Dances with Wolves - The care and feeding of a WS/FWS anger

[Ripples]

THE BOOMERANG RELATIONSHIP

<snip>

 

That's Graham. Oh bloody hell.

[Romeo Must Die]

How is it you are responsible or are to blame for him cheating?

 

I mean for our disagreements and issues within the marriage. Of course he takes 100 percent responsibility for his affair.

 

[Romeo Must Die]

Rip, What I basicly I did was give myself a new rule: I did not allow myself to express any anger for any reason whatsoever. No yelling, no threats, no sacrasm, no annoyance, no frustration. No rolling of eyes, or avoiding him or banging pots and pans. No expression of anger whatsoever.

 

At times, I played music in my head. I pretended I was an actress playing a role. Other times, I prayed to the Virgin Mary. I did this through sheer force of will. I also did a lot of hard exercise and meditation and praying to deal with the stress level.

 

My goal was to do it for a month. I wasn't perfect for the first week, but I got much better at it. The second week I was pretty close to perfect. The third week he pushed me pretty hard with several broken promises, but it had now become a real personal goal for me to succeed and I did. The fourth week, he started changing.

 

 

What would you do

To get to me

What would you say

To have your way

Would you give up

Or try again

If I hesitate

To let you win

Or would you be yourself

Or play your role

Tell all the boys

Or keep it low

If I say no

Would you turn away

Or play me off

Or would you stay

 

If at first you don't succeed

Dust yourself off and try it again

You can dust it off and try it again

 

~ Aaliyah Try Again ~

 

[michelangelo]

Laptops for everyone!

 

Keeps the peace when two people want to use the same resource.

 

Yes, a guy may want to decompress after working and yes a woman may want to surf the internet while he is mulling over things as he stares at the TV.

 

She could have decided to not surf the internet just then. He could have decided to let her use it even if he might have been about to use the PC himself even as he watched tv.

 

Could buy a second PC so nobody has to be deprived.

 

BTW, I realize the main question line is not about who gets to use the laptop. read these suggestions in that spirit too.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm reading conflict avoidance and poor communications.

 

There's no reason NOT to believe that there were legitimate problems in the marriage previous to the infidelity.... or to believe that the betrayed spouse had no hand in them. Not that I'm blaming the wife for H2T's conscious decision to cheat. But we can't pin ALL the pre-affair issues exclusively on him either.

 

LJ

 

I am seeing both PA and poor communication (caused by the PA). And I should know, my H was/is PA but is working on it diligently.

 

I don't think RMD or even myself are trying to pin ALL the pre-affair issues exclusively on him either. Just like the OW always claim that the BW is blaming them for the entire A, its not true. We are blaming him for his part. That to date, he has claimed he was da*mn near perfect. "While she was working I kept the kids 2/3rds of the time", "I cooked", "I cleaned", blah blah blah. Not once are we given any indication that he, H2T has any shortcomings in his M. Its always "but she.....", "But she.....".

 

So I think RMD is on to something whether or not she is completely right, she is definitely on to something.

 

He has his part and he is not owning it. He owns the A, obviously only because he got busted. Had OW not come to his home, BW would never have known. He wants his W to own all of the problems pre-A, but she doesn't. Some are his and some are hers. Whether its a 50/50 spread is irrelevant. He wants his W to change, but is making no effort to change himself beyond agreeing to stay M to her. Where is the compromise? Is he a prize?

 

Yet, I agree, LJ, with your comments on the male brain. But that leads me to this. Because men take so long to get to emotional processing, once they get there - they stay there for awhile. I don't believe for one second that H2T doesn't sulk and mope around the house with his mind littered with the negative feelings he expresses here about his W. The rollercoaster they are on is precisely because she can sense his wavering.

 

LJ, I think you are right on about many things in your posts, but I don't think that H2T is getting it. I think RMD is right on about many things in her posts, but I don't think that H2T is getting it. But he listens to you because right now you are his *supplier* of good feelings and encouragement. You and Mz.Pixie, and sometimes JamesM. Anything critical of him is ignored. I won't go so far as to call H2T a narcissist (sp?), but he is definitely displaying several traits.

 

The constant validation of his hatred and resentment towards his W is the problem with most of the responses that he values. Stop feeding his resentment of her, ALL of the problems aren't hers either. I know she isn't here to tell her side, but all of us that have been cheated on know that the WS slants things in their favor to gain sympathy.

