forbidden fruit Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I met my mm yesterday and we both were feeling very guilty. I ended up being his therapist as he talked about he knows he has to leave his W, but wants to leave her because he wants to and not because of me. I told him I was leaving my H and not because of him , but because i have not been in love with in some time. For both of us there is so much history with our spouses. He talked about how badly his wife treats him and because i know her half of it is true and the other half is him and his actions. Anyways, he keeps asking me how this is going to play out because he wants to be with me, but isn't sure how . Is he one of those guys that needs someone there when he leaves her. He also told me something that really hurt me. He told me he loves me , but isn't sure to what capacity because he is still married. I told him I am married and I know I am in love with you. Is there any merit in this statement. I want to believe we have a shot, but then I think there is no way. so much has to happen for us to be together. I just think in the back of mind he will never leave,because most mm don't. He definately is not one of the stronger ones. He wants a month to figure it out. Is he blowing smoke and should I care with everything I have going on. I feel if he really wants to be with me he will find a way!!
frannie Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 He talked about how badly his wife treats him and because i know her half of it is true and the other half is him and his actions. eek. Is he not admitting his part in the problems..? And he's saying he's not sure how much he loves you..? And he's 'one of those who needs a safety net'. OK... well you have three good reasons here to back away and let him do some work before you even go there. I'd stand well clear... see what his actions are, if any. Because it sounds to me like even if he leaves... it will be all your fault.
Author forbidden fruit Posted February 9, 2007 Author Posted February 9, 2007 Hi Frannie i love your advice you have pegged him except for the fact that he has admitted his faults in the marriage. Should I go NC until he figures out what he is doing. I laid it out all the table he knows my feelings so now it is up to him. He is so guilt ridden of what him leaving is going to do and I still think he has not given her chance to make it right. Although I know her and she will not change even if he thinks she is losing him. So I guess i leave him alone until he can figure out. What do you think about the one month time line. Is that a line of bull to keep me on the string?
Audero Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Hi Frannie i love your advice you have pegged him except for the fact that he has admitted his faults in the marriage. Should I go NC until he figures out what he is doing. I laid it out all the table he knows my feelings so now it is up to him. He is so guilt ridden of what him leaving is going to do and I still think he has not given her chance to make it right. Although I know her and she will not change even if he thinks she is losing him. So I guess i leave him alone until he can figure out. What do you think about the one month time line. Is that a line of bull to keep me on the string? Can I chime in? Yes, the timeline is his way of stringing you along. IF the marriage was truly over, and he wanted out, he would be moving out as we speak. If he asks you to "hold on", "give him time", "be patient", the guy is stringing you along. He has no intentions of leaving, and you should walk away, to protect yourself.
frannie Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Ok well I'm glad he's admitting his part in the downfall of their relationship. Asking me about timelines... a month seems a pathetically small amount of time. I've been in this situation three years and he's still thinking about it. Still not sure. Still weighing up pros and cons. They can go on forever. In my honest heart I'd say... never wait. But sometimes, it works out. But a month is nothing... no time at all to decide anything. I have no clue, really. I don't think there are any rules. What I would like is for people who made it work to come and post their stories. Then we could all learn from those. Meanwhile, excuse me while I flounder hopelessly.
Audero Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I've been in this situation three years and he's still thinking about it. Still not sure. Still weighing up pros and cons. Dang. Do you seriously think he will ever leave? After 3 years, how can you continue fooling yourself into believing he will? And I am so not attacking you. I feel for you, as I was an OW too. But, frannie, chances are, as long as you continue to hold on, he will continue to make excuses. You deserve to be with a man to whom you are Number 1.....not second fiddle.
Kathleen Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Dang. Do you seriously think he will ever leave? After 3 years, how can you continue fooling yourself into believing he will? And I am so not attacking you. I feel for you, as I was an OW too. But, frannie, chances are, as long as you continue to hold on, he will continue to make excuses. You deserve to be with a man to whom you are Number 1.....not second fiddle. Audero, I waited over 5 years. I'm glad I did too. He is divorced now & we're together. It was hard to hold on that long but I feel it is so worth it now.
