sick of playing games!

[eloquent]

I just found this site and I have to say that it has really helped me so much these last few days. You guys are all great and it is wonderful to know that there are other people out there who have made it through the same things that right now seem so difficult for me.

 

Sorry if this is a bit longwinded, I'll try to keep it short. My boyfriend of almost two years broke up with me 6 weeks ago. We would have petty fights and then always make up afterwards. These fights were NEVER about anything serious- just little things and I never realized it was hurting him the way it did because he never said anything to me and always acted happy. I think we spent an unhealthy amount of time together. Finally, we had a big misunderstanding that led to our break up. We both realized after breaking up that it was a misunderstanding, but he said that it "didn't matter." When he broke up with me, he told me that I was the best thing that had ever happened to him, and that he loved me, but that he was unhappy in the relationship because he felt like he wasn't good enough for me and that we would still fight even when he was trying really hard not to. I explained to him that he should've communicated that to me before letting it get to the point where he wanted to end things. I also explained that while the lack of communication on his part was his fault, it was my fault as well for not being more sensitive and taking him for granted by assuming his feelings wouldn't get hurt if I took my bad moods out on him.

Another issue is the fact that he really wants to get good grades for this semester (we are both college students, and he is pre-med.) He studies all day and all night, and his mom (who I've been talking to about the breakup) says that that's all he talks about and that when she asked why he broke up with me, he said "I can't focus on my schoolwork if I'm dating her." She says he has never said one negative thing about me.

Since the break up, things have been rocky. At first he would still come over and spend the night at my house and cuddle with me (all initiated by him, not me.) I finally told him that had to stop and that we shouldn't see each other for a while so that he could figure out what he wanted. We started talking to each other again after a week of that. He always asks if I've been talking to other guys. The other day we were laying in his bed together and he suddenly said "I miss you" and looked like he was about to cry. I asked him out on a date a few nights ago, and then at the end when he tried to kiss me, I asked him if we were dating. He said yes, and I said "We'll just take it slow, ok?" to which he agreed. Since then when I talk to him he will have periods of hot and cold, so to speak--sometimes he will be super sweet, offering to take care of me one night when i didn't feel well and talking to me in the voice he always used when we were dating and then sometimes he will be more distant.

Then Valentine's day, I got sick of playing games and we agreed to talk. We both agreed we broke up for a completely fixable reason. He says he does not want to be in a relationship or dating anyone now because he has to deal with school. I respect that, even though it's lame, so we agreed to be "dating" until the end of the semester and then maybe try again. He was fine with that and then a couple minutes later said "NO I want to be friends we'll be friends for a month starting tomorrow and then see how you feel." He says he doesn't know if he "loves me enough" to try again and that sometimes he thinks we weren't right for each other, despite the fact that the first year and 8 months of our relationship was absolutely amazing. That entire night he cuddles with me, kisses me, and acts like we're dating. The next day he comes over and lays his head on my lap and does other similar things that "just friends" don't do. Should I go into NC? I really do love him, but I don't see how continuing to play games with him will make him realize what he's missing. I have a bad feeling that he will only realize what he's doing when it's too late. He keeps saying he doesn't know what he wants, and while that's understandable, when I ask for a decision, he says he wants to be friends and then we go back into the whole "we're friends but don't act like it" situation. Not sure what to do

[oppath]

It's simple. Friend's don't do what you two are doing. And honestly, if you wanted more than friend's, are you really ready to accept friendship?

 

When he says he doesn't know what he wants, believe him. I wouldn't "date" him. Tell him this is too difficult for you, and you need some time away from him with no communication so you can process how you feel and heal. Tell him not to contact you for at least a month, and if he does, maybe, just maybe you'll agree to talk to him then if he expresses a sincere desire to date you and you still feel the same.

 

Don't hem and haw. Right now, you are fulfilling his needs for intimacy and a connection to help deal with his stress, and you aren't receiving anything. It is unfair of him to put you in this situation.

[Shadowdog36]

Sounds like he really is focused on school right now. Why is that a bad thing? If you guys make it through this, you could possibly have the rest of your life to spend together. What's wrong with a little space now?