[Hard2Think]

I guess I have to realize that there is no way for me to escape the

preconceived notions people have about me. I've taken alot of beatings here and I've owned and taken in everything that makes any sense. But you have to realize that when you try to attribute things to me that I never said, it's hard for me to take it very seriously.

 

I'm concerned that new BS's or WS's will come here and get the wrong idea about what goes on in the mind of a WS. I'm trying to do my best to convey the experience the best I can.

 

But the misinformation here is as bad as a political campaign.

 

Let me give you some examples from RMD ..

 

LJ less than five months ago he HATED his BW with a passion and I believe that he still does.

 

I was pretty angry at her a few times for things I felt she had done to me. But this is false. It's crazy, even.

 

You most certianly are/were an abusive prick.

There is not a single thing that could lead anyone to think that. That just a gratuitous accusation. I may be alot of things, but even my wife would certainly not think I'm abusive.

 

Couldnt get through dinner without her wanting to stab you with the dessert fork.

 

Now where could she possibly have gotten this from?

 

Of course she gathered somehow from my posts that my kids were mine from a previous marriage, thet my wife works 2 jobs, and God knows what else ..

 

This is either deliberate bashing in bad faith or simply the result of poor reading comprehension. Either way, you can see why I take this with a grain of salt.

 

Now from NId ..

 

He wants his W to change, but is making no effort to change himself beyond agreeing to stay M to her. Where is the compromise? Is he a prize?

 

What compromise is being asked of me? What am I supposed to do? What is being asked of me? Do you know? If so, then you are a genius - because I sure don't know!

 

And that piece on PA behavior is fascinating, but it's not me. That's just not my issue. I mean I don't act angrily towards my wife in everyday situations. It not the way I operate. That's not to say that things didn't happen that made me angry and I didn't just suppress it. But the following is ridiculous:

 

I don't believe for one second that H2T doesn't sulk and mope around the house with his mind littered with the negative feelings he expresses here about his W. The rollercoaster they are on is precisely because she can sense his wavering.

 

Where she get this idea? This just something pulled from thin air.

 

While she was working I kept the kids 2/3rds of the time", "I cooked", "I cleaned", blah blah blah. Not once are we given any indication that he, H2T has any shortcomings in his M.

 

Is she saying I didn't do these things? And when did I say I had no shortcomings? I said before and I'll say again .. I asked my wife MANY times to tell me what I was doing wrong and what I could do to improve things. She rarely gave me anything actionable - because she really wasn't unhappy in the marriage. I think it was working for her. If there had been something that she wanted me to change - she could have told me many times. After all - I was there with open ears after having asked her! So it's very unfair to lay that on me I think.

 

And I'm not here to feel good. This is the last place I'd go for that. I've told you everything as I see it and as I experience it. I've told you everything I've said to her and everything that she's said to me. I've admitted to the stupid stuff I did and I told you what I feel as I feel it.

 

Hey, I'm just a guy on a message board. I have no fear of what you may think of me. None of you even know my real name. It would be a monumental waste of time for me to lie and then get useless advice.

 

I think that a few of you women here are using my as an effigy for your own WS. I'm sorry that I don't conveniently fit into your pet psychological profile of the day, but in spite of that I may be of help to you in deciphering what may really be going on in the head of your WS.

[Ladyjane14]

First off... I think this thread would be a bit more generically informative if we didn't fixate quite so much on just the one example H2T has presented us with on another thread. (I kind of feel like we're talking about him rather than with him )

 

But before I leave that topic... I do believe there is merit in his testimony about the issues in his marriage both before and after the affair. This is best witnessed by his wife's refusal to seek counseling, which would be ENORMOUSLY beneficial to whatever chance of reconcilliation they might have.

 

'Yes'.... H2T has been slow in naming himself as a problem in the pre-affair marriage dynamic, but 'no'.... I don't think he's a hopeless narcissist, destined for a life of solitude and misery. He's stayed in this thing for roughly six months now, and pledges to continue on. I see hope there. His approach isn't perfect yet, but he's kept this thing floating for a pretty good while now.

