Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I'm sorry it's a little long. We've been together for 24 years and married for 15. Have 3 children together. Found out last April that my husband's been having lengthy phone calls with another woman across the US, he claimed that she was going through some tough times and he was just there to lend an ear. Knowing that he loves helping people, I took it for just that(naive on my part). I did ask him to stop and he agreed to, as he can use the time spend talking to her for his family. Come to find out a few days before Thanksgiving, he hasn't stopped talking to her. In fact, she send a cell phone to his office so that they can talk without my knowledge. I did notice he was more distant, hard to reach by office, cell or blackberry, but he works all kinds of crazy hours, and I know he wouldn't hurt me so I didn't pay too much attention to it. After he confessed, he told me that he hasn't been happy in our marriage for years, because I don't take his needs and wants into consideration. He feels caged in and unable to do the things he enjoys without being "attacked" by me. He tells me he has strong feelings for her and that he was going to leave our family and move her and her child here since he can find happiness with her. To make a long story short (is it too late?), after lots of tears shed, we decided to work on our marriage, he sent the cell phone back( at my request), said goodbye to her(again, my request), even went to see MC, but I still had this feeling that he's not in it 100%. We talked about compromising but he said all he can do is to not have wants and needs. Basically he'll just work and come home, and doesn't want any part of socializing because that'll lead to questions, and he doesn't want to be interrogated. So Tues. night we were talking about our relationship as directed by MC and I asked him if he's had any contact with the OW and he just looked blankly at me in silence. Well, he's been talking to her again. She's been calling his office phone and ultimately sent the phone to him 2 wks later(days after X'mas). He said that he missed not talking to her those 2 wks and he couldn't concentrate on our relationship. Now, he's saying that he only agreed to work on our marriage because it's the "right" thing to do, and he loves me and loves her at the same time and just don't know what to do. He's afraid to recommit to our relationship because he doesn't want history repeating itself. I know what I have to do, but I'm scared to death. He's shattered my entire world! Thank you for reading.
BeenAround_N_Back Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 it does not seem like he is putting enough effort to make the marraige work. It looks like he is still attached to the other woman.... he is being extremely selfish right now. only thinking about himself. has he wondered or thought what your kids would think of his actions? What if you guys get divorced, can he look your children in the eye and say that the reason the marriage did not work is because of him and that he never told their mother how unhappy he was that they could work it out?
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 how this would affect the children. And his reply was that the kids will be ok and they might even benefit from this, because when he's not in a caged relationship then he'll be a much happier person and the kids will get to see the real him. Which is a bunch of BS. Our oldest already does not respect him for what he's done to me. As far as telling the kids, he said that "we would start off by telling them how much we love and that the love for them will never change. But Daddy just can't love Mommy the way she wants to be loved". Well of course I objected to the last statement, I mean it's not me, it's the fact he's cheated that we can't be together. I would never not let him see his kids but I don't know if they'll want to see him.
norajane Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 What are these needs and wants he has that aren't being filled in his marriage?
whichwayisup Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I don't think he's really ready to end with the OW. It seems they were in contact the whole time you two were trying to fix the marriage. How on earth is your marriage even going to work if he won't let her go? He needs to continue MC with you, as well as some individual counselling on his own. HE needs to find out why he chose to cheat on you, instead of facing the problems at home. He CHOSE not to talk to you about how he was feeling.....And, now, he's got feelings for someone else and isn't sure if he can live without her. Seems like he has been used to having two women in his life...Which is why together you chose to fix the marriage or end it. It's very unfair and selfish of him to keep seeing and talking to the OW behind your back. He hasn't shown you ANY real remorse from what you've said. What is it that YOU want. Forget him right now. Do you love him? Can you forgive him and learn to trust him again IF he's willing and able to earn your love, respect and faith again?
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 ARRRGGGHHHH! This is really too bad, because he's busting up ALL of your lives based on this and stat say it will NEVER work. Limerence is powerful stuff. There is a site called MarriageBuilders.com with an awful lot of information but I would direct you to one of the articles, and maybe someone could help me out here, I THINK that it is called the three stages or states of mind in marriage. Also some of the things on infidelity may help you understand more. One of the p osters on LS - LADYJANE - seems to know an awful lot about this, perhaps she will chime in. I'm so very sorry for you.
