Cossette4 Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Just wanted to get people's thoughts on this... If someone betrays you after being with you for a long time with no prior "signs" of betrayal-type-behavior, do you believe that person was a bad apple all along and his/her true colors finally show, or did he/she "change" at some point towards the end of your time together? I was with my ex for 5 years and all I can remember from the first 4 years was him being amazingly sweet, kind, and respectful of my feelings. We were fighting a lot during the 5th year and started growing apart, but I never expected him to break up with me over the phone, to never want to see/speak to me again, and to start dating my total opposite a week later. I know no one really *knows* the answer to my question, but perhaps you have theories or experiences you'd like to share. I would like to believe that he was a good guy and his love was real for at least the first 4 years, and then when problems arose, he "changed" into an immature douchebag. It's scary for me to imagine he fooled me for the entire 5 years... <--On a lighter note, here is a bunny.
princesspeaches Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I believe people can change. I also believe in believing that he really did love me. (not talking about anyone in particular here.) So I don't see why you should't let yourself believe in the love. Feeling fooled sucks, so don't feel that way. I like to think that he changed to a different game and I couldn't keep up. I'd also continue thinking he's an immature douchebag. It will help the healing process.
underpants Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I don't know. From reading your posts it seems you pass alot of judgement on who he left you for. Oh...don't for one minute I don't empathise. It sucks to get dumped and for someone YOU judge as less. I guess, I am just trying to get you to move from the anger to acceptance stage. Yes, he is a royal with cheese idiot, but it is his choice to order that happy meal. Being bitter about it is your choice. Doesn't taste so good does it? No it is not fair, but you know don't let this break you. Let it remake you. You will be okay, heck, even better. You are not drive thru, you are 4-5 star and in time...he will regret. However, let him find that regret on his own. Let go girl, this was his choice. All we can do is move on.
mav100 Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 In my opinion, people are who they are - they don't change. I spent almost a year with my ex, and I must say, I thought I'd never meet a more wonderful woman. I mean, she was a modern day June Cleaver! However, just as things seemed to be really getting started, I caught her cheating on me - with this jerkoff ex of hers! The guy practically abandoned her when her mother was dying of cancer because he didn't care to support her emotionally. Everyone who knew her would have never guessed in a million years she would do something like that. It was completely against what we all thought of her. However, I found out after the fact that this wasn't the first time she had done this kind of stuff. In fact, it's her usual MO. She just hid things very well I guess, or maybe she was happy with me for a time. Regardless, a leopard doesn't change their stripes. I've had this happen to me a few times, or something similar, with multiple girlfriends. So I'd have to say again, people are who they are.
Author Cossette4 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 Princess--Yeah, I can only hope that he was at least ONCE a good guy. It's so weird b/c a part of me wishes him misery forever and ever and yet there's this tiny part of me that hopes one day he will change back into that good guy he was to me for so long and find someone really nice and awesome instead of the trash he is with. Isn't that bizaare of me? I sit here b:bunny: tching about my broken heart and what a loser he is and in the next breath, I hope he one day grows up and finds happiness. Maybe I've had too many Cherry Cokes tonight... Under, indeed I do pass judgment on her, but I feel as though I have enough evidence to accurately do so, and I have mutual friends with my ex who have met her and think she's trash. Really the only person who doesn't feel this way is apparently my ex....? But you are absolutely right...I need to transfer my disgust for their relationship into laughter and just move on! Let him figure out what everyone else seems to already think on his own...by then I'll be long gone... And thank you for those McDonald's references. I'm lovin' it. Pun intended.
Author Cossette4 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 Mav--Yeah, that could be true One of my co-workers once told me this quote like "There's no such thing as a lapse in integrity." I met this guy when I was 16 and he was 17, so maybe we don't even HAVE a completely developed sense of character then, and it's only in our 20s when we start really BECOMING who we are and he just became...a douche.
Guest Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I never believed that people change... maybe in your teens but once you cross the 20ish line, you're a carved stone. One of my exs long time ago (7 years or so) was this sweet little thing that just wanted to laugh and have fun and go home with me to cuddle and enjoy each others love and warmth. And one day, she started packing her stuff and when I asked what's going on she said she was going with a man who's got money (a doctor then) who can support her and make her feel like a woman that deserves the best. Mind you, we didn't fight or anything... she came home from work and started packing. it was ultimate shock-o-mania! Forget me, EVERYBODY was like "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE" NOBODY believed my story and thought I was crazy. After a couple of days when it sunk in, and I tried to analyze things that perhaps I didn't pay attention to but in vain. It was like a David Cooperfield magic trick. Our closest friends (who decided they won't talk to her anymore) told me that there is noway a human being can change like this... she had it in her and she was a pro at hiding it. I couldn't agree with them more. So yeah I don't think people change that radically that quick. Mmm, your post brought back some memories haha thanks.
