Author flowergirl Posted January 23, 2007 Author Posted January 23, 2007 Everyone's so cool, thanks for all your responses. Kamille, yes this does get exhausting. Luckily my family lives in a big house, so I spend time in my room or the basement, sometimes I get on the Metro and go to Silver Spring, the next town over, to go to Borders or a movie, or to eat. When I really need help, I call my friends and I do see a therapist, as well as keep a journal on my computer. There are times when I feel that I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown, though. That's when the writing comes in handy. I think the assessment that my BF wants me to truly be happy and to assert myself is pretty astute.
D-Lish Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Well Flowergirl... I know how difficult it would be to simply pick up and move out on your own... but it really, really sounds as if that's something you need to do for yourself. The relationship you have with your mother is what many therapists might refer to as a negative enmeshment. Her need to control your every move and action... and your complacency of it. You fulfill one another's roles- but it isn't healthy. You've probably realized, and been told that the root of your issues are fueled and exacerbated by your interaction with your mother. A mother who wants to control your haircuts at the age of 31?? Functioning on your own can provide you with healthy rewards. Unfortunately, you've been taught to believe you need to be within close proximity of your family in order to be safe physically and emotionally. Un til you break free of that notion and the environment of control... you'll remain stuck. I grew up in an affluent family- but was raised to challenge common beliefs and question things if they seemed wrong. That doesn't mean I didn't act appropriately socially when needed, I did that when called for- and I still do. Afterall, there are times one needs to suck it up and put on a brave face. But it is very liberating to rise above the status quo and go against the grain sometimes. I think sometimes people confuse aggression with assertiveness. We feel that by challenging or standing up for ourselves that it is an act of aggression. Being assertive, standing up for yourself, making your needs known is actually a healthy way to live your life. I suspect that your bf simply sees you being mistreated by your mother, and wants to intervene because he loves you and doesn't want to see you get trampled on. I live 10 minutes away from my parents- and have regular contact, but don't see them more than twice a month. It's a normal part of the seperation process between parent and child. I'd be more concerned if your bf saw his mom all the time... honestly. The fact that he has a relatively healthy relationship with his mom- but they aren't intrusive in each other's life is indicative of the fact that he's a self sufficient, indepandant person. I don't put up with other people's BS either. If I see something happening that doesn't sit right- I speak up. I was in the grocery line the other day and I man yelled at the cashier and told her to shut up and hurry up... I was mortified by his behaviour and I called him on it. I wasn't just going to sit there and let it happened. Standing up for yourself and others doesn't just come naturally- like everything else in life it requires practice. You can listen and learn to what your bf has to offer- and he can listen and learn from you as well. Sure, it stands to reason that sometimes he's going to be expected to suck it up and make nice... I'm sure he does that at work sometimes when dealing with customers. If he screamed at every customer who was rude- he'd get fired! You on the other hand can learn some assertiveness skills from him. Cheers, D
sb129 Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Well Flowergirl... The fact that he has a relatively healthy relationship with his mom- but they aren't intrusive in each other's life is indicative of the fact that he's a self sufficient, indepandant person. I don't put up with other people's BS either. If I see something happening that doesn't sit right- I speak up. I was in the grocery line the other day and I man yelled at the cashier and told her to shut up and hurry up... I was mortified by his behaviour and I called him on it. I wasn't just going to sit there and let it happened. Standing up for yourself and others doesn't just come naturally- like everything else in life it requires practice. You can listen and learn to what your bf has to offer- and he can listen and learn from you as well. Sure, it stands to reason that sometimes he's going to be expected to suck it up and make nice... I'm sure he does that at work sometimes when dealing with customers. If he screamed at every customer who was rude- he'd get fired! You on the other hand can learn some assertiveness skills from him. Cheers, D I have been known to pull people up when they behave rudely in public. In fact flower if i had been at the next table in the restaurant I may well have had something to say to your mum!!! I live on the other sideof the world to my parents, but they are my friends. We do things together like go on holiday when we see eachother and we talk alot and value eachothers opinions. I agree with D. Your suffocating relationship with your mother is one of the things thats preventing you from getting out of your negative cylces of depression etc. You don't have to continue to prove stuff to HER. You should start proving stuff to YOURSELF. And to your BF.
