kkat Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 My threads - like many of you - tell the story of the many years I spent as an OW, and they tell about the pain, the tears, the problems. Interesting though, our threads often don't even begin to address the lost opportunities - the things that could have been, the experiences we could have had- had we not been spending time in a prison of our own making. I had a situation where my ex-MM treated me exceptionally well compared to many situations we read about here. I knew he loved me dearly, and he showed it constantly - in every way except the one that mattered. At the end of EVERY DAY stands one fact about my ex-MM (and your MM) - he is a liar, a cheater, a man who was not willing to live in integrity, a man who is not strong enough to make a choice and stay in one relationship. Why oh why do we overlook that obvious point? Imagine we were asked the following question by a friend, a stranger, our sister, a co-worker. "My boyfriend hit me. What should I do? I mean, he did hit me, but he loves me, and I know he is sorry, and he said he will not hit me again...but actually he has been hitting me, but not super hard, but hitting me, for a few years....but I know he loves me, and he hits other people too - not just me - and he only hits me because he can't afford to go to therapy, or because he is frustrated about his job...." Obviously, most of us would say - run, don't walk, out the door and stay out. In other words - we wouldn't make excuses for physically abusive treatment. Yet we make and accept excuses for our being in emotionally abusive situations - over and over and over.... I am out of my relationship finally, after years. I have had no contact with the ex-MM now for 4 or 5 months and I have zero desire to be with him, no love for him (or hate for that matter) - I think of him only occasionally and not with pain or anger, and I don't care about him or his life... I have accepted 100% responsibility for having gotten into and staying in a relationship built on lies - and by accepting responsibility - I was able to then resolve it with myself instead of blaming him and waiting for some resolution there.... If I can get out and stay out ANYBODY can. Please - look at how long some of the threads span - mine for example - look at the stories - think about the obvious facts - you are involved with a liar, a cheater. Please try harder to get out of the relationship than to make it work. Please think about the opportunities - invisible as they may be at the moment - to find wonderful things for ourselves if you leave a dead-end relationship. Good luck...
bellababygirl Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 It will be exactly 1 week tomorrow since I have spoke, email, texted, etc. my MM. Now, before I pat myself on the back he has been out of the country until tonight. But, I have resisted contacting him. It is overwhelmingly hard because all I want is to hear his voice. But, I have made it almost to midnight...and no calling. I can do it! If I make it through tonight maybe I can make it through tomorrow. However, if he calls me...I dont know I will be able not to answer. He will find it unusal I have not contacted him. Maybe he wont? Maybe he will enjoy it? My problem is I know we cant cease all contact forever because we are expecting a son this summer. How do you break away from something you long for...yearn for...desire...even though I know it is hurtful as well? I want to be strong... Maybe not contacting him I am hoping he will really have a chance to see if he wants me or not? I know the way things are our relationship has no where to go...except to end up with more chldren... How do you have NC when you have a child together? And is that fair to the child?
frannie Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 At the end of EVERY DAY stands one fact about my ex-MM (and your MM) - he is a liar, a cheater, a man who was not willing to live in integrity, a man who is not strong enough to make a choice and stay in one relationship. Why oh why do we overlook that obvious point? The same way as a BS taking back a WS can overlook the same obvious point. Because of other obvious points (or factors). History, love, connection, not wanting to give up on something that seems worth working for..? If a BS can take back a man who lied to her, and cheated on her, then how much easier is it for an OW to believe in what she and the MM have..? After all, as far as most/many OW know, there has been no lying and cheating in their relationship. Speaking for myself now: I believe that my MM loves me and only me. He's still married to her (and lying to her, and cheating on HER) because he's afraid (or 'chickensh**' if you prefer to put it in a derogatory sense) to leave his children. To me, that's acceptable enough that it's not poor treatment of me. It may be apalling behaviour towards his wife, but that's their relationship and nothing to do with me. As far as I'm concerned, he's not treating me badly. It's my choice to be involved with him. He's always said he understands if I need to end it and be with someone else. He's never broken NC when I've called it. He's never asked me to wait for him. I don't think that he is being emotionally abusive towards me (I've been in that situation before!), but I do know that the situation I'm staying in (of my own choice) is making me as unhappy as it is fulfilling me... there's always something missing, and something wrong about it. That's what hurts. Not the worry about where his love lies.