underpants Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Gosh, thinking back to my high school boyfriend. That was along time ago. When we first started dating he had aspirations of becoming an architect and was artistically gifted. I loved him unconditionally however, he turned into a very ugly person who not only cheated, but was ugly to just about everyone who cared about him, including his family. Part of it may have been the angst of teenage years but he really developed into an ugly selfish soul. I am happy to say I don't know what ever happened to him. I know he got arrested a few times after we split, he dropped out of highschool and well who knows. What a waste of so much promise. Again though it was his choice. I made mine a decided to go to college and move on. Every boyfriend since has really been a step up. I can't let his bad choices define my character or what I deserve. I hope he got his stuff together, but really I have no desire to find out about him. I probably would not even recognize him if I passed him on the street. I guess take the good person you were in those 5 years and continue to better yourself for a more deserving fellow.
guin_girl Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Well I do think people change over time... I dated one guy for 8 years... we started as friends when he was 19, started dating when he was 21... at 27, he was a completely different person. A lot of it was that he was still growing up, finding out who he was. Friends that he made along the way shaped him in different ways too. I could always tell who he was hanging around with depending on how his attitude was from one week to the next.
Author Cossette4 Posted February 16, 2007 Author Posted February 16, 2007 Guest--Yes, what's complicated for me is that I started dating him in those teen years and we crossed that 20ish line dating, so it's almost like he was still shaping himself and he just went the wrong direction:( ... It's kinda weird though now that I think about it, because his mom would always take me aside during highschool basketball games and tell me "thank you" for keeping him on track and how I am so good for him and I was just kinda like "Uhhh...ok?" So maybe even she was concerned with the person he was shaping up to be and thought maybe I could change that... I also have a similar thing going on with mutual friends--many of them won't talk to him anymore b/c they are shocked at his "magic trick" as well.. Under--Thanks Your post gives me a lot of inspiration knowing that you got through it and that he wouldn't even catch your attention if you passed him on the street. I hope I can get to that point someday... My ex had similar "aspirations" about becoming a psychologist and would always talk it up like it was his passion and then he ended up just going to community college and failing all his classes and never even got his associate's, yet every year he would LIE to me and tell me how great he was doing and where he planned on transferring. It was like he wanted the "glory" of having a goal or a passion and then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to achieve it and then LIED when someone asked him about it. Sad. Then he accused me of just being interested in a guy with a "career" aka "a guy with money." And that made me so mad b/c I wouldn't care if he was a garbage man as long as he seriously had passion and motivation to be the best he could be with his life. He just really never got it. Guin, wow 8 years. If you don't mind me asking, what eventually happened that led you to break up? That's one thing I'm learning now is how people "change" in there early-mid 20s once "life" starts hitting you and you are no longer just in highschool or college. That's why I'm leery about people getting married at like 20, 21, 22 like a lot of my friends are...
justagirlforever Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Regardless, a leopard doesn't change their stripes. A leopard has spots - a tiger has stripes (A leopard never changes his spots) - one of my favourites quotes actually. But yes, I totally agree.
Davis Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 If someone betrays you after being with you for a long time with no prior "signs" of betrayal-type-behavior, do you believe that person was a bad apple all along and his/her true colors finally show, or did he/she "change" at some point towards the end of your time together? Hey Cossette, you're still looking for answers as to "why" he did what he did and left you. I understand, but I don't think it's going to make you feel any better about how he behaved. I don't think that "he changed". I think there's little question that he loved you, cared and was good to you. So, it's not so much that he is a total bad apple, but he did show you part of his true character with how he finalized his relationship with you. That does not diminish the positive and good things you had together. You just never got to the particular issue before to know what type of person he really was. It's like if you see a house on fire or a car accident and there are still people in there. Some run (like you ex) and some make an effort to help other people (heroes). In your situation, you found that your ex was a coward and a runner. Then there are people like you and many of us on LS that try to do the right thing. So, I'm trying to say, when there is a crisis you really find out the depth of character of a person. You don't need to second guess yourself. Yes he cared and yes he is that type of person thta you see now.
