The self-esteem of a OW

[Salicious Crumb]

Yup! Sure would understand! Maybe some revenge sex might straighten out that bitter attitude you're carrying around!

 

Hey, we all know you have the morals of a snake and that is something YOU would do.

 

I won't though. I am better than that.

[Jinxx]

Hey, we all know you have the morals of a snake and that is something YOU would do.

 

Oh - so I guess that means your wife is like me then????

 

I won't though. I am better than that.

 

Yes -- you have already told us that. Lets hear about some of your flaws -- something that contributed to what YOUR part was in your wife seeking comfort elsewhere.

 

 

Listen -- you say you won't. I said the same thing when I was a BS. I'm not saying that you wouldn't but still..... an opportunity just might present itself one day that even YOU won't be able to turn down.

[Salicious Crumb]

Listen -- you say you won't. I said the same thing when I was a BS. I'm not saying that you wouldn't but still..... an opportunity just might present itself one day that even YOU won't be able to turn down.

 

Opportunity has presented itself a couple of times...all I had to say was I was married. Sure I was flattered...but I took my vows seriously.

 

I can turn it down easily..I'm not that needy.

 

And yes...unfortunately...my wife is like you....was....ah who knows. All I know is she will be changing or her address will.

 

And if flaws are justification or "understanding" off seeking attention elsewhere...you just gave me an excuse to go get my rocks off elsewhere.

 

Everyone has flaws...but not everyone cheats...so what does that say about cheaters?

 

My wife had my comfort any time she wanted it. She just is weak...like you, and couldn't turn it down.

 

Me..I can turn it down.

[Babybird]

She did this while engaged as well...only I didn't find out until years later.

So if things were so bad...and we had no kids at that time..then why did she marry me?

 

Wrong again...to ask someone WHY an affair happened, if the person asking doesn't think that it is just a matter of selfishness on the cheaters part, is to say its the fault of the betrayed.

 

I mean really...if someone treated their SO like a queen/king...didn't abuse them, loved them unconditionally, did everything for them and with them, and there was never ANY neglect...then you tell me....what else is there?

 

So bending over backwards until your back breaks isn't enough..you have to cut your right arm off to keep someone who is suppose to love them from cheating?? Thats pretty f#cked up.

 

Once again You don't know why she cheated, why she married you after cheating, and the main thing you don't know is if all this 'bending over backwards' for her was what she wanted or needed. YOU WON'T ASK!!!

 

I don't know about every woman but I never wanted a man that kissed my *ss, never created a challenge, and apparently was absolutely perfect in his own mind. Sound arrogant. You've created an illusion of how you were with her and how you treated her and STILL won't ask her if your perception of how you were is correct.

 

It happened before you were married and you don't have positive evidence that she cheated the second time so basically this happened, I believe, 8 years ago. She hasn't broken her vows to you. You weren't married when she cheated.

 

Was it a one-night stand? A relationship? What was the extent of her cheating?

[Salicious Crumb]

Once again You don't know why she cheated, why she married you after cheating, and the main thing you don't know is if all this 'bending over backwards' for her was what she wanted or needed. YOU WON'T ASK!!!

 

She never bent over backwards for me..she was far from perfect, and didn't meet alot of my needs...but you didn't see me going out and sticking my member in other women.

 

It happened before you were married

 

I don't give a rat's ass if we were married or not...my ring was on her finger and she crapped all over the committment I made to her.

 

And if she wasn't happy like you all insinuate..then she should have told me so I could have moved on...but she didn't...she let me marry her not knowing what she was.

 

and you don't have positive evidence that she cheated the second time so basically this happened, I believe, 8 years ago. She hasn't broken her vows to you.

 

I don't have proof..but I have heard things...she says she didn't cheat when she came home several times at close to dawn...so I asked her to take a lie detector test...she refused...because she knew she'd fail it with flying colors.

 

 

You weren't married when she cheated.

 

Well gee...that makes it all better and she didn't do anything wrong....sorry...my mistake.

 

Was it a one-night stand? A relationship? What was the extent of her cheating?

 

Why does it matter...she spread her legs for another guy.