burning 4 revenge Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 marxism capitalism libretarianism buddhism christianity judaism islam hinduism fascism (more to come later when i can think)
JCD Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Being people pleaser is not a healthy quality to have. Being able to discern when you should be nice and when not is healthy. You have to stand up for yourself when you think it is right to do so. I also think that you need to move out of your mother's house, find a place of your own and discover who you really are. You can not be living the life that other's want you to. I think your suicide attempt was a cry for help and it was very cowardly of you to do that. Instead, you should have realized that you needed to grow some backbone and grab life by its balls and make a difference in your life and not run away from it. That shows weakness. Your BF is right and he's not crazy when he doesn't spend more time with his family. Everyone needs space and being clingy to their parents always makes you act like a child which is unhealthy. So dump the parents for now and find yourself.
Author flowergirl Posted January 23, 2007 Author Posted January 23, 2007 D-Lish, I think you've hit the nail on the head concerning my relationship with my mother, especially the part about needing to be within close proximity to my family for emotional and physical safety. I feel that my mother will never fully trust me again after my 20's where I hung out with the worst kind of scum, like jailbirds, because at the time, I wanted to be away from her so badly, I picked that as my alternative. I was pretty screwed up during that period. After I moved back home, I told myself it was best for me and that she was protecting me after that period and maybe she did know what was better for me, but I think I'm coming out of that now. This is sad and scary. Also, this vicious circle is affecting my ability to carry on a healthy relationship. Actually, I don't really have much of a clue what a healthy romantic relationship looks like, because I'm sensitive to criticism, it reminds me of my mom, and I'm always on the lookout for "red flags" or "clues" that this might be a "bad" relationship. That's tiring too.
revolutionphilosophy Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 D-Lish, I think you've hit the nail on the head concerning my relationship with my mother, especially the part about needing to be within close proximity to my family for emotional and physical safety. I feel that my mother will never fully trust me again after my 20's where I hung out with the worst kind of scum, like jailbirds, because at the time, I wanted to be away from her so badly, I picked that as my alternative. I was pretty screwed up during that period. After I moved back home, I told myself it was best for me and that she was protecting me after that period and maybe she did know what was better for me, but I think I'm coming out of that now. This is sad and scary. Also, this vicious circle is affecting my ability to carry on a healthy relationship. Actually, I don't really have much of a clue what a healthy romantic relationship looks like, because I'm sensitive to criticism, it reminds me of my mom, and I'm always on the lookout for "red flags" or "clues" that this might be a "bad" relationship. That's tiring too. Hi. I'd be one of those 'worst kinds of scum.' Thanks Flower. Seriously. Though I will say I've only pulled one stint of a little over two years. Don't judge a book by its cover! Flower... unless you're completely and totally mentally unstable (which you're obviously not... your posts are way too coherent) -- then how can anyone other than you know what is best for you? No one however can fault you for going home for a little while after your breakdown... even though it may not have been the most healthy thing in the long-run. Your mother doesn't have to trust you in order for you to live flower... although she should. You're fully grown and quite capable of making your own decisions. I understand how the sensitive to criticism thing goes... my girlfriend tends to be hyper-sensitive to criticism (of ANY nature...) at certain points. Typically I just shrug it off and move on... because I know how she is and I know that only time can help to heal that. Your boyfriend obviously cares about you a great deal; you seem to care about him a great deal; you seem to make one another happy (generally); your differences probably help to balance one another out (much like my gf and I... my weaknesses are compensated for by her strengths and vice versa)... seems pretty healthy to me (Unless he's like beating you on a daily/monthly/ever basis and you're just not telling us). Trust yourself some Flower! It's OK! You've gotta be there for yourself because you're the only person you can *ALWAYS* depend on... no matter what ever happens. No need to always be on the look-out for 'red flags' just be aware of the situation. Just live for yourself for a little while... and see how that works out.
tanbark813 Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 The only thing I DO agree with you about is Tanbark. I feel so loved.