 

I agree with you NID on just about every point. I can't agree that we're feeding his resentment for his wife... but certainly we're doing our best to encourage him in his efforts. And 'yes', we do offer him occasional sympathy. What he's attempting is difficult. And I don't understand the point of withholding encouragement or sympathy from him. If his wife could see what a POWERFUL tool sympathy is... they'd be halfway through recovery now.

Sympathy/empathy for one another puts a couple on the SAME team. It overcomes adversarial behavior.

 

In a way... we at LS are on the "H2T Recovery Team". What we're hoping to accomplish is to put enough tools and ideas into his hands that he can resolve his current problems.

 

 

Anyway... while I certainly recognize the correlation between passive aggressive behavior and conflict avoidance, I think there's an underlying quality of premeditation in the type of PA behavior described in the article above. And I just don't believe that ALL conflict avoiders fit into that catagory.

 

Obviously, the author of the article has credentials.... but even though she stresses that the anxiety which precipitates conflict avoidance shouldn't be ramped up, I have to wonder if some of her methods wouldn't do just that. I found some of her suggestions to be great advice, but in other instances, it was almost as if she were putting the wife into the 'mommy' role... an authoritarian, enforcing good behavior. Quite frankly, I've learned to NEVER paint that particular bullseye on my forehead.

This is something which is wholly different from setting and enforcing one's own personal boundaries.

 

Bottom line... I think alot of these guys have just GIVEN UP. Simple as that. They've talked and talked, and haven't gotten anywhere. We've seen MANY clear examples of women withholding affection and attention, sometimes soooo mired in their own thought-process that NOTHING we say to them can get through. I've seen quite a few women lately who admit they feel nearly nothing for their husbands. And yet... we're going to assume that a man living with that kind of woman can't just give up and allow his doubts and anxieties to overrule his good sense.

 

There's NO EXCUSE good enough for cheating, true enough. But... when a BS chooses reconcilliation, s/he MUST also choose to be proactive in getting it accomplished. We can't tell a FWS we want to stay together and then REFUSE to look at what we, ourselves, brought to the table which might have contributed to the pre-affair dynamic.

 

So, while I believe that a WS might have his head twisted on wrong during the affair, that doesn't mean changes don't have to be made across the board. It does no good to accept a FWS back... if we aren't willing to address those issues. The reconstruction of the marriage will certainly fail under those conditions because NOTHING in the pre-affair dynamic has substantially changed. If it is anger and resentment which were causal in the decision to cheat... these things MUST be resolved.

[NoIDidn't]

Hey, I'm just a guy on a message board. I have no fear of what you may think of me. None of you even know my real name. It would be a monumental waste of time for me to lie and then get useless advice.

 

I think that a few of you women here are using my as an effigy for your own WS. I'm sorry that I don't conveniently fit into your pet psychological profile of the day, but in spite of that I may be of help to you in deciphering what may really be going on in the head of your WS.

 

H2T

 

Seriously, you are taking what is being said to you and about you too far. I stated what I feel about your posts. Pulled nothing out of thin air. Its the feel I get from your posts. Nothing more, nothing less. I can only comment on what I sense in your posts. If I am off, fine. I am not a psychic and never claimed to be.

 

Hey, I'm just a lady on the internet. I have no fear of what you say or think of me either. I didn't post anything hostile. We are all strangers over the internet. These things go both ways. But, for the record, I AM a genius. A dumb one, anyways. My IQ is just 135.

 

Yet, I think you are assuming a lot about your W and her satisfaction with your M. Just because she never says a word about what you could do better for her, doesn't mean she doesn't have her own set of grievances. My H hardly ever complained about me and our M, I told him I was bored to tears two years ago and he said he was just peachy. Then he cheats on me and has this list of things that he wasn't happy with. And, like you, I DID ask. Repeatedly. So I was shocked to find out that he was just as unhappy as I was.

 

And I was unhappy. I gave the M two more years from that boredom conversation to see if anything changed, or I would make my move.

 

LJ,

I wasn't saying to withhold sympathy at all. Simply saying that to a point, it can be overdone. Just like H2T points out that we don't know him personally, I vouch for no one here knowing his W. The women here who have said that they feel nothing for their H's are talking about themselves. We don't have any concrete proof of the feelings that his W does or doesn't have for him. He uses this place to vent, so we get the negative. He doesn't report back that she made his favorite dinner or that they had an amazing date.