 

Perhaps I now I should do the same...call it a one night stand, and see how she likes it.

[Impudent Oyster]

Perhaps I now I should do the same...call it a one night stand, and see how she likes it.

 

Don't do it. Never compromise your integrity, especially for revenge. You said you were better than that and I believe you are.

 

Some of us truly don't need that kind of affirmation, we have integrity and that's worth more far more than any kind of lame satisfaction derived from a tacky one night stand or meaningless affair.

[Salicious Crumb]

Don't do it. Never compromise your integrity, especially for revenge. You said you were better than that and I believe you are.

 

Oh I'll never do it...I even told her that after I found out and she didn't like it one bit.

 

Some of us truly don't need that kind of affirmation, we have integrity and that's worth more far more than any kind of lame satisfaction derived from a tacky one night stand or meaningless affair.

 

Yup...some people risk it all for selfishness. Like I said..nobody is perfect and nobody can be everything to their SO...and if is "understandable" to some that someone goes outside a relationship if not every little detailed "need" is met, then hell.....we all should be cheating.

[silktricks]

Oh I'll never do it...I even told her that after I found out and she didn't like it one bit.

She didn't like it that you said you'd never cheat? Is she crazy?????

 

Yup...some people risk it all for selfishness. Like I said..nobody is perfect and nobody can be everything to their SO...and if is "understandable" to some that someone goes outside a relationship if not every little detailed "need" is met, then hell.....we all should be cheating.

 

Though some have probably said that it's understandable for someone to go outside of the relationship if the needs aren't being met, what I say is quite different. In my opinion, there is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to cheat and deceive another person. The reason to understand has nothing to do with taking fault onto yourself. Rather it is that if the person who has been cheated on can understand what was going on with the other person that it helps them (the betrayed) to move past the situation.

 

Since you haven't divorced your wife, I can only assume that you want the marriage to work out. For that to happen, at some point you'll need to be able to put the pain of the betrayal behind you, and continue on with your life. If you don't, your life will be miserable forever, and that's not fair to you, or to your kids. (Don't even think the kids won't know - they will, guaranteed.)

 

Those of us who have some experience with the pain that you are going through would like to be able to help you move through that pain. One of the most effective ways seems to be understanding.

 

Attempting to understand what was going on with your partner when they betrayed you is not an easy thing to do. It doesn't mean, though, that you are taking the blame for what they did on yourself, it was, after all their decision to be with someone else - in other words, they chose to excise their difficulties by administering to you the utmost indignation, betrayal and pain. BUT, now that you know what happened, you (or I, or any betrayed person) can choose to remain in the pain where we were put, or we can work at moving away from it.

 

An option that can always be exercised in moving away from the pain is to move away from the person who caused it. It sounds like that is not what you want to do.

 

You use this board for venting your anger, and that's a-OK. It's part of what it's for. But anger venting will only get you so far, because until you understand something of what was going on in your wife's head, you won't be able to move past the venting. And venting will only get you so far in YOUR road to recovery.

 

Understanding is NOT condoning. It is not taking the blame. It is not even forgiving. It is simply and solely understanding where the other person was at when they hurt you. Can it help lead you to forgiveness? Yes. However, it can also help you decide that you cannot and will not forgive, or can forgive, but cannot be with the betrayer anymore.

 

Right now, you seem to be stuck. Maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe you need a whole lot more venting time. There is no set timetable for recovery. But the whole point of life (in my opinion) is movement, so please, try not be to too stuck for too long.

 

Best wishes.

[silktricks]

And if she wasn't happy like you all insinuate..then she should have told me so I could have moved on...but she didn't...she let me marry her not knowing what she was

SC, there are a lot of crazy reason that people cheat. Sometimes it's because they are unhappy. But that's far from the only reason.

 

She SHOULD HAVE TOLD YOU. She didn't. She married you, not letting you know what she DID.

 

What she IS, is your wife and the mother of your children. Sometimes really nice people make really crappy choices, and do really despicable things. Those things are mistakes, poor judgment, errors. (Not accidents, errors - you don't "accidentally" cheat.) It does not mean they are bad people. What it does is mean that they are human.