Author flowergirl Posted January 23, 2007 Author Posted January 23, 2007 Sorry Revolution, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone who's ever been to jail is scum, after all, we all make mistakes. The scum I hung out with were repeat offenders in jail and prison, could outdrink a fish, beat and raped women, (including me), neglected their children, that sorta thing. Those were the type of people I hung out with in my 20's, thank God that wore out. I'm glad I don't sleep in apartment stairwells anymore. I think I was mentally unstable during tat time, based on the very s***ty judgement I had, but que sera sera as they say. I'm glad I went through all that because I learned a hell of a lot. Anyway, I think that could be partially why my mother feels she needs to watch over me, because of that. I felt controlled, so I rebelled, and when I came back home, I felt as if maybe I was the problem, that my bipolar had something to do with this, not that I was running from one problem to even worse problems. And NO, Thank God my BF doesn't hit me. Never touched me a day during our relationship. As a matter of fact, during our first New Year's together, he got drunk, and was acting goofy, I freaked out because I was having flashbacks of my past with crazed, abusive drunkards, and I ran out in the middle of the night, because I was afraid and wanted to go home. He doesn't drive, so I was gonna take a taxi. He chased me down the street, and when he caught up with me, I slapped him, hard. and he did nothing. nada. zip. I'm amazed at this, because he shoulda returned the favor, and then left me where I was standing. So, ok, slightly mental, but don't regret that one either. I feel like a have a Master's in Life Drama, man, oh, man.
sb129 Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 I think your BF is really into you.. GREEN FLAG GREEN FLAG!!!! Your mum should always be there for you to support you, but it doesn't have to be in the same house. I am hypercritical to criticism, more at some times than other. Esp this week, when I am having a bad week... I can't seem to please anyone right now, I am homesick, I miss my BF, my family and friends. But it will pass... Today I said to BF- don't mind me I am just feeling sorry for myself after an incident at work wound me up. My life is still generally pretty good. The point is..... you are WAAAAAAY too tough on yourself. Give yourself a break. Allow yourself to make mistakes (without the spectre of your hypercritical mum looming in the background). Challenge yourself (move out move out!) and stop beating yourself up for your past. It happened. You learnt from it. Move on. You need to start believing in yourself. I think your BF believes in you....alot. And that is a good starting point for a happy functional relationship.
Author flowergirl Posted January 23, 2007 Author Posted January 23, 2007 Well, right now I'm trying to find what's called subsidized housing, which is a housing which is a regular neighborhood, and is subsidized by the county, and it helps those with mental illness begin to be independent. They live with a roommate or in an apt by themselves. It'll help me transition back into living on my own.
revolutionphilosophy Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Sorry Revolution, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone who's ever been to jail is scum, after all, we all make mistakes. No worries! I was jus messin with you anyway... life is far too short to take every thing seriously. The scum I hung out with were repeat offenders in jail and prison, could outdrink a fish, beat and raped women, (including me), neglected their children, that sorta thing. Those were the type of people I hung out with in my 20's, thank God that wore out. Hey I've known people like that while I was doing my bid in prison... most of them don't really fare very well (the rapists/women abusers at least). I'm glad I don't sleep in apartment stairwells anymore. I'm glad you don't either! I was homeless for approx 8 months back in 2000 (at the age of 18... yikes). It wasn't exactly the most pleasant experience of my entire life... but it certainly taught me a great deal!! ...when he caught up with me, I slapped him, hard. and he did nothing. nada. zip. I'm amazed at this, because he shoulda returned the favor, and then left me where I was standing. So, ok, slightly mental, but don't regret that one either. I feel like a have a Master's in Life Drama, man, oh, man. Sounds kinda like my reaction would've been... mostly b/c I was raised not to beat on women (unless they're seriously going to injure you). If he makes you feel any better, my girl has punched me in teh chest one time... and got the same result out of me. Walked away. Sometimes it's jus easier that way. Count yourself lucky Flower! You've got a good dude.
