Author Crash Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 WWIU, Thanks for all your replies. Of course it is all making sense to me. I just waited so long for him, have cared about him so long. I tried to stop, several times. It's not just an emotional affair. We are intimate. He has been trying to reduce it to just friends who have sex (and also care about and miss each other). I think he is confused. I know we're more than friends. The difference to me between friends who have sex and more than friends is that with friends who have sex, if neither is involved in another relationship and there are no obstacles they are STILL just friends who have sex. He has admitted that if we'd met under different circumstances, i.e., he wasn't married, things would be totally different with us. If things were going consistently it would be worth it to me for now. But if he's going to be hot and cold like this every week, then I won't be able to take it.
Author Crash Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 So why do you accept his crappy behavior? Why don't you stop seeing him and get on with your life? There are plenty of men out there who wouldn't treat you like this. If he's done this before, he'll do it again...obviously, as he's doing it now even though he said he wouldn't. If it's only been a few months, how can you really love him? Why not get out now when it's easier? Or do you want to put up with this for years, getting nothing out of a relationship that makes you feel bad? No, it won't last for years like this, that's for sure. I do really love him - I don't want to get into the timeline but I think I really fell for him even before anything physical happened and even that first happened almost 5 months ago.
Author Crash Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 Then stop being friends with him. By putting up with his behavior, sticking around and waiting for his moods to pass or when HE feels like giving you a call, you're giving him complete POWER over you, your feelings and your life. "My friends don't treat me this way." Then, change it so he doesn't treat you that way. Do you plan on being his OW forever? Do you feel one day he'll leave his wife (and kids if they have any together) for you? I tried not giving that power by telling him that I am not going to accept certain behavior. Maybe this is a test. Maybe he's just pushing me to end it. I don't think he believes I will. No, he won't leave them and I don't want him to hurt his family like that anyway. I just wanted to be near him so much I was willing to settle for spending SOME time with him as opposed to NO time with him - at least until I started to feel like I needed more and I knew I'd have to move on eventually. But he's pushing it by treating me this way. Maybe he's doing it intentionally so I'll end it.
whichwayisup Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 You deserve better and more. Unfortunately this guy, this MM, isn't capable of giving himself ALL to you. You're settling for table scraps, seeing him when it's convienant for him. You need more from him and he knows this and that is why he's backing off of you. He wants a plain and simple affair with you, no strings attached. I hope you get fed up with him and his treatment of you, and end it. Also, are you prepared for the fallout if his wife finds out? Imagine how she is going to feel and react...And their kids. (Do they have kids?) You two met at the wrong time in life. That is how you can look at this. Then slowly try to get into NC (no contact) mode with him, heal and move on. If you don't do that, you will fall deeper and be more hurt. Just go read some other threads in this section by OW.
Author Crash Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 WWIU, It's not the first time I've been involved with a MM but it's the first time I've loved one. Here's the deal - when it first happened, he confessed to his wife, ended it with me to work on his M. Then started it up with me again. I was astounded, to say the least. If she found out this time he would be in deep sh**. Yes, there are kids. That is the reason he is more limited in his time and everything. I agree he can't give me all but I thought he'd give me some of what I need - things you can only get from being with someone you love.
puddleofmud Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 It sounds as if you are awaiting that every time he goes "stealth" for it to possibly "be over"? Fact is he MUST be "stealth" as these are the parameters of the relationship and there are NO other options. Only you can decide if that is acceptable. You will have to decide if you wish to continue to live this way in order to have this relationship. Though he may have given a promise that he would not "end" things via this way--it would seem that you do not trust his word... Or you would not be so concerned about lack of communication. Again, it is up to you to decide to trust or not, accept or not via what is before you.
stillafool Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 You mentioned "he is confused". No you are confused. He wears you like a "sunday hat". Only when he wants you and not often. When he doesn't want you, he doesn't want to hear or talk to you. He is a selfish person who only thinks of himself. That is why he is cheating on his wife. When he feels guilty he does not want to see or hear from you, it reminds him that he is a piece of sh** and he can't stand the guilt. You mentioned he is not the first MM you have been involved with. Maybe you should see a therapist and find out why you don't feel you deserve better. You say the first time his w found out he ended with you to work on his M? Well, that's what is in the back of his mind and he probably wants to do right by his w. Why don't you help him by leaving him and his family alone and let them work it out since you said you don't want him to leave them?
