Thanks, Dad.

[RecordProducer]

Johan, if you want some thing concrete to do to help you past this, try CBT. I've found 'Feeling Good' by David D Burns (on BO's recommendation) to be very helpful.

what is CBT?

 

this is so true: until we make that conscious decision to say "feck to all, I'm gonna be ME," we live miserable lives trying to live up to everyone's definition of us. Mind you, some of those things are positive – be a good and kind person, don't hurt people intentional, carry yourself in a respectful manners, help little old people and critters in need – and are worthy of being retained as you reinvent yourself.

 

the rest, which are identities and roles forced upon you by others who want you in a fixed spot so they can make sense of THEIR lives, is bullshxt. Shake off what you don't want but keep those things that make you a better person. You don't have to live up to anyone's expectations but your own, and if you create a harmonious balance between those good things your folks tried to instill in you with the man or woman you want to be, you live more at peace with yourself.

Great post, Q! I think this applies to people other than your family, as well. See, my parents accept me 100% and love me exactly the way I am while being aware of my faults, but they are gentle with them, they try to help me surpass them, and don't give me this you're-worthless comments. But I've discovered that strangers see me as different and it's unforgiveable in this world to be different. I am not submissive, I have my own opinions, dignity, and values, and while that might be attractive on LS, in real life it has brought me more enemies than friends. People generally like someone who is not a threat for their image of themselevs. They don't like to see someone who finds that there is more to life than what they think. I always attract attention and people have always been busy digesting my life and my personality. While this may seem like something you'd want, it usually is 90% bad and only 10% good. I don't get the attention where I want to.

 

So to sum it: being yourself is the most difficult thing you'll experience in human relations. Just look at the career experts web sites - they all teach you how to impress someone. Employers and managers know that people fake everything. They know it very well. But they are focing you tro fit in and become their slave as in 'you'll act the way we - your masters - want you to behave. Don't even think of being yourself when you're in my territory!'

 

People encourage fakeness in others, because it's rewarded with acceptance. Individualism is punished and discriminated against. Being yourself means being a lone wolf, even if you're very sociable - like myself. If I could find people who are similar to me, I would have hundreds of friends. But I rarely meet someone who is on the same wave lenght. I've met a few people online, but in real life, I would never get the chance to get to know them well, let alone that I would never even end up visitng their citites, not to mention meeting them on some occasion.

 

Knowing (and understanding) what you can - and what you can't - is the key to a happy life.

It's easier to have hope that you CAN than accept that you can't. Most people, if they were presented with a scenraio of how their lives would develop, at age 25 would commit a suicide immediately. Even at 35, they still hope for something more. Even at 45... but as we age, our hopes become weaker and the cruel reconciliation with ytour destiny becomes painful. Where is the line between accepting the reality and setting for less? What happens to our dreams and persistent faith as the only key to achieving our goals?

 

Of course, you said "knowing" what you can/can't, which assumes you actually have to KNOW. And this brings us to the question: am I who I think I am and can I do what I think I can do? Or is my father/mother/friend/society right when they can't see anything good in me?

[whichwayisup]

what is CBT?

 

RP I guess you don't read my anxiety posts and replies to others about CBT! LOL.

 

CBT is cognitive behaviour therapy. It's a great type of therapy that helps people who suffer anxiety disorders, depression, OCD, etc.. I do CBT and it's helped me work through my anxiety.

[GoldPenny]

Good posts from two responders!!!

 

Johan, may I add that it takes 30 days straight to make or break a habit? (Some psychologists say it goes up to 5-6 weeks straight). These 30 days ( or 5-6 weeks) will feel, of course, unnatural, binding of the animalistic or civil fixed impulses, and even awkward, because you have to think in a new different way. Then after this "boot camp period," it'll even start to feel unnatural to go back to your old ways.

[magichands]

Good posts from two responders!!!

Was I one of them? Well, was I??

[Ariadne]

Hey Johan,

 

I could relate to many things in your post.

 

The way I see it, things that are important to my father are just not important to me.

 

We simply have different values.

 

I think a lot of things he does don´t make any sense to me. Say, we are at the beach right now, at their beach house, and every morning I sit on the sand to have a cup of coffee and watch the sun reflected on the water, then I take a dip in it at sunset time when it´s warm.

