bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 Here is my story and my question is how long should I wait? My relationship with MM started six months ago. At the time, we were both living alone in the same town. I saw my partner on weekends, he saw his wife and kids. In the beginning we were just friends, but after two months we one night took the fateful step and became lovers. Not only that, we also started spending every night together from monday to friday. We just clicked on so many levels: physically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually. And while a lot of evenings were spent wining and dining, we also did the normal couple-things like crashing in front of the TV and watching movies. After three months I left my partner, and MM and I started talking about a life together. Their M is void of passion and she had made it clear she did not care for many of his interests, nor some of his closest friends. Late last year, I left the town were we met to take up a new job elsewhere, but we agreed to continue to see eachother at least once a week, while figuring out whether we had a future together. All those plans, however, were shattered when his W some weeks ago discovered that he was having an affair, Since then, we have seen each other two times, but talked for hours over the phone. He says the decision to leave his W and kids is so big that he wants to be absolutely sure it is right, which I understand. He also asks for reassurances that I will be there and for the long-haul if he leaves. But he also says that he cannot yet make his choice. I know it is the biggest clichee, but he is the man I want to be with the rest of my life, and he has said that he would not hesitate to be with me, if he wasn't married. We share everything and have no secrets from each other and whenever we talk it is totally open and honest. But I must admit that it is beginning to be difficult to be there for him during his period of reflecting on what he wants to do, especially since he tells me everything, including all his doubts and fears about leaving and about being with me. It is also difficult to hear everything about the conversations he is having with his wife and her willingness to forgive and forget everything. What do you think?
Kathleen Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 to give new posters a heads up about betrayed spouse's & such that come here, offer adivice (if you could call it that), or just bash. I feel really bad for other women who try to get some advice/support/help etc...
MoonGirl Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 bigblueeyes, I can relate somewhat to what your MM is feeling, since I am a MW with an OM (emotional affair). The big exception in my situation is that my H is abusive, we haven't slept in the same room or been intimate for over 2 years). Still, it is harder than you can imagine to leave since what I have with my family is what I am used to. Like your MM and his W, we have kids. We have a house, 2 cars, mutual friends, etc. In your case, it sounds like your MM and his wife have a decent relationship (she is willing to forgive him and work on their marriage). If he leaves her, he risks loosing more than you can imagine. Keep in mind that even if MM loves you, leaving his wife may not be a reality. Not that it is not possible, but it is just not very likely. Leaving a stable marriage with kids for the unknown is pretty nerve wrecking. There are so many "what ifs". Even though you can "promise" your MM your love and devotion, to him, it is still very uncertain I am sure. Your promises certainly can't compare to those of a woman (his wife) who has stood by his side for years, given birth to children he loves, and is now willing to forgive him for his infidelity. I would say that he is probably even less likely to leave his wife if you're available to talk, email, text message, etc. Even though he is distraught and knows he should make a decision, he still has what he really wants right now - which is both his wife and you. I would recommend no contact between the two of you (no calls, no visits, no email, nothing). This way, you will not have to hear all of the details that are going on in his mind, and he will have the opportunity to feel what life is like without you in it. This is the only way he will be able to make a decision. Also give him a time limit. But be sure that you know that by doing this, you may loose him. If you don't do this, his indecision may go on for months or years (no kidding!). If your MM eventually decides to leave his W (which I doubt he will), he also needs time to mourn and heal, and you will need to give him time and space to accomplish that. Then there is always a chance he will regret his decision and run back to his W, who seems accomodating enough to accept him back into her life. I don't mean to sound harsh because I really do understand that you're in pain. I also want to help you understand where your MM is coming from and the reasons why he will probably not leave his W. I think that if his home life stunk and his wife were a crazy b**** and he was thinking of leaving her regardless of the affair, then maybe it'd give you some hope in the situation. But since this doesn't seem to be the case, my suggestion to you is to move on. Find a nice single man who can make you his only woman, who has a lot less baggage, and a lot more to offer you. Good luck!
NoIDidn't Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 to give new posters a heads up about betrayed spouse's & such that come here, offer adivice (if you could call it that), or just bash. I feel really bad for other women who try to get some advice/support/help etc... Kathleen what exactly have YOU added to this forum besides the pointing out that this is an open forum for ALL that post on LS? Stop trying to scare the new folks away with this foolishness. LS is an open community, open to those of ALL viewpoints. You are not helping.
