tanbark813 Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 StayClose: I've said this before in other threads like this but, like other male posters with this problem, you sound like you're too nice to her. If she's not pulling her weight in the relationship and not willing to discuss this or work to fix things, then why would you even consider doing anything for her for V Day? And why even ask her if it's "okay" if you masturbate to porn? Put your foot down and take a stand or she'll continue to call the shots. If you've been working the same job and she's the one who's caused the financial hardship, then it's not really her place to demand you find a better paying job because she can't hold her own. The credit thing is just an excuse. I don't want to call your wife any names, but we all know what women who trade sex for money are considered.
tanbark813 Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 Just wanted to say that I think there certainly is a pervasive attitude "out there" that what Tanbark and others are saying about "Men are always wrong in this situation" is true. And as a woman, who has been in a low-sex marriage, I too had this perspective for a time. Then I had one of the "Aha" moments (described in the other thread, How would you feel in a sexless marriage?) and I woke the f*ck up and realized I needed to get over myself and fix my part of the responsiblity for what was wrong (medically, physically, emotionally, whatEVER) with the no-sex thing and my M as a whole. And that things wouldn't get fixed if I didn't open my mind up to new perspectives and possibilities. There is nothing my H did or could have done to bring me to that point (other than general patience and love and just sticking it out with me). I just finally got sick of the whole dysfunctional situation and opened my eyes to the fact that maybe, just maybe, he wasn't the whole problem (you know the usual: he's just a horndog, he's just using me as a hole for sex, he doesn't really care, blah blah BLAH). Then I went on a mission to educate myself about what I had been feeling and what he was feeling and what could we/I do about it. It's amazing what new insights one can gain if you remember "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." (Mark Twain) Nice to see there are some rational women out there.
Author StayClose Posted February 8, 2007 Author Posted February 8, 2007 Have you explored the possibility that your wife feels like you're treating her like a blow up doll or sexual prop? Yes I have. Ironically, when she says "I will if you want to - please finish quickly" it ends up being that way. Freely make love to her is what I want to do. You say she doesn't have anything against all porn, but clearly she resents you mimicking porn in your sex life with her. I don't feel like I'm mimicking porn. I'm just talking about the kinds of normal sex I've been having on & off (mostly off) since I was a teenagar. I'm also not asking to do those things (we all know what they are) than are common in porn but not real life. She doesn't like you watching porn and masturbating at the same time to it because it feels like you're cheating to her. She also may feel like she's being replaced. I'm making it clear to her than having good sex with her is my preference and my first choice. I don't think it's cheating when she doesn't want what I'm not giving her anyway. (This doesn't apply to affairs since we've specifically agreed not to have sex with other actual people without prior discussion & agreement) You asked in your original post whether porn is an acceptable substitute for good sex in a marriage. I think as long as it's a trigger issue for her, it's not in your situation. I see you masturbating to porn as being something that will further drive a wedge between you and your wife. And you say you "need" the outside stimulation that porn provides. When porn becomes a "need" vs a "want", it becomes a problem. Men don't "need" porn to masturbate. I neither need nor want porn on a regular basis. What I want is a fulfilling sex life with my wife. Women always want men to take their feelings into consideration. What about men's feelings? We've gone through sexless periods before. I've tried no sex/no masturbation, masturbation/no porn, porn and marturbation almost daily, and porn/masturbation once or twice a week. I find that porn/masturbation once or twice a week is the less of the available evils for keeping myself emotionally stable when real sex is not available.
EnigmasMuse Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 What I want is a fulfilling sex life with my wife. I think this is part of a healthy relatiopnship to want this, and most people do want that. BUT, do you feel it is possible she wants something from you that you are maybe not providing for her? I'm not talking about money or material things either. Is there some part somewhere in the relationship that she feels you are neglecting?
