scubafish Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 my question is- does anyone here have experience with following their emotions that go against logic? Does logic eventually prevail? This is a long story, but it felt good to write it out- after months of back and forth with my husband over his o/w, and finally telling him I was ready to quit, he told me he had broken with her, and was ready to work on our relationhip. This was early December. December is a very tough month to really work on 'us', with all the Holiday and family stuff going on. We do not have kids, but we were still busy playing Santa for other family members and kids. (and he did buy a present for her kid!) January rolls around and here I am looking fwd to being on track again, but all of a sudden, he decides he can't fully commit to me now, and emotionally/physically withdraws. I find out he has been talking to her (but has not slept with her-yet, but I am sure that will happen shortly). I know this because I was snooping. When he made his choice, we both knew that the feelings would not come back immediately, and that we would have to do some work. At that time he even admitted he would be open to counseling if we needed it. Now, (6 weeks later) he has done complete 180. He says he needs to go with his emotions, and do what he feels right now. Not to go with what his logic/brain tells him is the right thing. this might be fine if we were younger, but he is 45, and there is a lot more at stake. Here is the logic- We have been together 18 years, and have built a very comfortable life. We both have good incomes, and we have always been good with each other, no fighting, no drama, hobbies that we enjoy together, the 'right' formula. We bought a beautiful older house that needed remodeling, and had been working on our 'dream' house, when this affair started. Obviously, there was a void though, (hindsight is 20/20). on her side, (I know this is going to sound a little bitter about her, but it is reality) she is just a few years younger than me. She has a job that pays a little more than minimum wage. Her work history is not great, the previous jobs I know about, she held each for about 8 months. with a few months of unemployment between. She has 2 kids, with separate guys. One is a deadbeat, no help, but is still around, the other does help his child a bit. She lives in a 2 bedroom apartment with both kids. I know my hubby has spent alot of money on her over the months, and she is very needy. She has been living with another guy for 3 months now, even though at the beginning, she claimed it was just because she couldn't afford rent. This is the same guy though, that she was 'hanging' out with when my guy couldn't see her. I don't know how he could have believed she wasn't banging him too. (that was mean!) My husband met her at work, and all his friends and family told him she is just looking for a meal ticket. Of course he defends her. He has always maintained that he still loves me, but he is not sure he can get that 100% love feeling back. which I just do not understand. I think if you still have love for someone, you can always build a fire under it. He has never been verbally mean to me through this, and yes I know, an affair in itself is mean. but he has always held out hope for us. He agrees that our future includes a good, comfortable life, but if there is no deep love, what good is it. I understand his fear, but expecting to fail, dooms you at the start. the emotional- now for some reason, he has decided that he needs to just go with his 'heart'. SHe makes him feel good, and all the other problems don't matter. This has always been her argumemt for trying to get him to leave me, so I know why he is saying it. I know some of his worries are about money being short, he will be supporting her kids, and her lack of career motivation bothers him. I told him fine, if he feels that way, we can separate things. but since I work out of the house, he has to move out until we finalize everything, and I don't want to talk or see him. he agreed, but asked for a little bit of time to find a place. That was very hard for me to do, but after reading thorugh LS posts for a few weeks, I realize this is best. I guess I am not ready to quite let go, this is still a new change. I was so excited to put all the new things I had been reading about fixing a relationship into action, now nada. From what I have been snooping on his texts, he has not even told her about what is going on here. I have been considering calling the guy she is with, and telling him she is talking/seeing my guy again, and that she is using his phone to send text! but don't feel right doing that. so, any comments on the chances here? if you took the time to read all this, I'm impressed!
Ladyjane14 Posted January 27, 2007 Posted January 27, 2007 To begin with... I'm having my doubts about whether this affair has been consummated or not. Your husband seems pretty clear in his intention to be with this OW when he leaves. Honestly, it puts some doubts in my mind. Anyway, this guy seems to be a fairly common example of midlife crisis. Personally, I think there are some chemical changes that occur within a man's body at this stage of life that have a HUGE effect on his ability to think rationally. He's responding to the 'damsel in distress' routine like gangbusters too. That ought to tell you right off that he's out ego-building and not feeling good about himself. You seem to have done a pretty good 'Plan A' over the past few months... (see Marriagebuilders), so if he goes through with his plan to leave, I'm inclined to think it's time to pull out your 'Plan B' (which will involve NO CONTACT). Your 'Plan B' needs to be dark as a cave, and your best bet is to have it arranged beforehand so the contrast between Scubafish IN his life and Scubafish OUT of his life is rather harsh. In the meantime, 'Plan A' away. (And don't let the OW call you with sob stories anymore either. She is your enemy. She's out to ruin your husband's life. He's not going to be happy without you... and she's participating in that due to her own agenda. ) Honey it's scary, but sometimes you have to be willing to END a marriage in order to save it. It sounds weird, I know. But the choices arrayed before your WS must be clearly defined. He needs to understand that he can't keep YOU ... in any capacity, and still have the OW. That's clarity. "I'm not going to be your buddy ever again. If you do this thing, you're on your own."