Audero Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Audero, I waited over 5 years. I'm glad I did too. He is divorced now & we're together. It was hard to hold on that long but I feel it is so worth it now. I'm not saying it is impossible. Just saying the chances are slim. Most MM having affairs do not actually end up leaving their wives. If I may ask, why did he make you wait 5 years?
addicted2love Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Audero, I waited over 5 years. I'm glad I did too. He is divorced now & we're together. It was hard to hold on that long but I feel it is so worth it now. Kathleen....did you ever go through the things some of us OW are experiencing. The stringing along, MM backing away...etc?
Kathleen Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I'm not saying it is impossible. Just saying the chances are slim. Most MM having affairs do not actually end up leaving their wives. If I may ask, why did he make you wait 5 years? He didn't make me wait, I chose to wait. I never pushed him to get a divorce & he didn't feel the need to run right out & file either. His xw has a steady bf now & I've been with him now for 7 years. He & his xw felt it was just a peice of paper. No big deal. He filed & it was finalized. And Audero, thanks for being so understanding. I am sure it's greatly appreciated.
Kathleen Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 Kathleen....did you ever go through the things some of us OW are experiencing. The stringing along, MM backing away...etc? Oh yes. Heartbreaking too. Almost all of what you & others went/go thru. Except him backing away. That was never an issue. Just an ei., he'd go to the marital shore home in the summer for 3 weeks, not consecutive, it was brutal on me at times. Anyway, yes I know all too well the pain. It just worked out for us. I wish everyone here happy endings too, in whatever situation you may be in!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Audero Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 He didn't make me wait, I chose to wait. I never pushed him to get a divorce & he didn't feel the need to run right out & file either. His xw has a steady bf now & I've been with him now for 7 years. He & his xw felt it was just a peice of paper. No big deal. He filed & it was finalized. And Audero, thanks for being so understanding. I am sure it's greatly appreciated. At the risk of highjacking this thread, let me ask this. From what you posted, it seems he wasn't even with his now-ex for quite sometime. Married on paper, but not living together. If that is the case, I don't consider that "cheating" anyway. The marriage is already over, even if the courts haven't yet stamped the paperwork.
Kathleen Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 At the risk of highjacking this thread, let me ask this. From what you posted, it seems he wasn't even with his now-ex for quite sometime. Married on paper, but not living together. If that is the case, I don't consider that "cheating" anyway. The marriage is already over, even if the courts haven't yet stamped the paperwork. I don't know. It was cheating. I was the ow for a little while. 2 years before he moved out of the marital home. So yes, he cheated & I was the ow. That's why I post here. Just trying to give advice & offer a shoulder.
whichwayisup Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I just wonder if you both went completely into NC mode (in the sense of talking personally and ending affair as I know it's impossible not to talk to him due to the fact he's a neighbour, so paths will cross) don't you (and him) feel that each of you OWE it to your own spouses to give your marriages the absolute best effort to see if it's salvagable? I mean, it seems neither of you have done this - Given your own spouses 100% focus, attention and love. To give it all a chance to see if the love is really there. History, family entwined, children involved, a whole life as you both know it - TO GIVE UP ON? Let's put it this way, if there wasn't an affair to begin with and NO MM in your life at all, would you still be thinking of leaving your husband and getting a divorce? Please, think about your answer honestly. You don't have to reply if you don't want to, it's just something you need to think about before jumping ship.
Meredith63 Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 but not for my MM to decide he was leaving his M. I don't really think I could have handled that. Plus - that would be too nebulous of a thing for me to deal with. I waited while he did X Y and Z, things he needed to do prior to leaving. I then saw action and concrete proof that X Y and Z were getting done. When Z was completed, he left. My opinion is only to wait if you know EXACTLY what you are waiting for, otherwise, it is a waste of your time. Easy to say, I know, but I think it is true.