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 What are these needs and wants he has that aren't being filled in his marriage? Well, he says he likes to have experiences and not material things, which I can understand, for example, he wanted to take the kids to Australia and I wanted an inground pool instead, so I didn't fight me on it and I got the pool. But my thought was that the children were too young and that trip wouldn't be that memorable for them. But all and all there was a lot of things that he gave up by not talking it out with me. And I'm used to him giving me so much that I just figure he was ok with my decision. So basically I didn't listen and respect his wishes.
silktricks Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 oh baby, I feel so bad for you. It doesn't sound like he wants to give up the OW, so you really have only one choice yourself. You need to force him to see what it will be like without YOU in his life. I'm sorry, but you need to tell him he must make a choice. You or her. This isn't about him doing the right thing or not the right thing, because it involves more than just him. You need to do what's right for you, and I know that you don't want only half a husband. But you also need to go into that place knowing that you may, in the end, lose. The odds are against it, but the chance is there. Regardless, though, you can't enable him to keep both of you. (You also need to get yourself into individual counselling, ASAP.) He's not the only person here who's got choices, my dear. You have some choices to make as well.
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 He CHOSE not to talk to you about how he was feeling.....And, now, he's got feelings for someone else and isn't sure if he can live without her. He said he didn't feel comfortable talking to me about his feelings and that I would have blown up, so another words an excuse. He hasn't shown you ANY real remorse from what you've said. No, he hasn't shown any remorse, he just says that he feels bad that he hurt my feelings and that wasn't his intention, but didn't ask for any forgiveness. The problem is that I do love him, but I just don't think he has it in him to want our marriage back.
norajane Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Time to take your power back, Guest. It is unacceptable to stay in a marriage with a man who refuses to give up another woman. Why would you allow that? First, find yourself a good lawyer and find out what your rights are in a divorce. Put the paperwork in motion. Tell your weasly little husband, fine, you want to be with your OW, then you have no business being in this marriage, because I don't want a lying, cheating man in my house. And tell him he must pack his bags and get out by nightfall. Once he does, get the locks changed. You need to force him to make a decision. He needs to see what it is like when he is out on his own. He's currently making decisions from within the safety and comfort of your home and your love. He needs to make them from out in the cold. If he runs to the OW, then good riddance - then you know that's what he's wanted all along. If he crawls back, don't make it easy for him. He's hurt you terribly and you should be angry, not accommodating.
outofdarkness Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 I'm sorry it's a little long. We've been together for 24 years and married for 15. Have 3 children together. Found out last April that my husband's been having lengthy phone calls with another woman across the US, he claimed that she was going through some tough times and he was just there to lend an ear. Knowing that he loves helping people, I took it for just that(naive on my part). I did ask him to stop and he agreed to, as he can use the time spend talking to her for his family. Come to find out a few days before Thanksgiving, he hasn't stopped talking to her. In fact, she send a cell phone to his office so that they can talk without my knowledge. I did notice he was more distant, hard to reach by office, cell or blackberry, but he works all kinds of crazy hours, and I know he wouldn't hurt me so I didn't pay too much attention to it. After he confessed, he told me that he hasn't been happy in our marriage for years, because I don't take his needs and wants into consideration. He feels caged in and unable to do the things he enjoys without being "attacked" by me. He tells me he has strong feelings for her and that he was going to leave our family and move her and her child here since he can find happiness with her. To make a long story short (is it too late?), after lots of tears shed, we decided to work on our marriage, he sent the cell phone back( at my request), said goodbye to her(again, my request), even went to see MC, but I still had this feeling that he's not in it 100%. We talked about compromising but he said all he can do is to not have wants and needs. Basically he'll just work and come home, and doesn't want any part of socializing because that'll lead to questions, and he doesn't want to be interrogated. So Tues. night we were talking about our relationship as directed by MC and I asked him if he's had any contact with the OW and he just looked blankly at me in silence. Well, he's been talking to her again. She's been calling his office phone and ultimately sent the phone to him 2 wks later(days after X'mas). He said that he missed not talking to her those 2 wks and he couldn't concentrate on our relationship. Now, he's saying that he only agreed to work on our marriage because it's the "right" thing to do, and he loves me and loves her at the same time and just don't know what to do. He's afraid to recommit to our relationship because he doesn't want history