kymberann Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 HI KKAT, Thanks for the post. I think we need more like that. You and I are on similar time frames in terms of the R with XMM. I tell you there are days I miss him and still think of him but since the R ended there is also a big sigh of relief. NO hiding, waiting, wishing he would just make up his mind. Each day I go with out is each day that reminds me he is NOt the man he started out to be. He got scared, he lost out not me! I have my life back! I miss him less and less. I have a smile back, I don't cry every day, I don't have someone leaving me to go back to do the daily things with his w. I don't care about revenge, getting even, because he has his wife to live with. There are lots of things that remind me of him, but my rational side has healed and is almost fully operational! All i can do is remember what we had was good at the time, it couldn't have lasted forever no matter how good/romantic/wonderful/magical it was at the time. One thing is for sure NEVER AGAIN!!!
NoIDidn't Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 The same way as a BS taking back a WS can overlook the same obvious point. Because of other obvious points (or factors). History, love, connection, not wanting to give up on something that seems worth working for..? If a BS can take back a man who lied to her, and cheated on her, then how much easier is it for an OW to believe in what she and the MM have..? After all, as far as most/many OW know, there has been no lying and cheating in their relationship. Speaking for myself now: I believe that my MM loves me and only me. He's still married to her (and lying to her, and cheating on HER) because he's afraid (or 'chickensh**' if you prefer to put it in a derogatory sense) to leave his children. To me, that's acceptable enough that it's not poor treatment of me. It may be apalling behaviour towards his wife, but that's their relationship and nothing to do with me. As far as I'm concerned, he's not treating me badly. It's my choice to be involved with him. He's always said he understands if I need to end it and be with someone else. He's never broken NC when I've called it. He's never asked me to wait for him. I don't think that he is being emotionally abusive towards me (I've been in that situation before!), but I do know that the situation I'm staying in (of my own choice) is making me as unhappy as it is fulfilling me... there's always something missing, and something wrong about it. That's what hurts. Not the worry about where his love lies. Wow, frannie. Just.....wow. PM for you.
hardknocks Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I agree whole heartedly. In your type or A (the same as mine) a full blown love affair it is abuse. I often thought .. what else can you call it when the person you love the most in the world hurts you over and over again? And they have all of the control on their side. I know in my instance I couldn't contact her when I needed her. But she could contact me (I'm single) whenever she wanted. And there were times she would do here 'dissapearing act' where she wouldn't call or respond to me for days (usually we spoke several hours a day). It was torture and it was abusive. And I told her too btw. Your one line about the MM being a cheater/liar etc I thought was a little strong... I prefer to think of people in A's as good people caught in a very bad situation causing them to do things the wouldn't normally do.
Jinxx Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Your one line about the MM being a cheater/liar etc I thought was a little strong... I prefer to think of people in A's as good people caught in a very bad situation causing them to do things the wouldn't normally do. Yes, I totally agree with this.
Guest Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 NoIDidn't, I see that you havesent Frannie a PM. Obviously not after you to share the contents of your PM but am curious to know if you genrally agree with her posting or not. I can relate to the bit about being fulfilled and unhappy at the same time. I sometimes think we would get bored in a committed exclusive R where the biggest choice we had to make was whether we had pork or lamb chops for tea. Sorry that was a bit trite but I have heard it mentioned that when/if the MM leaves his marriage, then the R with the OW fails, because the A was fuelled by the uncertainty, longing, unavailability. Now that those things have gone, what is there to sustain it? Also, where children are invoved, no matter what their ages, quite rightly the MM will always have responsibilities there so the access visits and school open days etc will be facing the OW fully in the face. During the A, she never had to deal with it because she was not in a full time R with him So once the halcyon days of the A (drinking wine, making love, chatting without any interruptions or distractions) are gone and the MM leaves the M, then the OW is faced with reality and those heady days will seem like a distant memory.