frannie Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 He says the decision to leave his W and kids is so big that he wants to be absolutely sure it is right, which I understand. He also asks for reassurances that I will be there and for the long-haul if he leaves. But he also says that he cannot yet make his choice. You stay in this just as long as you care to, for as long as it's not hurting you. You make decisions on what you need, and whether or not it's worth the wait/what you have. What I'd say here... is he has no right to ask for reassurances from you that you'll be here 'for the long haul' if he leaves. He has to leave for himself, for his own reasons, and because he feels it's the best decision for him and whoever his dependents are. If further down the line you two don't work out he doesn't have a right to blame you for his decisions. If he leaves, on his own head be it. That's the end of the story. He can't expect you to shoulder the blame for that.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 to give new posters a heads up about betrayed spouse's & such that come here, offer adivice (if you could call it that), or just bash. I feel really bad for other women who try to get some advice/support/help etc... I think it is nice of Kathleen to issue a health warning especially after having read some of the posts on the forum. What I want is advice from someone who has waited in vain or not :-) I can very much relate to the situation his wife is in, who cannot as a woman? However, I can also relate to his situation and of course my own.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 You stay in this just as long as you care to, for as long as it's not hurting you. You make decisions on what you need, and whether or not it's worth the wait/what you have. What I'd say here... is he has no right to ask for reassurances from you that you'll be here 'for the long haul' if he leaves. He has to leave for himself, for his own reasons, and because he feels it's the best decision for him and whoever his dependents are. If further down the line you two don't work out he doesn't have a right to blame you for his decisions. If he leaves, on his own head be it. That's the end of the story. He can't expect you to shoulder the blame for that. Frannie, I could not agree more and I have said this to him. I do not believe in forgiving and forgetting everything and if I was told by my M that he loved someone else, I would change the locks - kids or no kids.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 I guess that makes me the BS & such, too. WHAT AM I ??? CHOPPED LIVER??? LOL
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 Moongirl, I was very young when I had the misfortune of running into an abusive man. It took me two years to get out, but I did. It took me even longer to get over, but I did. I also know why I got into and that was because I saw abuse in my parents marriage. They also had mutual friends, a nice house and cars - all the status symbols you can ask for, but it wasn't a fun place to be a little girl:(
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 I guess that makes me the BS & such, too. WHAT AM I ??? CHOPPED LIVER??? LOL RMD, I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend (which I guess is really difficult in these forums)
Kathleen Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 I am here to offer advice. Sorry to have offended. AGAIN. Gees. Lighten up a bit.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 No offence taken, just lol'ing for the heck of it. NID Remember the LS rules, if you break it, you bought it. Generally speaking, I guess theres an additional element of risk in affairs, you know, the risk of getting hurt. But thats true for even married couples and it's especially true for reconcilled couples like me. It's all a risk. Maybe I should have changed my identity and ran away to mexico and learned to play the guitar while I was still young and had the chance. Sighs. Well never know now "what could have been" will we. lol.
puddleofmud Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 "He also asks for reassurances that I will be there and for the long-haul if he leaves. But he also says that he cannot yet make his choice." At this juncture he is seemingly not willing to choose-- for whatever reasons and the reasons may sound rational--but does it really matter? In short YOU are not the current choice, though you may be the proverbial "fall-girl" as in: "if this doesn't work out; will you rescue me?" How do you feel about this? Is this someone who is whole, healthy and ready to be in a new relationship in an whole and healthy manner? What do you want for yourself and what will "waiting" (no matter how long) bring to you? Will it bring you a happy, healthy partner ready to begin a wonderful full-time relationship via loosing the baggage of their past and ready to give to you ALL you seek and deserve? You may choose to wait as long as you wish--but the bottom line should be or could be more about exactly what kind of a partner are you waiting for? Best wishes to you!