Author StayClose Posted February 8, 2007 Author Posted February 8, 2007 If she's not pulling her weight in the relationship and not willing to discuss this or work to fix things, then why would you even consider doing anything for her for V Day? You are obviously not married. The only time its advisible for a married man to ignore Feb. 14 is when his divorce is already scheduled to finalize on Feb. 15. Otherwise, dissing V Day can only make things worse. And why even ask her if it's "okay" if you masturbate to porn? Put your foot down and take a stand or she'll continue to call the shots. I don't require her permission. I just wanted to have the discussion to see if we're close to the same page. We've discussed the porn issue before in our marraige and this was a reminder that if she wants me to use porn less, she needs to be supportive.
Krytellan Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 I neither need nor want porn on a regular basis. What I want is a fulfilling sex life with my wife. Women always want men to take their feelings into consideration. What about men's feelings? We've gone through sexless periods before. I've tried no sex/no masturbation, masturbation/no porn, porn and marturbation almost daily, and porn/masturbation once or twice a week. I find that porn/masturbation once or twice a week is the less of the available evils for keeping myself emotionally stable when real sex is not available. I have been exactly there SC. You could not have explained my situation any better. Maybe I can help as I have divorced my wife and am now a year removed from the last time I have seen her. I was bitter and jaded about the sex thing and decided that I would do whatever I wanted within the bounds of marriage because she had no right to demand otherwise. However, she cared so little that I doubt that she even knew what I did. A major reason in the divorce was this, the other part being emotional abuse, which I hope you are not experiencing. Anyway, after the experience I am having with my new grilfriend, I sometimes look back on my marriage and cringe when I remember that I used to think that my life was destined to be that way. When I think of what I have now compared to what I had then, it almost brings me to tears when I realize how thankful I am for what I did. I don't condone divorce, and I felt due to the other factors that I was justified. But the way you are living is no way to spend the rest of your life. Just realize that there are other choices that you can make if the situation is bad enough. Unfortunately, it takes 2 to fix it, and you alone is not enough.
Author StayClose Posted February 8, 2007 Author Posted February 8, 2007 BUT, do you feel it is possible she wants something from you that you are maybe not providing for her? I'm not talking about money or material things either. Is there some part somewhere in the relationship that she feels you are neglecting? She has some emotional issues that cause her to beleive that I am not supporting her or not listening to her, but other than the money and material things, I don't beleive there is anything I could do that I'm not doing now. If there was, I wish she'd tell me, because god knows I've asked.
JackJack Posted February 8, 2007 Posted February 8, 2007 She has some emotional issues that cause her to beleive that I am not supporting her or not listening to her, but other than the money and material things, I don't beleive there is anything I could do that I'm not doing now. If there was, I wish she'd tell me, because god knows I've asked. Her emotional issues might be the cause then? Perhaps this prevents her from seeing your point of view on things. Has she gotten help for these emotional issues? Alot of times, especially for women, emotional issues tie in with sex because they equate emotions with sex. I think the ball is in your court and proabably has been for some time. Its probably not a good thing for the ball to be in your court when it comes to this kind of thing though. Placing it there makes the main choices, up to you to choose what you feel you need to do, and sometimes that outcome is not wahat we would always like.
Scrivdog Posted February 9, 2007 Posted February 9, 2007 This is a perfect example of weaponizing sex. Here the guy's wife is withholding sex and genuine affection until he does what she wants, which in this case happens to be making more money. If he does as she says, I guarantee you that things won't improve. Making more money won't solve any problems. There is a very good chance that after he's complied, the new demands will be "more vacations" or "a new car", and he's back doing corner time until he pulls through with the goods. Oh and believe me, it'll all be about how stressed this all mekes her. I've been through exactly that for years. It's such a common pattern. No more for me.