 

And why try to define it. It sounds like, by his and your actions, that you're dating, yet you attempt to define it to him. Maybe the 'pressure' of dating combined with the pressure of school is too much all at once. Why not be someone that can be more understanding, and realize that it isn't always about what you need, and maybe he's not playing any games, just trying to cope.

 

You mentioned that sometimes he's sweet, while other times he's distant. Hello??? He's a person, just like you. He's got his own issues, just like you. He's NOT just your boyfriend, he's his own person, and if you can't give him the space to be his own person...to be moody from time to time...maybe you're the one that has the problem, not him.

 

Why does it always have to be all or nothing?

[eloquent]

Sounds like he really is focused on school right now. Why is that a bad thing? If you guys make it through this, you could possibly have the rest of your life to spend together. What's wrong with a little space now?

 

And why try to define it. It sounds like, by his and your actions, that you're dating, yet you attempt to define it to him. Maybe the 'pressure' of dating combined with the pressure of school is too much all at once. Why not be someone that can be more understanding, and realize that it isn't always about what you need, and maybe he's not playing any games, just trying to cope.

 

You mentioned that sometimes he's sweet, while other times he's distant. Hello??? He's a person, just like you. He's got his own issues, just like you. He's NOT just your boyfriend, he's his own person, and if you can't give him the space to be his own person...to be moody from time to time...maybe you're the one that has the problem, not him.

 

Why does it always have to be all or nothing?

 

I have no problem continuing like we are without a title..it is just the fact that he is always unwilling to entertain the idea of getting back together or trying again when school is no longer such a stressor in the summer. I don't want to wait around for nothing because I don't think that's healthy for me and it will just take me that much longer to move on. I am not asking for all or nothing, but I'm asking for some kind of indicator from him that the idea of a future relationship can remain open--which sometimes he is amicable to, and then others not.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am really proud of him for putting his career/school first. I think that's really admirable. But I'm not sure if I should be waiting around for someone who so far just seems like they are keeping me open as an option. Thanks for your input though

[alasia]

I could be wrong, but if I were you I'd go NC.

 

My boyfriend split up with me around 8 weeks ago due to one too many arguments - I also used to lash out and hit him sometimes, which is beyond contempt; so he had good reason to end it.

 

A week after we went on our 'break' (which is what he called it) I spent the night at his place and he said he still loved me and wanted me in his life. I spent 2 further nights out there and we did all the couple stuff you described in your first post.

 

Over the next few weeks, he'd go through phases of 'hot and cold', I'd stay over for one or two nights at a time and we acted just like we used to (minus the arguments). I saw us as being on track to getting back together, but whenever I asked if my ex still had feelings for me he'd usually say I don't know. I'd say I didn't think we were going to get back together and he'd tell me not to say it; that sometimes he 'does the unexpected'.

 

For a couple of weeks after that (up until last week) he changed to still being cuddly and coupley when I stayed over, but if I asked if he had feelings, most of the time he'd say no.

A couple of times he said he did and that he missed me; and one time he said through text message that he did want to get back together eventually, which confused me.

 

Throughout this time I was so confused by what I saw as mixed messages, that I texted, phoned and went to see him a lot. I handled it completely the wrong way and maybe that played a part in his confusion, or maybe he was just playing me; I'm not sure.

 

All I know is he now says he never wants to see me again, doesn't love me or have any feelings for me and hasn't for "a while". I'll never get the answers I want and if I had that time all over again, I would have gone NC in the first week and see what happened.

 

For your own sanity, I think you should do the same.

If he truly loves you and wants to be with you, he'll make a real effort to get in touch with you.

[eloquent]

^^ your situation does sound a lot like mine. I think I knew all along that NC is what I need to do, for myself, but it's so hard. I really hope your situation works out for you--maybe your NC with him will have the same effect I'm hoping mine will: giving them some perspective to figure out what they want instead of stringing us along in the process. We don't need to be with people who are too immature to make a decision and stick by it!