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Your one line about the MM being a cheater/liar etc I thought was a little strong... I prefer to think of people in A's as good people caught in a very bad situation causing them to do things the wouldn't normally do. That's just putting the correct word on the action though. To fail in describing a situation accurately is to put our blinders on, to stick our heads in the sand. A person who cheats... is a "cheater". True. A person who lies... is a "liar". Also true. Believe me, there's more derogatory terminology to be had for these particular actions.
movinon05 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Hey KKat. I could've written the same exact post and actually I think I have in so many words. The obvious thing here is to encourage questioning OWs to know that there can be a time where indifference sets in. It actually does happen. While I used to think I "wasted" 7 yrs of my life, I've now come to understand that it was a learning process for me, it was something I had to experience, to bring me where I am today. And I think that's where most OW/OM situations fall. Everyone learns in their own space and time. LS will hopefully speed up the process one way or the other.
frannie Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Wow, frannie. Just.....wow. PM for you. Thanks. Got it.
whichwayisup Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 I know in my instance I couldn't contact her when I needed her. But she could contact me (I'm single) whenever she wanted. And there were times she would do here 'dissapearing act' where she wouldn't call or respond to me for days (usually we spoke several hours a day). It was torture and it was abusive. And I told her too btw. Ouch. Can I ask? What did she say when you told her?
hardknocks Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 That's just putting the correct word on the action though. To fail in describing a situation accurately is to put our blinders on, to stick our heads in the sand. A person who cheats... is a "cheater". True. A person who lies... is a "liar". Also true. Believe me, there's more derogatory terminology to be had for these particular actions. Sure.. blanket labels are the easy way to go. They are convenient and it feels good to put things into the simplest terms for ourselves. It's great because it prevents us from having to do any REAL THINKING to understand what the true nature of the problems is. Of course there are some bad people out there in the worl - but I doubt that is what this thread was trying to talk about. All people that have affairs are not bad - most are doing the best they can - again in bad bad situations. If you want to talk about ethics.. in and affair a lot of the times you have two ideals in conflict. The first is the idea of honesty and the second is of caring. We all lie from time to time - that is a fact and a lot of the time we CAN justify not being honest because we care about another person's feelings. Say your friend asks you how they look on that particular day - although you don't like their shirt, you still say they look great because you know how much THEY like that shirt - That's a simple example. Extrapolate to the affair. A person doesn't want to crush another person's feelings - they are put in an almost impossible situation that can be very hard to determine what is right. ADD on top of that the other complexities that an affair brings - biologically, psychologically and socially and you start to see that once you're in an A you are in a bad bad place that is difficult to get out of. There are a lof of good people that happen into affairs - Besidess a few whack jobs I don't believe anybody wakes up one day and goes out looking to be in an affair. It isn't a conscious action. To these people that have found themselves in this situation - I believe they need support and empathy more than canned labels and gut reactions. and lastly .. judge not....
hardknocks Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Ouch. Can I ask? What did she say when you told her? She cried and apologized. And it hurt me to hurt her. Still does to this day just thinking about it. But there was a cyle that was developing - and I really was feeling pain when she kept repeating things that I told her were hurting me. I had to let her know - she was abusing me. Did the action stop? Nope. Did she want it to? I believe so.. I do believe we both got in way over our heads - we're both fairly young and have zero experience with crap like this.. probably like a lot of people.
Jane Doe Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Kkat, I remember reading your threads back when I was just a lurker here. I'm so glad to hear that you've finally moved on and are doing so well. To be honest, I had my doubts you'd ever do it. Thank God you proved me wrong. Best of luck to you! Keep up the good work!
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Sure.. blanket labels are the easy way to go. It's not a "blanket label" to use the most expedient verbiage when describing a specific action. Why muddy up the waters more than they already are by rejecting the most descriptive terminology? If a person takes offense at the word "cheater"... it's probably best for that person's sensibilities if s/he does NOT engage in cheating. Same thing with lying. If these words challenge one's sense of ethics... why engage in the correlating actions? and lastly .. judge not.... Everybody makes thousands of judgements every day. Same thing can be said about choices. All anybody can do is make the best ones they can. I don't have to like your choices. And I'm well within my rights to judge you as someone I don't want to be friendly with and someone I don't want to know because of them. It's no skin off your nose if I do. So why would you care what I think? Isn't what YOU think of yourself the greater priority? If the words "cheater" and "liar" offend you, maybe you should be asking yourself why. Afterall... I am not the one who defined these as "not good people", YOU are. I already know that today's sinner has the potential to be tomorrow's saint. Been there and done that.
Just 'nother MM Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 Isn't what YOU think of yourself the greater priority?The GREATEST priority, in my humble opinion.
hardknocks Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 LJ: So a world we Label and Judge - that's where you want to live huh? You should be an LA police officer!