 

 

Look, H2T may not be either of the things mentioned in this thread. I do recall myself saying that I am not calling him anything, just stating that he does have, IMO, some of the traits.

 

Its very frustrating to hear how bad his W is to him (His opinion). Its very frustrating to offer to let him in on what she may be feeling from one that is in her shoes and be ignored because you can empathize with her moreso than him. I don't know what he is dealing with at home. It could very well be that H2T passes on the same frustration that he feels at home. It could very well be that his W stopped loving him a long time ago and is holding on to her M for dear life. Who really knows?

 

All I can see is a stranger on the internet who seems hell-bent on changing a person he has no control over, his W. When the therapist told him that he couldn't change her, he seemingly took it to mean that things will always stay the same (pessimistic view). I took it to mean that he is wasting his time focusing on changing her and should look to himself for change. So much of the advice given to him appears to focus on what she does or doesn't do, who she is or isn't as a person. She's not here. Help him effect change in and for himself.

 

A recovered M is the goal. But two healthy individuals is where we need to start. We only have one here, though.

[NoIDidn't]

When I found out about my H's A, I read tons of books and ebooks. The ones that helped me most were the ones that showed me that if I changed my behavior, I could effect change in ALL of my Rs.

 

Divorce Busting was a good book for this. As were the many ebooks that kept up with the theme. And they all stated that ONE PERSON can, in fact, save their M without the other spouse's help. If there is life left in it, it can be salvaged.

 

I know most folks don't agree with the above, with it taking two to tango and all. But when I was learning said tango, I did practice by myself sometimes.

[Romeo Must Die]

H2T why dont you spend more time working on your hellish marriage and get off my ass? Really. If this is just a small part of what BW has to put up with (besides your multiple affairs) then why am I not suprised she cant stand you. The turn around game and the downplaying do not work with me. I have no empathy for you, just for your BW. Why she would want a WS like you to stick around I have no clue.

 

I may have paraphrased. I may have gotten a little off with the information about her work from surmising she had two jobs, but even if a little information was lost in the hundreds of posts this crap has generated, your aim is to deny everything. Of course its not your fault. We understand your need to be blameless. Id want to be annonymous too if I were you. At least I, Romeo Must Die, am not a liar and I am not a hypocrite and I am certianly not a serial cheater.

 

You want honesty. Tell her about affair number one. Tell her how you planned on dumping her for affair number two, and hurry up before BW dumps you first. Of course you dont seek out prostitutes when you could easily have a single mom like OW to manipulate and deceive and quite LITERALLY throw you life away for. Dont let me stand in your way, stud.

 

Most of your posts are about divorce and self piying bullcrap. Annonymous or not you thrive on the attention youre getting, wether its positive or negative. Its sickening. You dont speak of your love (like you did for OW) you speak of your hatred. It comes through loud and clear. Of course you looove LJ, she wrote your letter for you didnt she. All you had to do is cut and paste and sign your name to it. More honesty from you. How noble. Any monkey can cut and paste. A real FWS is remorseful and can write his own letters.

 

This loving honestly is short lived coming from the guy who takes his 9 year old son to the park and talks about how much fun it is when mommys gone while the BW is away for the weekend. I thought she was an evil step mother the way you made it sound. How would she feel if she knew you tried to turn her own child against her? What kind of FWS does sh*it like that. "What a relief it is that she is gone" you said. Bite me. You filthy swine.

 

[lover's rock]

First of all, it seems as if no one is listening and everyone it taking things extremely personally. Before this gets out of hand, take a step back and go back to the anonymous place we all come from. When we post our situation on a forum, sure everyone is entitled to their own opinion...but no one is able to see 360 degrees inside a another person's relationship. So get off it! H2T said it's not like that...who are you to say it is? No one is fooling anyone...we've all been through the bull****. Now stop tripping!!

[Romeo Must Die]

As for you, "Romeo Must Die". I take it your moniker is a death threat to your husband. Wonderful. You have serious emotional and probably mental issues. For you to say that your husband transferred his anger to your head causing you to be angry for both of you is insane talk. You really need a tinfoil hat. You consistently put your words in H2T's mouth and I'm pretty damn sure you do the same to your husband. You're angry, unstable, and hysterical. You've got plenty of issues to deal with on your own, so don't you go preaching at this guy or anyone else you tattoed, back-fat flapping nutcase.

