My Girlfriend and Reciprocation of Gestures

[Krytellan]

I write this as much as an avenue for venting as anything else, who knows though, I might get good advice along the way. It's a moment I would love to be able to talk to someone but all of my friends live on the East Coast and are subsequently VERY asleep. So I do this...

 

The time has finally come for me when past is colliding with present, and is making what may otherwise be no deal, a rather big deal to me. I need outside perspective as I am too ingrained in the matter. I want to give the new person the benefit of the doubt but must hang on to past lessons. When something is bothering me, I have always either been very poor at, or been to much of a baby to hide it. Subsequently, once something starts nagging at me, it usually comes out shortly after in one way or another.

 

OK, for those not in the know, I divorced a woman who was emotionally abusive and who did nothing for me out of love. By the end of our relationship, it was so one-sided that it makes me sick and embarassed when I look back on it. However, I know that I should have seen signs of it early on but refused to. I am seeing the signs again and it is causing me much discomfort.

 

I like to do nice things for my girlfriend just because. I know a lot of the guys will tell me that's the problem, so we can just skip those posts and I'll assume them to be there. Anyway, in the midst of making Valentine's preparations for her and I, it occured to me that even though she is extrememly appreciative of the things I do and makes it very clear that she enjoys these things, I am not getting really anything back in that department. She loves me and our intimacy is absolutely no issue.

 

I'll make dinner for us when she's had a long day at work, I rub her neck most every night we are together (I have always hated that and do it anyway). I planned an "all about her night" after she returned ill from a business trip. I used to give my wife back rubs whenever she wanted them, then she would bitch about having to ask for them and would never return the favor to me even when asked. I do it for my girlfriend when she asks, but has never returned the favor to me (but I dont ask), she has mentioned wanting to give me a full body massage "later on in the night" several times, but it never happens because she gets tired early. I don't harass her about it. I almost always pay for meals that we get together, and she thanks me, but never insists on paying herself or even treating me to anything (there was once), and money is definitely no issue with her as she makes considerably more than me. I would just love for her to once insist on doing something for me. For example, I got us tickets to a basketball game last night. Couldn't she have paid my $2 MAX fair or bought my $4 hot dog at least? Something?

 

I could ramble with examples, the point is I treat her very well. I know I may forever pay for this but I refuse to accept that there isn't someone that I can do this with and not regret it. I'm starting to feel, however, that I'm being taken for granted. She thanks me all the time, but since I have started thinking about this, every time she thanks me it gets me more worked up about the issue. The thank you's are starting to become negative reminders of the issue to me. I want her to show me. A random little item that shows she thought of me. Taking me to dinner on her. Planning a special evening that is about me. I have never received these things from her. She has made breakfast and dinner on occasion and such, but she has yet to do anything special for me.

 

Talking to her about this is not the problem, I know I need to and will do this. The problem is that I have reached the point where I am not able to hide the frustration I have. I am meeting requests with teeth-grinding. Every thank you makes me whince. I absolutely NEED to get this out to her.

However...

 

We are 7 days from Valentine's Day and my birthday is four days after that. Apart from not wanting to ruin these occasions with this issue, I also feel that I owe it to her to wait and see what she does. I don't want what she does for me to be because of the talk, but rather I want to see where she is really coming from here. I want to give her the opportunity to do something special because SHE wants to do it. I want to believe that my worries are unfounded. However, I feel that I will lose it if we get all of the way through V-Day and I was the only one that planned anything nice.

 

I just don't know how well I will do at holding these feelings in that long. I am tumbling down the mountain and I don't know if I can hold off hitting the bottom that long. Every minute I can't talk about it eats me up. I want to wait, but don't know that I can. Talking about it now would cheapen anything she "may have" planned for the upcoming week and I don't want to do that because I want to believe she planned something. I mean, an I-Pod means nothing to me... show me.

 

Anyway I ramble and I suppose something I said here prompted thoughts from some of you. Am I being childish? Am I waiting needlessly? Help me because my head is too clouded and I'm too frustrated to think clearly.

