Krytellan Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 OK, so I've done the legal research, now I want to hear your thoughts. As divorce proceedings began with my soon to be ex-wife, I said all along that she sould have the ring because I gave it to her. However, due to the fact that she has been getting increasingly mean and imposing during the course of events, I am now inclined to sell it and give her half of the money instead. Details are that she moved out of our house while I was visiting family. She left the ring at the house in an "in your face" gesture and now wants it back. The house has since been sold and I have moved across the country, but I still have the ring. So, since she has become more and more difficult and has attempted to leave me with financial burdens that she agreed to take in writing, does anyone here think I have any right to keep the ring? Please, I am not looking for legal advice... strictly moral.
Star Gazer Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Legally, ethically, AND morally, she gets to keep the ring. It's nothing more than a gift from you to her. You wouldn't take back any other gift, would you?
Author Krytellan Posted February 2, 2007 Author Posted February 2, 2007 You are incorrect on the legal aspect, the state in which we were married has gone both ways on the issue, as it is considered a "conditional gift". And no, I wouldn't take away other gifts. However, considering that she is asking me to pack up the set of dishes that I have here in Washington my apartment and drive them to her when I see her in Pennsylvania... just becasue she wants them, yeah, I would consider taking away this gift.
Woggle Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 I would keep it and not give her a dime from the sale. Only give what you are legally required to. She will play hardball through the divorce so you should as well.
RecordProducer Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 You asked about the moral aspect. It was a gift you gave her. Do you want to be an "Indian giver"? It's not a car, even though it might be more valuable than a car. If she gave you an expensive camera for your b/day and you were using it for your hobby (photography), would it be nice if she took it back? Legally, it would be Ok, but morally, it was a b/day present. This was an engagement or marriage ring or Valentine or Christmas or simply affection ring. Now you want it back. The gesture of her throwing it at you meant "I hate you so much, I don't even want your gifts!" But you taking it back means: "Oh, cool, I am gonna sell it and get money for it!" Very uncool. When you tell your next GF about it, she won't be impressed and she will never be genuinely happy when she gets a ring from you. Or do you NOT intend to tell your next GF about this? If so, it means you'd be ashamed to tell her. Why do something that you're ashamed of?
Citizen Erased Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 It was a gift, but she gave it back to be a b!tch. So therefor I would have to say it was a return. You gave it to her as a symbol of your love and she throws it back in your face in the process of divorce. So, I would have to say her rights to it are forfeit.
Author Krytellan Posted February 2, 2007 Author Posted February 2, 2007 Interesting food for thought. Keep the opinions coming. If she gave you an expensive camera for your b/day and you were using it for your hobby (photography), would it be nice if she took it back? Actually, she has done that, though it was a DVD player and that is not why I'm asking this.
MotherGooze Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 You asked about the moral aspect. It was a gift you gave her. Do you want to be an "Indian giver"? It's not a car, even though it might be more valuable than a car. If she gave you an expensive camera for your b/day and you were using it for your hobby (photography), would it be nice if she took it back? Legally, it would be Ok, but morally, it was a b/day present. This was an engagement or marriage ring or Valentine or Christmas or simply affection ring. Now you want it back. The gesture of her throwing it at you meant "I hate you so much, I don't even want your gifts!" But you taking it back means: "Oh, cool, I am gonna sell it and get money for it!" Very uncool. When you tell your next GF about it, she won't be impressed and she will never be genuinely happy when she gets a ring from you. Or do you NOT intend to tell your next GF about this? If so, it means you'd be ashamed to tell her. Why do something that you're ashamed of? I don't really agree on this. A camera isn't the same as something you show your love with like a ring. Like he said, she gave it back. That's an awful thing. It's like she's saying : I don't want your love, here's the ring back. And now she wants it? So she can sell it? No, I would only give her the ring, if she'd deserve it. If she doesn't love you and is so Bitchy, she doesn't deserve the ring.
