real49 Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 I never thought I could feel this hurt from a romantic situation at my age, 49, but I haven't hurt like this since my 20's. I have never married, but have a string of relationships that have never gotten anywhere. I realized long ago that I seem to attract very needy women who cling to me than hurt me; I never seemed to get attracted to women who might be safe in a relationship. I'm old enough to recognize the pattern, but it didn't help me in this situation. I have (had) a very close friend that I have known since we were both 18. I had been romantically attracted to her at certain times during those early years but soon just accepted her as a good friend. We were actually roommates for awhile before she moved away. This woman had some rough experiences in her life with men and she has been through 3 marriages and has an 11 year old child. I don't want to go into details, but she and her daughter have had some bad experiences with some of these men she married. She kept in touch with me periodically over the years and we always enjoyed a close, warm friendship. She always told me I was like a rock to her.. a true friend. I also was aware that she had some problems in dealing with men and knowing that, I didn't think I could ever fall in love with her. My friend moved back into town to go into marriage number 4 with someone who had been in a relationship with her in their younger days... as soon as she had moved into town, bought a house for them to both live in, and gave the guy a large sum of money as a gift, he dumped her. That's when I came into the picture. She immediately turned to me for help and comfort. Being a friend, I was there for her and her daughter but I didn't think of a romance with the situation. I took my friend out one night to show her the town and help her establish herself in towm again. Surprisingly, she had sent her daughter to spend the night with her babysiter that I found for her. My friend is a extremely attractive woman who has had no trouble in attracting men. She also drinks a lot. It wasn't long into the night that she started coming onto me very aggresively - she actually split my lip at the bar coming on with a very aggressive kiss when I tried to remind her we were old friends. I kept telling her that we were friends and this could hurt that situation. Eventually, I gave in ( yeah, I know I'm at fault there - but she felt good to be with, she's attractive, and things that had been dormant for so long started to open up). She broke down emotionally after returning to her house and she started crying about all the horrible things that had happen to her and then made me promise to stay with her that night. Before going to bed, she started asking me if I wanted to be the step father of her daughter and asked whether I loved her. I of course replied that I couldn't answer such questions. We slept together that night and I was back at her house the next day. I tried to talk to her about what we had done but she just replied that she was very confused at the time. I continued to see her quite often and talk to her on the phone every day... usually talking about her and her pain. Her daughter became very attached to me and I started to feel like I was bonding with a family. We never had sex after that night because her daughter still sleeps with her but we would kiss quite often. We spent entire weekends as a threesome doing things. I fell in love with this person and felt it would be just a matter of time when if all clicked together. I should have known better. This woman also had another "old" friend that lived down the road from her, a psychologist, who is also single and the same age as us. He stayed away from us while I was seeing her but that changed. At some point, my friend just changed towards me one night while a group of us, including him, were all out together. She made some mean remarks to me that night and all of a sudden, the kissing goodnight stopped. I took her out the following weekend for what was hoped to be a romantic date since her daughter was finally off visiting the father. I finally sat down with her at 2:30 a.m. and asked her what was going on with us. That produced a tirade from her of how she couldn't be with anyone anymore, couldn't trust men, and she just needed my friendship. She stated emphatically that she did not want to loose me as a friend and would miss me terribly if I stopped seeing her - this was all said in an avalanche of tears from her. Knowing this woman's past, and feeling loyalty as a friend, I accepted her explanation and told her I would continue being her friend. Things cooled down a little then, but I continued to see her and talk to her on the phone - always letting her call me so I wouldn't appear to be pressuring her. I also noted that the psychologist had started hanging around more often. That brings me up to now. Over the holiday season, my friend had me over for Thanksgiving dinner, with the psychologist there. I was suspicious, but I believed her when she told me she was only capable of friendship at this point. I had a large Christmas party which I invited her and her daughter to - I didn't invite the psychologist since he never gave any indication of wanting to know me as a friend. My friend and her daughter spent all day helping me prepare for the party and at one point that afternoon, she told me that she had invited the psychologist and hoped that was all right. She had spent money and time on the party so I felt I couldn't say anything about it. They had actually come to the door together but she was quick in telling me that they had not come together and had drove separate cars. Christmas came and I was invited to Christmas dinner. I