whichwayisup Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 I wish I had the power to convince him that the kids will be fine. But, you don't really know that. Noone does.
Kenzo Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 In today's world it is unrealistic to think that life will not fall back into place...I know that I live with a lot of guilt knowing now that my parents were not happy, trying to do what they thought was the right thing for me...that is the unconditional love between a parent and child! Kids these days are so caught up in their own worlds, activities, friends, etc. he would still be a huge part of their lives, maybe even more than he is now because of the circumstances...I wouldn't stop him from seeing his children...I want him to be HAPPY!
vanilla chai Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Kenzo, it takes two...He is as much to blame as her. You're only hearing one side of things and something tells me he probably isn't so sweet and innocent in their problems....I'm sure there are times HE is no prize either. That's the thing, you never know what goes on behind closed doors, and he isn't going to openly tell you in detail his part in the downfall in their marriage... I'm just sayin'.. Ita WWIU. Why is it always the wife that has a problem.
smokenmirrors Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 It's easy for the MM to always blame the wife, because quite frankly, why admit that he's a problem too? That would make him less golden to the OW. We all know MM do no wrong. Heck...they are living princes who practically walk on water, but are married to horrible horrible women, who just don't understand them or show them any affection. Their life is a total nightmare that they have to relive over and over and over again everytime he makes the decision to go home. It's not fair I tell you, these poor, poor men. It must suck to be completely pussy whipped by a wife you literally hate and can't wait to get away from. Only, wait, he never does leave. He always comes up with an excuse or ten.
pricillia Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 It's easy for the MM to always blame the wife, because quite frankly, why admit that he's a problem too? That would make him less golden to the OW. We all know MM do no wrong. Heck...they are living princes who practically walk on water, but are married to horrible horrible women, who just don't understand them or show them any affection. Their life is a total nightmare that they have to relive over and over and over again everytime he makes the decision to go home. It's not fair I tell you, these poor, poor men. It must suck to be completely pussy whipped by a wife you literally hate and can't wait to get away from. Only, wait, he never does leave. He always comes up with an excuse or ten. I just don't get what being Pussy whipped has to do with any of this... please elaborate Smoke... You have such a bad attitude about men why?
whichwayisup Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Ita WWIU. Why is it always the wife that has a problem. I don't understand what you are asking? What do you mean, why is it the wife that has a problem? To me, it just seems the MM is putting all the blame on the state of their marriage on his wife. Or the OW is making his wife out to be the bad guy which is why MM chose to cheat on his wife. Anyway, I don't understand what you are talking about referring to what I said..
scaredinlove Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Maybe you are right, he doens't love his wife, he doesn't have sex with her. And, together they put a huge effort in making it look like things are wonderful, but behind closed doors it's the opposite. Don't you think that their KIDS would feel that energy? Being out in public, seeing them look happy and into eachother, then once home - The distance happens, and they stay away from eachother? Come on...Open your eyes. YOU don't know what they do behind closed doors. And, do you really think the MM is going to be honest with you and tell you he has sex with his wife? Ofcourse not!!!! It's your life, but you're settling for the crap he serves you. You are the OW in his life, no holidays, birthdays, you don't get to be around his family, his friends...YOU are missing out on meeting a man who YOU can start a family with, and love for your own and not have to share. Hi Whatwayisup, my MM didin't had sex with his wife for four years during and now since she found out and our affair is agonizing he started having sex with her again and he told me when he started. What makes me think that her MM is probably telling the truth. Besides one of the first sings that your H is cheating is when he stops being interested in having sex with you.
maxicoo Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 It means Bull sh#@. sorry. dont want to put the bad word, but you get the picture.
