tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 WARNING - I don't know much about triggers but this post might contain some regarding rape so read at your own risk if that is applicable to you. I would, however, greatly appreciate feedback from women who may be able to relate. So I started seeing this new girl a little over a month ago and we made it official last week. However, last weekend we go into a big argument where we broke up. We spoke on Sunday for 3 hours and I thought things were pretty much resolved. She spent the night at my place Sunday night and by Monday (yesterday) afternoon we were back together. However, last night we got into another argument and I think things are pretty much done at this point. To give a little background, I'm 29, the girl is 24. She works as an advocate and counselor at a rape crisis center. She's been doing it for I think about 6 months to a year and it is, of course, a very emotionally instensive job. She was also raped 3 years ago and didn't date for a while after that. She said she couldn't even kiss anyone for about a year and a half. I've asked her before if she thinks her job and her personal experiences have left her with a warped view on men (because I suspected it had) and she fully admitted that that was true and she has a tendency to push people away. Things were going well for the most part up until last weekend and we got along great but she admitted that she was consciously trying not to fall into the same pattern of pushing people away. Anyway, yesterday afternoon when we spoke on the phone she sounded really happy and upbeat (that was when she asked me to get back together per the previous night's conversation). I figured things were resolved and we were good to go. She asked me to call her last night so I told her I would. When I called last night it was a 180 degree turn from how she sounded earlier that day. I asked her how she was doing and she said "not so good". She was stressed out about work and about us. So I asked her what specifically had her stressed out. She had a really intense day and previous night (she was on call and had to go out to a site at 1:30am) and that was affecting her. It kind of snowballed into her going off on me about stuff that I thought we had already resolved. She was basically telling me (repeating, really) all the things she thought I did wrong over the weekend. She then got even more upset that I wasn't being understanding and nice to her. Now, when things are good, I'm naturally pretty affectionate. But I do admit that in arguments I tend to be very cold and standoffish. I do it sort of on purpose because I've had issues with anger and so now I try to detach myself emotionally from the situation so I don't blow up at the person (or lessen the likelihood thereof). I tried to calm her down but she went from weeping to crying to full on sobbing so hard it sounded like it was hard for her to breathe. I was totally at a loss for words. After some silence she gathered herself a bit and we were able to talk more calmly but that didn't last long. She said something about how she thinks about us at work and things at work trigger her own issues that then relate to me, or something like that. She said that she knows part of it is unrelated to me personally but admitted that it still happens. She then went on to say that I needed to be more understanding. I told her that I can try to be understanding but that she has to realize I'm still a person and can only take so much. I'm willing to let some things go when she goes off on things she dislikes about me but I can only let so much go. I told her that just because she has traumatic issues to deal with doesn't give her free reign to say whatever she wants to me and she should at least say what she has to say in a respectful manner. At that point she hung up and we haven't spoken since. Obviously I don't know what it's like to be a woman who was raped so my main question, I guess, is at what point does trying to be understanding end? Or, how much is a person allowed to unload on you before they're crossing the line?
CaliGuy Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 at what point does trying to be understanding end? Or, how much is a person allowed to unload on you before they're crossing the line? TB, from what you've said she still isn't quite ready to be in a relationship. I also think that while it's very noble of her to be in job where she can help people and relate to them I also think to a large extent it's unhealthy because she's constantly being reminded her own misfortunes. It keeps her in that unhealthy place (state of mind). Bottom line is she isn't dating material, for you. That doesn't mean she is a bad person. I just think she needs to slay those demons before she's really ready to date.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 I also think that while it's very noble of her to be in job where she can help people and relate to them I also think to a large extent it's unhealthy because she's constantly being reminded her own misfortunes. Yeah. Last night I actually asked her if she thinks she should look into doing something else. She said she thought about it but isn't sure. Bottom line is she isn't dating material, for you. That doesn't mean she is a bad person. I just think she needs to slay those demons before she's really ready to date. Yeah. It sucks because I think she's a really good person.
Storyrider Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 It sounds like it is hard for her to see you clearly right now because of all the filters from her past experiences. She is seeing you more as an enemy or a symbol of what she perceives as "the enemy" Men? Her rapist? It is almost impossible to have a real relationship with this fog in the way.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 It sounds like it is hard for her to see you clearly right now because of all the filters from her past experiences. She is seeing you more as an enemy or a symbol of what she perceives as "the enemy" Men? Her rapist? Ok. It's good to get validation that I'm not alone in thinking that might be the case.
serial muse Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Aw, Tan, I'm really sorry to hear this. I haven't experienced that trauma, but I do think that you handled the situation as best you could - it sounds like you tried to be understanding and respectful, while remaining protective of your own feelings. I don't see anything wrong with that, and most likely, she doesn't either, deep down. I'm sure it's hard for her to be truly fair to you right now, which is a shame. But it doesn't mean you should martyr yourself or just take it. I think you did what you could, so kudos to you for trying to be there for her.
blind_otter Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 I agree with Serial, you handled the situation as best you could considering what you were getting from her. I'll be frank. This girl is wack. She isn't over her rape and is doing herself a considerable disservice exposing herself to that occupation in her current state. I tried to be involved when I was in undergraduate with a rape crisis group on campus about 4 years after my second rape and I couldn't even go to the meetings. Not that my situation is generalizeable to all rape victims, but from how she reacted and flipped out it seems pretty obvious to me. Maybe she has some misguided idea that by over exposing herself to the traumatic situations in her job, it will accelerate her healing. who knows. Did she seek therapy after the incident? Does she claim to be recovered or to at least have dealt with her rape? Can she talk about it with you?
Art_Critic Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 I also think that while it's very noble of her to be in job where she can help people and relate to them I also think to a large extent it's unhealthy because she's constantly being reminded her own misfortunes. It keeps her in that unhealthy place (state of mind). I'm only a guy but I think CaliGuy has a very good point about her job.. Some people have to get right back up on that horse in order to be all right and some need more time.. Your GF is dealing with her pain by helping others that are going thru something like she did.. Noble.. It doesn't mean however that she should be doing that or that she is healed.. I do think you need to have a talk with her about it.. Is their someone that has gone thru the rape with her that is still in her life.. maybe a best friend ? If there is maybe a third party ( almost like a therapist ) needs to help with this problem..
quankanne Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 asking that you be more understanding or considerate of her needs also means that she must be more responsible for her actions in y'alls relationship, i.e., you shouldn't be expected to give when she won't. relationships are tricky at best, but having an emotional and physical trauma like hers factored in makes it all the harder when she hasn't quite figured out how to move past that trauma towards healing. maybe the right (and fair) thing for y'alls relationship is to gently ask her what she will bring to the table when she wants you to be more considerate. How she answers will help you determine if she's headed toward healing or is still mired in her trauma. good luck, TB – she sounds like a sweet enough girl as it is ...
Sand&Water Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 RE: Unfortunately -or, fortunately -you can't out stretch your mind around the situation. What is done -is done. I believe she expects motherly love from you -in one form or another. How is her relationship with her mother like? She, obviously, is hiding behind a large brick barrier. Therefore, assuming that getting into a relationship will aid in bringing down the barrier -is wrong. You provided self-less respect and understanding. This is where the line should be drawn. Her clam attitude is causing her more anguish, and harm than good. She is sabotaging her chances. Should you continue to see her? This is up to you. But, you definitely should talk to her about everything. Regards, Sand&Water
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 Not that my situation is generalizeable to all rape victims, but from how she reacted and flipped out it seems pretty obvious to me. Maybe she has some misguided idea that by over exposing herself to the traumatic situations in her job, it will accelerate her healing. who knows. I vaguely remember her saying something to that effect. Did she seek therapy after the incident? Does she claim to be recovered or to at least have dealt with her rape? Can she talk about it with you? I don't know if she got therapy after it. I think she did but not positive. She doesn't claim to be completely over it and there were two instances in the middle of sex where she broke down in tears which was the first time I've ever been exposed to something like that. In general she's not too repressed about physical stuff though. Honestly, we haven't talked in detail about the rape. I purposely haven't asked her about it because we've only known each other for a little over a month and I figured I'd just let her tell me as she wants. That sort of backfired, though, and was something she brought up as being upset about when we spoke on Sunday. I explained my reasoning but she felt I was in the wrong for not asking her more about it. I do think you need to have a talk with her about it.. Is their someone that has gone thru the rape with her that is still in her life.. maybe a best friend ? I don't know. I also don't think she wants to hear from me right now. asking that you be more understanding or considerate of her needs also means that she must be more responsible for her actions in y'alls relationship, i.e., you shouldn't be expected to give when she won't. I agree. That's basically what I was getting at towards the end of last night's conversation but her response to that before hanging up was "Can we not talk about you for two seconds?"
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 I believe she expects motherly love from you -in one form or another. How is her relationship with her mother like? Not good. She claims her mom verbally and physically abused her growing up.
blind_otter Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 That sort of backfired, though, and was something she brought up as being upset about when we spoke on Sunday. I explained my reasoning but she felt I was in the wrong for not asking her more about it. "Can we not talk about you for two seconds?" IMO she has unrealistic expectations about the relationship. I did the same thing after I was raped. I got together with my exH expecting that he would magically heal me. All that happened was that we both ended up wounded from the experience. It seems like she has a good handle on what she needs. But what about what YOU need?
stace79 Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 I was raped....I'm curious as to what kinds of things she argued with you about. Did you make insensitive comments about rape? Or was it something more specific to your relationship?
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 IMO she has unrealistic expectations about the relationship. I did the same thing after I was raped. I got together with my exH expecting that he would magically heal me. All that happened was that we both ended up wounded from the experience. It seems like she has a good handle on what she needs. But what about what YOU need? I don't know if that was rhetorical but I don't think she really cares what I need. I was raped....I'm curious as to what kinds of things she argued with you about. Did you make insensitive comments about rape? Or was it something more specific to your relationship? Well what really set everything off over the weekend was Friday night. We were arguing about basically a pretty lame miscommunication but is escalated from there until she stormed out of the room to go to bed. I let her sleep for an hour before joining her but she kept bringing things up. She also has a tendency to ask me a question but not listen to the answer. I finally got so fed up I replied with, "When are you going to get it through your thick, f**king head that (blah blah blah, repeated answer)". Granted a dick move on my part which I apologized for later but that's what prompted the initial breakup. Stuff like that is also why I try to detach myself from arguments. Some of the other stuff we argued about was what was listed above about me not asking her about the rape. She also has trust issues and kind of expects me to jump through hoops to prove I'm "worthy" of her. After our 3 hour phone conversation on Sunday, she came over and was very affectionate. In the morning I asked her if that meant we were back together but she said she wasn't sure. She said she didn't feel comfortable around me. I told her I thought that was bull**** because she wouldn't have come over at 3am if that were true. That's one thing she brought up last night.
blind_otter Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Well I've said it before about other things and I'll say it about rape as well. Being raped isn't an excuse for behavior badly or being reactive, but sadly a lot of people use it as such. Being raped means you have more obstacles in your path, and that it may be more difficult to control your reactivity and emotions in certain situations -- but that gives you even more of a reason to heal and become a better person. IMO your girl there hasn't gotten to the point where she has processed what happened to her. So I think all in all you handled the situation as best you could considering the circumstances, TB.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Posted January 30, 2007 IMO your girl there hasn't gotten to the point where she has processed what happened to her. So I think all in all you handled the situation as best you could considering the circumstances, TB. Thanks, homie.
guin_girl Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 Tan, I can't imagine doing the counseling position that your lady is doing. As a victim of date rape (you didn't say if it was someone she knew or a complete stranger), I know that it has affected every relationship I have ever had. It's always in the back of my head that if someone I trusted could turn on me, why wouldn't this one. Therefore I have huge trust issues. But when I hear about others who have been raped and I try to work with them (especially the years directly afterwards) I was reliving the same "experience" over and over. It was horrible. And so hard. This monster stole my virginity, and months afterwards I did go back to my HS sweetheart, who I had never been with and tried to "fix" myself by seeing how it was to be with someone who loved me... oh man BIG mistake. (He was wonderful about what happened, it was having sex too soon that was the mistake.) After that, I pretty much stayed away from sex, I dated, but the thought of sex or the actions were too painful. It took me several years to get past that. Did this "change" in her happen after consumation? It may be that she's pushing herself too hard to be "normal" (for lack of a better term). She definitely is not in a place where she has come to terms with what has happened to her. A violation of her body and her mind... it's a HORRIBLE thing to endure and even harder to get past (note NOT over). And that she relives the rape with every victim that she works with, only prolongs that pain that she's working through herself. I think she is a wonderful person to give back to others, she must have gone through therapy to feel so strongly about wanting to help. The issue with her Mom, man I can understand that, I did not get any sympathy and was told that I was a slut and a whore... thank goodness Dad was there for me and supported me emotionally. She wants support, she needs to talk it through still, it's a big undertaking and you will have to tread lightly, because like I said, each victim she is helping is opening that wound over and over. Good luck.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Posted January 31, 2007 you didn't say if it was someone she knew or a complete stranger I don't know. I don't know very many details about it. Did this "change" in her happen after consumation? Not exactly. The relationship was consummated pretty early on. It seems like she's gotten progressively more emotional fairly steadily over the past several weeks, pretty much in line with the amount of time we've spent together and as the attachment has formed.
dropdeadlegs Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 It's not your job to be her counselor, just her boyfriend. I think she's asking too much of you in the way of "understanding" in a brand new relationship. You haven't know her that long and it would be different if you were her BF when this happened, but how are you supposed to know that she wanted you to ask more about her rape? I would assume that it would be an uncomfortable thing to talk about, and if she wanted you to know more about what happened and how it has affected her, I honestly think that was her place to fill you in. Not your place to probe. I'm sure that rape is not something that is easy to get past, but I don't think she is healthy enough herself to be counseling others at this point. That would be a tough job, period, but it may be keeping her "stuck" in her own bad place mentally to have to continually deal with rape and its long lasting effects. She may do herself more good by attending rape survivor support meetings than engaging in her vocation.
Guest Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 hey, what a great post. i can see a real opportunity here now for both of you to come together and really work on this in a way that will make every other experience less of a concern. i think you both did a great job - and u didn't pressure, smoother, u drew the line u needed and she did want she needed, and that built up credibility and respect. the only thing i can think of to work on immediately is this: she needs some downtime away from that job, so, if you are both living together - work together to make a plan so she can stay home and rest and start looking for things that are more positive. so her love and attention and make sure you both keep up the good work. it will get easier as this goes. don't tell her what she should tell you, just offer to listen and help her unconditionally and do the little things that show affection and love - and you both will be fine. remember, change is possible and dreams do come true - congrats to both - you 2 rawk!
guin_girl Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 It seems like she's gotten progressively more emotional fairly steadily over the past several weeks, pretty much in line with the amount of time we've spent together and as the attachment has formed. Sounds about right; I was way more intense with my HS bf then when we dated the 4-5 years prior. She was the same age I was when it happened. I honestly didn't get past it myself until 5-6 years afterwards. The guy I dated 3 years afterwards was wonderful to help me feel secure, that was my biggest issue. I broke down and cried with him too, many times... freaked him out... he didn't know prior, I thought I was over it. (I also had a stalker in the middle of this issue too, that's how I met him). I was scared, so scared I stayed with him way longer than I should have, because he was comfortable. Are you her first potential bf since the incident? If not how did the other relationships end? There are a lot of factors that are part of the equation. You need to know what she wants/needs from you.
Star Gazer Posted January 31, 2007 Posted January 31, 2007 I also think that while it's very noble of her to be in job where she can help people and relate to them I also think to a large extent it's unhealthy because she's constantly being reminded her own misfortunes. It keeps her in that unhealthy place (state of mind). I completely disagree with this. As someone who has been raped as a teenager and later in life blatantly sexually harassed in the workplace as a professional, there was nothing more therapeutic for me than working at a rape crisis center in college and NOW practicing employment law with an emphasis in sexual harassment (and I actually represent employers!). Given her experiences, I think it's natural for her to have some behaviors towards men/dating/etc. and memories that trigger her experience. But it sounds like she's going off on your for things that aren't related to those "triggers," am I correct? I mean, what were you supposedly "doing wrong all weekend"? For example, I have a problem with "jack rabbit" sex because THAT is a trigger for me of what I personally experienced. I also have a complete inability to have sex with a guy who's intoxicated if I'm not as well. For other girls, you can't touch their neck. Walk behind them. Wear a beanie. Follow me? Those are the sorts of triggers where you should be "understanding." In a general sense, trust is also an issue - but not how you'd expect (cheating, lying, etc.), but more of a physical sense. IMO, she's asking too much of you...to be her emotional garbage disposal or something. I think her "issues" extend far beyond her experience in being raped. While it's a horrible experience, it's just like any other in the sense that you can't use it as an excuse for being a ****head. Unfortunately, many people play the martyr role and expect you to tolerate levels of bulls*t that you never would with anyone else just because they deserve a "politeness handicap" on the account they were assaulted. It's a horrible experience, and something that the victim has to deal with in life... it will obviously make relationships (particularly physical relationships) with men a little more difficult/awkward/different/whatever. But by no means does it give the victim free license to behave as she is. In addition, your description of her emotional sounds very up and down, up and down...with very high peaks and very low-lows. The general affect of a rape victim is depression...low, low, low, and for a very long time. I suspect she might also have some sort of manic disorder that may have been triggered by this trauma.
Author tanbark813 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Posted January 31, 2007 You haven't know her that long and it would be different if you were her BF when this happened, but how are you supposed to know that she wanted you to ask more about her rape? I would assume that it would be an uncomfortable thing to talk about, and if she wanted you to know more about what happened and how it has affected her, I honestly think that was her place to fill you in. Not your place to probe. Yeah, that was my mindset as well. I also told her that while I'm all ears if she wants to talk about it, I'd rather focus my time and energy on forming new, pleasant memories with her than reliving bad stuff from her past. She didn't fully agree with that. Are you her first potential bf since the incident? If not how did the other relationships end? There are a lot of factors that are part of the equation. You need to know what she wants/needs from you. I know she's had at least two other bf's before me since the incident. One was a guy she knew for a while who ended up cheating on her. She didn't really say why she broke up with the other guy other than "he was selfish" but now I'm kind of wondering if she put him in the same position she's putting me. I don't think they were together very long.
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