outofdarkness Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I also wonder if because he's cheating on his wife and lying to her, he gets some relief from his guilt by treating me like crud. He would deny it, but I wonder. A couple of thoughts..First, when I filed for D before My CH and I reconciled, my attorney said quote "Nothing is fair but the State Fair"..I have often thought about this saying. Secondly, my H would spend time w/ one of his OW's and come home and treat us poorly..that's an understatement actually, but I we've reconciled and I don't want to keep going back in time..I am guessing that this applies to the OW as well, especially if he has more then one? Just trying to share what my experiences were.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 POM, I don't care about the "stealth". It's just that last time something like this happened, it seemed like he was punishing me for not acting exactly the way he wanted and this seems to me like the same type of action. He didn't like something I did, or misinerpreted something or decided he didn't want to talk to me so he's punishing me for stepping out and having the nerve to expect a lousy phone call. That's why I'm upset. I'm like the bad dog. stillafool, yes I am being taken advantage of - I thought he and I had settled that a couple of weeks ago. Apparently not. As far as him trying to do right by his wife, she didn't "find out". He told her because he panicked. As far as us getting involved again, he initiated this and he can end it anytime. I haven't been ready to end it and haven't wanted it to end. While I don't want him to hurt his wife, I guess I'm not so noble as to end it for her sake. I will end it when I am ready, or he'll end it when he is ready - both of which may be within the next day or two! Also, just because I've been involved with mm a couple of times doesn't mean I don't think I deserve better. A full time single guy isn't necessarily better. The other time I was young and it was just a physical attraction. I wasn't looking for anything full time. And I wasn't looking for this either. OOD - When he spends time with me, I imagine that he doesn't treat his family badly, but it did cross my mind that maybe he had a really nice VD with his wife/family and that is why he reverted to treating me like crap again.
puddleofmud Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Sorry, hun, but there is NO EXCUSE for any one treating you like "crap".
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 Sorry, hun, but there is NO EXCUSE for any one treating you like "crap". Oh, believe me, I wasn't saying it excused him!! I just thought maybe it was one of the reasons. I'm really turned off and disgusted by the way he's treating me.
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Also, just because I've been involved with mm a couple of times doesn't mean I don't think I deserve better. A full time single guy isn't necessarily better. The other time I was young and it was just a physical attraction. I wasn't looking for anything full time. And I wasn't looking for this either. I would just hope you learned afew things from your past experiences.... Plus, you're older now and you're hurting more. Hate to say it, but you're playing with fire...Getting involved with another woman's husband, whether or not he started the affair or not, there is no happy ending for anybody. Atleast you if are involved with a single guy, only TWO people get hurt. You and him. The situation you're in now, innocent people get hurt. His wife and his children.
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 OOD - When he spends time with me, I imagine that he doesn't treat his family badly, but it did cross my mind that maybe he had a really nice VD with his wife/family and that is why he reverted to treating me like crap again. He does this because you ALLOW him to do this to you. You keep on coming back for more.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 He does this because you ALLOW him to do this to you. You keep on coming back for more. Like I said, I thought we had a talk that straightened it out - that I wasn't allowing it, that the talk had made it clear I wasn't going to allow it. He either didn't listen, didn't care or believe me, or believed me and is pushing me into ending it.
whichwayisup Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 So, if he is pushing you to end it (let's just say that is what he's trying to do) why DON'T you end it and see what happens? The worst thing that could happen I guess is, he's OK with your choice to end it...Even though (to be honest) it would be the best thing for you - Even though you can't see that yet.