 

LOL Got some anger issues of your own, zathrus? Thats okay get the angries out on me, I can take it, as well as dish it out. Maybe you just hate women. Maybe you just want to get revenge on every woman for all the wrongs you have been dealt in your divorce. Maybe you arent getting enough sex. Maybe you just hate Starbucks. I dunno.

 

Romeo Must Die is a title of a movie. Maybe I am just a big Aaliyah fan. Now who is making falthhh thhhh thhhh athhhumptions here, Sylvester. If you read all my posts like you said you did you would know that. You baaaad ole' puddy tat.

 

I dont talk badly about anything about my husband. He is a great guy. I love him to bits and vice versa. We had some problems along the way, just like everybody else (not claiming I dont, I freely share this with all) actually we get along rather well. We worked really really hard to get to this point. I am not looking into dumping him like H2T. I dont have to fake my feelings like H2T. I dont try to turn his kids against him like H2T. I dont lie to him and I dont cheat on him like H2T.

 

I help alot of people of all walks of life on this board so if Hard2Think is catching feelings about me, that says alot about him. He's weak. I must have touched a nerve with you to have sought me out. I can see by your posts you are quite nasty and judgemental. I like that. It turns me on.

 

LJ and I get along quite well (Hi LJ!!!) and she has sought me out on occasion to assist others going through problems. I have a healthy respect for her opinion. In this case, we just agree to disagree. H2T wont come between us. We know how to debate. We get along quite well. Dont confuse that. She just wants to help the poor bastard. LOL, Cant blame her for trying. H2T creates alot of controversy on this board (suspect) and comes between alot of people here. I am not the only one who thinks he is full of sh*it. Knew that about him from day one.

 

Anyway, here is some more about me. My husbands affair was his way of coping with losing or son in an auto accident and it got completely out of hand. We have alot of love and respect for each other. Unconditional Love. It cannot be touched. There is nothing even you can say or do that can touch that. In fact, I think youre a little jealous. His best friends always say they wish they could find someone like me and have what we have. I take that as a compliment.

 

I dont have an ounce of back fat or otherwise. I am lean and beautiful and smart. Your worst nightmare. My tattoo is something we are doing together as a couple and my new tat is symbolic and unique only to me and IDGAF what anybody thinks about it.

 

[veronese]

What that means essentially is that a man literally CANNOT process emotional information as fast as we do. He needs time to absorb the data before drawing a conclusion. And I think, more often than not, we don't give him the time to do it. Worse, he doesn't realize himself that he NEEDS to take more time.

 

And the fact that he's probably not even listening doesn't help either!

 

 

His initial response to emotional stimuli is very basic, and I think the best examples of a guy needing time is when he's confronted with frustration. His first line of emotional response is most likely to be anger. He's not sure what's being asked of him yet... but whatever it is, he's pretty sure it's not going to be pleasant.

 

I love that last bit LJ!

 

veronese

[Lacy-May]

This is is great. Unfortunately there are no other men that post in this section here besides H2T, so this guy has to listen to some batsh*t insane crap. I feel I better step in and defend this guy for once.

 

Let's put all the pychobabble aside for a second and put this in nice, clear language. Here it is: Ignore your spouse's needs at your peril.

 

Don't give me any of that garbage about "communication" either. Just reading some your crap here is mindboggling. Here's a clue: If your spouse is telling you that he/she feels neglected, undersexed, and taken for granted, then your spouse has communicated to you. H2T did just that. And don't go telling me he's lying about that. It's an all too common theme. She ignored him. Period.

 

Here's another clue, if your spouse has to tell you a second time, then you are officially on notice. After the third time, the countdown begins. Everything and anything else is Redbook bullcrap.

 

As for you, "Romeo Must Die". I take it your moniker is a death threat to your husband. Wonderful. You have serious emotional and probably mental issues. For you to say that your husband transferred his anger to your head causing you to be angry for both of you is insane talk. You really need a tinfoil hat. You consistently put your words in H2T's mouth and I'm pretty damn sure you do the same to your husband. You're angry, unstable, and hysterical. You've got plenty of issues to deal with on your own, so don't you go preaching at this guy or anyone else you tattoed, back-fat flapping nutcase.

