She's not a nice person

[fooled]

re:

 

The problems sounded *so similar* to the problems in the last relationship that I couldn't tell the difference.

 

My apology to you, Fooled.

 

-Rio

 

Hello, dear! Yes, yes, I know. Very similar. It's been a year since I've had contact with the 1st ex and have no desire for any.

 

It takes me a while to learn a lesson. There'll be NC with the most recent ex from now on.

 

I guess I just don't know how to spot alcoholics. Do I just bail every time a girl has a few drinks - just in case?

[riobikini]

re:

 

Fooled: " I guess I just don't know how to spot alcoholics. Do I just bail every time a girl has a few drinks - just in case?"

 

Nah -just casually ask her this hypothetical question, "By the way, honey, if you were stranded on a deserted island which would you attempt first? -spearing fish for dinner, or fermenting coconuts for an afternoon toddy?"

 

(Smile)

 

The answer you receive should tell you all you need to know.

 

('nother Smile)

 

-Rio

[bluetuesday]

I wish I truly understood how to banish this neediness. Is it as simple as demoting the ego?

 

in a way it is as simple, although it's by no means easy to do since the ego is a wily old dog and infinitely more subtle than you suspect. the ego causes neediness by making you feel unworthy. on the flip side it also causes the arrogance that makes you think you're something special.

 

to truly overcome the ego you need to transcend both these extremes - fighting the ego or trying to sublimate it will just not work because using the ego to fight the ego is impossible.

 

a person with little or no ego sees themselves as having inherent worth because they are a human being. they also see the same worth in everyone else. they see meaning in their lives above and beyond what other people think of them. and they see that value judgments made my most people are simply worthless because they come from the ego, which is always self-serving.

 

this is what i would strive for - absorbing the truth that while your ego lives, your judgments about yourself, either good or bad, cannot yet be trusted. since you need validation from other people, i assume you already know this.

 

if you can accept that your judgments are flawed, you must accept that so are other people's. they also make judgments from the ego - judgments which are therefore subject to change depending on their mood. there is no logical reason to trust these judgments. the people making them have no more insight than you. so why would you need other people to think good of you?

 

the ego's MO is to stay hidden. if it can't stay hidden, it will make you think you need it. if it can't make you think you need it, it will try to make you fight it - knowing you'll use the ego to do so. if you truly want to overcome your ego, cut off it's lifeblood and stop listening to it. give it no space to work in your life and concentrate on coming to the realisation that the ego can only operate while you let it. you are plagued by neediness because you allow yourself to be. you've handed over control to your ego and it's running all over you. you need to take back that control. that starts with a decision to run your own life.

 

so yes, it's as uncomplicated as getting rid of the ego and it goes hand in hand with finding meaning and purpose in your life and in truly understanding your inherent worth as a human being. in other words, it's a life's work. i am on this path, and i fail more times than i succeed. but my ego is panicking. it knows i will get there in the end.

[MagnoliaJane]

the ego's MO is to stay hidden. if it can't stay hidden, it will make you think you need it. if it can't make you think you need it, it will try to make you fight it - knowing you'll use the ego to do so. if you truly want to overcome your ego, cut off it's lifeblood and stop listening to it. give it no space to work in your life and concentrate on coming to the realisation that the ego can only operate while you let it. you are plagued by neediness because you allow yourself to be. you've handed over control to your ego and it's running all over you. you need to take back that control. that starts with a decision to run your own life.

 

Hi BT, I'm not a psychologist so I'm trying to follow here. If you=your ego then how can you separate yourself from yourself? How do you "stop" listening to it/the ego? Just ignoring your thoughts? Hearing one thing in your head and deciding to do another? Be your own worst enemy? To me it sounds like this: "do not follow your drives, because that's the ego speaking". How do you "recognize" your ego? Is it about that part of yourself that is "off balance"? Crying, instability, unhappiness, neediness...? Is it safe to say: oh, that's my ego, I have to "distance" myself from it. Easier said than done.

 

My mother always tells me "don't think too much", while I can't stop thinking.

 

I do hear what you say about the ego, and it's interesting, but I am wondering how to bring it from a theoretical to a practical level?