Flyin in Clouds Posted February 10, 2007 Posted February 10, 2007 ... Maybe she has some resentment towards you or the family's inability to live within your means? You want sex? Fix the financial problems if that is indeed the problem. Let's see, she won't have sex unless the financial problems are solved. This makes his wife different from a whore in what way? She has to be paid in order to have sex? And the financial problems are his problem because? He's a man??? is that it? What is his wife doing to fix the financial problems? She can work, get a second job even. And why would a guy work his tail off for a woman that didn't want to have sex with him? They've set up a negative feedback loop. Women feel used for sex? Men feel used for being a meal ticket and getting no sex to boot. That simply isn't going to cut it. ... I've been under pressure from her to leave this job to get a higher paying job, but I feel she could do more to earn more with her business, like she was doing before. Ah, hah.... thought so. I don't feel that the finance issue and the sex issue should be connected. How come a woman that does this, demands her H makes lots of money or no sex, how come she doesn't feel like a whore? And why shouldn't a guy spend the extra $10k a year on a real whore. At least he'd get some decent sex, if not love. So her compromise when I initiate, is to say (literarly) "Ok, if you want to I will." What happens then is no kissing, minimal foreplay and finish quickly. In other words, the lousy sex many women complain complain about. When it's obvious she's not into it, it's hard to keep my erection, which upsets her more (there's never an erection problem with porn). Yeap, been there done that... a woman feels that if a man can't keep it up he must not feel she's very attractive or exciting. And of course she'd be right. And of course if a man had an affair there would be no problem keeping it up with the other woman. Sometimes I think women are their own worst enemies. I've discussed what I do want: more foreplay, kissing all over, oral both ways, a variety of positions. Most importanly, I want her to want it and enjoy it. That's what every husband really wants. Sounds all too familiar. Then she said I'm confused about the "relatonship stage" we're in because weve been together 10 years. You need to explain to her this is the divorce or cheating stage of the relationship... She'll be pissed but that's OK because after that comes the "Ah hah" stage or the "OMG you're really serious" stage and she might see that her marriage will end. It's a real wake up call. It's not just whining about sex. And she'll get seriously motivated to fix things or she won't. If she doesn't, then you can move on knowing there is really nothing you could do to fix things. She shared this with her therapist, who then printed out some articles from the Internet explaining relationship stages. Her therapist isn't referencing the right articles. He's missing the one's that list the causes of cheating or divorce when there ain't no more nookie in the relationship. So last weekend, explained to her that while I feel that a man's primary sexual outlet should be his wife, I have to respect the fact that she's not into it at this time wrong move. You just gave her permission to do what she's doing. You were being a nice guy and nice guys don't win, and don't get laid, but do get screwed. Tell her you want a mistress and see what she says. Then tell her you'd like her to be your mistress but if she doesn't want that role anymore then she should give you her blessing to find someone else to fill that role in your life. As long as you are going to be a "sensitive guy" and all that crap you will never get your relationship back on a healthy track. IMO. Now with Valantines Day coming up, I'm a little anxious about what's going to happen. She expects chocolate and a present, and I'd like to have more than "let me get lubbed with this vibrator, then stick it in and finish quickly." We'll see.A perfect time to drop the "mistress" bomb on her. Just make it clear the woman you most want as your mistress is her. After all a mistress gets chocolates and flowers and maybe some jewelry. hmmm... jewelry is out I guess. Maybe a card explaining what you want. Talking about sex is difficult, because she interprets discussion about sex as pressure to have sex, or criticism of her for not wanting sex. She feels guilty about not being able to please her husband, and can het mad at me for making her feel guilty. So while it's mportaant for her to know that I want her, expressing that want can make her feel bad and start a fight. Stop avoiding the fight. Have it out. Or live without sex for the rest of you life. Be miserable. But if you want to have sex you need to start being the man in your relationship. I have no control over her not wanting it, You have much more control than you think you do. But you'll have none as long as you keep bending over backwards to avoid a fight or to be a nice, sensitive guy. Ok, there's nothing wrong with her wanting you to get a