Author scubafish Posted January 28, 2007 Author Posted January 28, 2007 yes, I wish I had found that marriagebuilders site a long time ago. His view of plan B is pretty bleak though. The website makes it sound like once you reach that point, it is pretty much over for some reason. I have told him on more than one occassion, if he leaves, I am not going to be his ''friend'. he will be dead to me, and I never want to hear from him again. What do you mean when you ask about the affair being consumated? with her and the guy she is living with? I think the reason he is sure she will leave that guy, is because she seems to think my guy is her 'soulmate' and the only one she is really meant to be with. (so she told a friend) but she needed someone to take care of her for now, so she had to move on while waiting. I can't win against that. When I told him he needed to move out, I made a comment about how I'm sure she would love to have him move in now. He said that it wouldn't be happening, she was with someone else right now, that he was going to have to get an apt. I almost want him to move in with her right away though. so he can start seeing what life with her is really like. If he moves into apt, he now becomes the OM in her life, until we split everything. That still leaves him in this fantasy land, of only seeing her occassionally. I want him in reality right now! I just don't understand how he can respect or want a woman who would do that.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 28, 2007 Posted January 28, 2007 yes, I wish I had found that marriagebuilders site a long time ago. His view of plan B is pretty bleak though. The website makes it sound like once you reach that point, it is pretty much over for some reason. Yes, you're right. Plan B is a last-ditch effort to awaken a WS to the loss of his marriage. But more importantly... Plan B is for YOU. It takes you out of the chaos, and allows you to end the daily hurt of being part of the triangle. I have told him on more than one occassion, if he leaves, I am not going to be his ''friend'. he will be dead to me, and I never want to hear from him again. I think this is wise. It clarifies his choices. But don't forget... Plan B makes those choices REAL for him. The change is visceral evidence that you meant what you said. What do you mean when you ask about the affair being consumated? with her and the guy she is living with? Nope. I think she's probably "consummating" with your husband. Men don't usually leave a long-standing marriage for an EA unless there are SIGNIFICANT problems in the marriage. Their emotional connection to a woman is strengthened by sexual contact, so much so that sometimes they are willing to throw away their entire lifestyle because of the "in love" feelings this sexual connection will arouse in them. All in all, I think you're probably looking at a PA.
Author scubafish Posted January 28, 2007 Author Posted January 28, 2007 ladyjane, yes, I am sorry for not being clear. He did have a real affair with this woman. he has been back and forth about leaving me for her for a while, he really got to have his cake and eat it too for a while. I wish I had found this site back then. anyway, I had found some of the sites by early dec, and that is when I said leave her or leave the house. he sat down and committed to being here and working on our relationship. and he did pretty well, really paying attention to me, and we started making plans again, etc. Then we had the big deal about him buying that gift for her kid, and he did talk to her after that. I told him it was not acceptable, and he agreed, but said it wasn't a big deal to talk to her. then, 6 weeks later, he starts getting moody and now we are at this point. part of me thinks he is going through that withdrawal thing, but if he does not want to work with me through it, I can't do anything else. 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink' he left today to go look for someplace to stay. I subtly asked him why he didn't go live with her, and he said because she is living with someone else. I made the comment that she would kick that guy out in a moment if she knew he was free, and he just shrugged. I have never hurt this much before:(
Author scubafish Posted January 28, 2007 Author Posted January 28, 2007 ps, our relationship was never physical while he was with her, when it was so back and forth. he did not get that part of the cake. as far as I can tell from snooping, he has not slept with her since early December either.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 When people insist on having what they want, it's usually best to give it to them. That way they get everything they want and everything they deserve all in one neat little package. When Romeo started his affair, he could not be convinced that being over at a divorced womans house all the time was wrong. That buying them gifts was strange. She's just a friend, blah blah, blah. I talked to him and I talked to him to no avail. Mr. Stubborn had to learn the hard way. I gave him to the OW and started a nice brand new life of my own without him. Sure I punched alot of pillows and screamed my head off when he was gone, but it was almost biblical when he came home everytime, preaching that he always loved me, that all I had to do was tell him I wanted him and needed him. Follow the NC rules in your other thread and you will be just fine either way, unless of course you are willing to share him with this twenty something little co-worker. You must show him that it doesnt work both ways. Grow a backbone and enforce NC. You dont have to show him that you have respect for him. You have to show him you have respect for yourself. Peace