[bluetuesday]

Hi BT, I'm not a psychologist so I'm trying to follow here. If you=your ego then how can you separate yourself from yourself? How do you "stop" listening to it/the ego? Just ignoring your thoughts? Hearing one thing in your head and deciding to do another? Be your own worst enemy? To me it sounds like this: "do not follow your drives, because that's the ego speaking". How do you "recognize" your ego? Is it about that part of yourself that is "off balance"? Crying, instability, unhappiness, neediness...? Is it safe to say: oh, that's my ego, I have to "distance" myself from it. Easier said than done.

 

My mother always tells me "don't think too much", while I can't stop thinking.

 

I do hear what you say about the ego, and it's interesting, but I am wondering how to bring it from a theoretical to a practical level?

 

i think of the ego as a pseudo-self that has taken over our ability to make rational and ultimately helpful decisions. the ability of our 'real selves' to make decisions is still there, we have just temporarily put it aside because having the ego make decisions allows us (and of course i include myself in this) to live the lie that we're not truly in control of our lives, that we are bound to be thrown about on the sea of emotions, that we can't help reacting in a certain way when certain things happen to us.

 

so while the ego IS part of ourselves, it's not a permanent part unless we want it to be. it is a separate add-on to our core being. the vast majority of people think that the ego IS them and they approach life from the perspective of being unable to do much to control their basic urges, their emotions and their thoughts. and because they think there is no other way, for them there isn't.

 

practically, if you want to reduce your ego, i would begin by recognising that in every situation you always have choices. so when you're conflicted over anything it means you can go two ways. you can take the road that says 'i can't help getting angry (or whatever) because i'm programmed that way' or you can realise that between you thinking an angry thought and having an angry emotion that leads to a angry physical reaction to something or someone, there is a pause when someone has to make the decision how you will respond.

 

if that someone is your ego, it will always respond a certain way, because the ego is like a computer which is always going to react a certain way when you press one of its buttons. this is why people react badly to situations time and time again, even when in their rational moments they've promised themselves they won't.

 

but during that pause there is a moment when you can choose NOT to indulge your ego. it is not going against what you think, it is going against what your ego thinks, and truly YOU and are your ego are not one indivisible.

 

once you begin to silence your 'drives' as you call them, you will begin to recognise that there is a difference between what you (the real you) wants and what the ego makes you think you can't live without. many ego-driven people have addictions to things because they believe the lie that denying themselves those things would make life pointless.

 

i came to recognise my ego through realising i had choices and wondering why despite my resolution i STILL reacted to things in a certain negative way. i felt like somehow i wasn't in the driving seat. and if i wasn't, who the hell was??

 

so i began to see that in every situation, one choice or thought or emotion was good for me (good in the sense it didn't make me feel i was lacking anything, good in the sense it didn't harm anyone, including myself) and that one choice was bad for me (bad in the sense it reinforced the idea that i needed something outside myself to be whole within myself, or it harmed someone).

 

with practice i was able to see between the choices and try to choose the good one. it's hard when a situation forces you to react quickly. but it's not impossible. often i pick badly, because i've had a lifetime of reacting negatively if someone attacks me (for example) but sometimes i pick well and those times have been the greatest teacher of all, if only because they've taught me that it's NOT hard-wired that we always have to repeat the same mistakes. there is an alternative.

 

i'm sorry there's not really a black and white answer. you get to know the ego only by knowing how it works, by submitting to it and realising later it was the wrong choice, by making good choices and seeing how easier your life becomes, and seeing how the ego loses its grip once you question its reality. trial and error, in other words.

 

plus, it's impossible to think too much.

[Spinderella]

in a way it is as simple, although it's by no means easy to do since the ego is a wily old dog and infinitely more subtle than you suspect. the ego causes neediness by making you feel unworthy. on the flip side it also causes the arrogance that makes you think you're something special.

True. Its what makes you feel wonderful when you are first with someone and terrible when they no longer want you. Same coin, two sides.

to truly overcome the ego you need to transcend both these extremes - fighting the ego or trying to sublimate it will just not work because using the ego to fight the ego is impossible.

 

so yes, it's as uncomplicated as getting rid of the ego and it goes hand in hand with finding meaning and purpose in your life and in truly understanding your inherent worth as a human being. in other words, it's a life's work. i am on this path, and i fail more times than i succeed. but my ego is panicking. it knows i will get there in the end.

I think meditating is also helpful with this and any other practise which allows you to observe and detach from the mind.

