Guest Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Is it possible to be an honourable OW, or is it a misnomer? Well, I think we should have a code of conduct... * We do not enter the Ws home, (or bed!!) * We are discreet at all times * We will not attempt to contact MM when he is with W * We will not meet the children * We will not discuss the W, or personal details about their lives * If D Day arrives, we will not enter into catfights or slanging matches * If D Day arrives, we will not tell direct lies to the W, but will refer her back to her H, if we do not wish, at that time, to disclose the whole truth. * We will not engineer a D Day What do you all think? Of course, some would say I shouldnt be in the A at all, and they would be right, but the fact is I am, and I love him, and right now, I cant stop seeing him, and he cant stop seeing me. So all I can do is try damage limitation. I would never set out to inflict further pain and humiliation. As for thr OTHER forum, it really disgusts me that some OWs get a kick out of laughing at the W and causing more trouble than is necessary.
Seen_It_All Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 .... right now, I cant stop seeing him, and he cant stop seeing me. You'll be amazed at how QUICKLY that will change when his wife catches ya'all.
Lezbean Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 I'm sorry but there is nothing honorable about being an OW.
whichwayisup Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Lezbean is right, it's not honourable at all. All your list does is justify your actions on staying in an affair.
PoshPrincess Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 You'll be amazed at how QUICKLY that will change when his wife catches ya'all. That IS true in most cases. When DDay came for me and exMM we carried on seeing each other quite a while and although he wanted to be with me (at the time - but not enough to leave of course), things changed as, naturally, W wasn't going to fall for all the crap excuses this time! I agree with Guests Code of Honour list though; it was pretty much how I conducted my R with MM but no, seeing someone else's H/W is a pretty dishonourable thing to do all round.
frannie Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Hmm, I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of dead-horse flogging on this thread. Of course it's a misnomer. Are there going to be any responses that don't at least acknowledge that..? *shrug*
torranceshipman Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Really, I think the honourable thing is to stop telling lies, full stop - the OW is only there because in most cases the MM has spun a huge web of lies - he couldnt care less about anyone but himself, lets be truthful! - and he relies on the OW being so considerate, kind, respectful of not overstepping boundaries, trying to save the W's feelings and putting herself last...but doing EVERYTHING in his power to seduce her to stay with him in some capacity (remember these guys will pretend they are getting a divorce, anything) -and if the OW comes clean with everyone, then the lying stops and the MM has to take responsibility for his actions. Sure you might lose him but if you do, you've seen his true colours...and the lying stops. And if I was married, I'd want to know if my husband was having an affair...the OW, in my opinion, is not the one who should be singled out here, its the MM (or MW) who is the manipulative liar, and he should be stopped from repeatedly lying to and hurting his W and OW - but you can't make that happen if you remain complicit in a lie. The other point - do the honorable thing for yourself, and decide what is best for your emotional wellbeing and health - put yourself first as I am guessing a lot of OW's take a hell of a lot of weight on their shoulders without ever complaining and its a nightmare for them. Why should they? It sucks that a MM would cheat on his W but many OW are tricked into it or really manipulated and by the time they realise this, they need to find the best way out of it that they can, and put themselves, not the W first (I don't mean that in a cruel way, just in a self-respecting way). In this situation, why put a MM, a W, their kids and God knows what else before you, after you were lied to in order to be trapped in your situation? Put yourself first and do whatever you feel you need to do, to look after yourself the best way that you can.