Meaplus3 Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 I met my mm yesterday and we both were feeling very guilty. I ended up being his therapist as he talked about he knows he has to leave his W, but wants to leave her because he wants to and not because of me. I told him I was leaving my H and not because of him , but because i have not been in love with in some time. For both of us there is so much history with our spouses. He talked about how badly his wife treats him and because i know her half of it is true and the other half is him and his actions. Anyways, he keeps asking me how this is going to play out because he wants to be with me, but isn't sure how . Is he one of those guys that needs someone there when he leaves her. He also told me something that really hurt me. He told me he loves me , but isn't sure to what capacity because he is still married. I told him I am married and I know I am in love with you. Is there any merit in this statement. I want to believe we have a shot, but then I think there is no way. so much has to happen for us to be together. I just think in the back of mind he will never leave,because most mm don't. He definately is not one of the stronger ones. He wants a month to figure it out. Is he blowing smoke and should I care with everything I have going on. I feel if he really wants to be with me he will find a way!! Hi FB, I am not going to give you any advice here because of how much alike are situations are. I just want to you know that I feel for you, i know how difficult this is. Stay strong. AP:)
Author forbidden fruit Posted February 10, 2007 Author Posted February 10, 2007 I need to vent so badly . It has been one day since we were together and he said he was thinking about leaving, but yesterday I saw him at a dinner theater with his W and another couple. If he is so miserable what is he going out and why is he not having serious talks with his W? I told him not to contact me unless he wanted me to tell his W everything. So he has not called and when I saw him across the street he just looked at me and went inside. Why am I so bothered that he is finally going to not contact me. How could he tell me two days ago he wants to leave and now has a different story. My friend thinks he will come around like always after I calm down and that is when I need to be strong because he is never going to leave. He has hurt me so much and I want him to be hurting as much as me. My friend thinks when he finally realizes that you are serious about NC that is when he will realize he has lost you for good and then it will him like a ton of bricks. She says you should great satisification in knowing he has a loose cannon on his hands. He is dying because he has no idea what you are going to do. Any thoughts?
Audero Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 I need to vent so badly . It has been one day since we were together and he said he was thinking about leaving, but yesterday I saw him at a dinner theater with his W and another couple. If he is so miserable what is he going out and why is he not having serious talks with his W? I told him not to contact me unless he wanted me to tell his W everything. So he has not called and when I saw him across the street he just looked at me and went inside. Why am I so bothered that he is finally going to not contact me. How could he tell me two days ago he wants to leave and now has a different story. My friend thinks he will come around like always after I calm down and that is when I need to be strong because he is never going to leave. He has hurt me so much and I want him to be hurting as much as me. My friend thinks when he finally realizes that you are serious about NC that is when he will realize he has lost you for good and then it will him like a ton of bricks. She says you should great satisification in knowing he has a loose cannon on his hands. He is dying because he has no idea what you are going to do. Any thoughts? He is out with his W because that is what he is doing when he's not with you, telling you lies, and leading you on. At some point, he probably will come back around, but you would do well to tell him "no", and move on. If he truly doesn't want to be with her, and loves you, he will do what needs to be done....leave. But as long as he is allowed to have his cake and eat it too, he isn't being forced to make a choice. I know it hurts, I've been there. But you really are better off with NC, because he obviously is not making plans to leave her.
frannie Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 I need to vent so badly . It has been one day since we were together and he said he was thinking about leaving, but yesterday I saw him at a dinner theater with his W and another couple. If he is so miserable what is he going out and why is he not having serious talks with his W? I told him not to contact me unless he wanted me to tell his W everything. So he has not called and when I saw him across the street he just looked at me and went inside. Why am I so bothered that he is finally going to not contact me. How could he tell me two days ago he wants to leave and now has a different story. My friend thinks he will come around like always after I calm down and that is when I need to be strong because he is never going to leave. He has hurt me so much and I want him to be hurting as much as me. My friend thinks when he finally realizes that you are serious about NC that is when he will realize he has lost you for good and then it will him like a ton of bricks. She says you should great satisification in knowing he has a loose cannon on his hands. He is dying because he has no idea what you are going to do. Any thoughts? I think your friend is probably right(ish) about this. I think it's really great that you're doing NC in this way, not continuing in the affair, and letting the facts settle into his mind. He has a lot of thinking to do. At the same time he may just do this: get on with his life, however disatisfied he is with it, it is what it is. And people have a great capacity for living miserable lives when the alternative is a DIFFICULT path. Otherwise, why would anyone be in an affair? It's really difficult to end anything... and however much pain we're in, we still find it hard to walk away. Apply that to his marriage and see how it looks from there.