repeating itself. I know what I have to do, but I'm scared to death. He's shattered my entire world! Thank you for reading. My H had an OW like the one you described....She just wouldn't take no for an answer...He would tell her and write her; in my presence, not to call , e mail, etc..She would wait for a time, until I "settled down about it all", and then start calling his office, etc again...He was afraid to resist b/c he didn't want her revealing all the sordid details about their A to me and our kids...I know this b/c I have spoken to her twice and each time she was rude, degrading and cruel to me. Some people, no matter what group of people you're dealing w/, ow, mm, w, m, etc...are just jerks! His main OW was respectful and decent to me...Besides the fact that she cheated w/ my H for 10 years, and it IS a two way street, she at least treated me well when D day came along. The one I mentioned about was just awful!!! You get pschos in every group!!! I don't know if they still have any contact with each other, but I know from talking to her that she would not give up that easily. Also, he had told her all sorts of lies about me and my situation...She was not the sort of person who could see through that, even after actually talking to me..She believed what she wanted to believe. She even moved to our home state!! What a b----!!! I'm sorry for your pain, I know how it feels. Someone on LS just recently suggested to me to do my own thing and let him persue ME!!! This is a switch, but one that she's right, is just sort of human nature. We want what we have to persue....That which is exciting and different. I'm going to make an effort to put these suggestions to good use, and see if it makes a difference. If nothing else, it will help me continue to build MY self confidence and independence...Good Luck and keep coming bck to LS for advice, etc..Infidelity is a great forum, but also, I have found the OW forum to be very helpful and most of the posters are so compassionate and eager to help...
Mr. Lucky Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Our oldest already does not respect him for what he's done to me. As far as telling the kids, he said that "we would start off by telling them how much we love and that the love for them will never change. But Daddy just can't love Mommy the way she wants to be loved". Well of course I objected to the last statement, I mean it's not me, it's the fact he's cheated that we can't be together. I would never not let him see his kids but I don't know if they'll want to see him. I am sorry for your pain. However, you are making a mistake if you involve your children in the details of your relationship to the point where they don't respect or want to see their father. They already have a tremendous amount on their plate (trust me, kids sense and figure out alot more than we give them credit for) and your only thought for them should be to protect them from the coming storm. Even though my ex-wife was a lying, cheating scumbag, I never told our son anything other than "Mommy is a wonderful person and she loves you very much". And trust me, it took nearly superhuman effort at times to just leave it at that. Just my thoughts about your unfortunate situation... Mr. Lucky
cl2d Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Just wanted to say thank you for all of your comments and advice. I really appreciate them. It's very hard to let go, because I do love him and know that he loves me. We're still very friendly and close to each other. It just hurts to know that he loves someone else too. Is it possible to love more than 1 person? As far as the kids, Mr. Lucky, I would never tell the kids anything other than that their father is a good person and that he loves them very much. Outofdarkness, I have tried letting him persue me, actually a book by James Dobson called "Love must be Tough" is a great guide for that. It did work for me back in Nov. when I first found out that he'd cheated. It took him all but 3 days to come back to me, he just couldn't stand not talking to me and not knowing where I've been. But I'm afraid he fears that our relationship will return to the way it was. I've been a little too controlling and took him for granted and he felt like he was being caged in for years, which I can understand his fear. But I've been that way for as long as he's known me. still, no excuse. I'll definitely check out OW forum. Thank you!
Trialbyfire Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Time to take your power back, Guest. It is unacceptable to stay in a marriage with a man who refuses to give up another woman. Why would you allow that? First, find yourself a good lawyer and find out what your rights are in a divorce. Put the paperwork in motion. Tell your weasly little husband, fine, you want to be with your OW, then you have no business being in this marriage, because I don't want a lying, cheating man in my house. And tell him he must pack his bags and get out by nightfall. Once he does, get the locks changed. You need to force him to make a decision. He needs to see what it is like when he is out on his own. He's currently making decisions from within the safety and comfort of your home and your love. He needs to make them from out in the cold. If he runs to the OW, then good riddance - then you know that's what he's wanted all along. If he crawls back, don't make it easy for him. He's hurt you terribly and you should be angry, not accommodating. The very best advice yet. cl2d, listen to this. You may still love him which is no surprise but he's already emotionally unreachable. Emotional affairs are very damaging because they are complete fantasy. You cannot compete with a mutable fantasy.