 

LadyJane is nice enough, but again takes 9 pages of Dr. Philismsn only a woman could relate to instead of just saying what can be said in one sentence. If you let your spouse start every day off wanting for what you can, and should provide, someone else will gladly take your place. It happens ALL THE TIME, and usually for that very same reason.

 

Women are no different. Some have husbands that ignore them, abuse them, belittle them, and treat them like a maid. The minute some nice guy opens the door for them at Walmart, they're in love. It's perfectly understandable. If the wife told him how she feels and he did nothing, then he had it coming.

 

Men are the same. If their spouses ever knew what the hell it's like to spend 2 hours a day in traffic to spend 8 or more hours in a neon-lit cubicle all day, they'd be on their knees ready to suck his c*ck when he gets home. But instead they become the target for more unloading from the wife. Only to spend another night whacking off in the bathroom. Women simply make the mistake of thinking that the threat of divorce is enough to keep him in line. It's only after discovering an affair do they wax all poetic about the sanctity of their vows. This of course having spent every Wednesday bitching about their husbands to their Starbuck shrews.

 

I have been there, I have done that, and I have a divorce under my belt. I never cheated, but that's because I didn't want to deal with the BS of a mistress. I've concluded that women in America are good for only one thing, and it ain't marriage.

 

I'm staying on this board. I'll be here if for no other reason that to keep you babbling nutcases in line. I'm a witness to this crap and I'll do my best to get some others in here.

 

[COLOR=black]Oh my dear Zath. I am very new to this board, but I have come from another forum and have spent a considerable amount of time reading through all of the posts here. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][/COLOR][COLOR=black] [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]I feel so very sorry for you Zath. I have read some of your previous responses and you really are a nasty piece of work are you not? I laughed my socks off when I read your above quote about how you will be sticking around here to keep these so called "nutcases" in line. How very funny you are, you have made my day, in fact you have made my weekend. Isn't it funny that you are one person out of the hundreds of people that post on here who thinks that everyone ELSE is the nutcase. If I were you I would be looking a little bit closer to home if I were you. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]From what I have read, I don't think that anybody on here would deny to either having had or are at present having a few life problems. Any normal functional human being gets shovelled their own piece of crap during their lifetime. But not you. You are problem free. You obviously have absolutely NO life issues. You are obviously NOT so bored with your life and not so dysfunctional that you feel the need to sit at your computer chair so smugly diagnosing everyone else rather than getting some theapy and dealing with your own issues. You poor lonely man. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]I read your disgusting attack on kinger25 on H2T's "update" thread. Unfortunately it seems as though you did not have the mental capacity to actually read what the poor girl was saying before you leapt into a frenzy of character assassination. I think you secretly fancied her picture and were wishing that she would "spread her legs" for you. You dirty old dog. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]You wont be around long anyway if you continue as you are, you will be shunned and isolated by the L.S goers, although I expect that is something you are used to !! Your mental problems obviously co-incide with your need to try and provoke reaction, I find that hilarious. You may feel as though you can "dress" your posts up with pretty words and make yourself seem intelligent but you strike me as someone who has the online dictionary open next to your L.S screen so that you can look at what the words mean before you make an ass out of yourself :lmao: [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]To all the other Loveshackers out there - Hello!! Nice to meet you all. I am sorry for ambushing this thread but I had to have my 2 pennies worth! [/COLOR]

[veronese]

Hi RMD

 

Wanted to say that I have suspected the same thing about H2T right from the start and told him in no uncertain terms more than once on his original thread. I'm not sure how people can see the same thing so very differently.

 

However I think H2T gives a good insight in to the mind of the WS and I'm glad he's taken the time to share his story here. I really don't understand why he doesn't leave his wife already? I think he wants her to be the one to end it so his unblemished character remains intact in his own mind.

 

He's not being honest with her having conveniently forgotten to mention his first affair and I think that first affair is hugely significant but largely overlooked. He doesn't refer to his repeated ability to sleep with OW but I think the fact that this last OW wasn't his first OW suggests the person he portrays here is a modified version of the person he really is.

 

How can such a sweet, dutiful husband find himself having two affairs? It's odd that he was able to shag them on a regular basis while simultaneously being Husband of the Year to that ungrateful selfish wife of his?

 

I still welcome his posts though. I hope he lets us know how things eventually turn out?