Audero Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Really, I think the honourable thing is to stop telling lies, full stop - the OW is only there because in most cases the MM has spun a huge web of lies - he couldnt care less about anyone but himself, lets be truthful! - and he relies on the OW being so considerate, kind, respectful of not overstepping boundaries, trying to save the W's feelings and putting herself last...but doing EVERYTHING in his power to seduce her to stay with him in some capacity (remember these guys will pretend they are getting a divorce, anything) -and if the OW comes clean with everyone, then the lying stops and the MM has to take responsibility for his actions. Sure you might lose him but if you do, you've seen his true colours...and the lying stops. And if I was married, I'd want to know if my husband was having an affair...the OW, in my opinion, is not the one who should be singled out here, its the MM (or MW) who is the manipulative liar, and he should be stopped from repeatedly lying to and hurting his W and OW - but you can't make that happen if you remain complicit in a lie. Very well said. Not that OW who go into this knowing it is a MM don't deserve the blame, but too many people focus on her and NOT the MM. He is the one who is lying to everyone involved, manipulating them, and setting the stage to hurt many people. The other point - do the honorable thing for yourself, and decide what is best for your emotional wellbeing and health - put yourself first as I am guessing a lot of OW's take a hell of a lot of weight on their shoulders without ever complaining and its a nightmare for them. Why should they? It sucks that a MM would cheat on his W but many OW are tricked into it or really manipulated and by the time they realise this, they need to find the best way out of it that they can, and put themselves, not the W first (I don't mean that in a cruel way, just in a self-respecting way). In this situation, why put a MM, a W, their kids and God knows what else before you, after you were lied to in order to be trapped in your situation? Put yourself first and do whatever you feel you need to do, to look after yourself the best way that you can. I agree. In an A, the OW is often being treated second best, and no one should live that life. Getting out of the A, ending it, and finding someone who is single & available, who will love only you, is really the way to go.
Jinxx Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Is it possible to be an honourable OW, or is it a misnomer? Well, I think we should have a code of conduct... * We do not enter the Ws home, (or bed!!) * We are discreet at all times * We will not attempt to contact MM when he is with W * We will not meet the children * We will not discuss the W, or personal details about their lives * If D Day arrives, we will not enter into catfights or slanging matches * If D Day arrives, we will not tell direct lies to the W, but will refer her back to her H, if we do not wish, at that time, to disclose the whole truth. * We will not engineer a D Day What do you all think? Yes of course an affair is wrong. But still.... we are human and we make mistakes -- can't help who we are attracted too. All of the above "code of conduct" is bascially how it was with MM (I think XMM now but never officially ended it) with the exception of D day never arriving. Plus, I know his children and his wife (so do my kids). And I know some very personal details about his wife which aside from finding about our relationship, the type she most definitely would end the marriage over. Why he felt the need to discuss that with me I have no friggin idea.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 OFCOURSE IT IS! Just as it is possible to be an honorable serial killer, child abuser, thief, liar, manipulator, ect... Its all in how you justify it to yourself and as we ALL know when you want something really really bad you can convince yourself of all kinds of reasons that prove that you deserve this thing. You are taling about a CODE, hell even t he mafia has a code! Make your silly rules, then break your silly rules but you will always consider yourself honorable for you were doing what made you happy. You are HONORING you! No harm in that! Of course everyone else can see through your flimsy justification but it doesn't matter what they think!
whichwayisup Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 we are human and we make mistakes -- can't help who we are attracted too. Yes, but we can control our actions.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Yes of course an affair is wrong. But still.... we are human and we make mistakes -- can't help who we are attracted too. LOL, who or what, so if your attracted to say a diamond ring in a store it's ok to take it? Even if the Diamond wanted YOU too! HMMMMM! My son is told everyday t hat he cannot go out to play until homework is finished. Yesterday I see him outside and ask if the homework is finished. No is the answer. I told you that you may not play until it is finished. "BUT I wanted......" "Just because you want something son doesn't mean that you don't have to follow the rules, they are there for a VERY GOOD REASON!" I hope that I am able one day to convince him of this so that he doesn't have to convince himself as an adult that his dishonorable actions are honorable!
herenow Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 OFCOURSE IT IS! Just as it is possible to be an honorable serial killer, child abuser, thief, liar, manipulator, ect... Its all in how you justify it to yourself and as we ALL know when you want something really really bad you can convince yourself of all kinds of reasons that prove that you deserve this thing. You are taling about a CODE, hell even t he mafia has a code! Make your silly rules, then break your silly rules but you will always consider yourself honorable for you were doing what made you happy. You are HONORING you! No harm in that! Of course everyone else can see through your flimsy justification but it doesn't matter what they think! Great post IWWH! My response to guest. Yes, it's a misnomer! You obviously have no problems with what you are doing. You have come up with a code that makes it all OK. So, it's all good for you. What do you expect to get from this post?