NearlyThere Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 It means Bull sh#@. sorry. dont want to put the bad word, but you get the picture. Yeah it can mean that but on LS its more likely to mean Betrayed Spouse. Welcome to LS. NT
vanilla chai Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 I don't understand what you are asking? What do you mean, why is it the wife that has a problem? To me, it just seems the MM is putting all the blame on the state of their marriage on his wife. Or the OW is making his wife out to be the bad guy which is why MM chose to cheat on his wife. Anyway, I don't understand what you are talking about referring to what I said.. I meant that the mm always tells the ow that the wife doesn't do this or that and thats why the marriage is dead.
whichwayisup Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Oh I agree with you 100%. That is why it blows me away when I hear some say "my mm doesn't lie to me, he's honest - He doesn't have sex with his wife and he doesn't love her." 9/10 when an affair is found out, the MM usually hangs the OW out to dry and turns it around on her. Just like the lies he tells while being with the OW, how horrible his wife is....(I'm generalizing here, not directed at anyone in particular.)
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I think it makes me want HIM to leave more knowing that the future can be good for us, but with his parents going on their 50th ( I can only assume they're happy) and him having the perfect childhood, he wants to try like hell to provide the same for his kids. I wish I had the power to convince him that the kids will be fine. It doesn't change the fact that he is a great father and provider, those kids have more than they will ever need or want and actually that will probably hurt them more later in life...being sooooo spoiled! HE was distraught last night, the weekends kill us, he lives about an hour away, and we both have a very intense pain in our voices...I know he wants to "pull the trigger" as he has refered to it but he has to find the courage and and strengh...I mean let's face it, it's a lot easier to stay, and live the lie. My question to you-- does he ever ask or does he expect that you will wait around until his kids are older? My MM has flat out said that if I could wait a few years we will be together...I'm not waiting so to speak, I go out when the opportunity arises, but I feel that whenthat day comes and he comes to find me I would welcome him back with open arms...not that he deserves that...but he has stolen my heart! Sorry to hear about your Dad, Kenzo. My MM is the same as yours as far as the 'perfect childhood' he says he enjoyed. And his parents are still together too. That's exactly what he tells me about wanting to give his kids what he had: parents who were together, and a stable home. About 'helping him see that they will be fine whatever'... thing is that it's a risk for them as fathers to take, for their OWN satisfaction and happiness. And some men don't want to take that risk, and more specifically the risk of becoming a satellite as far as decision-making and so on in their own children's lives. I know this is poo-pooed on THIS board, but I think that's more because it's an easy attack on OW (and their MM) than anything else. Of course some fathers feel like that: YOURS did, right? And yes, it IS a lot easier to stay, and live the lie. Because that way no new challenges have to be faced, no real risks... no change. My MM hasn't asked me to wait in so many words. We have been round a cycle of trying to wait/make the affair work > this isn't working > OK I'll leave > heck I can't leave > not wanting to part (or going NC) > let's try to make the affair work... must have been 3 or 4 times now..? Each time it's about he can't leave the kids. Late last year (after a summer of NC) we had a long conversation about what would be a good time to leave? My point was that there isn't really a good time to get divorced, so why not now..? He couldn't fault the logic (yeah, but where does logic come into it..?) and between us we came up with the end of March 2007 as a sensible date for him to be leaving. Then, end of January, he went home to tell her... Monday morning came and he said: I can't do it. At first I thought... ok. I am out of ideas. I can't go NC again, can't seem to walk away... and I thought and thought... and it was during this time that I asked him when he thought he might be able to leave..? He said hmm maybe when youngest daughter is 16..? She's 10 now. I thought... OK let's try that... but the more I thought about it the more ridiculous it became to think of waiting that long, with the danger of being discovered, with not being able to introduce him to people in my family because of some stupid plot to pretend we'd never met before (in the future, when we'd have known each other a decade!). So... to that extent yes, he did kindof ask me to wait. But not in so many words. Anyway, he posted a thread on LS and asked for input to help us break out of this stupid situation. Most people said the same thing: If you don't love your wife, love 'frannie', etc. then get out now and start being fair with everyone. No one suggested we continue the affair (heh). In the light of