Road Rage Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Someone can blindside you after twenty, thirty or more years in a marriage. It is not just a youth thing. I like this thread, it is so real how some people turn out to be very different than they are generally percieved, even by those closest to them.
guin_girl Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 Guin, wow 8 years. If you don't mind me asking, what eventually happened that led you to break up? That's one thing I'm learning now is how people "change" in there early-mid 20s once "life" starts hitting you and you are no longer just in highschool or college. That's why I'm leery about people getting married at like 20, 21, 22 like a lot of my friends are... Well like I said he wasn't the same person that I fell in love with. He hadn't had the "freedom" to grow. When I met him, he still lived at home with a military father (mom was gone when he was 3) and it wasn't always happy. He wasn't very sure of himself and had no self esteem. The longer we dated, the more he was able to grow and be on his own. He didn't finish school when I met him, I started back to college and he decided he wanted to go too... he moved out on his own finally. He moved up into management out of a kitchen cook position... then from there he started his own business. His father actually took me aside and thanked me for finishing "raising" his son. He said that my influence on him made his son a better man... But then he became more and more independent and we wanted different things and we started fighting more and more. So I guess it just got to the point that the dynamics of our relationship were no longer boyfriend/girlfriend and although I loved him, I wasn't in love with him anymore... Because we were not married, I made the decision to let him find someone who would. He deserved that and so did I. Had we been married, I probably would have stayed with him, but since we were not, I made the decision. Before he left on a 3 week trip to Ireland, we had a heated discussion about where our relationship was going... and here is where No Contact apparently makes it's impact... I didn't hear from him the entire 3 weeks he was gone... mind you 8 years everyday, to NOTHING... so I had all of this time to think about our relationship... I made the decision to break it off... now on the flip side, 3 weeks of no contact made him miss me more and more (come to find out he had tried sending emails from Ireland, but back then the internet was not as reliable as it is now) and was in the process of proposing when I stopped him to tell him that his stuff was in my car... I didn't want the only time he will ever ask a woman to marry him for the answer to be no... The break up was extremely hard for both of us... but we are now friends, it took several years, but it was the right decision... His girlfriend now doesn't like us being friends and I respect that, so our friendship is not as close as it used to be. But I can understand her not being happy about it... although it's her issue not his and mine. So in short... I think that you are a different person in your early 20's than you are in your late 20's or further along in life... and either you grow together or you grow apart...
Shana555 Posted February 16, 2007 Posted February 16, 2007 I started dating my ex when I was 18 and he was 23/24. Things were great. He was a dream and we had the perfect relationship... That is until he hit his later 20's, around 27... All of a sudden he wanted his freedom. Became a complete jerk to me. He wanted space to enjoy his new money, new house, new toys, blah blah... Long story short, I suddely became last priority. He's about 30 now and has been trying to get me back. I was taking things slow seeing how things would go and then I recently found out that he has been in a relationship with a girl for 7 months now. I guess he planned to date us both How's that for growing up?!
Davis Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Shanna. I guess you finally got confirmation of his true colors: he's a jerk and a player.
Shana555 Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Yep, I just hope the new girl figures it out soon... And yes she does know about him coming back to me, but believes his fake promises and lies Sad huh
Guest Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 It's like if you see a house on fire or a car accident and there are still people in there. Some run (like you ex) and some make an effort to help other people (heroes). In your situation, you found that your ex was a coward and a runner. Then there are people like you and many of us on LS that try to do the right thing. So, I'm trying to say, when there is a crisis you really find out the depth of character of a person. You don't need to second guess yourself. Yes he cared and yes he is that type of person thta you see now. Excellent way of describing how different people can be.
Author Cossette4 Posted February 17, 2007 Author Posted February 17, 2007 I officially <3 this thread---lots of good insight and advice... Davis, that's a really good way to think about it...it's not so much a "bad apple" vs. "changing" thing as it is a "you've never seen him in this situation before so you have no idea how he'd react" thing. And in the long run, it's good that I found out how he treats people when times get hard...he runs. I wouldn't want to find that out 10 years into a marriage...Now, if his new girlfriend wasn't so freaking dumb, she would probably be freaked out that he would treat her the same way as he did me should they ever break up. I almost feel bad for her...wait..no. Guin, thanks for giving me the background on that. It's nice that you are friends now. A part of me feels like I would laugh in my ex'es face if he ever came crawling back asking for my friendship but that totally Mother Teresa part of me feels like I probably would help him out friend-wise if he ever needed me Shana, wow it's seriously true what they say--some people NEVER grow up. Even though they end up hurting people with their immaturity, it looks like in the long run they only hurt themselves because they bring their drama with them wherever they go.
Trialbyfire Posted February 17, 2007 Posted February 17, 2007 Cossette4, you've got a great attitude. =) People change a lot up to age 25. Even beyond that, every seven years your entire body changes, lol. To sum it up, I think the two of you had something worthwhile for a number of years. Don't let that last year detract from the positive experience. Having said that, you will also find someone even better in time and look back on this and say to yourself, thank goodness the last year happened. Otherwise, I would still be stuck with him.