 

I couldn't believe that post by Zathrus. Why do BWs get attacked and accused of being those things so often? I think it's when we hit a nerve and ruffle those feathers! And respect to you for rising above it.

 

Love veronese x

[Mz. Pixie]

Have any of you ever read "For Women Only" by Shaunti Feldman (I think she is the author)

 

It will give you a great insight into the man in your life. Only by reading this and some other information did I get how truly important sexual needs and respect are to men. It was very eye opening.

 

It's like water to them, they need it.

 

Some put respect over sexual needs it was that important.

[Hard2Think]

I really don't understand why he doesn't leave his wife already? I think he wants her to be the one to end it so his unblemished character remains intact in his own mind.

 

Sorry, but that's not true.

 

He's not being honest with her having conveniently forgotten to mention his first affair and I think that first affair is hugely significant but largely overlooked.

I did tell her. She knows. Not all the details. But yes, she knows. I did mention that in my first thread.

 

How can such a sweet, dutiful husband find himself having two affairs? It's odd that he was able to shag them on a regular basis while simultaneously being Husband of the Year to that ungrateful selfish wife of his?

Whether or not you want to believe this is the case with me. Do you think this situation could never occur with someone else?

 

I think the fact that this last OW wasn't his first OW suggests the person he portrays here is a modified version of the person he really is.

I think I was upfront with LS about this from day one.

 

I still welcome his posts though. I hope he lets us know how things eventually turn out?

I really only came back to offer some insight to DIO, who seemed to be going through almost the same thing as I did. I'll keep posting as long as this looks like it could be of help to someone else.

[Hard2Think]

I dont try to turn his kids against him like H2T.

 

RMD,

 

When did I do this? Could you please post the quote where I turn my kids against my wife?

[Romeo Must Die]

RMD and NoIDidn't;

 

Your posts reflect pretty accurately what my wife has expressed as her concerns.

 

This past weekend was rather interesting. My wife and my daughter when on a weekend long field trip with the school, so my 9 year old son and I were alone for a few days. I felt so great. So liberated. We went out and did a bunch of things together. Went on long bike rides, played soccer in the park, ate out at neighborhood pizza joints, played multiplayer video games, etc. When it was Sunday, we knew my wife was coming back .. and oddly enough, my son expressed a wish that they would stay away longer. I asked him why. He expressed that he feels a little stressed out with my wife. I know he loves her very much and she is very good to him. But she tends to bark orders and is very critical with all of us. I only saw it when she did it with me. But I was surprised to see how my son was feeling the same thing. He also expressed displeasure at the way she talks to me. He imitated her barking orders at me as well.

 

I was stunned. He's a very happy kid, always smiling and laughing. I had no idea he was stressed out by her.In the past, my daughter has said the same things to me. The stress levels in the house go way down when my wife is gone and go way up when she comes up. I just thought it was just me feeling these effects given that I take the biggest brunt of it.

 

When she got back Sunday night, we had a long discussion about this. I didn't mention what my son said - and I don't know that I will, either. But it did give me hope that if we indeed do divorce, the kids may actually no be worse off for it. They may need a safe haven to go to every so often....

 

 

So I offered that we'll stay together, but I'll put her as low on my priority list as I am on hers....

 

I'm giving it a month tops....

 

 

You start out about how great it is that mommy is gone. What a relief. What joy. How pleasant life is when she is not around. You've set the tone. That isnt reconcilliation that is bullsh*it. You should have used that time for introspection about yourself instead. You should have done something towards actually "working" on your marriage instead of just bitching about it.

 

I wonder what put that idea in his head. You can say it was simply the childs obsevations, but I think you are gagging for sympathy from anybody that will listen, even a child. Thats my opinion anyway. I dont hear where Daddy made mistakes too. Its daddys fault. Daddy did a very bad thing. Give poor mom a break already, geez. I know how you talk about your wife and marriage and it isnt pretty.

 

Wether they realize it or not, alot of divorced (or soon to be divorced people) start the dividing lines with family and friends in advance. He said, she said. Thats why you had an affair and colluded your hellish marriage with OW. Looking for sympathy. Its not my fault. Its not me. Im not to blame. I suffer so terribly...