cl2d Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Tell your weasly little husband, fine, you want to be with your OW, then you have no business being in this marriage, because I don't want a lying, cheating man in my house. And tell him he must pack his bags and get out by nightfall. Once he does, get the locks changed. I tried, he said as long as he's paying for the house, he's not leaving.
norajane Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 So what does he intend to do? Stay with you and still keep talking with the OW? TALK TO A LAWYER.
cl2d Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 That's the situation right now. We've been to MC, and he insists that he still can't make up his mind b/c he loves us both, but will soon, as he didn't want to drag this out any longer. I'm just so afraid to lose him, the house and everything we've worked for. I know I shouldn't tolerate this behavior, but I can't let him go.
outofdarkness Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Just wanted to say thank you for all of your comments and advice. I really appreciate them. It's very hard to let go, because I do love him and know that he loves me. We're still very friendly and close to each other. It just hurts to know that he loves someone else too. Is it possible to love more than 1 person? As far as the kids, Mr. Lucky, I would never tell the kids anything other than that their father is a good person and that he loves them very much. Outofdarkness, I have tried letting him persue me, actually a book by James Dobson called "Love must be Tough" is a great guide for that. It did work for me back in Nov. when I first found out that he'd cheated. It took him all but 3 days to come back to me, he just couldn't stand not talking to me and not knowing where I've been. But I'm afraid he fears that our relationship will return to the way it was. I've been a little too controlling and took him for granted and he felt like he was being caged in for years, which I can understand his fear. But I've been that way for as long as he's known me. still, no excuse. I'll definitely check out OW forum. Thank you! I blamed myself alot too in the first months after D day...Everything becomes much more clear in time...Also, the great gals at OW suggested I check out the Sep/div forum the Marriage one...I have done some reading on those, but I intend to do more...I think it's good to go to all of these, as they all have different view points, and it's very helpful depending on how you're feeling that day and where you are in your R...Good luck and let me know if I can help any more...
onlyone25 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 cl2d, I was in a very simular situation but ours does have a bit of a twist. My H and I have been together for over 30 years, married for almost 27. We have two fantastic sons, 21 and 22. How old are your kids? We had had a good life and marriage until September 22, 2004. Our oldest son, then 19, was in a horrible car accident and the out come was TBI (traumatic brain injury). Although he is doing well and quite high functioning, he probably will never drive or be able to live on his own. After the accident I quit work to take care of our son. My H on the other hand poured himself into his work. To this day my H still is filled with guilt about the accident. He totally and completely blames himself; he went with our son and basically bought the car for him (loaned him most of the money) but knowing in his heart it was to much car for our son. Things were very slowly going up hill for our son but we were another story; at least in my H eyes, I was completely blind-sided. June 18, 2005, three days before our 25th anniversary, my H is at a buddys of his giving him a hand, not unususal, calls me around 8:00pm and says he'll be home in about an hour. Well 2:30am rolls around and he finally comes stumbbling in, drunk! Very, very unlike him!! I knew in my heart what happen. I let him sleep off the drunk while I sat there and cried. In the morning he told me he had f***ed another women (although I like to use OG cuz she was only 22! at the time) in a bar parking lot no less! He tells me he doesn't know what to do cuz he loves me but has very strong feelings for her. Sorry, I need to shorten this story up... For the next year my H was on the fence; contact, no contact, contact, no contact etc. I went through a living he11!! I did ask him to leave in November of 05 but stupid me let him come back 2 weeks later after he assured me I and our marriage was what he wanted. The no contact didn't last long and we were right back on the roller coaster. Like you,cl2d, I was scared to death of losing him. I loved him with my whole heart to spite what he had done and was still doing. We were in counselling at the time, both MC and IC. But I firmly believe, and my H agrees with me, the counselors we had at the time made things worse!!! So advice here... if you feel you're not getting anywhere with your counselor FIND A NEW ONE! Go to several if that what it takes! Finally for us in late April 06 we found a great lady, Carol!! It still took until late June for my H to finally let OG go, but there's been no contact since June 26, 2006. MHO... When he says he'll make up his mind soon cuz he doesn't want to drag this out anymore, DON"T BELIEVE HIM!!! As long as you tolerate it he will continue contact with OW. I was in your shoes and fed that same line; over and over! Talk to a lawyer and get hime out of that house. I wish I would have been stronger. We are trying to work on our marriage but it is the hardest thing i've ever had to do! I feel because our nightmare dragged on for a year it's making it even harder for me to move on. I have good days for maybe about a week or so and then a really bad day hits! The real bad days are horrible. I feel so empty and dead inside. I start having doubts if I ever will be able to move on. My H has been really good; it's nothing he's doing or not doing, it's just me. Carol, our counselor, keeps telling me it will get easier and the bad days will get less and less but it's going to take a long time! I never in my life wanted time to go by really fast!! cl2d, I wish there was something magical I could say to make the pain go away! I absolutely feel your pain!! Hugs to you, stay strong, and one day at a time! Sooo sorry this is sooo long!!