went and the psychologist was again there. I assumed he was a friend but then I noticed that this guy had a stocking hanging over the fireplace and I didn't. I recieved small presents from her and her daughter that had the feeling of a last minute present. I took it as that she was trying to cool things down with me and had started to lean on his friendship more since he lived close by to her. I left slightly hurt that night and feeling a bit more that something was going on. She continued to call me to just say "hi" and then invited me for a New Year's Eve party at her house. I tried to find something else to do as I felt that it would be too rough being around her on what has always seemed a "date night" holiday. All other plans feel through and she called since I hadn't showed up yet. She left a message that she hoped I was on my way, otherwise, she'de be mad. Thinking I could handle this, we are all just friends anyway, I went. It wasn't long after I got there that I noticed all the other people at this party were male friends of the psychologist. I'm prone to lonliness and depression at the holidays and I started to really bottom out when I realized there was more than just a friendship going on there. Another friend was at the party who occasionally does carpentry work for this woman. I pulled him off to the side and asked him if they were seeing each other. He replied, "apparently so" and that the psychologist had told him that he had been in love with her for the last 20 years. I felt crushed and said if that was the case, I had to get out of there. I went up to say goodbye in time to catch them in a embrace and kiss on the deck. She looked at me and immediatley looked guilty. I left and embarrassingly to say at my age, I cried all night when I got home. My friend told me that both she and psychologist asked what was wrong with me and when he told them I was reacting because they were together, she replied, "I thought it was all worked out - it will never work out" his response was, "Gee, I'm sorry he's hurt, I like him". I felt totally betrayed by someone I considered a close friend for all those years. I was taken aback by how hurt I was.. but it hurt so bad, that I didn't know if I could handle the pain. I sent her a simple email letting her know that I felt betrayed by her not letting me know that she was seeing this guy romantically and indicated that the friendship was over since she didn't seemed to be concerned about my feelings. She had during the Christmas party noted that another old girlfriend of mine had showed up without her husband since they had just separated. She strongly encouraged me to call this woman the next day which left me kind of baffled since she didn't know if this woman was good for me or not (I have no intentions of dating an old girlfriend who has just separated from a 20 year marriage). At the party, noticing that I looked distressed, she asked me if I was having problems with this old girlfriend which I found totally stupid and replied that I wasn't even seeing her and never said I would. I now realize that she was just hoping that I would get interested in someone else to make it easy on her. I'm devasted now and looking on the internet, all I see is people going through this in their early 20's. At my age, I'm suppose to have kids in college, a portly stomach, and a wife that I read the paper with every night before going to bed at 9. I'm not that way. I feel totally betrayed by this person and everyone tells me that I should not attempt to be friends with her ever again because she used me and never thought about what she was doing in relation to my feelings. The scary part is, they tell me she will eventually call me to "work things out" but to not even consider it. I don't want to believe that she really wasn't the friend I thought she was, but then again, how could she do all this and not be aware how I felt about her - I told her more than once while she cuddled in my arms. My dilemma is, can I trust someone like this as a friend after what happen on New Year's night? If she does call, how can I keep from falling into the "yes, I'll be your friend trap again. Sorry, I know I should know better at my age.. believe me, it's rough feeling like a hurt teenager again. Thanks if you took the time to read through this... but I really hurt and it's not easy feeling this way at my age.
SoleMate Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 My sympathy on this painful situation. I recommend that you distance yourself from this woman. I know she's a "friend" but what she's doing to you right now is not very friendly. I feel totally betrayed by this person and everyone tells me that I should not attempt to be friends with her ever again because she used me and never thought about what she was doing in relation to my feelings. "Everyone" is right on. Listen to them. With 4 marriages and lots of other men, plus splitting your lip (????) while kissing you at the bar, this lady sounds like someone you want to stay far, far away from. BTW How do you tell if a person is truly a friend or not, anyhow? I'm devasted now and looking on the internet, all I see is people going through this in their early 20's. At my age, I'm suppose to have kids in college, a portly stomach, and a wife that I read the paper with every night before going to bed at 9. I'm not that way. Your real issues appear to be personal ones. Forget the dragon lady and get yourself some counselling to help you develop deeper, more meaningful friendships. And don't worry about your age. If you're a halfway together 49 year old guy with a flat stomach, believe me, there are many women out there who want to get to know you. Just stay away from the ones who mug you in bars. Good luck!