frannie Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 Dang. Do you seriously think he will ever leave? After 3 years, how can you continue fooling yourself into believing he will? And I am so not attacking you. I feel for you, as I was an OW too. But, frannie, chances are, as long as you continue to hold on, he will continue to make excuses. You deserve to be with a man to whom you are Number 1.....not second fiddle. If I could fool myself into believing he will leave in a few years (when the children are a little older), then I actually would consider staying in the Affair (sorry, folks) and waiting for him. It is, ironically, because I don't believe fully that he will leave, and I don't think I should put my life on hold for a possibility of happiness with him in the long-term, that I am having such a tough time of this. I know he loves me, and he doesn't love his wife. I know he wants to leave the marriage but he's extremely reticent to do this because of his fears surrounding the children. I know that he THINKS he will leave when the children are somewhat older. But I can't, with good conscience, follow that path. I think Affairs are wrong. I think there's a big enough risk of being discovered and hurting everyone. And I think that I don't want to wake up 5 years down the line having waited, only to find that he 'can't do it, sorry'. There's three good reasons for ending it. On the other hand, I love him, he loves me, and all I have to do is wait for him while he does 'the right thing' (in his view) by his children... it's very tempting. However, I've told him I can't do that with good conscience, and my conscience and fear of a poor outcome is what is making me unhappy. So either we end it or he leaves his marriage. I'm not suggesting that leaving his marriage is achievable right now at the drop of a hat, but he has to start working towards it now if we're to stay in contact. I just don't know any other way of dealing with this situation. Sorry for the thread/jack. Edited to ad: I've never felt 'second fiddle' to anyone in this relationship. Certainly not a wife he doesn't love. Only as far as I should be: second to his consideration for his kids. And if that offends people because he 'shouldn't be having an affair then' YES, I know.
Meaplus3 Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 I think your friend is probably right(ish) about this. I think it's really great that you're doing NC in this way, not continuing in the affair, and letting the facts settle into his mind. He has a lot of thinking to do. At the same time he may just do this: get on with his life, however disatisfied he is with it, it is what it is. And people have a great capacity for living miserable lives when the alternative is a DIFFICULT path. Otherwise, why would anyone be in an affair? It's really difficult to end anything... and however much pain we're in, we still find it hard to walk away. Apply that to his marriage and see how it looks from there. Frannie, I believe this to be so true, well said. He has a lot of thinking to do. At the same time he may just do this: get on with his life, however disatisfied he is with it, it is what it is. And people have a great capacity for living miserable lives when the alternative is a DIFFICULT path. AP
SetMeFree Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 I ended up being his therapist as he talked about he knows he has to leave his W, but wants to leave her because he wants to and not because of me. I told him I was leaving my H and not because of him , but because i have not been in love with in some time. For both of us there is so much history with our spouses. He talked about how badly his wife treats him and because i know her half of it is true and the other half is him and his actions. Anyways, he keeps asking me how this is going to play out because he wants to be with me, but isn't sure how . Is he one of those guys that needs someone there when he leaves her. I tried to be my MM's therapist as well. IMO, it's a very slippery slope...I realized that I couldn't be his therapist because there was no way in he** that I could be objective...my stake in the situation is way too high. My EMA has been going on for almost three years now. For the first 2 1/2 years, I was married as well. So I can really relate to your comment that there is so much history with your spouses. When my marriage was officially over thru the court system (my ex H and I hadn't had a true marriage in a very long time), I knew without a doubt that my marriage ending had nothing to do with the fact that I wanted a relationship with my MM...it ended independent of that. Unfortunately for you, it sounds like your MM can't say the same thing as you can...you are leaving your marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with your MM. There are red flags all over everything that he is saying to you and I think that if you don't go NC, as whichwasisup has suggested, there is the potential that you will get blamed along down the road if you do get together and he then decides that he didn't work hard enough on his marriage. I have a feeling that he will place the blame for that squarely on your shoulders. I've decided to go NC with my MM. I don't allow myself to think that it may work out with us. He has a lot of decisions that he needs to make and if I am at all involved in his life, he will not be able to make those decisions with a clear mind. So then I risk getting the blame along down the road if he begins to question if he did everything he could to save his marriage. You can't let it matter to you how badly his wife treats him...that is really none of your business...that is something that he and his wife need to work out between them. I really can relate to everything that you have said, and I know how difficult it will be to remain in NC. But IMHO, I really do think it's the best decision that you could make.