dgiirl Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 My personal belief is, it's a material object and NOT worth a penny of the stress you are receiving from keeping it. When my exh and I went through the divisions of assets neither one of us really gave a **** over the towels or the microwave or the tv set. Giving him the nice stereo system was absolutely worth it to never have him in my life again. Sure it was a nice and expensive stereo system, and it would have pissed him off SOOOO much to keep it. If I was a spiteful person, I would have kept it or made him fight over it. But why? Why create all that negative karma for myself? Yes, he's a complete and utter asshat. That doesnt mean I have to be one too. If giving her the ring will get her out of your life, dont you think it's worth it? About her not paying her finicial obligations and such. Do you have it in writing? If so, and if it's worth the stress, then go for it _legally_! But dont go for it by taking revenge. I think a persons real character is tested during a divorce. What type of person are you? Are you a person with integrity? Or are you a bitter spiteful person?
bab Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 I don't know. Normally I'd say it was hers. The conditional gift is the condition that she marry you. Which she did. If she broke if off before the marriage then the ring would be yours. But the fact that she left it is like she is returning the gift. When she does that it's just like giving a gift back. Saying she doesn't want the gift. Therefore it's yours again. Hmmm...tough one. I do like dgiirl's advice. Is it really worth it?
Woggle Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Yes his self respect is worth it. Don't let her win. If I were you I would sell the ring today.
Art_Critic Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Just give it back to her.. Why pull a power play ?... That is all is .. It was hers during the marriage why shouldn't it be hers after the marriage ?.. because you want to hold it over her head as a carrot and make her beg for it.. Divorces are full of random hard hitting emotions on both sides.. Give her the ring and don't give it a second thought
Art_Critic Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 My personal belief is, it's a material object and NOT worth a penny of the stress you are receiving from keeping it. Right on.... by pulling the power play and keeping the stress level high in your life it isn't worth it..
Art_Critic Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 When I separated from my then wife I gave her my wedding ring to keep as well as hers... Mine... I took a 16lb sledge hammer and flattened it on the garage floor first though.. It was quite the site.. diamond chips flew in all directions.. Her face was priceless when I gave it to her But I was making the point to her that the ring was not going back on my finger and we were going to get divorced... during our marriage she played this stupid game where if she was pissed at me she would remove her ring till I was out of the dog house.. My attorney actually was not pleased... he felt it could've been used against me in court to show hostility.. So I wouldn't recommend it for anybody to do..
Author Krytellan Posted February 2, 2007 Author Posted February 2, 2007 You all make a good point about getting her out of my life, but the situation is to the contrary. I have done nothing but concede to her wishes throughout this process. I took the dogs because she "had no place for them". Now, 8 months later she insists on having one of them back. Though I disagree, I conceded that it was her right. She wanted the dishes in my cupboard... the only thing I brought with me across the country... I conceded. She insisted on taking my truck, bought before we met, and leaving me with the new vehicle (hers) that stilol is being paid on... I conceded. So you see... giving her the ring is not a matter of getting her out of my life. I have conceded to her and she will not go away. She is shuffling her feet in securing lawyers... continues o make more demands. She is playing a power game and I guess this is what she wanted. She wanted to see if I would snap. Well, I think that's about to happen. I am still interested in your views though.
Salicious Crumb Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Not sure about legally..but in my opinion...she gve it back to you. Too bad...so sad. Its yours.