 

Now my only question is, do I tell him I'm going NC? Something like "you just want to be friends, and clearly you can't treat me like a friend right now so we shouldn't talk for a while" Or do I just blow him off and act like I'm too busy for him when he calls (and don't ever initiate contact with him)? I tried the second option for a week and it worked like a charm--he started calling all the time asking what I was doing and would drop everything if he thought I would hang out with him. The minute I started hanging out with him again (why did I do that?) he returned to that "hot/cold" stage.

 

So would it be best to give him a heads up? We're driving back to college together today (I can't get out of that) so tomorrow is the beginning of NC. I want him to realize he needs to make an effort and show up groveling at my doorstep if he wants me back. If not, fine-I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't sure if they want to be in one with me. I'm done with the games.

[alasia]

No don't tell him, just do it. As others would say, the whole point of NC is just that - no contact. If you tell him you're doing it, that's contact!

 

Just don't make any contact at all, avoid seeing him and don't take any calls, reply to text messages, anything like that. He'll get the message eventually.

 

And whatever you do, don't make the same mistake you did before and start hanging out with him the first (or second, or even third!) time he asks. The point of NC is to move on and heal, but if you think you might want him back one day then make him work for it.

 

Basically, ignore him until he apologises and says he wants you back - and will make changes to ensure the relationship works. I'd say carry on with limited contact for a while even if he does come out and say what you want to hear - if he continues to say he wants you back then you know he's definitely interested, and then maybe it's time to have a chat about what you want form the relationship - laying out ground rules, things like that.

 

I can't see NC doing anything to help me and my ex; I messed up in a big way and then became a bit of a stalker because of the 'mixed messages', so now he thinks I'm psycho and pities me apparently!

Not a great basis for starting again.

 

He's also been saying for about 2 weeks now that he's over me, wants me to move on with my life, isn't attracted to me and has no feelings for me whatsoever (despite the fact we slept together last Sunday, which was apparently him pitying me again!) and he knows I went out with another guy (as friends, but he doens't know that) last night, because he's a bus driver and I had to catch his bus home - and I walked to the bus stop with the guy I'd been out with - but I don't think it would have bothered him.

 

It's good that I finally have clarity - gutting, but good I suppose.

As long as he sticks to what he's saying and doesn't change his mind again!

[Shadowdog36]

Trying to have a relationship based solely on your terms of what is acceptable will FAIL.

 

Manipulating someone in the hopes of them 'groveling at your doorstep' is childish and mean. You're asking him to apologise, and I don't know if he even knows what he did wrong.

 

Pushing someone to constantly define the depth of their feeling will push someone away. You're spending time together, enjoying each others company, and occasionally he has to focus on school. Then you push for a definition of what's happening. Everyone always says that actions speak louder than words. Why not let them?

 

You will lose this man. He will go on, and you'll be bitter and angry about why you can never get a 'good guy'. You get what you give, and it sounds like you're giving nothing. A relationship takes empathy. Be careful of seeing things from only your side.

[eloquent]

Well, what do you think I should do? Just let things go on the way they are? What if 3 months from now he does what alasia's ex did and tells me he doesn't care about me anymore? I will hurt all over again. Believe me when I say I really don't want to go NC with him, but I feel like it's the only way for both of us to see if this relationship is what we really want.

[oppath]

I disagree with shadowdog. What I see happening is he is getting his needs met whereas she has to settle for less than her needs, and it is not the same thing as a compromise. A compromise would have been him saying "I really love you but feel I need to focus more on school. This may mean I will see you a little less but it doesn't mean I don't care about you. Are you okay with this?"

 

That is a compromise. It is not about defining the relationship. It is about having your needs met and your love reciprocated. She is not trying to define anything; she desires to know if she should drop him and go through the painful process of moving on, or if she should be patient with him.

 

Is it fair for him to keep her in limbo if he does NOT know what he wants? Absolutely not. He can want her; he can hope for a future with her; he can make this clear to her and STILL focus on school. A compromise would be to say "I'm busy, and need to focus; perhaps we can make Wednesday night and Saturday nights OUR nights."

[Shadowdog36]

That's exactly the conversation that needs to be had! Why does he have to be the one to initiate it? Open communication should ALWAYS be the first line of attack or defense. And by open, I mean honest, without any pressure, and keeping in mind both of your needs.