[Raleuse]

I like to do nice things for my girlfriend just because. I know a lot of the guys will tell me that's the problem, so we can just skip those posts and I'll assume them to be there. Anyway, in the midst of making Valentine's preparations for her and I, it occured to me that even though she is extrememly appreciative of the things I do and makes it very clear that she enjoys these things, I am not getting really anything back in that department. She loves me and our intimacy is absolutely no issue.

 

to this point, everything is great. You don't doubt her love for you and you like doing things for her and she's got a different way to go about things - not everyone shows their love and appreciation the same way and we cannot control how they do it: THAT would be abusive.

 

I'll make dinner for us when she's had a long day at work, I rub her neck most every night we are together (I have always hated that and do it anyway). I planned an "all about her night" after she returned ill from a business trip. I used to give my wife back rubs whenever she wanted them, then she would bitch about having to ask for them and would never return the favor to me even when asked. I do it for my girlfriend when she asks, but has never returned the favor to me (but I dont ask), she has mentioned wanting to give me a full body massage "later on in the night" several times, but it never happens because she gets tired early. I don't harass her about it. I almost always pay for meals that we get together, and she thanks me, but never insists on paying herself or even treating me to anything (there was once), and money is definitely no issue with her as she makes considerably more than me. I would just love for her to once insist on doing something for me. For example, I got us tickets to a basketball game last night. Couldn't she have paid my $2 MAX fair or bought my $4 hot dog at least? Something?

 

You know, when I go back to see my parents and they start doing everything for me, I revert to my "child" mode and let them. If you give it all, people will take it but there is no rule that they have to give back. However, if it bothers you that much, I think you ought to point it out to her. She may not even have realised. As for not paying herself, maybe she doesn't want you to feel embarrassed or that she's showing off she's better off than you. I've always been told men hate to feel they have less money (or less anything) than women.

 

I could ramble with examples, the point is I treat her very well. I know I may forever pay for this but I refuse to accept that there isn't someone that I can do this with and not regret it. I'm starting to feel, however, that I'm being taken for granted. She thanks me all the time, but since I have started thinking about this, every time she thanks me it gets me more worked up about the issue. The thank you's are starting to become negative reminders of the issue to me. I want her to show me. A random little item that shows she thought of me. Taking me to dinner on her. Planning a special evening that is about me. I have never received these things from her. She has made breakfast and dinner on occasion and such, but she has yet to do anything special for me.

 

Again, you are asking her to show you she loves you the way YOU want her to show. It may just not be HER.

 

Talking to her about this is not the problem, I know I need to and will do this. The problem is that I have reached the point where I am not able to hide the frustration I have. I am meeting requests with teeth-grinding. Every thank you makes me whince. I absolutely NEED to get this out to her.

However...

 

Yes you should have a long time ago - before it became frustrating

 

Anyway I ramble and I suppose something I said here prompted thoughts from some of you. Am I being childish? Am I waiting needlessly? Help me because my head is too clouded and I'm too frustrated to think clearly.

 

I think you are being needy. I keep falling for or getting into relationship with men who are not demonstrative. Some of them are pretty dominant and even verbally abusive (belittling, criticising, etc.). All I want is to be loved as much as I love them but they can't show me, or worse, they show me quite the opposite. I try and control the way the are with me and I systematically fail. I am needy and that's why you come across as such to me. The reason why I'm such a failure when it comes to my relationships is one that should be dealt with in therapy, but maybe you just need to remember not everyone shows their love the same way.

[Krytellan]

So then is it a matter of playing the game of witholding until I get to the point that I think is fair?

What about timing? Should I wait or just bust it open now or just deal with it and stop paying for things and doing so many nice things?

[Ripples]

Why don't you take more of a back seat for a little while, see what unfolds? It can be difficult though, especially if it makes you feel good to do them.

 

You could tell her your concern, but, like you say, it could make you feel that anything she then does for you is done out of guilt/duty rather than because she wants to.

 

I'd be very careful to be very appreciative of what she does do for you, you know - positive reinforcement

 

Oh, and we share the same birthday

[Raleuse]

So then is it a matter of playing the game of witholding until I get to the point that I think is fair?

What about timing? Should I wait or just bust it open now or just deal with it and stop paying for things and doing so many nice things?