[JCD]

Actually, you should use your ego only if it will make you better off. Of course there is the danger to feeding your ego and making things worse off. But in that case, there is life which is a great teacher and it will beat you down until you get your ego back in check.

[Trialbyfire]

Ego vs Id. Always a battle.

[underpants]

I had always thought is was a battle of the superego vs. the id and the ego (in healty well adjusted folks) the mediator of the two.

 

Kind of that devil (id) and angel (superego) on your shoulders and your conscioius (ego) helping you compromise between the two.

 

What do I know?

 

Anyway, fooled, I don't think you should worry or contact this woman any more. It can't be resolved with her. You are doing good work though by using the experience to find a deeper meaning for your patterns and seeking a way to get out of an unhealthy cycle.

[Trialbyfire]

Have you never been the middle-man, where both sides are at you? I would prefer to be on one side, rather than be in the middle.

 

Yes, the worst battle is between the Id and the Super-ego with the Ego attempting to mediate, although it gets more complex than that, or so I'm given to understand. I think that Super-ego also conflicts with Ego and Ego and Id also clash.

 

All of this said, I'm no professional.

[burning 4 revenge]

humans are basically evil, but women can be conspicuosly evil and get away with it, because they're in demand

[Trialbyfire]

I always thought there were more women than men in this world. If so, men should be in greater demand than women.

[CrossRhodes]

Have you never been the middle-man, where both sides are at you? I would prefer to be on one side, rather than be in the middle.

 

Yes, the worst battle is between the Id and the Super-ego with the Ego attempting to mediate, although it gets more complex than that, or so I'm given to understand. I think that Super-ego also conflicts with Ego and Ego and Id also clash.

 

All of this said, I'm no professional.

That's more or less it. The ego is us, our conscious experience. It mediates the id (our inner drives) and our superego (our ideals and conscience).

 

I'm not sure if BlueTuesday was using the Freudian sense of the word ego. In Freudian terms, what Fooled described is a dominant id i.e. his desire for validation is overruling his ego. Just to complicate things, Freud also described some evasive maneouvres called ego defenses e.g. projection, displacement, denial, rationalisation. In proper Freudian terms, I think BT was referring to these. Have a look here if you want to read more:

 

http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/ss/defensemech.htm

 

So in summary, the Freudian perspective here is to identify our ego defenses in these situations and analyse them. If we can do this successfully, our ego can then make a better choice that favours the ego-ideal (the values part of our superego). The rewards of "living true to our values" is a concept that will be familiar to students of Stephen Covey, Jesus Christ etc

[Trialbyfire]

That's more or less it. The ego is us, our conscious experience. It mediates the id (our inner drives) and our superego (our ideals and conscience).

 

I'm not sure if BlueTuesday was using the Freudian sense of the word ego. In Freudian terms, what Fooled described is a dominant id i.e. his desire for validation is overruling his ego. Just to complicate things, Freud also described some evasive maneouvres called ego defenses e.g. projection, displacement, denial, rationalisation. In proper Freudian terms, I think BT was referring to these. Have a look here if you want to read more:

 

http://psychology.about.com/od/theoriesofpersonality/ss/defensemech.htm

 

So in summary, the Freudian perspective here is to identify our ego defenses in these situations and analyse them. If we can do this successfully, our ego can then make a better choice that favours the ego-ideal (the values part of our superego). The rewards of "living true to our values" is a concept that will be familiar to students of Stephen Covey, Jesus Christ etc

Thanks, that's interesting stuff.

[CrossRhodes]

Thanks, that's interesting stuff.

 

Yeah, it was actually interesting putting those ideas into a brief message. You'll also find that Freud's structural model lends itself to other straightforward explanations e.g. anxiety is loss of ego control, and depression results from the superego (the conscience part to be exact) punishing the ego.

 

I've always liked the intuitiveness of his structural model. The psychosexual development stuff turns most people off Freud (me included).

[CaliGuy]

Perfect, BT! Perceptive and inspiring words.

 

I'm not actually back at square 1. Our initial break wasn't really all that painful, as we were both unhappy at the time. I just have to get control of my neediness and ego.

 

 

Fooled, please read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" - Glover.

 

He addresses a lot of co-dependency, self-worth, self-validation issues. The same ones you have. That book will do you wonders.

 

It worked for me, it will work for you.