 

When he moved in to kiss you, and you asked if you were dating, why did you do that? To define it. I'll say it again, actions speak louder. This guy has some issues, but I think they deal with self confidence and not with you. When he says that he doesn't think he's good enough for you, that should be a major red flag.

 

Eloquent, it's obvious that you're the dominant one in this relationship, and cutting this guy off will not get you the desired effect. He will cower, and his ego will be shot. You really want a guy to come back to you that way? You will not be happy that way.

 

My advice...give him the space he needs right now. If you have to, withdraw a little emotionally, so that if things don't work, you're not set up for a big fall. Have the conversation with him, where you tell him that you'd rather give him up for a little while than lose him altogether. Suggest a short-term compromise, for the semester or for the next couple of months, where you can still enjoy each other without the pressure of him feeling that he isn't good enough because he can't spend as much time as he should with his 'girlfriend'. Keep your schedules flexible to see each other, so that if plans need to change, neither of you is hurt or upset. Based on your relationship, you'll know what the appropriate amount of contact is with each other.

 

You said in your initial post that your first problem was a lack of communication. Why Why Why would you think that by eliminating all communication, you could solve your problems? It's obvious you don't want to leave this guy, and you feel that no contact will get you what you want???

 

Whatever happened to being supportive of someone you care about? I understand that both of you need to be happy, but all the time? Sometimes when you care about someone, you need to make short-term sacrifices, to help them, to help yourself, and to help the relationship.

 

Gauge his interest and yours. Promise to be faithful to each other, and allow this a chance. This guy seems overwhelmed, and it sounds like he took the easy way out, even though it isn't what he really wanted. I think he will surprise you if you give this to him.

[oppath]

What you call "defining" and pressure I call asserting boundaries. Actions do speak louder than words, and it is entirely possible that his actions do not indicate love and desire, but selfishness and cowardice. Words are needed to back up actions. Actions only speak louder IF words back them up. For example, I won't kiss or have sex with an ex if we are not dating. That is a boundary. There is a difference between ****ing and making love, and even if someone loves me, if they don't love me enough to be with me, sex is ****ing, not making love. Therefore, and ex can't kiss me unless she was sincerely wanting to reconcile. It is a boundary. It is not about defining the relationship, it is about asserting what is and is not acceptable to me and my emotions.

 

Going no contact is NOT about manipulating. It is about distancing yourself so you can heal and during that time, regain your esteem and confidence. If the other person comes back, you are (a) more attractive because you've regained some of your confidence and (b) more capable of making the decision, do I want this person back? IF they come back. NC is NOT about making the other person miss you. It is about giving yourself the space and time to heal.

 

How I view this situation, is that when he kissed her and she asked "hey, are we dating?", she wasn't defining anything, she was initiating an open and honest conversation. He didn't reciprocate. I do agree that she could better explain herself and her needs. I see nothing wrong with saying "listen, I know you want to focus on school right now, but it's not fair to my needs to put me in some state of limbo. I do want to keep you in my life and I am willing to see you less and I support you in focusing on school. I understand your desire. However, your actions indicate that you do want me in your life, but I need you to be consistent in your actions, and I need your words to support them. I am willing to give you more space but I would like to know how sincere you are about keeping me in your life."

 

So, eloquent, I'd say something like that. If he hems and haws and says "I don't know," I'd tell him "I am willing to support your goals and compromise, but 'I don't know' is not fair to my heart."

 

This is a risk! Many couples do hem and haw for a short period of time, but more often one person's needs aren't met and bitterness and remorse sets in. I'd say it is more common for a relationship to be in limbo for a couple months, and slowly fade, with one person being extremely hurt than it is for both people to reconnect after some time. This doesn't mean it won't happen, it just means there is a risk in waiting.

[eloquent]

That's exactly the conversation that needs to be had! Why does he have to be the one to initiate it? Open communication should ALWAYS be the first line of attack or defense. And by open, I mean honest, without any pressure, and keeping in mind both of your needs.

