nathan983 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I'm reaching the point of making the ultimatum. File by this day, or I'm moving on. Is it worth the anguish of setting that day out a month, or should I just pretend everything is ok until that day comes and then say I'm ending it? The background is below... I met this woman about 6 years ago, she was undergoing a pseudo-separation and counselling. Her H was basically living at his Dad's and taking care of him, while they were seeing the counsellor. I was looking for opportunities to cheat on my travelling wife. In retrospect, my marriage was a mistake, I knew I was capable of cheating on her before we married. I did it, and probably slept with one different woman for each year I was married, all 7 of them. ANYWAY, I met her online in an innocuous chatroom, and became good friends. We started having lunch and the friendship grew. My W knew about the friendship, and was ok with it. We reached a point where we both knew we were in love, but had never done anything about it. She was trying to make her marriage work, I was unwilling to try and sleep with her, I'd found a woman I respected too much to put her in the OW position. We walked away cold, traded maybe two emails a year that were not much more than Christmas greetings, etc. After 3 years, we talked again for a few minutes on IM and it was like NO time had passed... We met for drinks to catch up, and kissed for the first time. We fell harder than ever, and eventually I got caught. Shortly before my divorce was final, she got caught, and her H still staying mostly with a friend. That's been over a year now. She claims mostly financial difficulties in ending her marriage. To keep us both going, we've been on outings with her kids, under the pretense that I'm a friend who's dating someone at her work. That someone always ends up working during the outings. I'm now not only in love with her, but I adore her kids. They seem to like me too, her son told me once that I'm like a second dad to him. Her daughter is just as sweet, and I love being around all of them. I guess, I'm starting to wonder if she's really brave enough to end her marriage. The reasons over time have ranged from worrying about how the kids will be affected, to what kind of damage her H can do regarding custody because of her affair, and of course the financial situation. The kids are her lifeline and gave her a reason to keep going during nearly 8 years of her marriage leaving her feeling empty. Maybe I'm just impatient? Of course my divorce was easier because there were no kids, but it killed me financially, and I know that scares her too. I'm trying to decide if I can keep doing this and be able to focus enough on a self employed career to make the money I need to thrive and hopefully help her be more comfortable with leaving. The idea of even just putting us on hold while I focus on work, and she on ending the marriage makes me feel like I've been punched in the chest. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated...
kymberann Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 I can't help to mention that maybe some hesitation on her part is that if you two end up together, you will do to her what you did to your ex wife. NO matter how much respect you have now. I think I would have that in the back of my mind. As for D-day, what do you have to lose by implementing it, what do you have not to lose? SOunds like you are not happy with the status quo as it is now, how much longer are you willing to wait and act under the pretense of her friend dating someone else? I guess I really don't understand, if this A is out in the open, you are no longer married but her H knows, there must be something else there other than the financial reason. Even the children as an excuse sounds like a stretch. I suggest implementing NC. Set it in advance and then count it down with the MW. Stay determined and consistent and tell MW you won't have any continued relationship until papers are legal. She may balk but you'll have two outcomes either she follows through and divorces or decides to stick it out with her H. Best to you!
MoonGirl Posted February 22, 2007 Posted February 22, 2007 You are in a tough situation, and a year is a long time to wait for someone to file for divorce. Has she spoken with a lawyer? In many states, an affair doesn't affect the custody ruling for children. A lawyer could help her figure out what her rights are and what the probable outcome of a divorce would be (financially and custody-wise). I don't see what she's waiting for unless she's holding out some hope of reconciliation. I had a hard time leaving my husband for many reasons, but your MW is already separated so I don't understand her hesitance...
Babybird Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I live in Wisconsin and there is a place called ProSe. It where people go when the divorce is amincable and the only cost is the filing fees.(Plus a small fee for the company). It ended up costing me and my X about $550 total. Maybe you should check around or she should check around and see if there is a place like that in your area. I don't think there is anything wrong with setting a day. I have a mental day in my head. I refuse to give him an ultimatum. He started out saying in 4 years when his son graduates. Now he is saying at the end of this school year. June is his ultimate goal, at least that he's telling me. I have given him until July 4th. Being that its independence day that is the day I chose to regain myself and stop being dependent on what he says and start seeing his actions. If not then as much as I love him and want to be with him I am sick and tired of being the OW. I want to see if WE work. Without the glamour, excitement and secrets. Just living in the everyday mundane. If he leaves it'll be interesting to see how we work together.
Guest Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 As the saying goes: when in doubt..DON'T. If you push before she is ready you will lose her.
frannie Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Hello nathan. I think it sounds like she's not in any way ready to end her marriage at the moment. Whatever reasons she's giving may or may not be 'real' reasons, or just things she's frightened of perhaps happening... all add up to the same thing: she's not ready. I've been down this route myself (as an OW), for 3 years, and I know: trying to talk logic and find solutions for the 'reasons' doesn't work... it's fear of leaving that is the real issue, and fear is a slippery fellow. It's so easy to get caught up in 'if onlys' as an OP. If only s/he'd leave everything would be OK.... then you can drive yourself mad thinking of ways (NC, threats, ultimatums, telling the BS) to get him/her to do what it is you want, and they very often say they want (and may even really really want!)... to leave. But years go by and they still don't do it. It's an aspiration, perhaps even a statement of intent... but doesn't necessarily mean they're actually going to DO anything. Or at least, not within your timescale. I think the only thing that on OP can do in these situations is concentrate on themselves. Make deadlines, etc. but for you. How much longer are you prepared to wait..? What do you want to do..? Stay in this situation (which probably won't change for a long, long time) or get out..?