that advice I told him: well, it's not just me who thinks this way, so either you follow that, or we're over. No more affair. Sooo... (making the thread all about me)... last week we wrote out a list of things he/we would have to face if he left now, and a similar list about not being together. It was really hard to think of things with the affair not being a fall-back option (shows how much we'd both become dependent on that as a way of avoiding doing anything...). Now that we've made a definite decision to not continue the affair everything looks different. Anyway, the latest is that he's looking into finances, a place for him to move out to, getting legal advice, and so on. There's no real time-limit on this (bearing in mind we still haven't reached March), but it needs to be continuing action and no slacking or settling back into a cosy affair again. It's hard, because I feel I'm pushing him, but I have to be out of this one way or another soon. And I have to ignore the noises of 'homewrecker' and the outrage on his thread that we're 'plotting' to end his marriage. Some way or another the 'right' thing has to happen... whatever that is. Sorry for the T/J
NightStarr8 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I don't think most people are capable of being in love with two people at the same time. I think they can be infatuated with one person and love someone else. They can care deeply for one person and be in love with another. If you're talking about love with commitment, passion and emotional intimacy, most people can only love one person at a time that way. If they love two people, only one is getting all three - commitment, passion and emotional intimacy. Approximately 20% of marriages are sexless. If a man says he isn't having sex with his wife, there's a good chance he's telling the truth. Surviving Infidelity had a thread on sex in marriage this past weekend and 10 spouses replied that their cheating spouses stopped all sex during the duration of the affair. Many of the affairs were long-term, well over an year. Eighteen spouses claim the sex stayed the same during the affair. Seven spouses said the sex was reduced (in some marriages drastically) and many of the spouses said they had to almost always initiate it - the cheating spouse wouldn't. With their little poll, in half of the marriages, sex was either reduced or non-existent. Sex has become a weapon in many marriages. It's often withheld by both spouses because of resentment.
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 In today's world it is unrealistic to think that life will not fall back into place...I know that I live with a lot of guilt knowing now that my parents were not happy, trying to do what they thought was the right thing for me...that is the unconditional love between a parent and child! Kids these days are so caught up in their own worlds, activities, friends, etc. he would still be a huge part of their lives, maybe even more than he is now because of the circumstances...I wouldn't stop him from seeing his children...I want him to be HAPPY! I know what you mean. I've said this to my MM over and over too. Only last week he said he was worried that he'd let things slide and not be the Dad he wanted to be if he wasn't there. And I said 'I won't let you!'. But it's easy for us to say, isn't it..?
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 It's easy for the MM to always blame the wife, because quite frankly, why admit that he's a problem too? That would make him less golden to the OW. We all know MM do no wrong. Heck...they are living princes who practically walk on water, but are married to horrible horrible women, who just don't understand them or show them any affection. Their life is a total nightmare that they have to relive over and over and over again everytime he makes the decision to go home. It's not fair I tell you, these poor, poor men. It must suck to be completely pussy whipped by a wife you literally hate and can't wait to get away from. Only, wait, he never does leave. He always comes up with an excuse or ten. Are you speaking from experience here, or is this just rhetoric..? As Kenzo and I have both said on this thread, our MM fully admit that they are just as much to blame for their poor marriages as their wives are.
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Approximately 20% of marriages are sexless. If a man says he isn't having sex with his wife, there's a good chance he's telling the truth. Surviving Infidelity had a thread on sex in marriage this past weekend and 10 spouses replied that their cheating spouses stopped all sex during the duration of the affair. Many of the affairs were long-term, well over an year. Eighteen spouses claim the sex stayed the same during the affair. Seven spouses said the sex was reduced (in some marriages drastically) and many of the spouses said they had to almost always initiate it - the cheating spouse wouldn't. With their little poll, in half of the marriages, sex was either reduced or non-existent. Sex has become a weapon in many marriages. It's often withheld by both spouses because of resentment. Thanks for posting that information. I wonder if it will be taken on board by the chanters of the 'MM lie about having sex' mantra..?