 

I don't know your wife. I don't know you. In you I see a person who was very very badly hurt. You may be as rigid as you sound in some of your posts, but in reality, I don't think you are. You sound like an honorable person, who expects others to be honorable as well, and pretty d*mned angry at being deceived. Anyone who is truly as rigid as you portray yourself would never have let his wife go out partying in the first place.

 

Your wife may be a very nice person who made some horrible mistakes - FOR WHATEVER REASON - not your fault. But please don't say that she is automatically a bad person. You chose her. You were mostly happy with her until you found that she had deceived you, right? If you chose her, she couldn't be all bad, could she?

 

I know it's hard, but if you can, focus on what she did as being what she did, not who she is.

[silktricks]

I don't think OW as a general rule have any better or worse self-esteem than the rest of the world. Some are insecure, and see themselves poorly, some are over-confident and conceited, some are in the middle somewhere. I don't think there is a "standard model" of OW/OM.

[Salicious Crumb]

She didn't like it that you said you'd never cheat? Is she crazy?????

 

 

No..clarification..she didn't like it when I told her I ought to go out and cheat since she did.

 

An option that can always be exercised in moving away from the pain is to move away from the person who caused it. It sounds like that is not what you want to do.

 

 

No..rather the option is she will need to move away from me. I'm not going anywhere, I didn't cause this situation. If separation is what we need, and only time will tell...then she will be the one moving out.

 

Understanding is NOT condoning.

 

Not according to Jinxx.

 

Right now, you seem to be stuck. Maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe you need a whole lot more venting time. There is no set timetable for recovery. But the whole point of life (in my opinion) is movement, so please, try not be to too stuck for too long.

 

Best wishes.

 

Well thanks for the concern

[Salicious Crumb]

Anyone who is truly as rigid as you portray yourself would never have let his wife go out partying in the first place.

 

See and there is the thing...i was happy to watch our children so she could have some time to have fun with her friends. I didn't give a 2nd thought about it. I thought I was being a great husband.

 

Boy was I fooled. That'll never happen again in my lifetime.

 

Your wife may be a very nice person who made some horrible mistakes - FOR WHATEVER REASON - not your fault. But please don't say that she is automatically a bad person. You chose her. You were mostly happy with her until you found that she had deceived you, right? If you chose her, she couldn't be all bad, could she?

 

True, but now she isn't the same person I chose. She is someone else.

[silktricks]

No..rather the option is she will need to move away from me. I'm not going anywhere, I didn't cause this situation. If separation is what we need, and only time will tell...then she will be the one moving out.

 

Sorry, for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean that you personally would move from your house, I meant that you would separate from or divorce your wife. Therefore, you would move on with your life, away from the relationship you are in now.

[silktricks]

Boy was I fooled. That'll never happen again in my lifetime.

And I'm sure that's a good thing. I'm a firm believer that marriages and partying with friends don't make a good combination.

 

True, but now she isn't the same person I chose. She is someone else.

Really, she isn't. She's the same woman. It's just that now you see the blemishes more clearly.

 

When I found out some of the things about my husband that I know now, I felt the same way. This wasn't the man I knew. This wasn't the man I married.

 

But what I really found out was that he is the same man. He made some soul-wrenching mistakes, but because of how he cared for me when he saw the depth of my pain at his actions, I found again that man who I loved and married. Eventually I came to see that what happened would never happen again. The changes that he underwent through this experience forever altered him and his view of women. And in large part what created that change was seeing and experiencing my pain.

 

I think one of the reasons I urge you to talk to your wife, and better understand her, is so that you can find some peace. I found my peace largely because of my husband's actions after d-day, but I pulled no punches with him. He knew without a doubt of how I felt from one moment to the next. His feelings were not spared by me, and I never even once protected him from the depth of my pain and anger. He survived and helped me survive. As a result, our marriage survived.

 

Alternatively, had he not been able to live through my feelings over his betrayal, then our marriage would not have survived. I would still have survived, but it would have been on my own, not as part of a couple. Not something I couldn't do, but something I'm glad I didn't have to do.