sb129 Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Count yourself lucky Flower! You've got a good dude. I second that.
mental_traveller Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 It's a simple difference in approach to life. Is that really so inexplicable? You value keeping the peace, so you bend to other people's will. He values being true to himself much higher, and is prepared to tolerate some discord in order to achieve that. It's simply a different personality preference, I don't see how you can say that one is objectively better than the other, it all depends on what you value more. Passive people who twist with the wind get a degree of peace & harmony at the expense of losing some control to others; stubborn indendent people experience more confrontation but as a result they get their own way more and live generally freer lives as a result. Try considering that your boyfriend prefers freedom & integrity over keeping up appearances. Can you see any legitimacy or value in that? Personally I agree somewhat with your boyfriend. Diplomacy is good when you need to get along with people, but not at the expense of losing your freedom & integrity. Finally, why blame your boyfriend for the consequences of your mother's behaviour? If anyone is at fault here, it sounds like her. It's possible that because you've had to live with her, you've evolved this passive personality as a coping mechanism to deal with her BS. Your bf on the other hand has not had to deal with growing up with a demanding bitch, so he sees no value in allowing that to shape his life. Maybe it's time you finally stood up to your mom and gave her a piece of your mind? As for suburban culture, you are right. A lot of it is about repressing your feelings, keeping up appearances, and conforming to what is the "done thing". That is why so many people loathe it and flee to the nearest large urban centre at the first opportunity, so they can be themselves without being judged or feeling like a total outsider.
mental_traveller Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 Everytime I've tried to even start a reasonable thought with her, even if it's just a sentence, she ends up yelling at me. So - ditch your mother.
justagirliegirl Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 I think someone has sold you on learned helplessness...your toxic family. I strongly suspect that if you got away from them...far far away, most of your problems would go away. being told you are inept and sick and incapable damages a person and soon enough you believe it.
Author flowergirl Posted January 24, 2007 Author Posted January 24, 2007 Good morning, everyone! Wake up, time to go to work! Man, I'm in a goofy mood this morning. Anyway, Mental Traveller, you have summed up our personalities and my situation perfectly. I realized, thinking back on one post I made that I said that my mother always yells at me, which isn't entirely accurate, she occassionally yells, but more often than not, like in the case of my family being in the restaurant and talking about my hair, she just gives me a look and then snaps at me or just speaks in an intimidating manner, no raised voices or anything, it's just the way she says things makes it hard to talk back to her. Years ago, when I was dating my jailbird boyfriend, I wanted to leave the house with him, and my mother held me down to a chair in my room to prevent me from moving and leaving with him. Now, I don't know whether that was the right or wrong way to deal with that or not, but it didn't have the effect she desired, which was to keep me from seeing him. Today, my BF is gonna give me the number of a friend of his to see if I could perhaps room with her, I've hung out with her a couple times, with and without my BF, and she seems cool. Apparently, she doesn't pay that much in rent, so I'll check it out. Well, Girliegirl, I'm not being told I'm sick, I am sick, I have bipolar, it's just that being around my mother exacerbates it, because she makes me so nervous and all. My dad, who pays most of the bills in the house, really doesn't have much say about things that go on in his own house. We have two cats and it took me awhile to figure out how to keep the kitty litter smell from wafting through our house. I figured it out and thought it smelled much better recently (Thank God for Febreze!). I asked my dad if he'd noticed. He said he thought so, but to go ask my mom for a definitive answer.