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I'd be curious to see a gender breakdown of that 20%. I can't help but to wonder if its the MW that stops the sex more often than the MM, given the nature of how men and women are in affairs. I know women tend to get more wrapped up emotionally, and men sexually. I can see how a MW who has a great emotional investment would not want to have sex with anyone except the primary partner (OM), and I can see why a MM who is having primarily a sexual affair would be able to continue having sex with his W. Now, what about the MW who is in it only for the sex, and the MM who is emotionally invested? Well, I guess that depends on the individual. Men can compartmentalize sex and love more easily than women, and therefore can more easily have sex with two women and be none the worse for it. I know there are exceptions to everything though. I don't doubt that there are MM who truly don't have sex with their wives, but I wouldn't put that at a very high percentage. I would think the MM who don't have sex with their wives are the ones whose wives have lost interest in sex in the first place. I wonder about the ones whose wives are still very sexually receptive, and still want sex on a regular basis. I would think the MM would have to do it - for two reasons. One, because he wants to, and two because if he stops he will bring suspicion on himself. I guess what it comes down to is the wife really. If she wants sex, she usually gets it (at least 80% of the time, according to the statistic I read in that earlier post). If she doesn't, then MM is more than happy to share that with his OW.
Kenzo Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I feel exactly the same way! I would make sure he had all the quality time he needed to avoid becoming just a weekend dad. I have not told him any of this, our relationship is on the new side but the intesity is out of control. He went to work, today, on a "holiday" to spend the entire day with me...long weekends are torture. So he is on his way here as I type, I am torn about how I feel about him coming here, I'm afraid we will just end up fighting... frannie, about my dad-thanks...worst time of my life...he was just too young...and as much as he was around he was also very absent (mentally) I think we would have had so much more of him if he had been happier. BTW, as far as I know my parents were not involved in affairs, just 'irreconcialable differences' so to speak. But now I have to ask...do you think you can wait even if it means another 6 years? I have thought about the fact that he asked me to wait until the kids were older and I really feel like I will...if I have too.
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I would think the MM who don't have sex with their wives are the ones whose wives have lost interest in sex in the first place. I wonder about the ones whose wives are still very sexually receptive, and still want sex on a regular basis. I would think the MM would have to do it - for two reasons. One, because he wants to, and two because if he stops he will bring suspicion on himself. I guess what it comes down to is the wife really. If she wants sex, she usually gets it (at least 80% of the time, according to the statistic I read in that earlier post). If she doesn't, then MM is more than happy to share that with his OW. I think you're probably right about that.
frannie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I feel exactly the same way! I would make sure he had all the quality time he needed to avoid becoming just a weekend dad. I have not told him any of this, our relationship is on the new side but the intesity is out of control. He went to work, today, on a "holiday" to spend the entire day with me...long weekends are torture. So he is on his way here as I type, I am torn about how I feel about him coming here, I'm afraid we will just end up fighting... frannie, about my dad-thanks...worst time of my life...he was just too young...and as much as he was around he was also very absent (mentally) I think we would have had so much more of him if he had been happier. BTW, as far as I know my parents were not involved in affairs, just 'irreconcialable differences' so to speak. But now I have to ask...do you think you can wait even if it means another 6 years? I have thought about the fact that he asked me to wait until the kids were older and I really feel like I will...if I have too. Sorry I can't remember... how new is your relationship..? Mine is 3 years old, although the first year was very sporadic and more of a friendship/EA. But I can understand you not having said all you want to say about 'if he divorces' and what about the kids. It's not an easy topic to bring up. Then again, my MM said really early on (3 months into knowing him) that he thought we shouldn't proceed with anything because he realised that while his relationship with his wife was over, he couldn't leave the children. Then he 'ended things' with me and we barely talked for months. Anyway, that's ancient history now. My Dad died five and a half years ago and it still feels recent, if you know what I mean. Then again my Dad was in his seventies... even so I still feel he didn't live long enough, so I know how you must feel. Sorry. As for waiting another six years. Well, yes I could. BUT... I'm not going to. Because on balance, I don't think it would be worth the risk. Not to me, if he decided he couldn't do it after all that time (murder would be on my mind!), not to them, in case it all came to light anyway and was ten times worse for everyone. And the idea of having to pretend to everyone that I had only recently met him when we will have known each other a decade..? Lunacy. Added to that, it's just too stupid to go living half a life... for what..? When he could leave now and it all be on the way to mended in five years. So no, I'm not waiting.