[puddleofmud]

SC: how about make a compromise? Have you ever suggested your wife to "girl-party" at your house?

In other words: send the babies to grandmas and invite all the girls over for drinks (where you tend the bar), play music really LOUD, and let them toss their proverbial hair?

And that they can spend the night if they get too drunk to drive?

I am friends with several M couples who do that and let me tell ya that I'd rather be there then at some bar! It's cheaper and safer! Plus, the music is better...

I really appreciate that my M girl-friends haven't given up their friendship with me just because I am single gal and their husbands also are so funny and kind about all of us invading their houses.

God knows they've no interest in our gossip and no reason to put up with us.

Kinda like some wives aren't in the least interested in the male bonding of Super Bowl parties in their homes...

[Salicious Crumb]

SC: how about make a compromise? Have you ever suggested your wife to "girl-party" at your house?

 

No because I don't want those tramps in my house. They are not welcome.

 

Besides..there would be no other men around....so they wouldn't be interested.

[Jinxx]

No because I don't want those tramps in my house. They are not welcome.

 

Besides..there would be no other men around....so they wouldn't be interested.

 

You really are a piece of work. Just because women (or men for that matter) go out to clubs or dancing does not automatically mean they will be "hoeing" themselves out for an affair or a one-night stand.

 

I know you don't believe or give a rat's ass about anything I have to say but when I was married I would go out with my friends to be with my friends -- not to f*ck around. I only had one affair and we met each other eslewhere. Your wife doesn't have to have a night out with girls to be unfaithful.

 

You are being cruel to yourself and your wife to stay in this marriage.

[pricillia]

Well it is fitting justice....I have to deal with what she did to me every day...now she is worried about what i might do even though I think she knows I never will. I don't rub it in her face when she brings it up...I just tell her she knows I won't do that.

 

I think she is just worried because she isn't the man magnet she use to be and I am changing myself for the better...not that there was anything wrong with me before.

 

 

 

SC, there is more to someone then looks, you know that! If you are changing yourself for the better then that is great, I commend you but what are you doing to change your attitude because sometimes it is not great!

 

Now I know that she cheated on you and I am not saying that is right and you have a good reason to be acting out, however at some point you need to learn how to forgive.

[puddleofmud]

So ALL your wife's friend are "tramps" and would only be interested in MEN as opposed to a fun-filled eve with each other, just/merely as FEMALE friends? Sitting around in sweats and mussed hair, eating carry out pizza, listening to "high school fav music" AKA Bon Jovi/ Van Halen at your house? OK, maybe not those bands but high school stuff they like.

Are you quite sure? Even if this should be--with them in your house, and within your boundaries--you do have control so what's the harm? After all you can kick their trampy sweat pant sodded butts out should any questionable behavior occur? No prob...right?

(Yet, frankly you still don't know if any questionable behavior has actually ocurred since prior "the eight years ago engagement "affair" and certainly don't know if your wife's so-called party friends aided and abetted anything recent...???)

I tend to doubt these are ALL nothing but mere tramps as when most women (being that I have been one for almost a half a century; and you are welcome to call me a tramp as opposed to a woman if you are determined to make a fool of yourself ) are with each other they tend to talk about everything other than MEN--they've had enough of that and getting together with the GIRLS is well, just GIRLY sh$t. That is why "girl-drinks" were invented and why gorgeous male bartenders wear invisible ear plugs and just nodd, politely can't wait to end the eve and cash in their tips.

AND your wife would be HOME, period. Seems you'd like that?

Just because your wife isn't "party-ing" with said past girl-friends doesn't mean that she doesn't still have girl-friends or more than this NEED female friends, does it?

Perhaps not the very same ones; but she does have female friends just as YOU have male friends?

Women can have great fun with just the female friends without being all trampy and horny-like.

 

What I am suggesting is COMPROMISE. Do you understand the word?

Life does not stop w/ marriage--life begins. Individuality doesn't die with marriage and children--it is accentuated and becomes even the more lively by one's partner appreciating one's sense of FUN as well as one's sense of responsibilities.