better paying job. There's nothing wrong with you wanting her to do more with her business. Aside from the sex issue, this is something you both should be working on. Lennox, apparently you didn't get the pay for play connection. She's using sex like a whore uses sex. "Get me more money or no sex for you buddy...." And yes there is something wrong with her wanting more money if he doesn't want to bust his ass to get it. If he's happy with what he's got. If she persists in that attitude I'd recommend divorcing the gold digger. Men don't "need" porn to masturbate. And women don't need men to earn more money so they can buy 200 pairs of shoes either... I take lennox is a woman. I just love it when women tell men what they don't really need. Women don't really need their emotional needs met either. That's just an excuse like having a headache to avoid sex. Have you considered discussing this with a trained sex addiction therapist? hahahahaha.... that's funny Lennox. This poor guys wife isn't giving him any, and you think he's addicted to sex. typical... then why would you even consider doing anything for her for V Day? Yeah, and when she asks "how come I didn't get anything for valentines day" you can tell her you gave the flowers and chocolates to your mistress - the one that gives great BJs. Think that might drive home the point that she's got a problem? You are obviously not married. The only time its advisible for a married man to ignore Feb. 14 is when his divorce is already scheduled to finalize on Feb. 15. Otherwise, dissing V Day can only make things worse. I can see your problem clearly now ... your wife has you whipped. Give up all hope... because you are her slave. There is no equality in your relationship. She's free to ignore your emotional need for real and passionate sex with a woman that wants you while you have to satisfy all her wants and desires. I don't see any hope for you unless you are willing to risk it all by pissing her off - to the point where she realizes she really could lose you and her marriage because of her uncaring behavior. Valentine's day is for lovers - romantic relationships. She's no longer your lover or in a romantic relationship with you. So don't even be around on Valentines day. Yeah, it may make things worse. But can ending your relationship really be worse than a sexless marriage for the rest of your life? What does your wife get your for valentines day? And yes I tend to ignore valentines day. Or to put it another way, every day should be valentines day if you're in a serious relationship. What I want is a fulfilling sex life with my wife. That is what I wanted too. I didn't want divorce. I didn't want to cheat. And because I couldn't figure out how to solve that problem I became depressed to the point of being suicidal. I finally rejected that option and decided I had to risk divorce by playing the "I am going to have sex with someone" card. It didn't happen over night but my wife finally had her "ah hah" moment. It took pushing things to the limit. A major reason in the divorce was this, the other part being emotional abuse, which I hope you are not experiencing. A wife not having sex, or only granting the occasional "pity f*cks" is being abusive. damn abusive. Most women don't understand that because they have no conception of male sexuality. They see the world only from their female perspective, which does nothing to help then understand male sexuality. Which is why using the mistress threat is vital in getting them to understand, IMO. This may seem extreme, particular to today's modern sensitive man, but making your wife understand is what is really in her best interest and yours. If you don't make your wife understand, then she won't even bother to try to change. So you'll be stuck in a yet another sexless (or nearly so) marriage. Your choices are 1. live with it and suffer. Accept the occasional "pity f*ck" or be totally celibate and use porn. 2. divorce and find a woman that understands what a man needs. (And no it isn't just sex, or pity f*cks") 3. cheat and find a woman that understands what a man needs. 4. fix your wife. Help her see that what she is doing is destructive and why sex isn't just sex. Rejecting you is telling you loud and clear that she doesn't love you, in fact she can't stand you. She really hates you. 5. castration - then you won't have these urges anymore. 6. suicide. not recommend, as 2 or 3 are better options if 4 can't be done. Those are the only options. Pick one. Alot of times, especially for women, emotional issues tie in with sex because they equate emotions with sex. This is very true. But why women can't see a man's desire to have sex with them is an expression of real love is beyond me. Someone, ladyjane I think, said women have this "super highway" in their brian to connect there emotional sides so they are really quicker and I suppose superior to men in the emotional decoding department. If that is so, why are so many women so dense when it comes to understanding a man's emotional needs and his desire to please her through sex?