D-Lish Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 I think your mom has what she percieves to be your best interests in mind... but she goes about it the wrong way through the controlling/over-protective behaviour. Regardless, your relationship with your mom is obviously toxic to your recovery. You do need to get away from that, you really do. The problem with having an over protective parent is that you are never really free to make your own mistakes...and making mistakes is how people learn about life. It's all about trial and error in life. If you aren't free to make mistakes, you aren't able to learn from them....so it kind of stifles your growth as a person. It's great you have the motivation to move toward a more independant living situation, and that you have the positive support of your bf. :-) D
PussInHeels Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 Holy crap...I think you and I may be from some parallel universe. My mother can be overbearing and a pain, and she gets on both our nerves sometimes, but I'll try to please her and bite my tongue to avoid an argument. My husband is blunt and doesn't like to give or take BS. He says what he thinks, and if you piss him off, he'll let you know RIGHT AWAY. I admire his strength, but he can be so stubborn and unyielding in his opinions, that sometimes I get frustrated with him and think he's being insensitive and making a big deal over something small. (For example, my mother made our wedding invitations and she put one shiny red heart sticker on each. This infuriated him- it was actually kind of funny- and he was planning to tell my mother he didn't want to send the invites to his family, but I calmed him down) However, I know I don't stick up for myself enough, especially not to my mother. He gets frustrated with me for taking my mother's crap and getting all upset, which I can understand. So basically both of us have a tendency to handle situations inappropriately. In order to coexist, we had to understand each other (for the most part) and recognize we are different people with different approaches to solving problems. We also try to learn from each other: since we've been together, he's become more easy-going, I've become more assertive. The two of you can adapt to each other, but I don't think you'll ever completely dislodge your personalities.
PussInHeels Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 I am sick, I have bipolar, it's just that being around my mother exacerbates it, because she makes me so nervous and all. My dad, who pays most of the bills in the house, really doesn't have much say about things that go on in his own house. We have two cats and it took me awhile to figure out how to keep the kitty litter smell from wafting through our house. I figured it out and thought it smelled much better recently (Thank God for Febreze!). I asked my dad if he'd noticed. He said he thought so, but to go ask my mom for a definitive answer. I feel you...I have pretty bad anxiety which my mother exacerbates as well. The only thing that has helped me is constantly reminding myself of how my mother is and that she just doesn't view her actions in the same way so she doesn't think she's doing anything hurtful. Moms know what buttons to push, and they can say hurtful things, but most of the time they don't mean to, and you have to be the better person and let what she says roll off your back without compromising your decisions. I chalk it up to her personality and I try not to take it personally. It's really hard though and it's much easier when you don't live with her.
CarolAnne Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 Years ago, when I was dating my jailbird boyfriend, I wanted to leave the house with him, and my mother held me down to a chair in my room to prevent me from moving and leaving with him. HO-LEE S---T!! **hears music from Psycho playing in background** Now, I don't know whether that was the right or wrong way to deal with that or not, but it didn't have the effect she desired, which was to keep me from seeing him. It was wrong. WTF. You have a truly resilient soul not to have been crushed by something like that. Or to have run away. Or become psychotic. Or commit suicide -- oops. Well, not making light of your suicide attempt but seriously, it shows that you are human after all, not some well-behaved robot daughter programmed to smile on command. If I lived under those circumstances I would be pushed to the brink too. You have GOT to get away from your mom. Sorry that your dad is taking a back seat instead of defending you. I'm guessing he must just watch her railing on you and pretend he doesn't hear it. Doubt he wants to be on the receiving end either, should he butt in. I also came from an upper middle class background and the things you are describing are more like survival strategies to be able to live with your mom than suburban culture. You have convinced yourself that she is right because if she is wrong, that would mean fighting all the time if you stood up for what you know is right, and from the sound of it her fights don't just consist of words but get physical. She is scary - not only because she tells people what to do, gets loud and angry if they don't obey, and even physically restrains you to make you do what she wants, she also plays up guilt and shame to keep you in line. It would not surprise me if she reminds you how "mentally ill" you are just to make you think you need her terrible behavior. It's much easier to just believe you are wrong, deeply flawed in some way, and that someone else (her) has all the answers to keep you safe. But its not true at all. Try to think of a few examples of times she has not been right, in general. Then ask yourself, if she has made this many mistakes in her own life, why should this person have any business trying to direct my life? You can do a better job at the steering wheel yourself!