Errol Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 I'm in your age bracket. I can't say from my own personal experience, but I can tell you about my brothers experience. He had a friend that became more than a friend after the death of my brothers wife. It was a relationship of convenience but he didn't see it that way. They had known each other for many years but had never had a romance because each was married. This woman was divorced and my brother was widowed. They "hooked up" as the kids say now. He fell for her. She claimed that she fell for him -- but dumped him as soon as someone "better" came along. The someone better being a person with more money. My brother was crushed and entered into a lot of one-night stands and dating some realy sleazy women -- most of which were half his age. He wasn't getting over the other woman. He started reading the personals and actually put in an ad. He was honest about himself and what he wanted and he got several responses. He met with them and he actually found someone with whom he clicked. They have been married almost 10 years now and are great together. My brother is 60. I'm sorry that she hurt you. Sounds like she didn't care about your feelings, but probably it was that you were there during a particularly lonly time and filled a void. She may not have realized the depth of your feelings -- even though you told her. She didn't feel the same way as you and didn't have the courage to tell you - so her fear of losing a friend from her life overrode any decency she had or any honest concern over your feelings and that is pretty selfish. Don't lose hope on finding companionship - and if you don't - then make sure your life is full of other things that make you happy -- but I wouldn't rule out finding someone!
Author real49 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Posted January 5, 2004 Thanks for your replies... for some reason your responses has made me feel so much better. I guess there is a problem with me and forming relationships and maybe counseling would help..... it just seems like such an enormous task. I really don't want to go to the "women half my age" route and one night stands just get me hugely depressed after awhile. It still hurts that I lost what I thought was a good friend (she has described me as being her best friend to people) but I can't reconcile the fact that she didn't have to hurt me that bad and she knew how I felt about her. Oh well...... I have a funny feeling the psychologist will not do much better. He probably has more money than me but he also has twice the stomach and this woman is as vain as they come. I'm sure though she'll be cautious with other "old friend's feelings" from now on but I wish I hadn't been the one to wake her up to the fact that she'll lose all her old male friends by continuing what she's did. Thank you for your kind responses.... I'm really glad I found this site. And, no, I'm not giving up yet but I don't think I'll try again until the pain lets up a bit. I'd feel pretty bad if I made someone else feel like this cause I was using them for convenience sake to comfort myself.
jenny Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 what a very tough story. not only is this woman a flake, she's a cowardly flake and a manipulative one to boot. i don't have much to add, but i did want to tell you that a guy, like yourself, with no baggage, is easily the most sought after partner in my age group (25-30). think about your supposed weaknesses as strengths. you're young, open, and loving, and now you know what you don't want. give us younger women a chance, and show up at the dragon lady's next sad little shin-dig party with a hot young professional of your own.
meanon Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 Don't be too ashamed about the way you are feeling, it happens to anyone regardless of age who experiences the emotional vulnerability of starting new relationships. My mother separated from my father after a 35 year marriage. After a year she started dating and she went through all the traumas that younger people go through. Occasionally she says she is far too old for it all and is going to retire gracefully - no sign of that yet. This woman has used you and you should exclude her from your life until you no are no longer vulnerable to her - forever if that's what it takes. She sounds desperately unhappy rather than immoral and as is often the case with such people, they behave badly in order to satisfy their own emotional needs. you need to put your own needs first. as you say, the least she could have done is to have been honest with you but that probably required a degree of emotional maturity/strength she does not possess at present. As to new relationships I agree with others that you are bound to be successful now you recognise the pattern of falling for needy women - as long as you understand why so as to avoid doing so again. Many of my friends (mid/late 30s) prefer men of your age. Avoid dating if it seems too grim - there are many other more enjoyable ways to meet women. Have fun
moimeme Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 I'm going to take quite a different tack. I think the root of this problem is communication, as it so often is. I have more than one friend who was positive that her conviction that there could not be anything but friendship between her and some fellow was clear to that fellow - only to find that the fellow clung stubbornly to the belief that more was possible. She has been clear with you that she only wanted you as a friend. She probably was being honest at the point she told you she was not ready for relationships, and she probably was being a bit cowardly about telling you that she and the shrink were getting involved. However, she did not lead you on. At any point, you could have asked her if she and the shrink were turning into an item, but you, too, avoided the truth. It is entirely possible that she meant exactly what she said when she said you was like a rock to her.. a true friend AND that she is terrified of jeopardizing that. She knows she doesn't succed in relationships. She probably suspects she wouldn't succeed in a relationship with you. She has already said she can't bear to lose you. I don't think she's manipulative or any of the other things people have called her. I think she does treasure your friendship. However, now you have fallen for her, you may have to end any sort of relationship with her for your own sake. Some people can still lead fulfilling lives and even marry and remain friends with old flames; for others, it's just too painful. That's a decision you'll have to make. You don't need to hate her or cast her in a bad light to do that. Just do it to save your heart.