Mr. Lucky Posted February 11, 2007 Posted February 11, 2007 She claims it's primarily stress over our credit card debt & financial situation. All you guys busy equating StayClose's wife with a hooker are missing the key word in his statement. It's not "financial", its "stress". People internalize and react to stress in different ways. If his wife was stressed over a reason that made more sense to you - family illness, etc.- then would your point of view be the same? SC's marital issues aren't sexual, they are instead (surprise!) based on communication. Unless both partners agree on what the problems are and how they can be faced together, ALL aspects of a marriage suffer. Not sure how the blame game being played out here really helps him... Mr. Lucky
Crazy Eddie Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 All you guys busy equating StayClose's wife with a hooker are missing the key word in his statement. It's not "financial", its "stress". People internalize and react to stress in different ways. If his wife was stressed over a reason that made more sense to you - family illness, etc.- then would your point of view be the same? SC's marital issues aren't sexual, they are instead (surprise!) based on communication. Unless both partners agree on what the problems are and how they can be faced together, ALL aspects of a marriage suffer. Not sure how the blame game being played out here really helps him... Mr. Lucky Seems to be like the communication's already happened... the message is "we ain't selling the house, I'm not lifting a finger to make more money, and I'm not putting out like you want until you become a real man and make more money." I don't know if she's open to changing any of those conditions. If not, I would say they have reached an impasse and are not likely to remain happy together. Of course she should know if she leaves him, he will have every reason in the world to stay at the job he likes and never, ever lift a finger to earn more money just to have part of it go to a woman that rejected him so thoroughly. She may not be able to relent on any of these conditions. Many women can't be turned on by men they view as "underachievers", no matter how much they wish they were. In which case the marriage is screwed.
Mr. Lucky Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Seems to be like the communication's already happened... the message is "we ain't selling the house, I'm not lifting a finger to make more money, and I'm not putting out like you want until you become a real man and make more money." You know, I've been completely right and my wife dead wrong about several key issues in our marriage. And you know what it got me? Absolutely nothing ! No Olympic judge gave me a medal, no one awarded me a prize. And I still didn't get what I wanted from the relationship... StayClose is the one that wants a change in the current sexual climate. So, simply put, the burden is on him (right or wrong) to make it happen. I've personally tried the method several of you are suggesting - blame your partner and wait for her to change - does the phrase "cold day in hell" ring a bell ? So again, just my opinion, reinforcing the fact that everything is her fault isn't going to get him very far. Mr. Lucky
Pink_Tulip Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 I was just wondering, why is it when a man demands sex from his wife, we can't call him a filthy sex addicted pig, we have to understand that genetically, he NEEDS sex, and we must be understanding and sympathetic. When a woman wants a man who can support and take care of his family, it is perfectly OK to call her a gold digging whore? We just get to forget that genetically women look for a man to be the head of a family and that includes taking care of them? Nice double standard.
Crazy Eddie Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 You know, I've been completely right and my wife dead wrong about several key issues in our marriage. And you know what it got me? Absolutely nothing ! No Olympic judge gave me a medal, no one awarded me a prize. And I still didn't get what I wanted from the relationship... StayClose is the one that wants a change in the current sexual climate. So, simply put, the burden is on him (right or wrong) to make it happen. I've personally tried the method several of you are suggesting - blame your partner and wait for her to change - does the phrase "cold day in hell" ring a bell ? So again, just my opinion, reinforcing the fact that everything is her fault isn't going to get him very far. Mr. Lucky The point is not so much that it's her fault but that there's really doesn't seem to be much that he can actually do, short of spending in excess of eight hours a day at a job he hates. Is he willing to do that in order to (maybe) get better sex? If he's not willing to do that, and she's not willing to give in on her conditions, he is completely out of options other than divorce or regular use of porn. Some situations can be resolved through compromise and negotiation. Other situations can't.