 

No I think you should talk to her NOW. Before it comes out nasty and she wonders what's happening because she probably has no clue. Try and not 'bust it out' tho. Stay rational and just say you feel it's a bit too one-sided and she doesn't show much appreciation in return and it concerns you. Then see whether she does make an effort for valentine and/or your birthday. When you do things for her - do them because you want to but don't expect anything in return. If you can't do this (I find this extremely hard) and find yourself feeling "neglected" again, she may not be the right person for you.

[ash519]

Wow..that made me feel bad. It hit close to home i guess.

 

I have been with my bf for almost 2 years, i love him with all my heart!!! He has been telling me lately how when it comes to certain things he does more for me than i do for him...especially when it comes to backrubs and stuff like that. He says that he now has to try NOT to rub me, he said it is usually like an automatic thing for him. Also, paying for things, he pays for dinners more often and cooks more. I just learned how to make hamburger helper! But I do a lot for him as well. I clean, i manage the money, i have sex with him (hahaha! JK. I do that for me too) etc.

 

What is my point...he did bring it to my attention. I am not saying I didnt recognize it before, but hearing it was different which is why i now try and make more food for him, pitch more money in, rub his feet more...i still have a ways to go, but i can see how it is obnoxious and I dont think you seem needy...you just want an 'almost' equal situation.

 

How long have you been with your gf?

 

Oh, also, I wasnt not doing these things out of lack of love...i love him more than i ever thought possible...i think i was just lazy, maybe a bit selfish.

[milvushina]

Hey dude,

 

I'm a little concerned that you're not giving an outward indication that anything is wrong. Instead you are looking to valentine's and your b-day almost like it is test for her to pass or fail.

 

I think that your gf probably does not realize it is irritating you. Maybe she's a bit spoiled and thinks it is natural for people to want to touch her and buy her things just because she's who she is.

 

I would not play a game of with-holding. I think you should gently remind her that you'd like reciprocation next time she asks for something. And ask her when you want something. It's only fair, she asks you, so she might think since you don't mention a back rub it is something you could take or leave. I'm a big proponent of asking for what you want. Sometimes if I am in a bad mood I'll ask my husband, "Will you say something comforting please?" I don't mope and wait for him to notice. And I don't think you should send her signals and wait for her to "get it." She sounds like a pretty nice girl just maybe a little spoiled or self important.

 

Anyway if I was you I wouldn't wait. Do you really think discussing this would be so stressful it would be ruining holidays and birthdays a week later? I think that is setting up for disaster. You don't say anything but get madder. Valentine's and your b-day comes and she does something nice for you, but you're feeling bitter and it doesn't compare to the effort you put into Valentine's Day for her. Just think you might be setting yourself up for disappointment, and unsuspecting gf doesn't even know you are wishing she would treat you sometimes. And then there will be an angry explosion. So just talk about it so you can enjoy the holidays and stuff too without all that pent up irritation.

[Kamille]

Step one: with the most seductive playful look in your eyes, tell her you want to cash in on those full-body massages one lovely saturday afternoon. Bring the massage oil. Have fun.

 

What you describe kind of resembles the relationship my ex and I had, where he would do everything for me, back rub included, and I always felt too tired to reciprocate. (One question: could she possibly be just that? Back then I was working on a thesis and my workload along with my stress level meant that I was always preoccupied or dead tired. If stress could be a factor, then perhaps you need to assess if it will always be so - or if it is something temporary, or something she can improve on.)

 

It eventually became an issue (and a huge one), because he eventually started feeling that our mutual actions meant that he loved me more than I loved him, and started 'testing' my actions. Whatever you do, don't do that! I kow it's hard not to go there.

 

The thing is, I did love him. A lot. And I remember telling him that he couldn't expect me to show love the same way he did. For me, see, love was about our interactions, laughing together, and not what we did for each other. Also we lived together and there were a lot of everyday little things that I did do 'for us' that I felt he took for granted. (grocery shopping, being home when he got home, hanging out with his annoying friends with a smile on my face).

 

I also think you two are in the original falling-in-love phase where it is kind of expected that the man will sweep the woman off her feet. She is likely swept off her feet. Now it is time for you to feel comfortable asserting yourself. Ask for that massage... And before you really start worrying, see what she does for Valentine's day and your birthday.