Ladyjane14 Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 When people insist on having what they want, it's usually best to give it to them. That way they get everything they want and everything they deserve all in one neat little package. When Romeo started his affair, he could not be convinced that being over at a divorced womans house all the time was wrong. That buying them gifts was strange. She's just a friend, blah blah, blah. I talked to him and I talked to him to no avail. Mr. Stubborn had to learn the hard way. I gave him to the OW and started a nice brand new life of my own without him. Sure I punched alot of pillows and screamed my head off when he was gone, but it was almost biblical when he came home everytime, preaching that he always loved me, that all I had to do was tell him I wanted him and needed him. Follow the NC rules in your other thread and you will be just fine either way, unless of course you are willing to share him with this twenty something little co-worker. You must show him that it doesnt work both ways. Grow a backbone and enforce NC. You dont have to show him that you have respect for him. You have to show him you have respect for yourself. Peace Cool post. Sometimes 'opening the cage door' goes a long way toward showing a little birdie that it's a cold, cruel world out there.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 LJ, In 2004, I had a very confused, angry man telling me that his OW was wonderful and that old famous "ILYBINILWY" speech. He talked to me as though his OW were standing right next to him. I did not say one word. I didnt fight, argue or cry. I simply gathered what was left of my pride off the floor and walked out the door. Alone. I did the 180 (turned my back on him the same as he had done to me) and he came back to me. In 2007, I have this same man at my feet and he is planning on buying me a new SUV in the next couple of weeks, and we're totally sticking together. We're making plans and moving on together. I guess Mz. Wonderful wasn't so wonderful after all.
LakesideDream Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Scuba, you know what has to be done. Until all contact ceases between your husband and his OW, it's no contact between you and him. If you want to continue your marriage and your comfortable lifestyle it all out war. Unless of course that comfort is worth lowering yourself to the same reletive status as the OW.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 30, 2007 Posted January 30, 2007 Unless of course that comfort is worth lowering yourself to the same reletive status as the OW. Bear in mind that the status quo the OW must achieve is almost impossible to maintain. The EMR is based on rivalry to a large degree. She's stuck in a postion where she's called upon to not only meet the ENs that you were fulfilling for him... but to improve upon them and keep it that way. "If you (the wife) be THAT... then I (the mistress) must be THIS". Any complaint that he might have had about you, is now hers to address. So, if he told her you were a bitch and you never 'put out', she can never be a bitch and must ALWAYS 'put out'. Tough job. I wouldn't want it. Only 1-3% of affairs result in long-term relationships. One of the reasons for that is because over the course of time, the OW/OM can't keep the fantasy elements of the relationship alive. Reality intrudes. In the beginning, the OW only had to be more exciting than the known entity... YOU. But now, as distance makes his heart grow fonder, she has to work harder. What's worse, when it's not only you to compete against... she competes for his attention with EVERY woman he thinks he's man enough to get. And dude... he's a free man again, so he's bound to look. Meanwhile back at the ranch, we tend to remember the good things about a person. Yeah, to some degree out of sight is out of mind... but there are always little reminders. Maybe he'll miss your spaghetti sauce and find hers lacking, or he'll hear a song on the radio that reminds him of you and better days. After awhile, it ends up being YOU that sets the bar for other women. And as time goes by and he experiences nostalgia in his memories, the bar gets higher. For her part, she's enslaved by the same behaviors that enticed him to join her in a relationship. So, if she's not giving him what he wants whenever he wants it... she's not living up to the promise their relationship is based on. That means sex on demand and whatever kind he wants, so she better not have been bullsh*tting him about how much she LOVES blowjobs. She can't b*tch, nag, or complain. Her kids can't drive him crazy, talk back, or lose his tools. Etc. etc. etc. I know you've seen threads in the OM/OW forum, but look at them again and see how some of these girls are turning themselves inside out trying to please a MM. Can you imagine trying to sustain that energy over the course of YEARS? Hell, I just saw a thread in there last night where this OW is worried about telling the MM she doesn't want to hear the details about sex with his wife. She's afraid it might negatively affect his ability to tell her "anything". Imagine how that's going to be later on down the pike... when he's able to communicate his thoughts on any subject, but she has to limit hers to what she believes he's comfortable hearing. Anyway, odds are... your husband's affair WILL end. That said, you might not care about him anymore by the time it happens. Oftentimes, the betrayed spouse has already moved on and could give a rat's patootie less.
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