cl2d Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Onlyone25, I'm sorry for what you had to go through. I'm glad that you've found a good counselor, I guess with time the pain will ease. As for me, I'm giving him until this weekend to "decide". I started backing off from him last Friday, we were suppose to have lunch, but I canceled, he came to my work anyways to see me. He says he can't stay away from me. We've tried separating, he slept 3 days in his home office, and came back to our bed on the 4th. We still function like normal couple, the kids still see us kissing and hugging each other. I am so confused!!! How can he tell me that he loves me and cares about me and still be talking to the OW? It feels like she's a part of his daily routine now, he talks to her everyday just like he talks to me. They also talk about our kids. It just turns my stomach to think that. I feels so weak and empty. I tried to ask him to leave but he says he's paying for the house and he would have no place to live. I know I shouldn't even care, but I do. Thank you to all of you for your input and support.
onlyone25 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Gosh, I feel like I'm reading my own post when I read yours, cl2d! I know exactly how you feel when you say "I'm so confused"! Like you, we basically lived like a normal couple through the year long nightmare. We kissed, hugged, we even made love most every day! I know, crazy as it sounds cuz I know a lot of BS have a lot of trouble with intimacy for quite some time. I also believe my H's OG was a part of his daily life just as I was. I know they didn't see each other real regular though cuz i would listen to her voice mails and read her email; yes I had excess to HER email!! (people use such lame passwords sometimes; I guessed hers first try!!) She would get really pissed at my H cuz he would blow her off. Her famous line was I'm not going to be your 7 - 3, m - f girlfriend. I know they did talk on the phone and email pretty much everyday when there was contact. They also talked about our kids, which made me sick to my stomach too!! We had a couple of incidents with that... she deliberately searched and found our son's myspace pages and emailed the links to my H "just in case he wanted to check them out". What she didn't know was that we have all the boys passwords for the computer and can look at anything when ever we want. Stupid girl! The last straw though was a few weeks before final last contact. As you know she's only a couple years older than our boys; well she was at college and ran into this girl she knew but she also knew the girl knew our youngest son (from his myspace). She had the nerve to say to this girl, "Oh you know ____? I know his dad really good!" The girl replys back, "Oh you must know his mom too?" OG says, "Kinda!!!" Well this girl gets home and calls our son to ask him if he knows ____ (OG). Our son about freaked and rightly so!!! Both our boys knew of the A from the beginning, although our youngest knew more and knew every time she was back. The oldest one didn't cuz he was basically oblivous to a lot of things due to his brain injury. Needless to say I told my H either this is it or I'll show up on her door step and I don't think mommy and daddy will like what she's been up to!! Could you imagine... some woman, your own age, showing up on your door step and telling you your daughter's been having an A with her H! I'd kill my daughter! Anyways sorry for babbling, I have a habit of doing that! All I can say is stay strong and keep posting if that helps; I know it helps me. Even if you just need to babble like me!!!
cl2d Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Oh please, babble on...it helps me to know that I'm not the only one going through this. Thanks again.
outofdarkness Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 Oh please, babble on...it helps me to know that I'm not the only one going through this. Thanks again. oh no...you are definately NOT alone!!!
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