frannie Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I was looking for opportunities to cheat on my travelling wife. In retrospect, my marriage was a mistake, I knew I was capable of cheating on her before we married. I did it, and probably slept with one different woman for each year I was married, all 7 of them. --- She was trying to make her marriage work, I was unwilling to try and sleep with her, I'd found a woman I respected too much to put her in the OW position. I've just snipped these two comments because I feel there might be something lurking in them somewhere. I can't quite believe that there were eight women there (your W and seven original OW) who were so lacking in qualities that commanded your respect, and it was only this ninth woman who was worthy of it. Are you sure that your 'respect' for her didn't spring from the fact that she may well have rejected your advances anyway (given that she was working on her marriage)..? Are you quite sure that your love and respect for her isn't based on the fact that she's been (and remains) somewhat unattainable for a number of years..? I'm with kmberann in feeling that something of her reticence to divorce and be with you may stem from her mistrust of your likely future behaviour. Your history shows that you've not respected any of the women in your past... why should your future be any different..? That idea is bound to be going through her mind.
Guest Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 Sad but true. They say... But you know? I always try to look at the situation; the whole picture. Befriending one is not the same as hiding, running to others or secrets. I may have said one thing as to be hold up, won't say a lie to hurt others though. Finding out while withholding is just out right wrong. Eventually you find yourselves hidden or relaying messages to get a clue as to time, where when and then you find ahem 'lovers' but secretly. I don't and never liked the screwed ideals people 'believe' they will do for a quickie. Just to end feeling remorse or "how exciting' it is not. Then, I preclude, is just fantasy about what the real deal is or was. To each their own, i guess.
MoonGirl Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 I'm with kmberann in feeling that something of her reticence to divorce and be with you may stem from her mistrust of your likely future behaviour. Your history shows that you've not respected any of the women in your past... why should your future be any different..? That idea is bound to be going through her mind. Agreed. My husband admitted to having several affairs with past girlfriends. I could never get this out of my mind. Of course, I never spoke to him about it, but I thought about it often, especially when he would come home late at night after partying with "friends."
puddleofmud Posted February 23, 2007 Posted February 23, 2007 You haven't said how long she has been separated from her husband (or perhaps I missed that fact) but a woman w/ children will always place her children/ family first (a single parent with children regards this as their family even with no male partner included). With that thought you may need to internalize that she may need some time to experience you with her family--maybe even a LOT of time before she invests her children's lives as well as hers, especially if she did not or no longer trusts the dynamics of her past marriage and needs to sort this out without "interference". I don't know how much you have discussed how she feels about the end of her marriage and what caused it as these may be aspects she needs to work out within herself in order that she may be a healthy person for herself and her children, first, and partner to another some time down the line so to speak. Being that she is new at being a single parent she may be overwhelmed. Being that she is new at being just single she may be overwhelmed. Being that she must now sort out and be responsible for all day to day details with out a marital partner IS overwhelming. She may just be overwhelmed! There may also be personality differences: where one would expect when one is so "in love" the person they are in love with to just jump into their arms given the opportunity. SHE may not be that kind of person. She may be more cautious where you have perhaps tended to jump more quickly (not being judgemental: but it would seem that you have jumped sexually a few times--merely an observation). You have many good signs which you should take to heart: she is involving you with her children, her children like you... However, this is not parenting nor acceptance that you would be capable of parenting. Your partner has a great deal at stake and right now, perhaps, the mere details of divorce are not an immediate priority. She may just need some peace and down time from the demands of what has transpired. Being in love is about being a friend, a best friend, so try to be strong and patient (this is also one aspect of being a good parent). Enjoy each other right now and learn to communicate your wants and needs before you do anything rash about demands that may break the camel's back! Concentrating on your new business isn't a bad thing: it may be good for her to see that you are working hard in order to be a better person, taking care of yourself and that you are quite determined to have her and her children as YOUR family somewhere in the near future. Best Wishes and Warm Regards!
Guest Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 She's not going anywhere Nathan. She would have left after 6 yrs.
NightStarr8 Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 I'm reaching the point of making the ultimatum. File by this day, or I'm moving on. Is it worth the anguish of setting that day out a month, or should I just pretend everything is ok until that day comes and then say I'm ending it? The background is below... If you're going to give her a deadline, you should let her know about it. Her excuses are just that, excuses to not move forward with her life. Her marriage is a disaster, he's living outside of the home, she's having a relationship with you. Her kids probably know you're not just a friend dating her co-worker. She's not fooling anyone. Her kids are something she should consider before divorcing, but there's not much difference between divorce and the separation they currently have on the kids. Finances post divorce can be a problem, but people survive. She's not moving on because she's scared. Her fears have very little to do with the kids, finances, her husband, etc... It's what she thinks of herself. Give her a deadline and suggest she see a therapist within that time frame and work on what is going on within herself so she can move forward with her life. That may take a while, in setting your deadline take that into consideration.
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