Author flowergirl Posted January 24, 2007 Author Posted January 24, 2007 D-lish, you're right about my mom, it's just so hard to break out of this, it feels like moving to another planet or something. One of my immediate goals is to find a roommate situation or something. Puss, I'm glad someone can relate, that helps me alot, knowing someone understands what having on overly controlling parent can do to a person.
Author flowergirl Posted January 25, 2007 Author Posted January 25, 2007 CarolAnne, I should clarify that my mom didn't actually touch me or hurt me physically. She put her arms on the sides of the chair to prevent me from getting up, but you are right that it's useful to think up examples where my mother might have been overprotective. I was doing that earlier today, not pleasant.
CarolAnne Posted January 25, 2007 Posted January 25, 2007 To me, the minute someone crosses the line into physical restraint is truly way beyond the point of no return Your mom could have told you she didn't like your BF and that she was completely against you moving with him and that it was a terrible idea for x number of reasons... But the minute she actually physically stops you from going to be with him, by blocking you into a chair, is just... whoa. If she had grabbed you by the hair it wouldn't be all that different in my view because the point of that is - she thinks she "knows what's best" for the poor misguided silly crazy hapless thing sitting in the chair, and she's even going to physically make you do what she wants if that's what it takes. It implies that her view of you is so low it borders on loving master-slave, that you are an immature child in need of protection that is supposed to make people happy and not cause problems, to the point that she can even physically make you do what she wants to "protect" you from yourself. That is very controlling, and just wrong on so many levels. I experienced something similar but rather than being physical it was completely shame and humiliation-based - being humiliated in front of people to remind us of our "place". It was very hard to break out of that routine because part of the reason they did it was out of love and the genuine fear that something bad would happen to me if I was on my own. But now that I am, I can look back and realize how inappropriate and sick it was.
Author flowergirl Posted January 25, 2007 Author Posted January 25, 2007 Hey, CarolAnne, I've never looked at the chair incident that way before. I just don't know what to think now, it's really sad to think about people who're supposed to guide you acting this way. I'm pretty much still in the denial phase. Anyway, I'm not sure whether the scenario I'm about to write about is me being misguided, because I don't wanna go in the totally opposite direction and llok for wrogdoing in everything my mother does, so her goes. Last night, my boyfriend came over to a special family dinner because my sister's been in town, and he wanted to come over and meet her. Now, my BF doesn't come over to my house very often, every couple of months. Anyway, He was supposed to spend the night there, but ended up having to leave because he had to go look at a couch for his new apt, befor the owner threw it out to the Salvation Army this morning. Well, this morning, when I come into work, she jokingly asks if he had to leave because of the couch or if he'd had enough of my family, and I told her it was the couch. Then she comes to my desk and says he's welcome anytime, and that he should "drop in", like my brother's friends do. She goes on to say he should come over more often, and it shouldn't be a special occasion, that he should be in the "category" (her term) of people who comes over on a regular basis. She's big on having people visit on a regular basis especially if they live in the neighborhood. As I stated in earlier posts in this thread, my BF isn't so much into the whole social conformity thing, and doesn't feel the need to follow some set standard of when he should go see people. She really doesn't like that he only comes over every couple of months, and I must admit, I used to bug him about it, but I'm very slowly coming around to appreciating his point of view, even as different as it is to what I'm used to. After all, it's his life, and he should do what he wants. I haven't explained any of this to my mother, because I'm not sure whether or not it's neccesary, and whether she's crossing some boundary by trying to get my BF to come over more often. Do you think that scenario indicates she's trying to dictate someone else's behavior or maybe she really is just curious as to why he doesn't visit moe often, and her comments aren't sinister. I'm truly confused.
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