 

He hasn´t even touched the water since we got here or even paused at looking at it... he´s been busy fixing stuff. Go figure.

 

Ariadne

[Storyrider]

People who don't really know me really like me.

 

There is someone out there who will just love you more, the more she gets to know you.

 

when things get personal, I've got nothing to offer.

 

There is someone out there who will peel away layers, and see more and more, the deeper she gets.

[johan]

Hey, everyone. THANKS for all the replies.

 

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately, and I'm always kind of surprised at how my mind works. Rarely to my advantage, but it's interesting anyway.

 

I know that many of my thought patterns I've had since I was a kid. It's hard for me to say whether it was conditioning or just a natural tendency.

 

All I know is that if I'm going to get past all this crap and take control of my life so that I can live the way I want, I need to find a way to stop being so hard on myself about stuff.

 

I have almost everything I could ever want. I'm seriously fortunate in life. It's such a contradiction that I could feel so powerless sometimes. I know that a few simple words and actions are all that keep me from completing the picture. And I don't know why I'm so frozen up. Fear of something.

[magichands]

Fear of something.

Fear of copyright infringement?

[magichands]

OK. I had another thought. Is it fear of becoming a gay icon?

 

I wouldn't worry about it. It really hasn't hurt me at all. I'm still able to get more than my fair share of action. Even if I have to put it down to them getting frustrated during my legendary slumber parties. Being a temporary distraction is better than nothing.

[johan]

OK. I had another thought. Is it fear of my legendary slumber parties.

 

No. But you seem to only invite men.

[lonelybird]

I know that a few simple words and actions are all that keep me from completing the picture. And I don't know why I'm so frozen up. Fear of something.

Complete what picture?

This could be a changing point of your life....

Do you consider spiritual healing?

[RecordProducer]

CBT is cognitive behaviour therapy. It's a great type of therapy that helps people who suffer anxiety disorders, depression, OCD, etc.. I do CBT and it's helped me work through my anxiety.

Oh, I see. Thanks.

 

Good posts from two responders!!!

Do you know which two or do you still wonder?

 

Johan, may I add that it takes 30 days straight to make or break a habit?

Cool. Eight more days and I'll be off libido.

 

 

Was I one of them? Well, was I??

I heard a rumor that he'll tell us in a PM.

 

Hey, everyone. THANKS for all the replies.

Why does this sound like "THANKS, but no thanks" to me?

[bluetuesday]

I think it's often a cop out, cliche, pop psychology ploy to blame every problem you have on your parents.

 

true, or to blame every problem on anything other than yourself. if something bothers you, it's because it bothers YOU, not because it is objectively bothersome. the evidence for this is that people react to things in different ways. two people can both lose a job they love. for one it marks the turning point of when everything started going wrong. for another it marks an opportunity to do something else the might equally love. EVERYTHING is rated good or bad according to how an individual sees it. so it becomes nonsense to talk about people doing things TO YOU. the truth is that if you're exposed to negativity, it is up to you in every instance whether you let it effect you negatively.

 

I've heard of people who have been in therapy for years, and just wonder if they've achieved anything at all. And I know people who are always looking for someone to blame for how their lives are. I know people who rush to the medicine cabinet for quick fixes.

 

you've just described 98% of the population. most people don't take genuine responsibility for their lives. there is a reason for this - it's easier to blame other people for how your life turns out. it means you don't have to change. there are some people who have terrible stories but it's still possible to overcome anything. your mind can only fool you into accepting that it's not your responsibility while you let it.

 

When you're an adult, then it's your problem to fix. It doesn't matter anymore what Dad has to say.

 

ah, i see you know this already. translating it into actions is hard though, huh? i know it is. but all it really takes is a decision and the determination to see that decision through.

 

When you know that a parent is and always was disappointed in you. When you know that you never really measured up, and you remember so many instances where you could have proven yourself but failed. When you can't really remember any times when you impressed them, and there is no bragging about you. Even when you really have achieved things in life.

 

let me say this straight. your dad is disappointed in you? SO WHAT. there comes a time when our parents skewed expectations have to be put to one side. your dad isn't a perfect guy. his expectations of you are very less than perfect. so why are you so bothered about fulfilling them? his disappointment is his own burden, it isn't your problem, johan. some parents wanted girl children and for a lifetime try to make their boys suffer for not being what they truly wanted. if you can see the futility in that, it is only a small step from seeing that your dad's expectations are just as ridiculous. you are your own man. what other people expect is totally irrelevant and fulfilling desires other people have is not your problem.