 

And also, have faith that you have learned a lot from your past relationship and that you will not let yourself be stuck in an unhealthy relationship again. Have faith in yourself and your decisions. You will know what to do.

[milvushina]

Oh, also, I wasnt not doing these things out of lack of love...i love him more than i ever thought possible...i think i was just lazy, maybe a bit selfish.

 

I think it is natural for people to be extra-nice early in the relationship. And then later on realize they really don't want to cook your dinner or rub your feet every single night. And if one partner is doing more, and they aren't complaining why should the one who is benefitting? The problem is, when one starts to get a sense of unfairness, and the other person would rather things continue the way they are than try to change their ways. Then they butt heads I guess.

 

I think it is great for Ash to try and make that effort. That's what it's all about. I would choose a guy who is not perfect but works on himself, over someone who's perfect. It's just important for Krytellan not to blow up angrily at his girlfriend, especially since she doesn't yet know how upset he is.

[Krytellan]

Thanks guys, that was very helpful. And thanks for the first-person experiences.

 

I know that I should not expect her to know what I'm thinking.

 

I know it's unrealistic to expect her to do things for me the way that I do because everyone is different.

 

And most importantly, I know she loves me very much because she makes it very clear to me with the way she acts with me and the things she says.

 

I guess since writing this and reading the responses, I have come to the conclusion that yes, I have chosen to put myself in the situation I'm in right now. Of the things that I do for her, she has asked for very little. Unfortunately, I have managed to focus negatively on what she asks of me because of the frustration from the other things... the things I brought on myself.

 

I don't know that I will bring this up to her as of yet, because she does treat me well, just not in the way that I think I would like. I may bring up to her in the near future that I like surprises and little shows of love too. As far as paying for things, I'll simply just stop doing it so much. I think the real issue here was that I wanted her to offer to pick up the tab more, but she doesn't know that and that isn't apparently going to happen. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. She isn't requesting that I pay for these things.

 

I think I will cash in one of those rubs over the weekend, and I'm sure she'll do it.

 

I guess most of all I just wish that I could find someone who treated me like I treated them... in the same ways. And someone who was as thoughtful as I am. Oh well...

[Krytellan]

This was so useful. I was able to get everything into perspective and realize what things are important and which are silly. It's funny to look back at the post and read it after everything is in perspective... so dramatic at the time

[ash8752]

If you love her and let her know these things (in a nice way) I am sure she could treat you just as you treat her. It is good that you plan on giving her a chance.

 

It is nice to see things in perspective, it's like "ah...", you know, a sense of relief.

 

My bf knows I get tired early....just the other day he mentioned how he realizes he has a small window of time with me after work and I know realize that before i get too tired I should do more for him. Not every day or anything, but more often.

[confucious]

Maybe dramatic at the time, yes - but I imagine it is still an issue??

 

I was with a girl for awhile who was inattentive in small ways - she also did things "wrong" (etiquette things, respect things) but mainly made me feel as if I was low on the importance scale - despite her effusive "I love you's". I would look to my buddies girl who always wanted to hear from him, was always excited to see him, rather than not wanting to see him but "thinking about him" when she was apart (what my gf always said). I told myself it was just the way she loved and that it was okay, people love and show love in different ways.

Fact is - it was not okay. I wanted more - A woman who could care more deeply, a woman who relished doing things with/for me, a woman who SHOWED me she loved me and not just TOLD me she did. Words are cheap and easy.

Since we split I have realized the choice was absolutely the best, I feel like I am doing something for me...deciding what I want and not settling for something I am uncomfortable with - I WANT that woman who is wild about me, and I will eventually find her.

I don't know if this has been helpful - but hope it can provide some food for thought.

 

Good Luck!~!!

[Star Gazer]

I agree with the parent-child comparison. You’ve given your all to her without any indication that you expect or even want anything in return. You don’t ask. She asks – she tells you want she’d like you to do to make her happy. She’s demonstrating to you that when you ASK, you get. You’re not asking, so… She can’t read your mind any better than you can hers.