 

When he moved in to kiss you, and you asked if you were dating, why did you do that? To define it. I'll say it again, actions speak louder. This guy has some issues, but I think they deal with self confidence and not with you. When he says that he doesn't think he's good enough for you, that should be a major red flag.

 

Eloquent, it's obvious that you're the dominant one in this relationship, and cutting this guy off will not get you the desired effect. He will cower, and his ego will be shot. You really want a guy to come back to you that way? You will not be happy that way.

 

My advice...give him the space he needs right now. If you have to, withdraw a little emotionally, so that if things don't work, you're not set up for a big fall. Have the conversation with him, where you tell him that you'd rather give him up for a little while than lose him altogether. Suggest a short-term compromise, for the semester or for the next couple of months, where you can still enjoy each other without the pressure of him feeling that he isn't good enough because he can't spend as much time as he should with his 'girlfriend'. Keep your schedules flexible to see each other, so that if plans need to change, neither of you is hurt or upset. Based on your relationship, you'll know what the appropriate amount of contact is with each other.

 

You said in your initial post that your first problem was a lack of communication. Why Why Why would you think that by eliminating all communication, you could solve your problems? It's obvious you don't want to leave this guy, and you feel that no contact will get you what you want???

 

Whatever happened to being supportive of someone you care about? I understand that both of you need to be happy, but all the time? Sometimes when you care about someone, you need to make short-term sacrifices, to help them, to help yourself, and to help the relationship.

 

Gauge his interest and yours. Promise to be faithful to each other, and allow this a chance. This guy seems overwhelmed, and it sounds like he took the easy way out, even though it isn't what he really wanted. I think he will surprise you if you give this to him.

 

 

I already pretty much told him what you said. I said I agreed to be semi-dating, aka friends that admit they have feelings for each other but aren't defined as a couple, until the summer. That we would be "reserved" for each other. He agreed for about five minutes but then suddenly changed his mind...I have no idea why?!

 

That's when he said "i dont know if i love you enough" and that he's not sure if we are "right for each other"...both of which I think are BS because his actions indicate differently. But like oppath said, I really need his words to back up his actions. I was completely fine with taking a break but I don't know why he suddently changed his mind. That's when he said that he wanted to try being "just friends"...although I saw him a few times after that and he keeps acting the way he did. Laying his head on my shoulder, in my lap, and just doing little things that friends wouldnt do.

 

I am perfectly willing to make the sacrifice, but he doesn't seem to want to let me. I know that part of it is that he doesn't want to lead me on, but I have told him I don't mind as long as he will keep an open mind...he still said he wanted to be friends. He says that what we have right now is less stressful for him than when we were together, although he also agrees that if we got back together we wouldn't fight anymore and could work it out. Makes no sense! Now I'm not sure if I should go to NC or try to have this conversation again and then if he is not receptive, tell him that we can't be friends and go NC.

[Green]

do the nc its a risk but its ur only chance, the good thing is that the nc will bring u closer to forgetting about him and moving on. Do the nc as though ur never going to see him again that way if he moves on by the time u do or dont find out u will have moved on urself... by the way welcom to LS I'm the self proclaimed horniest man alive

[eloquent]

Should I try to talk to him again before going NC? To suggest what shadowdog said, and if he is unreceptive tell him being friends isn't an option and go to NC?

 

I also wanted to add that I don't think he is being selfish or cowardly on purpose, because when i call him out for anything he does wrong he is really really apologetic. He's really immature at relationships and dealing with emotions, as indicated by his indecisiveness, so I think that might play a big part.

 

And thanks for the welcome, KMT! You guys are great!

[oppath]

I do think you should announce no contact initially, so I would give him one week and see how he acts towards you, but at the end of that week, I'd talk to him. If you don't tell him you need space to move on, and you just do it, he might freak out and say hurtful things later as a purely emotional response. This is really a sign that he does care, but you'd both feel bad afterwards. That can be avoided with a simple declaration and honest expression of your feelings. Email or a letter is too one sided. He won't have the chance to respond. To qwell any of your own what if's, I think it is important to give the other person a chance to participate in the conversation.