 

And when you've always shared that disappointment, how do you ever get rid of it?

 

you share the disappointment because you feel obligated to be the sort of man your dad would be proud of. that is a fault in your psychology, it has nothing to do with your dad or your upbringing. you say on one hand you want to take responsibility, and then you turn around and say

 

You could rationalize it and look at yourself objectively, but that doesn't change those fundamental beliefs you've been carrying with you since you formed your identity.

 

do you see there is a contradiction here? you are saying you want to take responsibility but that you can't change your identity. one of those statements has to be wrong. and bear in mind that the identity you talk of is a pseudo-identity. it is the identity that has been scribbled onto the film over that blank sheet of paper i talked of in my first post. it is not the real you. that guy is underneath and unaffected by expectation or disapointment. uncovering that guy is very far from impossible.

 

But the fact remains that who you've always been adds up to who you are now in the eyes of your family. You can't go back and re-live your life and alter what happened. The time for proving yourself has passed.

 

you have nothing to prove, johan. wanting to prove something shows that what your family or anyone else thinks about you is intricately tied up with what you think about yourself. this is called co-dependency. you need their approval, and living without it would be too hard. is that the truth? because if it is, very little of what i'm saying will be of use to you.

 

going back and reliving your life would be of little benefit unless you knew then what you know now. and if you change and your family don't accept the change... what? you'd go back to how you are now?

 

consider your options. you can take back control of your life and become who you want to be. that means you will be free from other people's expectations, free to let people get close to you, free to love without fear. or you can carry on. right now, you're scared. you see what you can't have and think the person you can't avoid being means you can never have it. i understand that thinking, but you must understand that it's an illusion. there is nothing whatsoever holding you back from being the man you want to be, except your belief that you can't be anyone else than the man you are now.

 

And it's what others think that needs to be my priority.

 

i hope after reading the rest of this post, you will revise this thinking. it is NEVER what other people think that 'needs' to be your priority. for a start there is no 'need'. you have a choice. you don't have to live in any particular way.

 

I had my chance to become a man. Now I just am one, and for better or worse, the man I am is based on what I did when I came of age. That only happens once.

 

defeatist bullsh*t. the man you are today is the man you have chosen to be today. you want to be a different man tomorrow? make better choices, johan. that is the whole truth.

 

You're supposed to become an ever better person as you age. You're supposed to learn and overcome things.

 

there is no supposed to. but yes, many people do learn from their mistakes and naivety. i hope you will be one of them.

 

Any rut you find yourself in now is just going to limit you later on.

 

ggggrrrrrr. if anything limits you later on, it is because you have CHOSEN to let it. this is simplifying it, because there is more than one reason that people keep repeating certain patterns. it's partly habit and partly because they know no better, but there are other reasons too a little too indepth to go into here. i can if you like, but you'll have to let me know.

 

look, i realise i'm saying the same thing over and over again, but within your posts you are repeating over and over again why you think you can't make your life better.

 

But under the surface, when things get personal, I've got nothing to offer. Not as long as I'm just a disappointment. I'll keep them far away, and I'll cut them off. I'll avoid them and do what I want to do on my own.

 

you have many things to offer, you just don't believe it. it scares you to have people know enough about you that they might get disappointed, so you push them away first before they can dig deep enough to find your flaws. i'm sad to say this is an all-too-common problem. but it's all in your head, johan. you ARE good enough. your ONLY problem is that deep down you lack belief in yourself because you have elevated other people's negative opinions of you to the status of 'truths'. you think they are right to be disappointed. you think you have somehow not been good enough and that you will never be good enough. you think the people making value judgments about you must be right.

 

I'm facing a life of solitude with random episodes of closeness with people who I don't really choose. I can't figure out what messages I need to give myself that will fix what I believe.

 

what you're facing is a test. life is offering you an opportunity to overcome your past. the challenge is to take it or not. taking it will mean reinventing yourself in your own eyes. it will mean stripping away other people's expections and coming to the conclusion that you are good enough.