Kenzo Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 We're together about 5 months, never sporadic, never just friendship. We jumped in both feet, fast! I had known him for about 6 months before we went on our first date, but I didn't know him. He was just another customer, but on that first date it took about 30 seconds for me to realize he was the ONE. And well he just left after the ceremonial 4 hour visit (it's always 4 hours) and I feel like someone stepped on my heart, I tried to talk about things but he kept acting silly and saying how glad he was to be here and what great time he was having & we did, we always have such an amazing time-but...now he's gone... Promises of an over night on wed. b/c the W and kids are going skiing with another family. I can't just live for these stolen moments...yet I do...WTF is wrong with me????
Kenzo Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Also-whether it's 50, 70, or 110 losing a parent is the wosrt thing that could happen... I am sorry for your loss.
NightStarr8 Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 I'd be curious to see a gender breakdown of that 20%. I can't help but to wonder if its the MW that stops the sex more often than the MM, given the nature of how men and women are in affairs. The majority were men who were cheating. You can check the thread out here: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?fid=2 Men can compartmentalize sex and love more easily than women, and therefore can more easily have sex with two women and be none the worse for it. I think this used to be true, but I think more men are more emotionally vested in extramarital relationships than they have been in the past, while women are becoming more interested in friends with benefits relationships outside of their marriages. I know there are exceptions to everything though. I don't doubt that there are MM who truly don't have sex with their wives, but I wouldn't put that at a very high percentage. I think you would be surprised at the number of marriages that are sexless. I'm always surprised at friends who tell me they haven't had sex with their spouses in two or more years and the number that have sex less than five times per year. I would think the MM who don't have sex with their wives are the ones whose wives have lost interest in sex in the first place. Recent research shows married women are more likely to miss sex if it's absent from a marriage than men. Google. You'll be surprised at what you find. I wonder about the ones whose wives are still very sexually receptive, and still want sex on a regular basis. I would think the MM would have to do it - for two reasons. One, because he wants to, and two because if he stops he will bring suspicion on himself. Once again, google. Women tend to think their husbands have erectile dysfunction, depression, etc... before they consider an affair. Also, the sex lives have usually deteriorated long before the man has an affair, so the lack of sex isn't noticeable. If she doesn't, then MM is more than happy to share that with his OW. If your belief is that affairs are based primarily on sex, then yes - he's probably happy to get it elsewhere. The majority of long term affairs though are not about sex. They're about emotion, which end up being expressed sexually.
frannie Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 And well he just left after the ceremonial 4 hour visit (it's always 4 hours) and I feel like someone stepped on my heart, I tried to talk about things but he kept acting silly and saying how glad he was to be here and what great time he was having & we did, we always have such an amazing time-but...now he's gone... Promises of an over night on wed. b/c the W and kids are going skiing with another family. I can't just live for these stolen moments...yet I do...WTF is wrong with me???? Thanks for your words about my Dad. Having a good time right now is OK... but... when a serious conversation needs to happen it needs to happen. And he's avoiding the issue. What's 'wrong' with you..? You're letting him dictate things... why..? What are you scared will happen if you tell him how you feel, and ask awkward questions..? If it's like me and how I've been in the past with MM, then it was about this: if I push him, he'll say no, or stuff I don't want to hear, or something that will make it clear this is just an affair... and then where will that leave us..? Why don't we just spend more time getting to know each other and leave those questions for later on..? (cop out for me, my head in the sand, I freely admit, and I wish I hadn't done it in retrospect).
frannie Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 I think you would be surprised at the number of marriages that are sexless. I'm always surprised at friends who tell me they haven't had sex with their spouses in two or more years and the number that have sex less than five times per year. I've never had a problem believing my MM when he says he doesn't have sex with his wife. One of the reasons is that I've been in a similar situation myself. And I've read plenty about sexless marriages... they are most certainly out there!
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