itself. It means instead of coming clean immediately and making things right, you knowingly concealed it---effectively perpetuating the crime. You are continuing that wrongdoing every day you don't come clean to your fiance about it.

 

We all justify decisions to ourselves. The world isn't always black and white. But when someone else's feelings are involved, especially the person you love the most, it's pretty indefensible to keep them in the dark for your own selfish ends.

[JuneL]

I think your cheating was due to your extremely poor coping skills, like how some people turned to alcohol and drug during times of intense stress.

 

I encourage you to talk to your fiance and work through things together. I am saying this as someone who doesn’t think one should always confesses her past infidelity.

[Lowlyguy]

JuneL could I ask why you think I should do that in this case, if not all others?

[Lowlyguy]

It could very well be that your fiance will choose to forgive your cheating. The problem is you aren't giving him that choice. You know the saying "the coverup is worse than the crime"? That applies to relationships, too; lying about anything is almost always much worse than the deed itself. It means instead of coming clean immediately and making things right, you knowingly concealed it---effectively perpetuating the crime. You are continuing that wrongdoing every day you don't come clean to your fiance about it.

 

We all justify decisions to ourselves. The world isn't always black and white. But when someone else's feelings are involved, especially the person you love the most, it's pretty indefensible to keep them in the dark for your own selfish ends.

 

There is a legitimate ethical argument precisely because someone else's feelings are involved that would suggest it can on occasion be the morally and ethically correct thing to do to spare your partner the heartbreak in this situation, reflecting and learning from the experience to avoid any potential further harm.

 

These situations are not black and white. To suggest that one causes more harm by not causing harm is an argument that i find hard to ethically justify.

 

To be clear, I'm not arguing at all and I thank you for your response, I'm just expressing where I am at in my pre therapy thoughts at present.

[lana-banana]

What makes the argument legitimate? The fact that it exists?

 

Unless your fiance has said "I'd rather never know if you cheated on me", you are making enormous assumptions and denying him the fundamental agency to decide whether he wants to continue your relationship.

 

Frankly, the fact that you have to find independent arguments on random websites to justify your behavior (and not relying on your own moral compass) suggests you believe you're doing the wrong thing but persisting anyway.

[Lowlyguy]

What makes the argument legitimate? The fact that it exists?

 

Unless your fiance has said "I'd rather never know if you cheated on me", you are making enormous assumptions and denying him the fundamental agency to decide whether he wants to continue your relationship.

 

Frankly, the fact that you have to find independent arguments on random websites to justify your behavior (and not relying on your own moral compass) suggests you believe you're doing the wrong thing but persisting anyway.

 

The system of ethics that defines this is called utilitarianism, it's an interesting philosophy. Equally several books I've read in the past few weeks written by psychologists and therapists also discuss this principal.

 

Secondly, seeking others views to aid our own reflection is an important part of learning. I thank you for your opinion. I'm not suggesting I've arrived at my conclusion but this is where I've gotten to on the road and I continue to learn and consider what I've done and how to move forward. I will continue to think about it, and envy you that you have such clear views. Thank you.

[lana-banana]

The system of ethics that defines this is called utilitarianism, it's an interesting philosophy. Equally several books I've read in the past few weeks written by psychologists and therapists also discuss this principal.

 

Secondly, seeking others views to aid our own reflection is an important part of learning. I thank you for your opinion. I'm not suggesting I've arrived at my conclusion but this is where I've gotten to on the road and I continue to learn and consider what I've done and how to move forward. I will continue to think about it, and envy you that you have such clear views. Thank you.

 

Dude, I got my degree in Western classics and philosophy. I am very aware of and familiar with utilitarianism. Again, the existence of a thing does not make it a valid or meaningful way to live. Objectivism is also technically a "philosophy", but no serious person considers it a real basis for living because its short and long-term implications are antithetical to good governance and social harmony. Utilitariniasm has similar problems. A society where everyone believes the ends justifies the means (or a similar formulation of self-interest above all) is a community of sociopaths.

 

"I envy you that you have such clear views" comes off as a tad condescending, but OK. You are not asking a huge question about truth and consequences. You are suggesting it's okay to lie to your fiance about something extremely serious which could potentially end your relationship because it's not in your self-interest to do so. The immediate objection is why your self-interest comes before your fiance's, who is justifiably entitled to know the truth about the person he's marrying. I don't see how you resolve this without deciding that ultimately your feelings and your security are more important than his.

 

I don't mean to be hard on you, but it just comes off as seeking justification for doing something you know is wrong. If you feel fine with your conduct, and would be content being married to someone who would do the same to you, and think you can spend a lifetime carrying this secret without the guilt eating you alive (guilt being a whole other subject, morally speaking) then by all means continue. But I wouldn't expect everyone else to applaud your choices.

 

It's really not that complicated. If you truly believed he would understand and forgive you, you would have told him.

[Lowlyguy]

Dude, I got my degree in Western classics and philosophy. I am very aware of and familiar with utilitarianism. Again, the existence of a thing does not make it a valid or meaningful way to live. Objectivism is also technically a "philosophy", but no serious person considers it a real basis for living because its short and long-term implications are antithetical to good governance and social harmony. Utilitariniasm has similar problems. A society where everyone believes the ends justifies the means (or a similar formulation of self-interest above all) is a community of sociopaths.

 

"I envy you that you have such clear views" comes off as a tad condescending, but OK. You are not asking a huge question about truth and consequences. You are suggesting it's okay to lie to your fiance about something extremely serious which could potentially end your relationship because it's not in your self-interest to do so. The immediate objection is why your self-interest comes before your fiance's, who is justifiably entitled to know the truth about the person he's marrying. I don't see how you resolve this without deciding that ultimately your feelings and your security are more important than his.

 

I don't mean to be hard on you, but it just comes off as seeking justification for doing something you know is wrong. If you feel fine with your conduct, and would be content being married to someone who would do the same to you, and think you can spend a lifetime carrying this secret without the guilt eating you alive (guilt being a whole other subject, morally speaking) then by all means continue. But I wouldn't expect everyone else to applaud your choices.

 

It's really not that complicated. If you truly believed he would understand and forgive you, you would have told him.

 

I'm so sorry if that read as being condescending, that wasn't what I intended! It's hard to convey emotion in writing sometimes and I apologize unreservedly if I was condescending.

 

You have a significant head start with your educational background, I'm trying to catch up.

I'm not trying to justify anything, I'm trying to find the best way forward and developing my thoughts as fully as I can for my appointment on Thursday.

 

I really mean it when I thank you for your comments

Edited January 7, 2019 by Lowlyguy

[lana-banana]

As much fun as it can be to read and study this stuff (or not...ask me about Hegel sometime), this is more about moral character than philosophical education. This is about who you are as a person, what choices you make, and what sacrifices or consequences you're willing to accept in the process. Hopefully you and your therapist will also explore where this behavior came from, and how to prevent it from happening again. While reading might help you understand your decisions, it won't tell you who you are inside. Only you know that.

 

I sincerely wish you the best and am sorry for being harsh earlier. But the core of almost all world philosophy is self-examination. There is no substitute for taking an unflinching look at yourself. It's one of the hardest things you can do, but it's a lot easier if you make choices that you're proud of. Take care, try to get some sleep, and keep us posted.