Author real49 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Posted January 5, 2004 moimeme, I quite agree that communication is the problem here. The difference between your friend and this woman is that my old friend encouraged it to go beyond friendship and encouraged it for months.... I tried at different points to communicate: communicate how I felt about her and what were we doing. She had early in the process told me she was confused cause she'd just been through a big hurt. I asked her then if she wanted me to back off and her response was no, but love takes time. When I knew she had decided that she didn't want "love" with me she communicated by bringing the shrink into the picture a bit more at a time. I tried to "communicate" again when I felt things were changing.... I took her out on a big date and when we got back to her place and she distanced herself from me on the couch, I then asked again what was going on with us. I got the tirade I recently described. I was going to leave that night for my own sake and stay away but the issue of our friendship came into play and I stupidly tried to be a "friend" because she needed me to be so bad. She even called me the next day after spending all day with the shrink on his Harley to go out with me that night. I tend to disagree with you about her not leading me on...... but it is as you say, she led me on in order to hold my friendship. I don't think anyone here has told me to hate this woman... and I really don't and have no desire to try to hurt her feelings back. My Christmas party was composed of half of old girlfriends (and some with husbands) who I managed to regain a friendship with after a hurting relationship. I am a very good friend (lyal to a fault as my mother said when I was hurt this way as a teenager) and I don't blame this woman for wanting to lose that. The point of this post was not to assign blame but to deal with the fact that I hurt. I feel betrayed. She isn't hurt and I'm sure mister psychologist is holding her hand right now and assigning blame on to me for not leaving when I should.... after all, she didn't know how I felt, did she? If she works at it, she will regain my friendship one day but for now or maybe never, she might just find that it's easier to stay with Mr. psychologist and say "oh well, I told him I just wanted to be friends"..... I can't sit here and examine my role, her role, and gee, why can't we all communicate better. Unfortunately, the communication has happened in a most ugly way. The problem is, I'm having a hard time getting to a angry stage of what just happened. I tried to be friends with her because I believed that she needed me, the psychologist, and all other male friends to be just friends. That did work on helping feel less rejected. But it didn't work when I found out I was rejected and another man was having a more enjoyable time with her after the "rock" had sat through nights of crying. The reason I didn't ask about the shrink is because she surrounds herself with male friends and he was one. I thought it was transparent how he felt about her but that was problem.... I had mentioned to her early on that I thought that guy was in love with her. That is the reason I went that night.... she wanted me there and we were all "just friends" anyway. She had ample opportunity to tell me that she was getting involved with the shrink. If she was afraid of loosing me with that knowledge, than why did I have to get hit in the face with it at a party where I couldn't question it. I wish I was to a point of spiritual development that I could just accept my role in this, say "this happens" and move on. But I have this problem of feeling a 6 inch dagger in my chest that keeps me awake at night. I'm well aware I'm in a unrequited love dilemma and the problem is all mine. I'm not harboring any false beliefs that we will get back together as friends, then turn back into lovers and get married happily ever after. I kept telling my friend the other day, "no, she doesn't care about me" when he kept implying that if I had just continued to play it cool, I could be still dating her. He will back me up that it looked like we had become an item and he still thinks she'll possibly "see the light". I don't, but that doesn't make me feel better. To be honest, Solemate's response is just what I needed at this point. The damage is done - the sad reality is that if it hadn't pushed beyond friendship that the "rock" would still be there for her. I didn't fall in love until I was invited to and unfortuanately, these things leave a mess behind. I have pain to deal with and maybe it's okay for me to feel she's a flake and a "dragon lady" until the pain eases a bit. I'm certainly not contacting this woman and hopefully, she'll have enough sense to not contact me. She has another "rock" right now. She isn't reading this and I'm sure that others are defending her quite well. It felt good to get the sympathy I got here and to put it on the level where it is..... she screwed up with a friend and I screwed up by not jumping ship when I saw the storm approach. Right now I feel very rejected and the attempts of people here to standup for my feelings felt incredibly good. I really don't think she's terribly hurt and you have to admit, she could have done things better. I don't think people intentionally uses anyone but still, people get used - and I was used. I take the blame for allowing it to happen but this has been the most confusing situation dealing with intense loyalty to a very long friendship and feeling incredibly hurt and rejected at the same time. I don't think it's time for me to let her off the hook yet. I'm the one that needs to feel just a little bit angry at the moment so I can protect my feelings. She will be just fine and the shrink will win out on this one and become husband number 4. I have to go what I need to go through to get this damn knife out of my chest so I can get more than 4 hours of sleep at night.