Crazy Eddie Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 I was just wondering, why is it when a man demands sex from his wife, we can't call him a filthy sex addicted pig, we have to understand that genetically, he NEEDS sex, and we must be understanding and sympathetic. Because craving sex with the person he loves and her enthusiastic participation doesn't make him a "filthy sex addicted pig", it makes him a normal human being. Who among us wouldn't resent being asked to spend a lifetime forsaking all others without getting to experience that? When a woman wants a man who can support and take care of his family, it is perfectly OK to call her a gold digging whore? We just get to forget that genetically women look for a man to be the head of a family and that includes taking care of them? Nice double standard. Fine, she wants a man who can support and take care of his family. That doesn't mean that she gets to unilaterally decide that he needs to hop on the treadmill and upgrade his support or else. There isn't a double standard here. If he cut her off until she met some ureasonable demand of his, I'd be just as critical of him.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Because craving sex with the person he loves and her enthusiastic participation doesn't make him a "filthy sex addicted pig", it makes him a normal human being. Who among us wouldn't resent being asked to spend a lifetime forsaking all others without getting to experience that? Fine, she wants a man who can support and take care of his family. That doesn't mean that she gets to unilaterally decide that he needs to hop on the treadmill and upgrade his support or else. There isn't a double standard here. If he cut her off until she met some ureasonable demand of his, I'd be just as critical of him. Right, no double standard here. His needs must be met, she is a gold digging whore. I have no problem stating that she needs to have a better understanding of her husbands need for sex and compromise more, but if you don't see that saying his need is more important than her need is hypocrisy, I feel sorry for your wife. The two issues are seperate, yet she gets the label. Care to explain why? Why is it assumed it is her fault? Why do you believe women must have sex with their husbands regardless of circumstance? Why do you take the side of the man immediately? Why is no one here calling him a lazy ass slacker who isn't taking care of his family? Know many women who want to be intimate with a lazy ass slacker? For all you know, he is a horrible husband, yet rather than find out what is going on in the marriage and encourage better communication, she is labeled a gold digging whore. I am with Mr. Lucky on this one, that is not going to help matters at all. I don't know if that is the case, just pointing out the hypocrisy.
tanbark813 Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Why is no one here calling him a lazy ass slacker who isn't taking care of his family? Because it's already been stated that: We bought a house (slight fixer-upper) a few years ago and had a shopping spree with appliances, gardening tools, and other things homeowners need to have. At the same time her self-emplyeed income dropped dramatically. All this time I've been working at the same job with a stable income & small raises. She's the slacker, not him. And he still wants to f**k her. I'm guessing he's not withholding emotional support either.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Because it's already been stated that: She's the slacker, not him. And he still wants to f**k her. I'm guessing he's not withholding emotional support either. Ok Tanbark, tell me what I am missing here, cuz I don't see it. How, exactly, does that make her a slacker? They blew thru money they didn't have, she is now experiencing stress over it that has caused her libido to suffer, and that makes her a gold digging whore b/c she is expressing this stress by trying to find ways for the family to bring in more money how??? She is saying- I am stressed over money. He is saying- I need more sex. So please explain to me why most men on this thread aren't suggesting that they have a serious communication issue, rather than putting the blame on her? If I were her friend, to be honest, I would tell her to have tons of really good sex with her husband, b/c that would meet his needs, and he would be more motivated to meet her needs, ie., maybe changing jobs to bring in more money. Why is it when a woman's needs aren't being met, it is a communication issue, but when a man's needs (sex) aren't being met, the woman is manipulative, playing games, a gold digging whore, etc.???
tanbark813 Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Because the issue is that he still is making the same amount of money but she's making less. So in that sense, she's the bigger contributor to the debt and now she's withholding sex to coerce the OP into picking up her slack. If the OP was the one who lost his job and wasn't making any money, then I'd agree with you, but that's not the case.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 I've discussed what I do want: more foreplay, kissing all over, oral both ways, a variety of positions. Most importanly, I want her to want it and enjoy it. She says I'm trying to make too much of a "production" out of it, and have "unrealistic expectations" based on porn. I explain that my expectation are based not on porn but on the sex we used to have, and have had with partners before her. Then she said I'm confused about the "relatonship stage" we're in because weve been together 10 years. OK, I went and reread this thread, and this jumped out at me. Did you seriously tell your wife you want with her what you had with other women? She has stated she feels insecure about herself, and that the porn maginifies that feeling. And you brought up othe women? And why is she in therapy? Is she depressed? So she is possibly depressed, insecure, and stressed, yet the men choose to go with 'gold digging whore.' Can you see I am bothered by this??? Ugh. I give up.
