Why is MM avoiding this conversation?

[Jinxx]

I've been reading and being educated from both sides of the coin from this site for awhile now and I've decided to throw out my frist post as I'm just not sure what to make of this.

 

Never did I ever think in a million years that I'd be involved with a MM. I have been a BS so know first hand how that feels and thank God that marriage is long gone. I was married to husband number two for nine years when I started seeing my MM. We were friends first, met him at the gym and it just grew into something more as we both felt a strong attraction towards one another. I knew up front he was married as he did me. Right now, I am legally separated now but not because of MM but because I was in an unfulling relationship doing the blended family thing which is whole other arena, an unfriendly one at that.

 

Anyhow it has been a year that this all started. A couple of weeks ago I told him "we need to talk" and left it open for him to set a time and date to discuss our relationship and if there was indeed one anymore since we he never does find the time to see me. We were spending more time on the phone talking then actually seeing each other and I was starting to get frustrated with the situation. Plus I have gotten to know his wife -- not well but well enough to have small talk with her something we never did before. He has no problem with this, knows I would never say anything to her. Plus our kids know each other and sometimes hang out together.

 

Now he seems to be avoiding me and I don't know why. It has been almost two weeks since I told him that. It was done by IM'ing and he said he would call later. He didn't. We have recently started working together evenings (same department) but are on different schedules at the moment so have not run into him. I ordered something for a friend of his before Christmas that finally came in and I sent him an email asking how to get it to him. He wrote back saying he would come pick it up, acknowledging that we still need to talk and he has been extremely busy and asked me to please be patient. That was a week ago and still nothing. He was on IM this morning for about ten minutes but nothing. The norm is he would call me every couple of days or so and now nothing. We'd IM reguarly and that isn't evening happening.

 

What could going through his head? I did tell him that if he was no longer interested in a physical relationship with me then I was ok (it's not) with it but needed some closure, thus the talk.

 

Any thoughts on why he is avoiding this conversation?

[Salicious Crumb]

I've been reading and being educated from both sides of the coin from this site for awhile now and I've decided to throw out my frist post as I'm just not sure what to make of this.

 

Never did I ever think in a million years that I'd be involved with a MM. I have been a BS so know first hand how that feels and thank God that marriage is long gone.

 

You know how it feels to be betrayed, so now you are part of another woman's betrayal?? Uh....ok.

 

I was married to husband number two for nine years when I started seeing my MM. We were friends first, met him at the gym and it just grew into something more as we both felt a strong attraction towards one another. I knew up front he was married as he did me. Right now, I am legally separated now but not because of MM but because I was in an unfulling relationship doing the blended family thing which is whole other arena, an unfriendly one at that.

 

Translation: "Get bored when in a relationship for too long."

 

Anyhow it has been a year that this all started. A couple of weeks ago I told him "we need to talk" and left it open for him to set a time and date to discuss our relationship and if there was indeed one anymore since we he never does find the time to see me. We were spending more time on the phone talking then actually seeing each other and I was starting to get frustrated with the situation. Plus I have gotten to know his wife -- not well but well enough to have small talk with her something we never did before. He has no problem with this, knows I would never say anything to her. Plus our kids know each other and sometimes hang out together.

 

Oh ya...I can see you are going to do wonders for his family and yours. How proud you must be...but hey...as long as your getting yours right?

 

Now he seems to be avoiding me and I don't know why.

 

Any thoughts on why he is avoiding this conversation?

 

Maybe he finally woke up and realized his family comes first???

[norajane]

Because guys hate having confrontational conversations. Regardless of whether you told him you'd be ok with him telling you he doesn't want the relationship anymore, he's probably expecting recriminations and arguments and anger and tears and whatnot. He would much rather avoid the "we need to talk" discussion than actually have it.

 

He'll put it off as long as he can, I suspect. Since you haven't been seeing each other much anyway - an implication that the affair was waning - you might just want to consider it over and let it go.

[Meredith63]

Men generally hate to have "unpleasant" conversations. LOL, I have been accused of thinking more like a man than a woman and I know that I avoid them like the plague in my personal life.

 

That being said, it does appear that your A has begun waning. I think that I would consider it over and move on.

 

Just my humble opinion... good luck...

[LucreziaBorgia]

It sounds like he is done with the relationship, and is checking out.