MySugaree Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Last time I checked, under non-Sharia based legal systems, adultery is neither the legal nor moral equivalent to child abuse , serial killing, etc. To pronounce such idiocies reduces serial murder and child abuse, both of which are horrific crimes, to the mere mundane. The fact is an Affair is not uniform and cookie-cutter:It's not one size fits all. It's a relationship comprised of human beings with individual differences. Affairs can, and should, be conducted in ways that minimize harm to others. To ignore or slight this self-evident fact is to allow moral oneupmanship trump common sense. Yes, in the best of all worlds, there would be no extra-marital relationships. Everyone will marry, remain faithful and die at a ripe old age in monogamous bliss. But that's not how the real world works:never has, never will.I applaud this poster's attempts to limit the harm. One can do so without countenancing the conduct.
a4a Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 who is being shown the honor? MM? BS? honor and affair........ honor and cheating..... honor and deception.... I cannot see how any of those words/actions can coincide.
herenow Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 But that's not how the real world works:never has, never will.I applaud this poster's attempts to limit the harm. One can do so without countenancing the conduct. Ok, big words, I'll bite. When one condones or approves of an affair and therefore decides to keep it a secret, they are causing the harm. To say that concealing the affair is any less harmful than telling the truth is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. This posters attempt to "limit the harm", removes the reality in her mind that a BW and family exists and are being betrayed. The only person this code serves is the OW. If you read her "code of conduct" she is basically saying that she doesn't want to hear anything about or see the MM family and therefor, she is limiting damage. Ludicrous at best! In the end someone will be hurt, and no matter how much this guest closes her eyes to the fact the man has a wife and family, they are real and the pain will be real no matter how she tries to sugar coat it. I'm sure she will see the light when she is the one that's hurt. I wonder what she will do to minimize the damage then.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 . Affairs can, and should, be conducted in ways that minimize harm to others. To ignore or slight this self-evident fact is to allow moral oneupmanship trump common sense. I applaud this poster's attempts to limit the harm. One can do so without countenancing the conduct. LOL, why minimize the harm that one is intentionally inflicting. Someone has the right to decide on the degree of harm inflicted upon others. FOR WHAT PURPOSE? It is beyond me why all OW don't just have the BS knocked off. There are many people who's moral codes allow them to use "common sense" to justify their actions. We call them psycopaths. Next t ime I decide to interfere in someone elses life and to cause them and their family considerable harm then I will be SURE to attempt to limit the harm to them (as I see that they deserve, based on my own personal moral codes) Hopefully though the OW choose their BS's wisely, one without much of a personal moral code or heck one who is no so psychologically sound might become dangerous and choose not to minimilize personal harm to the intruder. Ofcourse that would be DISHONORABLE, but who are we kidding, it might just FEEL really really GOOD!
herenow Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Last time I checked, under non-Sharia based legal systems, adultery is neither the legal nor moral equivalent to child abuse , serial killing, etc. To pronounce such idiocies reduces serial murder and child abuse, both of which are horrific crimes, to the mere mundane. BTW, just in case you haven't been reading the paper or watching the news over the past few months, or ever, the effects of affairs have caused murders, suicides, severe depression, etc, and affairs have actually been considered spousal and child abuse in some cases. Don't minimize the pain that affairs cause. Some people have said that when they found out about their spouses betrayal, they felt the worst pain they have ever felt. To say that the pain cause by an affair is mundane is disrespectful to humanity. If you don't want to believe a BW, ask any OW or OM that has been hurt by an affair, I'm sure they won't describe what they are feeling as mundane.
Salicious Crumb Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Is it possible to be an honourable OW, or is it a misnomer? Well, I think we should have a code of conduct... * We do not enter the Ws home, (or bed!!) * We are discreet at all times * We will not attempt to contact MM when he is with W * We will not meet the children * We will not discuss the W, or personal details about their lives * If D Day arrives, we will not enter into catfights or slanging matches * If D Day arrives, we will not tell direct lies to the W, but will refer her back to her H, if we do not wish, at that time, to disclose the whole truth. * We will not engineer a D Day All of those things you highlighted will not bring honor to your situation. The only way to be an honorable OW/OM is to realize that you made a mistake in dating/sleeping with a MM/MW...much less believing that they are trustworthy...and come to the realization that you know its wrong and need to get out of the relationship. I could at least respect someone that does that.