brashgal Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 It's only been a few days since you fully realized what was happening. Take care of yourself, be good to yourself and it will probably be a good thing to limit contact with her and hers for a little while. Stuff happens, you are going to be ok, doesn't matter how old you are - it still hurts even though you understand it all a bit better than you did at 17 or 25...
jenny Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 do not, by any means, rush yourself into accepting it, either. anger is a powerful and essential tool to let us know who seeks to use us and who seeks to befriend us. if you decide to accept it and remain 'friends', well, she's won, as it were. she has her groupies and cake as well. is this how you want to spend the rest of your manhood? there are far too many amazing people in this world to spend one more iota of time on this broad.
moimeme Posted January 6, 2004 Posted January 6, 2004 The difference between your friend and this woman is that my old friend encouraged it to go beyond friendship and encouraged it for months Ah. I didn't glean that from the first post. When I knew she had decided that she didn't want "love" with me So that was definitely known to you, then. She will be just fine and the shrink will win out on this one and become husband number 4 Possibly. Maybe not. I'm the one that needs to feel just a little bit angry at the moment so I can protect my feelings Perhaps to a point. In the end, though, what you really need is to fear her. She sounds pretty screwed up and, as such, (and as you've already found out), she's not a good person to try to have a relationship with. Anger will only take you so far - it will fade, eventually, and you might be tempted to weaken again. I don't think people intentionally uses anyone but still, people get used - and I was used. Well that's the thing. You were trying to help out someone who genuinely has problems. No reason at all to be angry with yourself or ashamed that you're sad about the outcome. You were being a decent human to a person in trouble. The reason I suggested you not demonize her is that it is then easier for you to forgive your role in this. It's often harder to get over one's stupidity at being duped by a schemer than it is to forgive oneself for having too soft a heart, IMHO.
Author real49 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Posted January 6, 2004 So that was definitely known to you, then. Yes it was known to me then (are you a lawyer? -just kidding). The problem was trying to stay and still be the friend I had been. Not too bright of me. I don't mean to"demonize" her.... the times I held her crying showed me that the demons were eating her up. But the psychologist is probably holding her now while the demons torment her. I'm not needed anymore. Fear her, I don't know.... I think the best thing is to remove my friendship so I don't get hurt again and maybe, just maybe, she'll see that it might be beneficial to be mindful of what others are feeling. But she and I are close to 50 ( I have to work out 2 hours a day to try and not look it, she makes so much money that the plastic surgeon helps her out - and she is beautiful) and I guess at some point you run out of excuses. You are most certainly right, too much anger and you get yourself deeper in trouble.... plus, it's not good for the ole' cardiopulmonary system. Thank you moimeme, you have brought up valid points. jenny, thank you for your support.... your words give me great comfort and you are absolutely right.I'm taking your advice to heart. And in reference to your earlier post, I live in a college town so the women in the 25 to 30 bracket are all over the place. If I found one that could tell me who the MC5 were and what year the Vietnam War ended... then I'd probably feel more comfortable about dating a woman that age (I did actually go out with a 26 year old woman a couple of years ago after she called me up for a date, but it got kind of weird when her father was coming into town and the prospect of meeting him became a reality - he was just 2 years older than me. What do I call him, sir?). I will be all right. I've lost about 15 pounds through this but, hey, now I get compliments on how "fit" I look these days. I'll market this diet as the "Urequited Love Diet". Too bad it hurts like hell to practice it.
moimeme Posted January 6, 2004 Posted January 6, 2004 The problem was trying to stay and still be the friend I had been. Not too bright of me. Lots of people try to do it. Unfortunately, they rarely succeed. I feel for you. It's hard to have that hope and then find it dashed, for sure.
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