 

not taking it will mean a few more years of same old same old, until life once again finds a way to make you take the same test. and so on and so on. people repeat patterns because they failed to learn the lesson last time. the great thing about tests is that once you've passed, you don't have to sit them again.

 

the messages you need to give yourself are littered throughout this answer. you need to first of all remove other people's power to affect you negatively. that means affirming to yourself that other people can only harm you with your permission. it also means realising that other people are far from perfect and there is no absolute standard they are measuring you against. when they make judgments they are doing it subjectively and often from positions of ignorance.

 

making a decision to be unaffected isn't just a one-time thing. you will need to repeat it to yourself every time you feel yourself agreeing with someone else's negative comments.

 

a good guide is to listen out for the running commentary in your head, those times when you speak to yourself. allow this commentary to go on, but seek to listen to it as if you were an outsider. it takes a bit of practice but you can do it. you will no doubt hear lots of negative things about yourself at first. you'll hear yourself tell yourself you can't do this, that or the other. you'll hear yourself call yourself names. you'll probably hear yourself convincing yourself of why life never goes the way you want it to.

 

listen objectively to how many times you are reinforcing a negative view of yourself, to yourself. you will be amazed. your goal is to stamp these conversations out whenever you become aware of them, and replace them with positive affirmations. tell yourself you can do... whatever it is. tell yourself that you are in charge. tell yourself that other people's expectations have no impact on you. it will take time, but you will notice that the negative voice eventually begins to quiet down. this is actually you silencing your ego, which is the force that wants to keep you from realising that you can do anything - because that way IT gets to make the decisions.

 

i'm not going to go into a discussion about the ego now. there is a lot more in that book i PM'd you about.

 

i would just add that a person changes only when their desire to change outweighs their fear of changing. you've got a lot of potential for change johan, that's clear from your post, but only you can determine whether you're prepared to face that fear yet.

[magichands]

Wow. What a post!

ggggrrrrrr.

I think she wants you, Johan.

the messages you need to give yourself are littered throughout this answer.

Maybe you could have put them in bold, or italics, or something. I mean, it's easy to get lost in there.

i'm not going to go into a discussion about the ego now.

I don't see how I'm relevant to this thread. Anyway, whatever you think will help.

i would just add that a person changes only when their desire to change outweighs their fear of changing.

If you don't change, she'll make more posts on your threads. Maybe even epics like this one. You'd better hurry up and grow some balls.

 

If you take away all my posts, this is a great thread. I am so thrilled to be a part of it.

[lindya]

People who don't really know me really like me. They think I'm smart and funny and cute. They even seem to think that I must live a very exciting life. But I don't.

 

Are you saying that people like you on the basis of superficial information they pick up about you? If so...well, it's better than people disliking you on the basis of their initial perceptions of you.

 

What happens when people who have liked you on first impressions get to know you better? Do they carry on liking you, or do they/you become angry and create some distance?

 

under the surface, when things get personal, I've got nothing to offer. Not as long as I'm just a disappointment. I'll keep them far away, and I'll cut them off. I'll avoid them and do what I want to do on my own.

 

What expectations do you suppose other people have of you that you don't feel able to live up to? Do you feel you have some kind of duty towards others that you're not fulfilling?

 

I'm facing a life of solitude with random episodes of closeness with people who I don't really choose. I can't figure out what messages I need to give myself that will fix what I believe.

 

Something in you is making you berate yourself with all kinds of negative messages and core beliefs - and I suppose, from what you said earlier in the thread, that that something is the memory of things you were told when you were small.

 

Recall some childhood scene where your father was berating you and making you feel like a "disappointment". How did you feel as a child? How would you feel as an impartial adult watching someone speak to their child in that way? Can you imagine calmly stepping in to protect the interests of that small child who's being made to feel not good enough?

 

I don't think childhood hurts ever go away completely, however much emphasis people put on the need to "get over it". You can, however, become a good parent to whatever's left of that child. Now let's all join hands and sing Kumbaya.

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

Johan,

 

Apropos your first post - and I know I'm simplifying this tremendously - you're not happy / satisfied with something.

 

Tell me, in 3 sentences, what that something is.

[johan]

I have too much of a preference for keeping myself isolated. I must have a phobia of some sort. It's not a fear of failure. It's more about having someone getting pissed at me or making fun of me. Which sounds stupid to write down, but it's true. It's like I don't think the world is a friendly place and I'd rather just stay out of it. No one I know or have ever known has this problem.