Author forbidden fruit Posted February 11, 2007 Author Posted February 11, 2007 I tried to be my MM's therapist as well. IMO, it's a very slippery slope...I realized that I couldn't be his therapist because there was no way in he** that I could be objective...my stake in the situation is way too high. My EMA has been going on for almost three years now. For the first 2 1/2 years, I was married as well. So I can really relate to your comment that there is so much history with your spouses. When my marriage was officially over thru the court system (my ex H and I hadn't had a true marriage in a very long time), I knew without a doubt that my marriage ending had nothing to do with the fact that I wanted a relationship with my MM...it ended independent of that. Unfortunately for you, it sounds like your MM can't say the same thing as you can...you are leaving your marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with your MM. There are red flags all over everything that he is saying to you and I think that if you don't go NC, as whichwasisup has suggested, there is the potential that you will get blamed along down the road if you do get together and he then decides that he didn't work hard enough on his marriage. I have a feeling that he will place the blame for that squarely on your shoulders. I've decided to go NC with my MM. I don't allow myself to think that it may work out with us. He has a lot of decisions that he needs to make and if I am at all involved in his life, he will not be able to make those decisions with a clear mind. So then I risk getting the blame along down the road if he begins to question if he did everything he could to save his marriage. You can't let it matter to you how badly his wife treats him...that is really none of your business...that is something that he and his wife need to work out between them. I really can relate to everything that you have said, and I know how difficult it will be to remain in NC. But IMHO, I really do think it's the best decision that you could make. Oh you are so right I know he would blame me for his kid being messed up if he left and and then blame me if he feels he did not do anything in his marriage. However, I know they have been to MC and still cannot resolve their issues. Not my problem. I feel like i have been the therapist, the ego booster, the nanny and the sex servant. My mom asked me what has he done for you and all I could answer with is that he makes me laugh and gives me some excitement. Like that is enough for me to give everything up and leave with him. Basically he has done nothing for me, but given me alot of pain and heartache. His friend asked him do I talk about his W in a negative way he said yes and his friend said that is not a good sign. The only reason I have said anything bad about her because I did not like her as a person before I got together with him and my opinion never changed regardless of what was going on with us. I agree this just makes it harder to be unbiased but when I talk to him I try to see both of their points of view. You are right it is their business and I am so glad to be out of the triangle. He will continue to complain about her until he dies because neither one of them will do anything to change. How sad and I feel sorry for his next ow who will have to hear the same rap. What a pathetic loser. Wow I am so mad!!!
Author forbidden fruit Posted February 12, 2007 Author Posted February 12, 2007 Day four of Nc and would love some words of encouragment. Today is good because I am speding the day with my H. I know mm will stay because I told him if he comes near me I will tell his W. How long do you think that will last and he is he just cooling me down like all the other times. I am trying to think of things to tell if and when he does come back. I was thinking of saying I gave you your time and now I am working on my H , my marriage and my family. Sorry your time has run out. Any thoughts?
MySugaree Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 eek. Is he not admitting his part in the problems..? And he's saying he's not sure how much he loves you..? And he's 'one of those who needs a safety net'. OK... well you have three good reasons here to back away and let him do some work before you even go there. I'd stand well clear... see what his actions are, if any. Because it sounds to me like even if he leaves... it will be all your fault. Good post; better advice. Listen.
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