Salicious Crumb Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Yes, but we can control our actions. EXACTLY! There are plenty of women I am attracted to, but never would I cheat or even consider being with them if I wasn't married but they were.
Meredith63 Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 there is absolutely no honor in being an OW. None whatsoever. However, can we agree that there are different types of OW's? For example the types of OW who are truly in love with their MM and want forever vs OW's who homewreck just for sport? Is one worse than the other? Just something to think about....
Babybird Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Last time I checked, under non-Sharia based legal systems, adultery is neither the legal nor moral equivalent to child abuse , serial killing, etc. To pronounce such idiocies reduces serial murder and child abuse, both of which are horrific crimes, to the mere mundane. The fact is an Affair is not uniform and cookie-cutter:It's not one size fits all. It's a relationship comprised of human beings with individual differences. Affairs can, and should, be conducted in ways that minimize harm to others. To ignore or slight this self-evident fact is to allow moral oneupmanship trump common sense. Yes, in the best of all worlds, there would be no extra-marital relationships. Everyone will marry, remain faithful and die at a ripe old age in monogamous bliss. But that's not how the real world works:never has, never will.I applaud this poster's attempts to limit the harm. One can do so without countenancing the conduct. Very well said and I agree. Yes there can be a sort of honor in an A. I don't necessarily agree with not talking about the W or family. You would if you were in a legit R so why not? An A can't be compared to a serial killer or child abuse so yes I would call it mundane. I've had my heart broken and compared to those two things a heart break is child's play. Herenow: THere are so many things that can cause suicide, depression, etc that I wouldn't know where to start. Example: Sunshine, cause skin cancer, causes depression, causes suicide. Yes the pain is real but I would love to see the cases where an affair, a discreet and 'honorable' A, is considered abuse. Neglect: probably. If the affair is any other way...he/she is throwing it in the S face then I would call that stupidity if they stay long enough to have it considered abuse. Everyone has varying moral codes, and values. Because one disagrees with another doesn't mean that they are psychopaths. It doesn't mean they have low self-esteem, no values and are immoral. It's all based on what culture your in and what belief system you have for yourself. BTW: common sense says the marriage is going to end up as a divorce 60% of the time. With or WITHOUT an A.
pricillia Posted February 14, 2007 Posted February 14, 2007 Is it possible to be an honourable OW, or is it a misnomer? Well, I think we should have a code of conduct... * We do not enter the Ws home, (or bed!!) * We are discreet at all times * We will not attempt to contact MM when he is with W * We will not meet the children * We will not discuss the W, or personal details about their lives * If D Day arrives, we will not enter into catfights or slanging matches * If D Day arrives, we will not tell direct lies to the W, but will refer her back to her H, if we do not wish, at that time, to disclose the whole truth. * We will not engineer a D Day What do you all think? Of course, some would say I shouldnt be in the A at all, and they would be right, but the fact is I am, and I love him, and right now, I cant stop seeing him, and he cant stop seeing me. So all I can do is try damage limitation. I would never set out to inflict further pain and humiliation. As for thr OTHER forum, it really disgusts me that some OWs get a kick out of laughing at the W and causing more trouble than is necessary. So Guest it seems like you enjoy this Please!!! You say WE like all other women are one... Code of conduct?????? Probably the only code is to stop seeing him, and yes I am a OW struggling to end it. Why the heck would you sleep in thier bed??? that would be a no brainer, why do you need a code for that...
vanilla chai Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 Yes of course an affair is wrong. But still.... we are human and we make mistakes -- can't help who we are attracted too. quote] your right you can't help who your attracted to, but you don't have to act on those feelings
pricillia Posted February 15, 2007 Posted February 15, 2007 Yes of course an affair is wrong. But still.... we are human and we make mistakes -- can't help who we are attracted too. quote] your right you can't help who your attracted to, but you don't have to act on those feelings ah vanilla chai, so perfect as to do the right thing all of the time... the prfect blend of sugar and creme... oh but don't forget the tea... that never tastes bitter at all
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