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 puddle, that is one way of looking at it. But don't we all come with baggage? And isn't ok that he doesn't throw everything away without first thinking it through? I truly believe that it only really hit him when his W discovered the relationship what consequences it had, because he did not have to think that hard about them before. Romeo, you can still be or do whatever you want. Nothing should ever stop you from that. I hope that I will never stop persuing my dreams :-)
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 He says the decision to leave his W and kids is so big that he wants to be absolutely sure it is right, which I understand. He also asks for reassurances that I will be there and for the long-haul if he leaves. But he also says that he cannot yet make his choice. He isn't going to make a choice, because he doesn't have to. You are letting him know just by 'being there' for him, that on some level you condone his decision to keep you as his OW while he remains married. If you are ok with being the OW and you continue to let him put you in that position, why would he give up his life to make you his only woman? There's no reason to. You aren't giving him one. You want to give him a reason to leave? Show him that if he doesn't, his life with you is over. Tell him that as soon as he is divorced, and free to be with you then he can come to you. Otherwise, he is never to contact you again in any way, shape or form. Don't allow him to contact you. Block every way you can think of for that to happen. If he wants to be with you, and he thinks you are worth it to him to make you the only woman in his life, then he will get that divorce, and he will find a way to contact you and be with you. If he only thinks you are worth the OW status, he will let you walk away and most likely find another OW to fill your spot. I guess the question here is - what do you think your value is? Are you worth only being the OW, or are you worth being the Only Woman? If you are worth more than being the OW, then stand up for yourself - show him your worth by walking away from him, and making him come to you a free man. Make yourself a prize. Something worth fighting for, and winning.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 He knows I will not wait forever... I'm not sure that I need NC to drive home that point. Besides, I do have an upper hand as he goes home to his empty flat on weekdays or his unhappy marriage on weekends, while he knows that I am in a town with loads of really good friends to party with, a great job and a lot of dinner invites, if I wanted to date There is an incentive in that on its own
NoIDidn't Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 He knows I will not wait forever... I'm not sure that I need NC to drive home that point. Besides, I do have an upper hand as he goes home to his empty flat on weekdays or his unhappy marriage on weekends, while he knows that I am in a town with loads of really good friends to party with, a great job and a lot of dinner invites, if I wanted to date There is an incentive in that on its own I wouldn't bet on it. It comes across as manipulative and like emotional blackmail. He may even think that you are not all that serious about him if you decide to go out on other dates WHILE you continue to see him. Its that MM double standard, I'm afraid. I think total NC is a great way to prove that you will survive without him, but make him question if he will survive without you. The usual fear of going NC is that MM will forget about you. If he is thinking about leaving his M seriously, he will need NC from you and from her to work through his decision.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 It is not that I would or want to date anyone. And I'm not rubbing anything in his face. He knows that I am in a job where I have contact with a lot of people on a daily basis and a very high-profile job, which is part of the reason he is attracted. On whether he needs NC to make his mind up, he has said that he needs me to be there for him now. He wants to stay in touch and be able to reach out to me. We've grown very close in a short time, and I am one of the few people in his life he can share everything with and to be without a best friend at a time like this is hard.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 PS I don't think there is any doubt in his mind that I will survive without him. His dilemma is whether he can survive without me as well as survive the divorce or survive in a marriage he has lost faith in.
silktricks Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 The thing is, he doesn't need to make a CHOICE, as right now he does have both. To expect that you'll be there "for the long haul" if he leaves is kinda idiotic though. Not that you won't, just that no one can ever really know that. After all, he planned to be there "for the long haul" when he married his wife, and that doesn't appear to be what's happening now. It seems a little - well the word immature springs to mind - to think that anyone can make that kind of commitment to help him make up his mind. . . But that's just me.
NoIDidn't Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 PS I don't think there is any doubt in his mind that I will survive without him. His dilemma is whether he can survive without me as well as survive the divorce or survive in a marriage he has lost faith in. Well, in that case, you should give him the chance to find his own strength. I agree with Silk. It sounds like he is afraid of being alone with himself. He needs to handle his W and/or D on his own. Not by using you as an emotional crutch. He really sounds like one of those emotional vampire people. Look it up. I wouldn't do any good trying to explain it here. He wants a guarantee that you will wait and support him, but what is he giving you? A broken, confused man who is afraid to live without someone else to hold him up.
Author bigblueeyes Posted January 19, 2007 Author Posted January 19, 2007 I so get the point about his need for reassurance, but on the other hand I also understand it. I think, he wants to be sure that I mean it when I say I want to be with him. We both know there are no guarantees, but that does not mean that you do not want to be told that someone will be there for you
norajane Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 I so get the point about his need for reassurance, but on the other hand I also understand it. I think, he wants to be sure that I mean it when I say I want to be with him. We both know there are no guarantees, but that does not mean that you do not want to be told that someone will be there for you Well, is he even saying he wants to be with you? He's still debating on staying in his marriage, so what makes you think he means anything he says about your relationship? Look, he's not giving you any sort of promises or guarantees about YOUR long haul with him - does he even recognize what a long haul it will be for you? Making a decision about divorce, telling her, dealing with the intermediary period where he wavers on the decision, separating physically and legally, filing for divorce, waiting for the divorce to be finalized, etc. - that's a really, really long haul for YOU. And, what guarantee will you have that he's going to be there for YOU after his divorce? Once he's free from his marriage, maybe he'll wonder if he should really be involved in another serious relationship right away. Maybe he'll decide he doesn't want to get married for a long time, and maybe he should date for a while. Worry less about him and his needs, and worry far, far more about YOU.
Seen_It_All Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 Why does your being there affect his choice at all? If his marriage is SO horrible and passionless like he claims, then why doesn't he leave it because it's the RIGHT thing to do, not because he wants you to make it all better if decides to run away from home? This guy seriously needs to sprout a set. But I wouldn't expect him to make the break anytime soon.
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