 

Also, because she does make so much more money than you do, she might feel awkward paying for things – the bigger things, like dinner and tickets. Until recently, I always made significantly more than the guys I was dating – and while I loved showering them with events, dinners, etc., they begrudgingly accepted, and their egos ultimately ruined our relationship. So that’s a possibility too, depending on her previous experience with others in a similar financial situation as you are.

 

Now, I’m not sure if you’re needy or unreasonable here, so I have to give an example to figure this out. My BFs (I’m speaking generally here) have tended to be like you in the back/neck rubbing department, or going and getting me ice cream when I have a sore throat, letting me pick the movie we see, buying the basketball game tickets, etc. I don’t reciprocate in kind – that is, I don’t rub him back, I don’t get him ice cream, I don’t buy the tickets. Instead, I make sure my fridge is always stocked with food and beer HE likes (but I don’t), I let him control the remote, I’ll make him chicken soup when he’s sick, and I’ll buy the hot dogs and beer at the game. In addition, I might put a cute little love note in his jacket pocket for him to find later. Sneak a new CD he’s been wanting in his car. He probably WANTS me to rub him back, buy tickets, etc., but that’s not ME. Would those sort of behaviors satisfy you if they came from YOUR GF? Or are you getting upset because she’s not doing what you WANT her to do?

 

I too am very concerned that you’re not giving any indication to her that anything is wrong, that you have this frustration building up. She’s thanking you, being appreciative, and you’re wincing inside. You cannot possibly get mad at her after V-Day and your birthday if she fails the test you’re setting up for her.

 

I’m fairly certain that your GF has no clue that she’s upsetting you. You keep behaving in the same way, so she probably thinks the status quo is just fine.

 

Talk to her – as soon as possible.

[Sevenmack]

An Indianapolis writer once said his first maxim of life was 'you don't ask, you don't get.' Not that you get everything for which you ask, but that you won't get anything, including reciprocal treatment, if you don't. The whole point is that no one is a mindreader; you have to communicate with your lover to achieve a balanced relationship.

 

Now it's time for you to ask for what you want. In fact, you should have been asking from the moment you began dating. Being extra-nice is sweet, but it sets a pattern in which you give more than she does, leading to resentment down the road.

 

I know where Kamille is coming from; taking out the trash and shopping are signs of love. But they are also an obligation; there's nothing extra-nice about making sure that both you and your lover are fed because you live together. You need to keep an open mind and ear, listen to what she says. But you must also make it clear that she needs to do more and reciprocate more often.

 

Be gentle-but-firm in the discussion. Always tell her how much you care for her. But always ask and tell her what you need from her.

[Krytellan]

You guys rock. Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna tackle it tonight. I'll update you tomorrow hopefully.

[Walk]

Talk to your gf about this.

 

In my experience, I do things to "show" I love someone that mean something to ME. It doesn't always translate to "love" in the guys mind though. He might see it as something I do because I have to, or I'm doing it for myself, or whatever. No 2 individuals communicate exactly the same way, and in order to "hear" what's meaningful to you then you have to come to an understanding about what certain things "mean" to the both of you. How does she look at things, what meanings does she put behind certain things. Explain how you see them, and what you believe they mean. Then discuss it until both of you understand how the other thinks.

 

Talk to your gf. Talk now, and talk often. Don't just leave her in the dark and then get pissed she isn't doing it. She's telling you she loves you in ways that mean something to her. Probably doesn't translate into guy speech. So tell her what would make you happy and feel loved. Help her understand you. Don't just demand it, and then get pissed when she doesn't.

 

If you drop this and pretend it's all better now, the resentment and animosity will come back full force later, and it will rip your relationship apart.

 

Talk to her.

[CaliGuy]

This sounds like a classic case of "covert contracts."

 

Doing "nice things" for her in anticipation of having them returned. Sometimes you don't even realize you are doing it.

 

Read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and you'll understand the concept behind "covert contracts." I'm sure you doing things for these women because you love them and want them to be happy, but expecting nice things back in return, that's called manipulation.

 

My suggestion is you've found two women in a row who respond this way to your actions. Do you, perhaps just for a second, think that it might be you and not just them?

 

Just a thought.

 

Excellent advice, BTW, Walk. Communication is essential. And love is found in much different ways. Not everyone sees love the same way the OP does.