Ladyjane14 Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 You should be an LA police officer! How do you know I'm not? Did you just make a... a judgement? :laugh:
SoleMate Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 kkat, congratulations!! It really made my day to hear about your success and to see the leadership you are providing to other OW.
Author kkat Posted February 4, 2007 Author Posted February 4, 2007 I'm not saying my ex-MM is the single worst person in the world, or that he doesn't have good points. He certainly does. But he is a liar and a cheater. Hello? And what person in an affair where the BS doesn't know about the A and condone it is NOT a liar and a cheater? I'm also not saying he didn't have excuses for lying and cheating. He did. He had loads of them - primarily that he wanted to be with me, that he wanted to have a life in addition to his life with his wife, and that he was enough of a liar and cheater to be OK with having both lives, and hurting both people (and himself) in the process - and too weak and without integrity to make a hard decision and end things with one (or both) of us. I'm not saying it's not hard to disconnect - look at how long it took me, and at what cost. And I'm not saying it's not understandable why we stay in the relationships. I'm just saying this....healthy relationships do not have pain equal to fulfillment....and staying in a relationship because some parts of it are good is not healthy - when other parts of it are painful. And, I'm not at all coming from a place of ethics or morality - I always felt that I wasn't in the wrong since I wasn't the one with a commitment to his wife. I was in tremendous pain (and so was he by the way) and apparently his wife was as well, with the knowledge pricking through her denial...and I wish I hadn't allowed myself to stay in an unhealthy relationship so long. And I am glad so glad to be free. And never again...AMEN!
StuckinaRut Posted February 5, 2007 Posted February 5, 2007 It's so nice to read your post. I'm a OW finding it hard to go NC and he lives hours away. I chose to leave the city that we lived in. I am always hurting these days...when I talk to him and when I don't. MM's are cheaters, liars, and cowards. You offer encouragement to other OW's. I hope I can post a post like yours soon. I wait for the day. My stupide MM is going on his annual family vacation soon and he wants me to trust him. How funny is that?
outofdarkness Posted February 5, 2007 Posted February 5, 2007 My threads - like many of you - tell the story of the many years I spent as an OW, and they tell about the pain, the tears, the problems. Interesting though, our threads often don't even begin to address the lost opportunities - the things that could have been, the experiences we could have had- had we not been spending time in a prison of our own making. I had a situation where my ex-MM treated me exceptionally well compared to many situations we read about here. I knew he loved me dearly, and he showed it constantly - in every way except the one that mattered. At the end of EVERY DAY stands one fact about my ex-MM (and your MM) - he is a liar, a cheater, a man who was not willing to live in integrity, a man who is not strong enough to make a choice and stay in one relationship. Why oh why do we overlook that obvious point? Imagine we were asked the following question by a friend, a stranger, our sister, a co-worker. "My boyfriend hit me. What should I do? I mean, he did hit me, but he loves me, and I know he is sorry, and he said he will not hit me again...but actually he has been hitting me, but not super hard, but hitting me, for a few years....but I know he loves me, and he hits other people too - not just me - and he only hits me because he can't afford to go to therapy, or because he is frustrated about his job...." Obviously, most of us would say - run, don't walk, out the door and stay out. In other words - we wouldn't make excuses for physically abusive treatment. Yet we make and accept excuses for our being in emotionally abusive situations - over and over and over.... I am out of my relationship finally, after years. I have had no contact with the ex-MM now for 4 or 5 months and I have zero desire to be with him, no love for him (or hate for that matter) - I think of him only occasionally and not with pain or anger, and I don't care about him or his life... I have accepted 100% responsibility for having gotten into and staying in a relationship built on lies - and by accepting responsibility - I was able to then resolve it with myself instead of blaming him and waiting for some resolution there.... If I can get out and stay out ANYBODY can. Please - look at how long some of the threads span - mine for example - look at the stories - think about the obvious facts - you are involved with a liar, a cheater. Please try harder to get out of the relationship than to make it work. Please think about the opportunities - invisible as they may be at the moment - to find wonderful things for ourselves if you leave a dead-end relationship. Good luck... Your thread is wonderful and refreshing..Thanks for helping to put things in perspective for me too....A BS.
Recommended Posts