norajane Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Like I said, I thought we had a talk that straightened it out - that I wasn't allowing it, that the talk had made it clear I wasn't going to allow it. He either didn't listen, didn't care or believe me, or believed me and is pushing me into ending it. It doesn't really matter why he's treating you like crap. He IS treating you that way. Take control and end it yourself. You don't need to wait until he does it.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 So, if he is pushing you to end it (let's just say that is what he's trying to do) why DON'T you end it and see what happens? The worst thing that could happen I guess is, he's OK with your choice to end it...Even though (to be honest) it would be the best thing for you - Even though you can't see that yet. It's kind of hard to end it when I can't even contact him and he won't call me! I may not see him until Tuesday. I don't know if he's working on Monday and who knows if he will be avoiding me (although he swears he does not do that). Anyway, regardless of when I see/talk to him, I am considering ending it. I started writing an email telling him I'm sick of his bs but he also won't get that until he goes to work either.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 It doesn't really matter why he's treating you like crap. He IS treating you that way. Take control and end it yourself. You don't need to wait until he does it. I know - I'm really not waiting for him to do it - I just have no way to contact him. If I could have gotten this resolved one way or another today I would have! I might not have a chance until Tuesday or later. Who knows.
DepressedWaiting Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Crash, Why don't you hunt him down via a pay phone. I used to do this to my MM when he used to not answer his phone nor return my calls for 3 or 4 days in a row (it hurt like h*ll). This was a long time ago though and only happened a few times right after we had gotten into a fight... and no longer happens. If you have his cell number, I'd just call him from a pay phone... that's what I did and it worked.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 Crash, Why don't you hunt him down via a pay phone. I used to do this to my MM when he used to not answer his phone nor return my calls for 3 or 4 days in a row (it hurt like h*ll). This was a long time ago though and only happened a few times right after we had gotten into a fight... and no longer happens. If you have his cell number, I'd just call him from a pay phone... that's what I did and it worked. I'm not going to do anything like that. He'd love that - then he can say I'm obsessed with him. He can go to hell. I also don't have his cell number. I wrote him one short email he won't even read until next week saying I was confused that he didn't call back - I thought everything was fine. Part of the reason I think he didn't bother to call me is to get me into a tailspin. Well, I'm upset, and it's hard to concentrate, but I'm trying to get a handle on it and make a decision on what to say and what to do when I have the opportunity.
frannie Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 POM, I don't care about the "stealth". It's just that last time something like this happened, it seemed like he was punishing me for not acting exactly the way he wanted and this seems to me like the same type of action. He didn't like something I did, or misinerpreted something or decided he didn't want to talk to me so he's punishing me for stepping out and having the nerve to expect a lousy phone call. That's why I'm upset. I'm like the bad dog. stillafool, yes I am being taken advantage of - I thought he and I had settled that a couple of weeks ago. Apparently not. As far as him trying to do right by his wife, she didn't "find out". He told her because he panicked. As far as us getting involved again, he initiated this and he can end it anytime. I haven't been ready to end it and haven't wanted it to end. While I don't want him to hurt his wife, I guess I'm not so noble as to end it for her sake. I will end it when I am ready, or he'll end it when he is ready - both of which may be within the next day or two! Crash, I just want to say that you seem to have your head screwed on as far as this MM is concerned. Yes, he is treating you as you say in this first paragraph. He wants you well and truly dancing to his tune. And no matter what others may say, OW don't have to, and don't in practice, accept that kind of behaviour from their MM. OW don't have to accept crumbs, feel like their second-best, or jump through hoops because they're 'just' the OW. Your MM is behaving unnacceptably to you, why would you want to stay involved with him, even if you love him? Secondly, well done for saying this: you will end it when you need to, on your terms. I think it's somewhat unrealistic of people to suggest you end an affair because of someone else's hurt. If a man (or, for that matter a woman) is prepared to hurt his own wife (husband), and possibly his children, then how can it be expected that an OW/OM will act with any more love or care towards them..? Yes, it would be a wonderfully altruistic thing to do, but a realistic expectation..? No. Sorry for the slight thread-jack to state my point of view rather than offer you any further help, but I think you know what you need to do. Also, if you want to end it, you can end it in your own mind right now, and break the news to him later.