 

Any thoughts on why he is avoiding this conversation?

 

Understand that your relationship with him was an "add on", an "extra" - that little escape from reality where he could go to "get away from it all". It wasn't meant to be a real relationship. By wanting to have the "talk", you are making it too real for him to deal with. No man wants to have the "talk", particularly when its with someone expendable to him.

 

I'm sure he would love to continue the physical part - but he'll be more than happy to give that up if you try to attach emotional relationship baggage to it. No MM wants that sort of thing from his OW.

[whichwayisup]

His actions are telling you that he doesn't want to talk about it, the relationship or how serious it is. From what you've said, it just seems he's not interested in what you have to say, meaning, he's not as serious about you as you are about him.

 

Fantasy affair is probably what he enjoys the most. The fun of it, and you trying to get him to talk about feelings, where things are heading is only pushing him away.

 

Hate to say it, but you either have to accept you are the OW in his life and know that he isn't going to commit to you, or make any promises, he'll see you on HIS terms...Or you end it because you need more, and need a man who will love ONLY you.

[Jinxx]

Because guys hate having confrontational conversations. Regardless of whether you told him you'd be ok with him telling you he doesn't want the relationship anymore, he's probably expecting recriminations and arguments and anger and tears and whatnot. He would much rather avoid the "we need to talk" discussion than actually have it.

 

He'll put it off as long as he can, I suspect. Since you haven't been seeing each other much anyway - an implication that the affair was waning - you might just want to consider it over and let it go.

 

This makes sense. We both went into this knowing what it was -- mutual consent from both us, acting on a physical attraction. I never expected him to leave his marriage and would never give him an ultmatium. I know what I am -- the OW and that was fine by me. He won't get anger and tears from me, I think he knows that. I pretty much know for my own sake and sanity that it is over but really would like to hear it from him.

[Jinxx]

It sounds like he is done with the relationship, and is checking out.

 

 

 

Understand that your relationship with him was an "add on", an "extra" - that little escape from reality where he could go to "get away from it all". It wasn't meant to be a real relationship. By wanting to have the "talk", you are making it too real for him to deal with. No man wants to have the "talk", particularly when its with someone expendable to him.

 

I'm sure he would love to continue the physical part - but he'll be more than happy to give that up if you try to attach emotional relationship baggage to it. No MM wants that sort of thing from his OW.

 

Oh I'm sure he wants the physcial part -- at his convenience. As far as the emotional relationship baggage -- he knows I'm not going to play that card on him.

[Jinxx]

Hate to say it, but you either have to accept you are the OW in his life and know that he isn't going to commit to you, or make any promises, he'll see you on HIS terms...Or you end it because you need more, and need a man who will love ONLY you.

 

Accepting my role as the OW, I have done. Since I have always been so readily available on his terms, it makes me wonder if he himself is having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that I am ready to move on and hope to find some nice unattached single man that will be there only for me. MM has become quite accustomed to having me available on his terms. No so much now. As hard as it is for me, I am letting it go but do wonder what he is thinking. Only he knows that for sure. I can only hope that one day he will be ready to talk about it.

[whichwayisup]

he knows I'm not going to play that card on him.

 

But you are, by asking him to "talk". Don't expect and don't treat the affair like a "normal, communicating and sharing" relationship...It's not and his actions are showing you this.

[Jinxx]

But you are, by asking him to "talk". Don't expect and don't treat the affair like a "normal, communicating and sharing" relationship...It's not and his actions are showing you this.

 

Interesting -- I didn't think of it that way.

[Touche]

Interesting -- I didn't think of it that way.

 

Right, and he IS thinking of it "that" way. Anyway, who cares what he thinks? If it's over, it's over. The reasons don't really matter in the end.

[NoIDidn't]

Jinxx

 

I would never use those words ("we need to talk") with my own H. That's the easiest way to make a man run in the opposite direction. Whatever it is that you want to talk about, he doesn't. AND!!! He doesn't have to. He's got a W for those kind of conversations. You are supposed to be fun, passionate, exciting - never confrontational or needy.

 

But it does sound like you are ready to move on. Good for you. And, good luck. Don't worry about him.

[Romeo Must Die]

IMO, the fantasy is ended and it's time to be real. If he has not called or had shown any cosideration for you, then to me that is about as "real" as this MM is ever going to be. Don't be suprised if he calls to resume the affair instead of making an honest woman out of you. How long have you been with him Jinxx? A year? Thats normal to ask for more.