 

Have you considered (and I say this with a kind and even tone) that you may have become somewhat of a "stick in the mud"?

 

Women who want to have a tiny bit of fun and night off aren't tramps. AS well some of us that do have a tiny bit of fun with our girlfriends and are able to let loose do go home and rape our husbands!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

So my question to all of you is this. What do you get out of invading someone elses life ?

 

I think the person posting this question has low self-esteem.

 

Ariadne

[Babybird]

So ALL your wife's friend are "tramps" and would only be interested in MEN as opposed to a fun-filled eve with each other, just/merely as FEMALE friends?

 

Just because your wife isn't "party-ing" with said past girl-friends doesn't mean that she doesn't still have girl-friends or more than this NEED female friends, does it?

Perhaps not the very same ones; but she does have female friends just as YOU have male friends?

Women can have great fun with just the female friends without being all trampy and horny-like.

 

What I am suggesting is COMPROMISE. Do you understand the word?

Life does not stop w/ marriage--life begins. Individuality doesn't die with marriage and children--it is accentuated and becomes even the more lively by one's partner appreciating one's sense of FUN as well as one's sense of responsibilities.

 

Have you considered (and I say this with a kind and even tone) that you may have become somewhat of a "stick in the mud"?

 

Women who want to have a tiny bit of fun and night off aren't tramps. AS well some of us that do have a tiny bit of fun with our girlfriends and are able to let loose do go home and rape our husbands!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Very well said!!!

 

Why don't you go hang out with your friends and stop focusing so much on what she did 8 years ago?

 

So she is supposed to sit in the house, being allowed to do nothing with her friends because she's making 'amends' and become a hermit? Everybody needs friends and to go out once in while. Even if she did make a mistake theres no reason you'd have to leave her if she went out once in a while.

 

And you need something to stop the demented porno you keep replaying in your mind. It is never going to help your marriage.

 

Me and a whole group of married women would go out once or twice a month for girls night. None of us cheated.

 

Even though the A is new to you, it isn't to her. It was 8 years ago. That has to mean something. For 8 years, even though you have condemned her to be guilty with no proof, she has been loyal to you. Kind of hard to prove yourself faithful when you've been nothing but for the entire marriage.

[Salicious Crumb]

You really are a piece of work. Just because women (or men for that matter) go out to clubs or dancing does not automatically mean they will be "hoeing" themselves out for an affair or a one-night stand.

 

No..but it more than likely IS the case.

 

but when I was married I would go out with my friends to be with my friends -- not to f*ck around. I only had one affair and we met each other eslewhere. Your wife doesn't have to have a night out with girls to be unfaithful.

 

True...and a lion can kill and eat his/her prey anywhere...but when in a zoo its a certainty they'll eat if you throw the meat at them.

 

You are being cruel to yourself and your wife to stay in this marriage.

 

Oh I highly doubt you could give two ****s about being cruel to myself...I already know you are concerned about another sister in arms and defend her cheating.

[Salicious Crumb]

So ALL your wife's friend are "tramps" and would only be interested in MEN as opposed to a fun-filled eve with each other

 

You got it. I know them....you don't.

 

Are you quite sure?

 

Yup

 

Even if this should be--with them in your house, and within your boundaries--you do have control so what's the harm?

 

Because I don't want women in my house that encouraged her behavior. Yes I know..she is the one that did it..but I don't need two-faced tramps in my home who disrespected me.

 

(Yet, frankly you still don't know if any questionable behavior has actually ocurred since prior "the eight years ago engagement "affair" and certainly don't know if your wife's so-called party friends aided and abetted anything recent...???)

 

Oh things happened...in this small town...nothing is a secret. And since bars aren't open past 1am...she usually had at least 3 hours unaccounted for.

 

But like I said, no secrets in a small town.

 

I tend to doubt these are ALL nothing but mere tramps as when most women (being that I have been one for almost a half a century; and you are welcome to call me a tramp as opposed to a woman if you are determined to make a fool of yourself )

 

Did you ever take a married friend out and cover for her while she went off with some other man? Did you lie to a husband's face telling him she was at your house winding down when she was somewhere else?