LucreziaBorgia Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 1. I thought we had an understanding. 2. I have no way to get in touch and he obviously is avoiding me. 3. He promised me he would NOT avoid me for any reason! 1. I think you may have a bit of a misunderstanding. MM keep OW because they are convenient. As soon as they are not convenient, and start wanting more than the MM is willing or able to give - they start backing away. Why? Because unlike single guys, MM have more to lose. When an OW comes on strong (and understand that what seems like for you a simple matter of wanting to contact him translates for him into 'coming on strong'), the MM panics because he starts to see the OW as a threat to his family and marriage. How does he handle this threat? By running away. When he feels that it is 'safe' again, he will come back. 2. He is avoiding you, because he perceives you as a threat right now. As soon as things are cooled down, and he is not so skittish, he will probably be back. If you want him to come back, you have to stop presenting behaviors that he sees as 'threatening' - in other words, stop trying to contact him. Back off. Way off. Let him come to you. If you try, in any way shape or form to run toward him, he will run away. Back off, stand still and wait. He may be back, he may not be. That is entirely up to him. 3. Beware promises from a MM. They only promise what they can afford to at a given time. If the circumstances change, that 'promise' isn't worth the amount of breath spent saying the words.
Guest Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 and realized he wasn't messing around anymore with the OW, she wasn't worth it. What did you expect? To be treated like a queen? This is the bargain OWs get when they start messing with a MM, you can have no expectations and you reallly can't be upset when they DO come to their senses and leave you behind to make it work with their wives, after making a HORRIBLE mistake with you. FIND A SINGLE GUY, UNLESS YOU ARE MARRIED YOURSELF. HE'S PROBABLY LOOKING FOR ANOTHER JOB RIGHT NOW TO GET THE HELL AWAY FROM YOU. they may dump the other woman dear but its usually just to move on to another...i have known a lot of cheaters who dump op's and its rarely to make it work with the wife...cheaters cheat...its what they do...your rage is misdirected
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 Crash, I just want to say that you seem to have your head screwed on as far as this MM is concerned. Yes, he is treating you as you say in this first paragraph. He wants you well and truly dancing to his tune. And no matter what others may say, OW don't have to, and don't in practice, accept that kind of behaviour from their MM. OW don't have to accept crumbs, feel like their second-best, or jump through hoops because they're 'just' the OW. Your MM is behaving unnacceptably to you, why would you want to stay involved with him, even if you love him? Secondly, well done for saying this: you will end it when you need to, on your terms. I think it's somewhat unrealistic of people to suggest you end an affair because of someone else's hurt. If a man (or, for that matter a woman) is prepared to hurt his own wife (husband), and possibly his children, then how can it be expected that an OW/OM will act with any more love or care towards them..? Yes, it would be a wonderfully altruistic thing to do, but a realistic expectation..? No. Sorry for the slight thread-jack to state my point of view rather than offer you any further help, but I think you know what you need to do. Also, if you want to end it, you can end it in your own mind right now, and break the news to him later. Thank you. I don't want to stay with him if this is how it's going to be. I am hurt and upset but I am also really angry and insulted. I am trying to come to terms with ending it in my own mind. It's hard because of all the different emotions coursing through me at any given moment. But I'm working on it.
Author Crash Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 1. I think you may have a bit of a misunderstanding. MM keep OW because they are convenient. As soon as they are not convenient, and start wanting more than the MM is willing or able to give - they start backing away. Why? Because unlike single guys, MM have more to lose. When an OW comes on strong (and understand that what seems like for you a simple matter of wanting to contact him translates for him into 'coming on strong'), the MM panics because he starts to see the OW as a threat to his family and marriage. How does he handle this threat? By running away. When he feels that it is 'safe' again, he will come back. 2. He is avoiding you, because he perceives you as a threat right now. As soon as things are cooled down, and he is not so skittish, he will probably be back. If you want him to come back, you have to stop presenting behaviors that he sees as 'threatening' - in other words, stop trying to contact him. Back off. Way off. Let him come to you. If you try, in any way shape or form to run toward him, he will run away. Back off, stand still and wait. He may be back, he may not be. That is entirely up to him. 3. Beware promises from a MM. They only promise what they can afford to at a given time. If the circumstances change, that 'promise' isn't worth the amount of breath spent saying the words. I agree with everything you said and it was very well said too. One thing I want to clarify though is that I haven't been trying to contact him incessantly. The following all took place in the span of a couple of hours: I tried to talk to him - and when that didn't work I waited to try to talk to him or give him a message - and when that didn't work I left a message with someone. And that's what he's perceiving as the big, gigantic threat. He's an infant. It pisses me off that he's acting like this and it pisses me off that he's off at home this weekend exaggerating the whole damn thing without having bothered to communicate about it.
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