[luvtoto]

you have nothing to prove, johan. wanting to prove something shows that what your family or anyone else thinks about you is intricately tied up with what you think about yourself. this is called co-dependency. you need their approval, and living without it would be too hard. is that the truth? because if it is, very little of what i'm saying will be of use to you.

Whoa...very interesting!

[luvtoto]

I have too much of a preference for keeping myself isolated. I must have a phobia of some sort. It's not a fear of failure. It's more about having someone getting pissed at me or making fun of me. Which sounds stupid to write down, but it's true. It's like I don't think the world is a friendly place and I'd rather just stay out of it. No one I know or have ever known has this problem.

Uh...*raises hand*. I can relate very well to that statement, Johan.

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

I have too much of a preference for keeping myself isolated. I must have a phobia of some sort. It's not a fear of failure. It's more about having someone getting pissed at me or making fun of me. Which sounds stupid to write down, but it's true. It's like I don't think the world is a friendly place and I'd rather just stay out of it. No one I know or have ever known has this problem.

 

Thanks for replying, I know I've posted in this thread late. Now, I'm just going to try and post my thoughts on here, because this situation doesn't have a definite solution. That's also the reason I'll use "we" instead of "you".

 

 

I think the "phobia" of having someone getting pissed at you or making fun of you is, in itself, a fear of failure.

 

I know that isolation can become an addiction, a habit. So, do we prefer isolation because we fear we'll piss someone off, or is it because we fear someone will piss us off?

 

Perhaps we fear ourselves failing in terms of adjusting to other people, and accepting that our life may actually be shared? We know that beyond a point, if we continue closely associating with a person(s), we will have to "live up" to their expectations and desires. Then we'll have to accept them, however irritating or dumb some of their habits are. We'll also have to accept their irritation or "ridicule" at our thoughts and actions.

 

Maybe that's what we are not ready to do? The present situation is that of having a large "outer circle" and almost non-existent "inner circle", in terms of one-on-one association.

 

Changing that situation will require changing a our present tendencies of constant self-defence. Perhaps we can learn to accept that it's not always going to be a perfectly harmonious existence. It's okay to let some of our choices be set by someone, it's okay to let them have expectations.

 

If we fail, they will be angry with us and tell us that we aren't all that great. Well, so what if they get pissed? So what if we have to eat humble pie and change ourselves a bit to make things better? It's not the end of the world.

 

Of course, the most important thing is to recognize which ones are worth keeping in the "inner circle".

 

 

Those are my thoughts for the time being...

[Storyrider]

I can also relate to not wanting to get emotionally attached to people for fear they will dissappoint me or I will dissappoint them.

 

I will find excuses why I can't get close to someone. They have more money than me, they have different politics, religious practices, live too far away, haven't read the right books, etc.

 

Books are a safe substitute for relating to people. If they dissappoint me, I can stop reading them. And they don't expect anything from me at all.

 

I think you're far from alone in these feelings, johan.

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

I can also relate to not wanting to get emotionally attached to people for fear they will dissappoint me or I will dissappoint them.

 

I will find excuses why I can't get close to someone. They have more money than me, they have different politics, religious practices, live too far away, haven't read the right books, etc.

 

Books are a safe substitute for relating to people. If they dissappoint me, I can stop reading them. And they don't expect anything from me at all.

 

Well said.

[luvtoto]

Books are a safe substitute for relating to people. If they dissappoint me, I can stop reading them. And they don't expect anything from me at all.

TV is a safe substitute for relating with people, also. I don't have to get involved...but, yet I have some company.

[This_Too_Shall_Pass]

TV is a safe substitute for relating with people, also. I don't have to get involved...but, yet I have some company.

 

I resort to both these forms of escapism frequently.

[Storyrider]

TV is a safe substitute for relating with people, also. I don't have to get involved...but, yet I have some company.

 

LS has become my substitute for TV and talk radio. I like to think it requires a little more relating at least. But it is certainly "safe" compared to face-to-face.

 

I think many of my outer circle (as TTSP called it), think I am a little nutty because I hang back and find ways of not getting close. I sometimes think I should fix it. Then I think I like it that way.

 

I wonder if I don't invite people over because my house is messy, or if I keep my house messy so I can't invite people over.