 

[Jinxx]

Jinxx

 

But it does sound like you are ready to move on. Good for you. And, good luck. Don't worry about him.

 

Yes -- I'm ready to jump off the roller coaster. Very hard to do but time to take control back of my own life. That is why I want "the talk". I don't want him to think he can come to me at his convenience as he wants. I want to work through these feelings and try and put back the friendship we had. We work part time together (different days at the moment) so it is not like I can cut him out of my life for good unless one of us decides to leave and thats not very likely to happen. When I told him I was thinking about joining another gym in order to not invade his space he said he was sorry that I felt I needed to do that. Well distance is a good thing for healing. But still want to keep our friendship in tact when and if the time comes or if it is even possible.

[Jinxx]

Don't be suprised if he calls to resume the affair instead of making an honest woman out of you. How long have you been with him Jinxx? A year? Thats normal to ask for more.

 

 

I don't think he will call to resume our affair. If I'm wrong I'll post an update if he ever does call. It has been one year. It lasted longer then I thought it would. Time to move on.

[Romeo Must Die]

You are doing the right thing, you dont want to get mixed up in two divorces simutaniously. Ones hard enough isnt it. Two would be absolutely insane and might have driven your relationship apart either way.

 

So you were a BW, maybe you'll tell us about that sometime. Was MM your escape from the pain? I am a BW too. I don't feel I could be the OW (and not because I think I am a better person, but) because I couldnt do that to my husband, and frankly I am still feeling a little too close to the pain from my husbands affair to I know I couldnt pull that on another person and blindside their relationship. Did befriending the MM's BW give you a bad feeling about this?

 

[Jinxx]

 

So you were a BW, maybe you'll tell us about that sometime. Was MM your escape from the pain? I am a BW too. I don't feel I could be the OW (and not because I think I am a better person, but) because I couldnt do that to my husband, and frankly I am still feeling a little too close to the pain from my husbands affair to I know I couldnt pull that on another person and blindside their relationship. Did befriending the MM's BW give you a bad feeling about this?

 

 

Ok here it is -- I'll make this as short as I can....

 

Yes, I was a BW from husband number one, father of my children. That was in 1994. I married the "love of my life" in the earlys 80's or so I thought. His needs became neglected when the kids came along. His sex drive was extremely high, mine was too but I thought 3-4 times a week was not too bad. Well, he needed more then I could give. And he would have gotten more if he helped me with out with our children's needs rather then leave it all for me. I was not a SAHM and worked full time like he did so I was one exhausted wife and mother.

 

His OW was the sister of his best friend whom we used hang out with (OW's brother and his wife), BBQ, vacation and all kinds of fun things. She was married to someone else too. Her poor husband sold his business and moved to another state because she didn't want to raise her son in CA. While he was establishing a new home life for his family at her request, she she took interest in my husband. I had no clue until my husband finally came clean and told me he wanted a divorce. Of course he denied there was anyone else but it wasn't too hard to figure out after I started doing some snooping, all before cell phones, email and internet. It was the most painful thing I have ever experienced. So I do understand completely what BW's go through. I had two young children (7 & 4) that I would have bent over backwards for to save the marriage. He wasn't interested and after much counselling and soul searching we divorced.

 

I eventually moved on and met future husband number two. My ex-husband married his OW. They are still married so it just goes to show you that there are cases where these type of things can work out. I wish them well now, These days I don't really an opinion one way or the other. They seem to have made a nice life for themselves. It took a long time for me to get over the bitterness and anger but it is possible.

 

I married husband number two for the wrong reasons. I didn't feel the connection or the physcial attraction to him that I had for my ex-husband, the "love of my life" and thought I could never feel that way again about any man. We both were single parents raising our children. We also had similar interests which was a bonus to the relationship. By entering into marriage again it gave me more financial freedom and security then I had being alone, I was tired of struggling. BIG, BIG mistake!

 

As far as MM being an escape from my pain -- no, that was not the case at all. I was very accustomed to living the life I was leading being married to husband number two -- a comfort zone and security except for the blended family issues which were huge. He is a good man and we are even entertaining the idea of a reconcilliation but that is way too premature at this point. He has no idea to this day I was having an affair. I left for other reasons. Plus I don't love him the way I should but then there are those who tell me love comes in all types of ways.