 

The children will absorb everything like a sponge the way daddy talks about mommy, too. I'm not stupid H2T. My husband did the same thing with his OW. Youre not much different. If you would have stayed with the OW I'm sure she would have been cast as a wonderful mother. As for my husband, the kids were actually used as the excuses to go see her. To get the kids together to play. They were lied to and misused. I've seen the worst of what a spouse is truely capable of doing. The kids are no exception.

 

You took your son out for a fantasy weekend, so of course he will think youre the best. The wife of the pa man is usually the heavy, so it would appear she is the bad guy. The enemy. I'm pretty sure theyve heard you talking abot divorce and everything. They just cant properly articulate that at their young age.

 

Also you say my wife and "my" daughter. "My" son. When I talk about our children I say "we" and "ours". This is where I presumed they were not her biological children. I have already owned up to that. God you are so gay.

 

[Hard2Think]

RMD,

 

1) I've never discussed the marriage with either of my kids.

2) I never put this idea in his head - like I said, I was surprised he said it.

3) Neither my wife nor I have set up any dividing lines in the least. I'm sure we never will no matter what happens.

4) We didn't have a "dream weekend". We did perfectly normal things.

 

Other than that, you make great points!

 

God you are so gay

 

I'm not, no - not that I have anything against those who are, of course ..!

[Romeo Must Die]

deny deny deny... of course you are a stellar downplayer. Why am I not suprised nor amused.

 

PS This is passively allowing the son to feel this way in an aggressive way. He mirrors your hatred of BW. Go ask you MC about it, mkay?

 

[TribalSun]

Wow RMD, your specifics about PA really hit a nerve with me.

 

I am new on here but have been avidly reading through the posts and taking it all in.

 

Do you not think RMD that the description of the PA in your article could apply to most of the men in America / UK? How do you decifer whether your SO is or isn't PA? I mean my BF certainly posseses a few of the attributes that point towards him being PA, but doesn't everybody hold some of these traits? It must be a very fine line between assumption and diagnosis in this case. Jesus, my BF seems to have a misxture of Narcassistic Personality Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder and PA. What a cocktail

 

I just find it all bewildering and quite frankly sometimes a little bit frightening. Does there have to be a medical / psychological explanation for anything that is deemed to be "abnormal" behavior these days? I am not synical about it in the slightest, more fascinated if anything. I want to look out for the signs in my SO.

[Romeo Must Die]

Hello Tribal. Most Passive Aggressive and Narcisstic people are rarely diagnosed and/or seek help for their behavior.

 

It is usually the spouse that seeks help that the issues of the offending spouses are finally brought to light. Family problems almost always accelerate the personality disorders. We break down and become completely dysfunctional.

 

Of course everyone may be a bit passive agfressive or narcissitic, as in human nature. People make mistakes everyday, including myself. Its when others are hurt by an overt passive agressive that it comes to peoples attention that it is a terrific problem.

 

Welcome to Love Shack!

 

[Romeo Must Die]

I would have corrected him without laying a finger on his pretty head. I dont believe in spanking. Not into corporal punishment. I wouldnt allow my children to talk down about their father without encouraging them to understand that marriages have their problems, and that their father loves them very, very much. My type would have been to have rented some movies and planned a suprise dinner and reunited everyone together in peace.

 

Zath, you are La La La Looney Tunes, but I still love you baby.

 

[Romeo Must Die]

RMD,

 

1) I've never discussed the marriage with either of my kids.

2) I never put this idea in his head - like I said, I was surprised he said it.

3) Neither my wife nor I have set up any dividing lines in the least. I'm sure we never will no matter what happens.

4) We didn't have a "dream weekend". We did perfectly normal things.

 

 

1) I've never discussed the marriage with either of my kids.

 

I am a person under high stress and I may not realize I am doing it but my children hear me when I am upset and angry.

 

2) I never put this idea in his head - like I said, I was surprised he said it.

 

Children mirror everything they see.

 

3) Neither my wife nor I have set up any dividing lines in the least. I'm sure we never will no matter what happens.

 

They see their parents anger and hear them talking about divorce. If you talk about custody issues and who gets who, example, If they hear you talk on the phone to your parents that you will want full custody. They'll understand its been decided for them and thats where theyre planning on going.

 

4) We didn't have a "dream weekend". We did perfectly normal things.

 

Yeah, but the victory celebration away from mom was the perfect ticket.