Pink_Tulip Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Because the issue is that he still is making the same amount of money but she's making less. So in that sense, she's the bigger contributor to the debt and now she's withholding sex to coerce the OP into picking up her slack. If the OP was the one who lost his job and wasn't making any money, then I'd agree with you, but that's not the case. And so she deserves the label 'gold digging whore?' Look, if you have read anything of mine, you know I am all for women being educated on the importance of sex to men. And maybe they need to come to some compromise wherein she gets a job or whatever. But what exactly do you and the others think you are accomplishing by labeling this woman this way? Why do you assume you know her motives and feelings? The OP has stated she feels guilty about the lack of sex and wants to fix it, but other things are going on. To call her names and blame her to me seems like an extremely juvenile and overly simplistic answer. JMO.
Mr. Lucky Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Some situations can be resolved through compromise and negotiation. Other situations can't. In the OP's own words, here is what he wants: I've discussed what I do want: more foreplay, kissing all over, oral both ways, a variety of positions. Most importanly, I want her to want it and enjoy it. His stated position of "I'm right on this and she's wrong" doesn't strike me as compromise and negotiation. So on that basis, I hope he enjoys the status quo... Mr. Lucky
Author StayClose Posted February 13, 2007 Author Posted February 13, 2007 Thanks Pink Tulip for seeing my situaiton correctly a few messages back. Yes, she does say the stress about finances hurts her libido. Yes, I want more sex. Among the effects of little/bad sex on me is that it makes me feel less good about myself, which does not help my motivation for doing a job search. OK, I went and reread this thread, and this jumped out at me. Did you seriously tell your wife you want with her what you had with other women? She has stated she feels insecure about herself, and that the porn maginifies that feeling. And you brought up othe women? Just a little background: We have been very honest with each other about our sexual histories. We've both had about the same number of previous partners, which for both of us included a couple of one-nighters. So neither of us can call the other a slut, and neither of us felt that we weren't as "experienced" as the other. In the past we've been secure enough to shared other details, such as my penis isn't the largest she's seen (nor the smallest), and she doesn't have the nicest body I've been with. But we're both mature enough to know that those things don't necessarily mean better sex. Other personality factors necessary to a successful relationship WERE there, and, at least at first, the sexual connection was strong and the sex was great. The reason I meantioned other women was to underscore the point that I'm not asking her to emulate porn videos with me. I'm just talking about hot vanilla sex like we've had many times previosuly, and that we've both had with other partners. As for the porn, my point is that if I'm made to feel that any hot sexual experience is completely off-limits to me, that makes me feel cranky and resentful. If I use porn, then I can at least fastasize that I have an exciting sex life. I tried to make it clear to my wife that I strongly prefer her as a an eager partner over porn, but if she isn't emotionally there, then porn is preferable to "get it over with" quickies or just growning resentful that I'm not having sex. And why is she in therapy? Is she depressed? So she is possibly depressed, insecure, and stressed, yet the men choose to go with 'gold digging whore.' Can you see I am bothered by this??? Ugh. I give up. Yes, she is stressed and depressed and in therapy for it. As for those calling her names, many people online tend to filter what they read through their own personal experiences and biases, and write responses that are more relevent to their own personal expereinces that to the posters. I do the same thing sometimes, so when I read responses that don't really apply to my situation I just disregard them. Yes, it is natural to stress out over financial problems. But when that stress manafests itself in a way that hurts other parts of the marraige, that just makes everything more difficult to fix.
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