[Shadowdog36]

If you think it's not fixable at this point, then part of my separation would be that last conversation. I wouldn't come right out and tell him that you're cutting him out of your life, but I would give him that last chance to assert what he thinks he wants.

 

Again, keep in mind that if you decide to eliminate him from your life, don't expect a reconciliation. Don't expect him to come crawling back to you, a broken man. Fully expect that he will move on, just as you will. Make sure that's what you want, as it still doesn't sound that way to me.

[eloquent]

I can't go on with things being the way they are unless I have some sign from him that he is willing to meet me halfway. No matter how willing I am to work on the relationship, I can't force him to do the same. I'm going to talk to him in a few hours and tell him that being friends is no longer an option. I am sure he will say that he still does not want to try, and we will end up going to NC. As much as that sucks, I don't see any other way, and maybe I will be able to move on.

[eloquent]

I just talked to him...and said everything you explained, Shadowdog. He said he would call me later today to tell me how he felt after he thought it over. So I guess it's good I didn't get an immediate "no!" I'm still pretty sure he is going to give me the "i dont want to try again" speech...so we'll see.

[Shadowdog36]

No begging. No asking why. Make sure you stay strong if you don't get the answer you want. Tell him you respect his wishes, and good luck with school. No goodbyes. No promises to try again in a few months. Make sure you say very little if he's not willing to work it out with you.

 

If he is willing to try to fix this, you guys need to set some ground rules and boundaries that both of you will try to adhere to. Like I said, keep it flexible, but make sure both of you are comfortable with your level of interaction.

 

I hope this works out for you. Keep us posted.

[eloquent]

So he is doing the one thing I hoped he wouldn't do...he hasn't called at all. What the heck?! I know this means he's really thinking it through but part of me also feels like he isn't taking me seriously. He said he would call later today after he thought about it and texted me about 7 PM to tell me to watch this TV show he had talked about earlier...but after that, no call. Do I call and ask? I know this isn't him being too scared to reject me because he's already done that before. I think this is him still not knowing...anything I can do to speed up the process? I don't know if I should call or not! I don't want to pressure him, but at the same time, I'm back in this limbo stage of not knowing whether to move on or not...

[Shadowdog36]

You know what to do. You have your answer. If things cannot be as they were, and he's not willing to address the issue, you know what you need to do.

 

He's not putting you in limbo, you are. No responses, no replys, no interaction at all until he's willing to step up.

[eloquent]

still hasn't called...I'm assuming that means he is still trying to figure it out, because if it was a no he would've called. He's not afraid of rejecting me, as he's turned me down several times since we broke up, so I know he would'nt have a problem calling if he had decided. It is so tempting to call him and ask "is that a no or are you still thinking?" I'm sure this is a bad idea, so don't let me!!

[Shadowdog36]

Pushing for an immediate answer will only get you the 'wrong' one. If you seem like you're hanging on his every word, it will only make you appear desperate. Stay strong, and keep reminding yourself that this is you giving him one last chance at you. If he chooses to walk away, it's his loss.

[eloquent]

He called tonight, to "see how I was doing." He avoided talking about it until I asked if he had made a decision. He said "I guess...kinda" and then said he just wanted to be friends. He kept asking and asking why we couldn't still hang out and I had to explain several times that it wasn't fair to me and that I had to try to move on if he wasn't willing to work it out. He kept saying that if i ever needed anything I could call him, or if I ever needed anyone to talk to, and I told him that he wasn't that person for me anymore. He also kept asking if we could ride home together or see each other every once in a while. I told him not to call me unless it was to try again because I couldn't be friends with him. He sounded really really sad but then when I would say "don't be sad" he would say "What? I'm not sad."

 

I talked to his mom this morning and she said that for about the last month he has been shutting her out too. He is in a huge fight with his dad, and last night he was so short with his mom on the phone that she said when she hung up she started to cry because she felt so frustrated and upset with him. He is pushing away all the people he cares about the most...I don't know what his deal is. He used to be extremely affectionate and caring. I'm just glad that I got a final answer...and what I am the most sad about is losing the old him. This new person he has become is not someone I want in my life. This is so hard...