Tormented Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 You know something, Cossette? I know you and I were dealt a harsh hand by our exes (both turned their backs on us for women who possess NO morals, no class, and have very little to offer), and that's damn hard to deal with. The "why's" will drive you nuts...believe me, I know. I've spent the past six months beating my head against the wall with all of this, trying desperately to make sense of it all in search for answers. I was blindsighted with it as you were. Never saw it coming...just like you. I mean...why the hell would our exes trade us in for women who, as you stated, are the equivalent of a trailer trash skank...and in my case, a diagnosed borderline slut who has cheated on every husband she had, turned her back on her own children, and is a drug addict/alcoholic...not to mention unemployed. Why? Who knows. But more importantly...WHO CARES!!! Point is, the sickness in these women appeal to the sickness within our exes. They don't want REAL women...they want the drama and excitement that trash can provide. And if that's the case, then you and I can proudly say...we're NOT their TYPE. And as painful as it was/is for us, we really ought to thank these two skanks for exposing our exes for what they REALLY are. I mean, if not for these women, you and I could have married these jerks! And if we THINK we know what pain and misery is now...it is pale in comparison to what we would have had to endure had we tied the knot with these two losers. To my way of thinking, you and I narrowly dodged a bullet, Cossette. But the point is...we did, didn't we? Thank God. And now we're free to drop the zero and get a hero! ~T~
Davis Posted February 18, 2007 Posted February 18, 2007 Point is, the sickness in these women appeal to the sickness within our exes. They don't want REAL women...they want the drama and excitement that trash can provide. And as painful as it was/is for us, we really ought to thank these two skanks for exposing our exes for what they REALLY are. I mean, if not for these women, you and I could have married these jerks! To my way of thinking, you and I narrowly dodged a bullet, Cossette. But the point is...we did, didn't we? Thank God. Hey Tormented! Very good points and well said. I think that even helped me feel better about the situation with my ex. Yes, it shows the dysfunction in your exes' personalities that they have to hook up with women like these. Then there's always the "Captian Save-a-Ho" problem that lots of us guys have!! But you girls DID dodge a bullet. You could be married to them, have kids and be stuck in the situation with no where to go!
Author Cossette4 Posted February 19, 2007 Author Posted February 19, 2007 Point is, the sickness in these women appeal to the sickness within our exes. They don't want REAL women...they want the drama and excitement that trash can provide. Very true, Tor. I have an interesting tale to add. I was talking to some friends tonight I hadn't seen in a long time and they hadn't heard THE STORY, so they were just like "So how's your boyfriend?" And I was like WELLLLLL....STORY TIME. I told them about the pre-breakup fights we had and the subjects of those arguments (finishing school, managing money, being an adult, having goals and aspirations) and where he was in his life vs. where I was in my life and right away they were like "Yeah we can see how he just couldn't keep up anymore and had to get out..." "Yeah he wasn't going anywhere with his life and he didn't need you to remind him of it anymore..." "Yeah he wasn't mature enough to handle you pointing out the things he should be doing with his life so he ran..." And the interesting thing was, I hadn't reached the part in the story yet where I told them, "And then I found out there was this nasty bisexual hs dropout skanky whore he had moved in with..." So it made me realize how SHE isn't the focus. He didn't leave me FOR HER. He left me for those reasons stated above because he wasn't ready to grow up, and he ran to HER because she was drama and excitement, and wasn't a REAL WOMAN who would say "Get off your a:bunny: and do something with your life." She appealed to his sickness for being an immature boy who wants to simply wake up and breathe, because her track record proves she lives her life in a very similar way. We shouldn't wonder how these guys can leave CLASSY for TRASHY because that's not really what they are doing. They are not man enough to handle CLASSY and they medicate their weaknesses with TRASHY. That more accurately explains their actions.
guin_girl Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Makes perfect sense to me. They say men like to feel like they are "needed" and us strong women aren't needing to be saved by them. We don't "need" a man in our lives to complete us, we would like a man to "compliment" our lives.
Author Cossette4 Posted February 21, 2007 Author Posted February 21, 2007 Exactly. That reminds me, when my ex first told his friends about his new girlfriend, this was how he described her--"She's so laid back...and she irons my shirts...and she cooked me dinner the other night...and she doesn't yell at me." It's so sad because he's basically openly stating he likes her for her housewife labor capabilities and the fact that she doesn't "yell" at him like I did. I imagine he feels mighty and powerful in this relationship, which is where the real attraction lies. PS--In 5 years, I never ironed one of his shirts once
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