 

I knew my MM for a couple of years as friends. We would talk at the gym about life, our families, etc. We have similar hobbies and interests plus unbeknowst to us, our kids were hanging out with each other prior to us even having a friendship. His wife was usually there too working out as well but we never really spoke to each other. The odd thing is I have been mistaken many times for her. We look and are built very similar, petite, and small, same color of hair, both in our late 40's as is MM. Then it just grew from there and the rest is history.

 

Befriending the MM's wife was an accident. It just seemed like we'd run into each other more and more and we'd end up making small talk. We are not really friends but more like acquaintances. She is a very nice woman, someone I probably could have been very good friends with at one time. I feel no animiosity or jealousy towards her. I think she is a very lucky woman to have all she has. I wish the best for both of them. It is awkward but I'm sure with time the awkwardness will eventually fade.

 

You can't help who you are attracted it to. You can choose to either act or not act on that attracton. Well it was just too tempting for me to see what it be like, the attraction was that strong. I could have easily said "no" but didn't. We could of had our fling and said that was fun, see you around but the chemistry and compatibility was too darn strong for both of us to deny so we kept coming back to each other for seconds, thirds and more.

 

If he was available (separated like me) then absolutely I would want a shot to see if we have what it takes to make a future together, the connection was that strong. I know that is not possible plus I would never say or do anything to upset his home life. That is h is business to deal with, not mine.

 

Would I get inolved again with a MM? I don't think so. The hurt is bad enough as a BW. And it is no different when you end it with a MM. His wife doesn't know and never will so she isn't hurting the way I am. The only difference is that there is no property, kids, friends, family to divide. No divorce lawyers either. So maybe that is a good thing.

[puddleofmud]

Men are USUALLY ones of "action". Women USUALLY need "words".

Women always tend to wonder WHY a man is "acting" in certain way and need to resolve with words. Men just assume that actions are all that is needed, don't they?

Not much satisfaction for a woman when a guy does that! Really sucks for us...after all we are mind-readers! Snark.

However, in order to make a fella understand what we want then perhaps we should forget the words and just ACT by getting off the proverbial roller-coaster with no explanation (no words).

Ticket cancelled, ride over, no more theme-park thrills. At least, with us!

Sometimes that ride could be more gratifying.

Seems like your head is in the right place and you may not get the words you deserve, but you seem to know what is best for you and that's what counts!

Hugs to you!

[frannie]

Now he seems to be avoiding me and I don't know why. It has been almost two weeks since I told him that. It was done by IM'ing and he said he would call later. He didn't. We have recently started working together evenings (same department) but are on different schedules at the moment so have not run into him. I ordered something for a friend of his before Christmas that finally came in and I sent him an email asking how to get it to him. He wrote back saying he would come pick it up, acknowledging that we still need to talk and he has been extremely busy and asked me to please be patient. That was a week ago and still nothing. He was on IM this morning for about ten minutes but nothing. The norm is he would call me every couple of days or so and now nothing. We'd IM reguarly and that isn't evening happening.

 

What could going through his head? I did tell him that if he was no longer interested in a physical relationship with me then I was ok (it's not) with it but needed some closure, thus the talk.

 

Any thoughts on why he is avoiding this conversation?

 

Despite all the 'you're just an affair' 'men don't talk' stuff on this thread, that's not necessarily the case. As you say from your own experience, some MM do divorce and marry their OW... those are real relationships. You don't HAVE to be a piece of entertainment for a MM, with no real rights to conversation because 'that's what the wife is for'. That's just nonsense.

 

My MM will actually initiate discussions between us about what's happening with us. He knows it's needed, and he's not just in the relationship for the sex or as an escape from his marriage. BUT... it has taken a long time to build up to that, a lot of learning about each other and how we communicate... blah blah. *gets back on track*

 

So, what I'm saying here is that NO, affairs aren't all about the OW hushing up and accepting what's given. It can be a relationship like any other, not just a lot of fluff and escapism. So... IF your MM is avoiding conversation in this way, then there's something wrong.

 

What that is... I just don't know. My guess would be the obvious: that he doesn't want to face the truth, or wants it to remain fluff and a diversion from his life, and doesn't want to actually have to SAY that as a response to your questions. I'd say that the fact you spend a lot of time on IM would also indicate that too: he's uncomfortable with real, live conversations because it's a lot harder to be evasive there (just guessing).