 

If not...then why would I call you a tramp?

 

 

AND your wife would be HOME, period. Seems you'd like that?

 

Again...why would I want women in my house that covered for my wife and lied about where she was?

 

Just because your wife isn't "party-ing" with said past girl-friends doesn't mean that she doesn't still have girl-friends or more than this NEED female friends, does it?

 

Then she can go out and make some new friends.

 

Lets put it this way, if you are married and your husband went out partying all the time...and his friends told you he crashed at their place when he was out banging some other woman...would you want them anywhere near you..much less in your home?

 

Women can have great fun with just the female friends without being all trampy and horny-like.

 

True...but not my wife with these particular friends..which actually happens to be all of them except for one. There is one friend she has that I like and isn't a tramp.

 

What I am suggesting is COMPROMISE. Do you understand the word?

 

Ah...so I have to sit in my home with these "friends" of hers that f#cked me over and pretend I like them?

 

Life does not stop w/ marriage--life begins.

 

And in case you hadn't noticed in my posts...I never cared what she did and was glad to watch our children when she went out with her "friends"...that is until I found out what she does when out with them and what she did before we were married.

 

Women who want to have a tiny bit of fun and night off aren't tramps.

 

And thats why I was always happy to stay home with our kids while she went out....but she and her friends, at least with regards to them and not all women, proved your point above wrong.

 

AS well some of us that do have a tiny bit of fun with our girlfriends and are able to let loose do go home and rape our husbands!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well thats good for you if you can handle the clubbing scene...my wife and her friends, however, cannot.

[Salicious Crumb]

Very well said!!!

 

Why don't you go hang out with your friends and stop focusing so much on what she did 8 years ago?

 

Oh it was during marriage too...I only have proof of someone that ratted her out about the thing 8 years ago.

 

So she is supposed to sit in the house, being allowed to do nothing with her friends because she's making 'amends' and become a hermit?

 

Well lets see....hmm....she goes out with her friends...takes advantage of my good will by being more than happy to watch our kids when she went out...comes home at 4am all the time even after I told her that was unacceptable...and her friends lie about her whereabouts since the bars close at 1am...yet waltzes in the door after 4. And in my town...everyone knows everyone elses business and I heard that she wasn't with her friends many a night...I found this out after I found out about her 8 year ago fling because after finding that out I did some digging.

 

And sure enough, she played me for a fool....so...do you think I should be happy about her going clubbing with the tramps that lied to me about her whereabouts?

 

Everybody needs friends and to go out once in while.

 

Then she can make knew ones...the ones that covered for her when she comes home at almost dawn are, in fact, tramps.

 

Friends yes...friends who let friends f#ck around and cover for them....no.

 

But if tramp friends are more important to her than her family...then she can have her tramp friends.

 

Even if she did make a mistake theres no reason you'd have to leave her if she went out once in a while.

 

And you need something to stop the demented porno you keep replaying in your mind. It is never going to help your marriage.

 

No..her cheating didn't help the marriage.

 

Me and a whole group of married women would go out once or twice a month for girls night. None of us cheated.

 

Good for you...you can obviously handle it..my wife and her "friends" cannot.

 

Even though the A is new to you, it isn't to her. It was 8 years ago. That has to mean something. For 8 years, even though you have condemned her to be guilty with no proof, she has been loyal to you.

 

No..she hasn't...she even told me that she'd do anything to prove to me that she loves me....so I told her to take a lie detector test and the only question I'd ask is, "have you been unfaithful during our marriage."

 

She refused....she said she'd do anything...but not that...because she'd fail the test.

 

Kind of hard to prove yourself faithful when you've been nothing but for the entire marriage.

 

I gave her the chance to prove it...but she wouldn't because she hasn't been faithful.

[precious1357]

Its not a matter of invading someone else's life, as in the OW invading the MM's life. Many times the MM comes seeks out a person to talk with and laugh. The MM does not want to screw around on his wife nor does he plan to get a divorce however he knows that his marriage is just not good any more, lacking companionship and sex. What should he do???