dgiirl Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 This is a different story that your original post. FIRST, talk to your lawyer! Second, make a list of everything you both own and divide the assets/debts once and for all. I would tell her that your sick and tired of this back and forth and for both your sakes, let's get everything settled so that you both can be happy and move on with your lives. Make a list of what you own, distribute the items fairly, ie dont take her prize possessions if it doesnt mean anything to you, but do take the things that mean something to you. If you both act maturely, you can resolve this. Once you get a list, she'll make changes, come up with a compromise you both can live with, not necessarily happy, but live with. The end. No back peddling once that agreement is made and assets are divided. I would do ALL of this by EMAIL! No verbal agreements. All exchanges by email so you have a record of what was said. Also, you have more time to think about a response via email. You can think about what you want and dont want. Emotions easily get out of hand when you have to talk instantly via phone or in person. So use email to calm yourselves down and think rationally instead of emotionally. IF you've already divided the assets to the point that the only thing remaining is this ring, I'd personally give it to her and tell her to choke on it and to _never_ contact you again. Ok, maybe I wouldnt really tell her to choke on it, but I'd be thinking it! IF you REALLY want the ring, and want to fight, then tell her enough is enough and you're not giving her back anything else. What's done is done. It's been 8 months that she didnt want the ring and all of a sudden, she wants it? Enough is enough already and if she doesnt watch her step you'll take her to court and go after EVERYTHING. Scare her a little. But you really really need to talk to a lawyer first. I dont know all the little details of your situation. What debts and assets you have. What is in her possession, what's in your possession. What's things are left to settle. If you've signed a separation agreement, or if you even divorced yet! If the papers have been signed and filed with the courts, you have more leg to stand on by telling her to go fly a kite. If they havent, then you need to do that! Divorce is like playing chess. You have to know your current position and pay attention to the end goal. If giving her a little now gives you leeway in demanding other things you really want, then play smart.
quankanne Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 do you have children together? maybe hanging on to that ring until your oldest reaches a certain age might be a good idea, that way you can give it to him or her as a keepsake. otherwise, I'm with the camp that says, you gave her a gift, she eventually returned it, therefore it is rightfully yours. Double check with your lawyer first, but my thought is that once she returned it, she forfeited any rights she had that came with it.
burning 4 revenge Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 Yes his self respect is worth it. Don't let her win. If I were you I would sell the ring today.sell the ring and use it to pay the best divorce attorney possible to get the most from this that you can
tinktronik Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 I pawned my wedding rings for diapers . I got $28 and then bought diapers with it. Keep the ring and sell it.
burning 4 revenge Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 I pawned my wedding rings for diapers . I got $28 and then bought diapers with it. Keep the ring and sell it. you were married?
chadnickole Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 In her ignorance she gave the ring back to you therfore it is yours, screw askin the lawyer. If it comes up you lost it!! Unless of course she bought it with her own money than I'd give it to her!! I have a female friend who bought her own ring @ 10 G's now that she is divorced she plans on selling it and taking her new future boyfriend to Fiji or something!! (the EX husband was a constant cheat) She gave you that ring as a gift of spite!! It is yours more or less IMO!! Tell her you want all the time back you invested in the marriage!! then you will give her the ring!!
tinktronik Posted February 2, 2007 Posted February 2, 2007 you were married? Oh yes I was married for a good while , most of my adult life really , (where did you think I got the 3 kids from?) Im one of the most happily divorced people I know.
LakesideDream Posted February 3, 2007 Posted February 3, 2007 My opinion: You gave your soon to be ex wife a ring to show your love and committment to her in marriage. It was her property from that moment on. Your soon to be ex wife gave you the ring to signify her distain for you, and her complete disregard of your marriage. It was your ring from that moment on. It's yours to do with what you want, just as it was previously hers to do the same.
RecordProducer Posted February 4, 2007 Posted February 4, 2007 Mine... I took a 16lb sledge hammer and flattened it on the garage floor first though.. It was quite the site.. diamond chips flew in all directions.. But I was making the point to her that the ring was not going back on my finger and we were going to get divorced... during our marriage she played this stupid game where if she was pissed at me she would remove her ring till I was out of the dog house.. Couldn't you guys make your points by using something other than diamond rings? It would have been cheaper to bang her head with the hammer instead. Oh, no... I guess the court would consider that as even more hostile?
Recommended Posts