 

I imagine that you want more from this than he's prepared to give, and he realises this and is avoiding the truth of that coming out.

[Jinxx]

Despite all the 'you're just an affair' 'men don't talk' stuff on this thread, that's not necessarily the case. As you say from your own experience, some MM do divorce and marry their OW... those are real relationships. You don't HAVE to be a piece of entertainment for a MM, with no real rights to conversation because 'that's what the wife is for'. That's just nonsense.

 

My MM will actually initiate discussions between us about what's happening with us. He knows it's needed, and he's not just in the relationship for the sex or as an escape from his marriage. BUT... it has taken a long time to build up to that, a lot of learning about each other and how we communicate... blah blah. *gets back on track*

 

So, what I'm saying here is that NO, affairs aren't all about the OW hushing up and accepting what's given. It can be a relationship like any other, not just a lot of fluff and escapism. So... IF your MM is avoiding conversation in this way, then there's something wrong.

 

What that is... I just don't know. My guess would be the obvious: that he doesn't want to face the truth, or wants it to remain fluff and a diversion from his life, and doesn't want to actually have to SAY that as a response to your questions. I'd say that the fact you spend a lot of time on IM would also indicate that too: he's uncomfortable with real, live conversations because it's a lot harder to be evasive there (just guessing).

 

I imagine that you want more from this than he's prepared to give, and he realises this and is avoiding the truth of that coming out.

 

What I am having a hard time dealing with is the fact that it was not just an affair. We spent many times speaking to each other, learning about each other and having a real friendship, laughing, joking and just having good conversation. I know more that I probably should know about his family, very private stuff so there was a level of trust in which he trusted me enough to confide in. He shares everything with me. It was more than a quick roll in the hay. We leaned on each other for support, shared how our day went, discussed what are kids were doing, etc. I feel like I have lost my best friend. I'm human and it hurts. He's human but a man and apparently not hurting like I am.

 

If he doesn't call or initiate a chat with me on IM -- and he had a chance yesterday because he was on for 30 minutes before I had to close out, we will eventually see each other as we work evenings at the same store. It is only a matter of time that we will be put on the same shift. I was hoping to have this conversation to avoid any awkwardness at work. I was in no way trying to put him on the spot but rather just wanted him to define our relationship in his words, i.e., physical or just friends now as I have noticed a change. I was feeling frustrated.

 

You are right in saying I want more than he can give. But I will settle for his friendship if that is all he has to offer right now. My options are wide open. I think I mentioned the possibility of reconcilling with my husband but really unsure of that and am leaving myself open to meet other people for the next six months until I have to make a decision.

 

But you are right -- he is avoiding this for some reason. Why -- I don't know. I hope he has the balls to man up and talk to me.

[Jinxx]

Men are USUALLY ones of "action". Women USUALLY need "words".

we should forget the words and just ACT by getting off the proverbial roller-coaster with no explanation (no words).

Ticket cancelled, ride over, no more theme-park thrills. At least, with us!

Sometimes that ride could be more gratifying.

Seems like your head is in the right place and you may not get the words you deserve, but you seem to know what is best for you and that's what counts!

Hugs to you!

 

I absolutely love the way you presented this. So true! My head is in the right place but I sure have my moments every now and then.

[torranceshipman]

puddle of mudd i agree with jinxx, that rollercoaster analogy is brilliant...!

[stillafool]

This makes sense. We both went into this knowing what it was -- mutual consent from both us, acting on a physical attraction. I never expected him to leave his marriage and would never give him an ultmatium. I know what I am -- the OW and that was fine by me. He won't get anger and tears from me, I think he knows that. I pretty much know for my own sake and sanity that it is over but really would like to hear it from him.

 

I think based on the above comment "acting on physical attraction" he doesn't and didn't expect any emotional feelings to enter your relationship. Now you have crossed the line and that takes all of the fun out of it for him. The "talk" is something that he would do only with his wife.

 

I think you would be smart to move on from him. It is hard for a woman to have sex with a man without it involving your emotions.

[bellababygirl]

Hey my alter ego...did you know we are schizo??? According to some that is??? Someone has too much time on their hands...you know who you are...you posted the link to this thread! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: