how do you handle the separation when you should have NC

[scubafish]

I posted a long story here yesterday, but now I am not sure how to deal with this part. He agreed to move out while we start a separation, but how do I handle things like if he calls to ask how I am? or how the dogs are? if I need anything? I know this separation is to help me heal, but how will he know I am open to reconcile if I am giving him the 'cold shoulder'?

 

short story-- His emotions are telling him to move on with her, but his brain says it might be a big mistake to do so and that he still loves me and can see a good life in future here, but he can't get both on the same track right now. but he says it is not fair for him to leave me hanging in here while he works out his solution, and he won't committ to anything.

 

where does this leave me, except to try to let go. I know looking at my story from the outside, most would say to give up and move on.

but here on the inside, it is still a different view. His emotions and mind are in 2 different places. He has not had to face any real loss yet and I guess I am hoping it will kick him. but I can hardly stand to look at him right now. I just don't want to throw everything away so quickly.

 

also, his Bday is in 2 days, and his mom/family want me to come over for dinner. I have said 'No', but feel bad about it. They know everything already. but tell me I should come over to see them, not him. should I put on a face and go?

[whichwayisup]

Don't go. As much as it would be good in a sense, don't go ... You not going shows him that life goes on without you. That if he chooses HER, then you aren't part of his life and that means his birthday. You can though, still keep intouch with his side of the family on your own, without him. I'm sure they want that too...

 

You aren't throwing it away quickly, he is. He's the one who can't decide and you taking charge is showing him that you won't be second best to him.

[Scrivdog]

Don't go. The NC part is going to be excruciating for you especially considering that he'll be with her. Do a google search on "No contact" and "breakup".

 

The NC is to help you heal more than as a manipulation. It kust so happens to have the effect of making the other person miss you. But any contact you have in that time will set you back to day 1. So that means no calls, no answering calls, no texting, no happy birthdays, no anything. Psychologically this is powerful.

 

I don't give that new relationship a month given that he's starting out very ambivalent. Soon enough, their daily life is going to sap all the fun and glamour away from their romance and he's going to want to reach out to you for reassurance that you're still there for him in case things don't work out.

 

That's when staying silent is most effective. Because then he's going to wonder what you're doing, who you're dating. He's going to imagine how well you're doing without him, etc. He's going to realize he doesn't have you anymore. All he has is this very ordinary woman next to him with whom he now really not sure he wants to stay with for another day anymore. Then he's going to feel didain for his OW.

 

Then, at some point, he's likely to want back in with you.

 

But the real decision to be made at that point is yours. Do you really want to deal with this at all if he does want back?

[Ladyjane14]

I agree with Scrivdog and WWIU.... particularly on this point:

 

The NC is to help you heal more than as a manipulation. It kust so happens to have the effect of making the other person miss you. But any contact you have in that time will set you back to day 1. So that means no calls, no answering calls, no texting, no happy birthdays, no anything. Psychologically this is powerful.

 

The BEST way to look at this is not so much as a "manipulation" to get your husband back. Plan B is for YOU. If he comes back, great. If not, you're ALREADY on the road to recovery.

 

The important thing to remember is that your marriage, for all intents and purposes, is OVER. The old marriage is dead, destroyed by the affair. You need to say good-bye to it, because it's not worth having back in it's present condition. If something new is eventually built... it'll be just that... "something new".

 

My suggestion to you would be to write the traditional "Plan B" letter. The letter is kind of like a roadmap home. It lets him know what the boundaries are and under what circumstances you'll accept him back.

 

It is, first and foremost, a love letter. You might start out by sharing some fond memories and letting him know WHY you still love him. Then you'll paint him a lovely picture of the kind of future you imagine for the two of you should you ever reconnect and recover the marriage. You'll apologize for whatever YOU might have brought to the marriage table that was never addressed in a satisfactory way (Do NOT admit alot of fault here that might be used against you in divorce proceedings, but let him know there are things you are AWARE of the things you can improve on.)

 

Then... it's time to lay down the law. Your boundaries need to be established and he needs to know how he can EARN his way back. You don't have to phrase it just that way... but essentially, that's what he needs to do. You're not going to make any promises about waiting for him either. I wouldn't set any kind of time-table, but he needs to feel the clock ticking. Something open-ended like, "If I haven't moved on, we'll talk" might be better.

 

Common examples of boundaries would be things like committing to NO CONTACT EVER with the OW, and maybe marriage counseling for a year. Whatever you need in order to feel like he's committing himself to the marriage. Bear in mind that everytime he busts through a boundary, your best bet is to toss him out again until he gets it right, so keep them simple and make it just what you NEED.

 

Your husband is still coming to you for EN (emotional needs) fulfillment. Even fulfilling just a simple EN like allowing him to reassure himself that you are still waiting in the wings, will enable his affair when you're in Plan B. Worse, it reopens your wounds when he takes his fill and then crawls back to OW. There needs to be a stark contrast between having you in his life and NOT being able to come to you anymore. This is not something you can be wishy-washy about. Scriv is right. It sets you back to Day One everytime.

 

Meanwhile back at the ranch... I think you should block any and all sources of contact for the OW. She's been working you for sympathy... just like she's been working your husband. She's on the verge of RUINING everything good and meaningful in his life. She is your ENEMY. Never forget it.

 

The 'damsel in distress' type is good at eliciting sympathy. It's her trade. It's how she gets both emotional and financial support. Underneath it all though... you better KNOW she's a user. Some are of the narcissistic bent, who feel the world at large owes them a living. Some are insecure, and need the constant reassurance of attracting new men. But whatever the personality defect is... she's no friend of yours. STOP letting her play with your head. Block her access to you.

 

Once you step back from all this, you cannot put yourself in a position where you are the GLUE that helps her keep it together with YOUR husband. It's doubtful that she has a damn thing in common with him. If left to her own devices... she's most likely to fall flat on her face. Don't forget, he ALREADY knows that she's a cheater, both as an OW and as a committed partner to the man she lives with. If they don't have a common foe to unite them, they're left dealing with each other. I reckon it won't be long before your husband realizes he's just another meal-ticket to her.

[Ladyjane14]

p.s. If you don't feel comfortable turning down a chance to visit the in-laws, why not invite your mother-in-law out to lunch or something on another day?

 

It'll give you an opportunity to reassure her that you'd still prefer to be a part of the family if given your druthers, and who knows? ... she might end up being a supportive ally for you.

[scubafish]

scrivdog, thank you for making me feel special with those comments:cool:

 

ladyjane, thanks for the comments on writing a letter. I must have missed that part of plan 'b', but it sounds logical.

i am not sure what he thinks is going to happen when he leaves, so I probably need to tell him not to call or stop by. if he needs anything from house, he needs to make appt, so I can leave first?

I'll go do some searches on NC and breakup. it is just hard when you have all your 'stuff' together.

I do know that this is the breaking up part, not meant for 'manipulating' him back, but I suppose we all hope for a while that it is not really over.

[Ladyjane14]

...probably need to tell him not to call or stop by. if he needs anything from house, he needs to make appt, so I can leave first?

 

In your PBL, tell him that you can't be around him while he's messing with OW, and as long as that particular situation continues to exist, you're not going to be able to have him in your life. Tell him it's hurting you emotionally, and also causing you to lose your loving feelings for him. Tell him he needs to abide by your decision unless he's willing to commit to NC with the OW and work on the marriage.

[Scrivdog]

I dunno if I'd even tell him that he's hurting you emotionally. I'd actually try and be upbeat on the phone (yeah I know, I know, but this is important). You need to send the message that you're fine and he's not hurting you in the least. Trust me on this one.

 

Telling him you can't be there is perfect, but always have it seem it's because you have to do something or be somewhere. Tell him you'd just "looove" to see him, but you just can't right now. "Maybe next time, bye!" Keep the conversations ultra short.

 

I wouldn't even discuss his deal with the OW. Pretend you don't even care.

 

In your PBL, tell him that you can't be around him while he's messing with OW, and as long as that particular situation continues to exist, you're not going to be able to have him in your life. Tell him it's hurting you emotionally, and also causing you to lose your loving feelings for him. Tell him he needs to abide by your decision unless he's willing to commit to NC with the OW and work on the marriage.

[Ladyjane14]

I dunno if I'd even tell him that he's hurting you emotionally. I'd actually try and be upbeat on the phone (yeah I know, I know, but this is important). You need to send the message that you're fine and he's not hurting you in the least. Trust me on this one.

 

Telling him you can't be there is perfect, but always have it seem it's because you have to do something or be somewhere. Tell him you'd just "looove" to see him, but you just can't right now. "Maybe next time, bye!" Keep the conversations ultra short.

 

I wouldn't even discuss his deal with the OW. Pretend you don't even care.

 

Interesting! I would've been inclined to believe that NOT admitting to any emotional pain or any desire to revisit the marital relationship would enable the affair by making the rationalization/justification of it easier for the WH. You know, something along the lines of... "Well if she doesn't care, than why not".

 

Do you think most men would respond better to a wife acting like she's completely moved on? Is that a 'man-thing'???

[Scrivdog]

It a woman thing, too, baby! You need to remove the safety net. If the only reason he comes back is because he feels he wasn't justified enough, then he didn't come back.

 

But if he feels that she doesn't need/want him after all, the natural tendency is to hold the BS in higher regard. If she looks like she's moving on and maybe even dating (that's for later), he'll flip out.

 

The worst thing she can do at this point is act like she has enough emotional attachment to him to allow him to come back whenever he wants. That's why the NC is important. His imagination will be his worst enemy, he'll miss her, and he'll wonder what the @#%&* he's doing with this new broad. He'll try to call or write to get reassurance that she still wants him. Not getting that will be very upsetting to him. And only THEN will he start reevaluating.

 

It's psychologically devastating. It's mental napalm.

 

Interesting! I would've been inclined to believe that NOT admitting to any emotional pain or any desire to revisit the marital relationship would enable the affair by making the rationalization/justification of it easier for the WH. You know, something along the lines of... "Well if she doesn't care, than why not".

 

Do you think most men would respond better to a wife acting like she's completely moved on? Is that a 'man-thing'???

[Ladyjane14]

I'm gonna have to mull on that a bit more. I can certainly see the value in "opening the cage door".... but I'm wondering if you end up dealing with Pride and maybe even Fear.

I can see the potential for a WS to have trouble admitting that he went too far and wants to come home. And I'm wondering if his fear of being relegated to the doghouse in perpetuity might not be magnified by approaching from a perceived position of being unwanted.

 

On the other hand... there's value to be had in "the chase". If that's a motivating factor for a guy (or gal), it's gonna make 'em step up their game a bit.

[Scrivdog]

You're very cerebral .. that I understand. But we're talking about a guy who lets his emotions run the show. Most people do.

 

He's very unlikely to have really understood the implications of losing his wife for good until he can taste the feeling of her loss. And he won't get that until she feels gone.

 

If she does this NC right, my money is definitely on him swallowing his pride and trying to come back. It happens all the time ..!

 

I'm gonna have to mull on that a bit more. I can certainly see the value in "opening the cage door".... but I'm wondering if you end up dealing with Pride and maybe even Fear.

I can see the potential for a WS to have trouble admitting that he went too far and wants to come home. And I'm wondering if his fear of being relegated to the doghouse in perpetuity might not be magnified by approaching from a perceived position of being unwanted.

 

On the other hand... there's value to be had in "the chase". If that's a motivating factor for a guy (or gal), it's gonna make 'em step up their game a bit.

[Ladyjane14]

He's very unlikely to have really understood the implications of losing his wife for good until he can taste the feeling of her loss. And he won't get that until she feels gone.

 

If she does this NC right, my money is definitely on him swallowing his pride and trying to come back. It happens all the time ..!

 

I agree. Sometimes a guy (or gal) just doesn't get it until the front door slams on their fanny.

 

Still... maybe there's room here to split the difference.

 

She could keep the PBL heartfelt, but downplay the potential for recovery by letting him know that she's not sitting around waiting indefinitely. I do think she should write one though. It's designed to be a love letter and should relay emotional information, but it's more important function is to set boundaries, so I think it's necessary. Those boundaries need to be in place, or she'll just end up spending YEARS of her life trying to sort this thing out.

 

After that, she can then let him observe a 180 in her behavior. IOW... she gives him the words this one last time, and even though he's not allowed to be in contact with her, he sees her through the lens of other people... going out, smiling, being social, changing the decor at home, and all the other various and sundry things people do when they've REALLY moved on.

 

I think in that case.. the words and actions not quite matching up might drive his curiosity, and lend more credence to the idea that the clock is ticking. In essence, it's... "I love you... but f*ck off". And he doesn't get to feel special about himself, secure in the knowlege that she's sitting home in a puddle of tears.

[Scrivdog]

Sounds like a plan ..!

 

I agree. Sometimes a guy (or gal) just doesn't get it until the front door slams on their fanny.

 

Still... maybe there's room here to split the difference.

 

She could keep the PBL heartfelt, but downplay the potential for recovery by letting him know that she's not sitting around waiting indefinitely. I do think she should write one though. It's designed to be a love letter and should relay emotional information, but it's more important function is to set boundaries, so I think it's necessary. Those boundaries need to be in place, or she'll just end up spending YEARS of her life trying to sort this thing out.

 

After that, she can then let him observe a 180 in her behavior. IOW... she gives him the words this one last time, and even though he's not allowed to be in contact with her, he sees her through the lens of other people... going out, smiling, being social, changing the decor at home, and all the other various and sundry things people do when they've REALLY moved on.

 

I think in that case.. the words and actions not quite matching up might drive his curiosity, and lend more credence to the idea that the clock is ticking. In essence, it's... "I love you... but f*ck off". And he doesn't get to feel special about himself, secure in the knowlege that she's sitting home in a puddle of tears.

[scubafish]

I love hearing this from man/woman point of view. I think I will try to split the difference in this letter, I started writing it yesterday, but haven't gotten too far.

I am not sure how to handle stating that I am 'waiting' though. I think I am going to leave that out, maybe just mention a few memories, tell him I wish he could have had it in his heart to actually make an effort at reconnecting, but he needs to do what he needs to do at this point. (I am not sure how to handle him getting mail, any tools, etc) should i ask him to call first? or maybe just text a note? then I can make a point to not be here.

I think he is out of here in a few days, he has not confirmed the exact day, but I have been very pleasant when he gets home, and offer him dinner, even though I don't sit at table with him. I don't talk to him about his/my day, but if he starts any talk, I will respond like we used to talk.

should I be making myself scarce until he leaves?

 

we have started discussing who gets house, but after a few mins of discussion, we both seem to get teary and stop or change subject.

[Ladyjane14]

I am not sure how to handle stating that I am 'waiting' though. I think I am going to leave that out, maybe just mention a few memories, tell him I wish he could have had it in his heart to actually make an effort at reconnecting, but he needs to do what he needs to do at this point.

 

That sounds like a good plan. Although I wouldn't give him my permission to "do what he needs to do". Don't sign off on bad behavior.

 

(I am not sure how to handle him getting mail, any tools, etc) should i ask him to call first? or maybe just text a note? then I can make a point to not be here.

 

Have him use the email account. (That said, if it was me... he'd be making arrangements through my lawyer. )

Anyway, if you have him use an email, let him know in advance that you're not going to respond to ANY discussion outside of necessary details. If he encroaches, block the email too and make him using snail-mail. If he still encroaches, route him through a third party to clean up any emotionalism before it reaches you. You're not responding to his ENs (emotional needs) anymore, not even his need to unburden his thoughts on you.

 

we have started discussing who gets house, but after a few mins of discussion, we both seem to get teary and stop or change subject.

 

Do NOT engage in any kind of "divorce talk" with him. That's what attorney's are for. And you ought to make sure that YOU get the house if at all possible. The more misery REALITY creates for him and OW... the quicker the affair will break down. The reality for a WH is this... sometimes the wife gets the house.

 

Look at it this way too. You have no guarantee that you will EVER reconcile with your husband, and alot of reasons to believe you won't. Make sure you take your fair share. You might have to sustain yourself financially for a long, long time.

 

If you haven't engaged legal yet... best to do it as soon as possible.

[Scrivdog]

You're doing well to be pleasant and upbeat at home. But, like LJ said, don't engage in emotional talk with him.

 

And yes, make yourself scarce. He wants to discuss his day, let him do it with the OW.

 

I'm saying all this while under the assumption that your marriage was pretty solid before this. In other words, you were a loving, caring wife that was a pleasure to come home to.

 

If the problems in your marriage stemmed from leaving your husband to fend for himself physically and emotionally, then all of this may do harm, not good.

 

Am I correct in this assumption?

[scubafish]

scriv,

yes, we had a great, if maybe dull at times, relationship. we both are very involved and dedicated to work though, and we forgot to have fun with each other lately.

he has commented through all of this how patient, and wonderful I have been. as well as how lucky he has been to have me in his life all these years, and how I have helped him get where he is. it has all been plusses. He has listed all the negatives about her to me as well, many of them are ones I wouldn't even consider accepting in a guy.

 

 

I guess that is what makes this harder for me.

[Scrivdog]

I'd take anything he says right now with a grain of salt. He's trying to minimize his feelings of guilt. Just stop talking to him about the relationship. Don't let him give you any "hope" either. Just shrug.

 

In the meantime, you're probably going to drop some weight because of all this. Start working out at the gym. When he shows up at the house, be in your gym outfit and leave.

 

scriv,

yes, we had a great, if maybe dull at times, relationship. we both are very involved and dedicated to work though, and we forgot to have fun with each other lately.

he has commented through all of this how patient, and wonderful I have been. as well as how lucky he has been to have me in his life all these years, and how I have helped him get where he is. it has all been plusses. He has listed all the negatives about her to me as well, many of them are ones I wouldn't even consider accepting in a guy.

 

 

I guess that is what makes this harder for me.