Beware of what you say to the MM

[puddleofmud]

If you read my posts you will see that I admit that there were problems in my marriage that needed to be fixed. We go to MC every Thursday and have gotten through most of the crap. I asked questions because it's my nature to want to know. He answered and I appreciate that. You may not want to know and that's your choice. I will repeat, the purpose of this thread is to give you insight to what happens after an affair is exposed. If you don't care about it, then that's you choice as well.

 

Sorry, sweetie, I wasn't disagreeing w/ your point in the least and do understand that you are issuing a "warning" and sorry if I high-jacked a little!

My response was a little more general and concentrated on the issue of "kiss and tell", not just your situation.

I am very happy for you if your H honesty helps you and that is your choice as to your "need to know" situation.

I sincerely apologize if I came off as disrespectful about that...

[GreenEyedLady]

You know I just have a problem with someone "warning" me by telling me to watch what I tell the person I'm in a R with...obviously if I'm telling my SO intimate details, it's because I've been with him a pretty fair amount of time and I'm not going to guard myself at that point...that kind of hinders any intimacy...but I guess of course a W would want that...

[cbl]

Even if what you say is true (which I don't think it is), the MM usually only tells the OW things about the wife that pertain to him or the marriage. A MM is usually not going to have discussions with the OW about his wife's past personal history. Or his wife's family history or how his wife feels about her friends and coworkers. Or details about his wife's body and sexual preferences. Maybe I'm wrong, but if a MM spends that much time talking about his wife to the OW why would the OW stick around?

 

i don't know if it's true. but being an OW myself, i had no choice but to accept the fact that the wife is part of his life (i was sort of forced into it but that's another story) when he talked about his aging father, he talked about her; when he talked about his two kids who he's so proud of, he talked about her too. she doesn't work so no co-workers and he knows very few of her friends. and i know a lot more but let's just not go there.

 

while you have a choice here, you can choose not to have her in your life as you two are working on your marriage (like you said you did, which is fantastic and i am happy for you). the OW could be anyone else, and she happened to be there and fell in love with your H, which goes back to the point why she tells so much about herself to your husband.

[frannie]

Some of you may wonder what happens when the MM decides to stay and make his marriage work. Some may not, but here goes anyway.

 

After the initial shock that I can't even describe, the MM realizes that he needs to be honest. He starts with trying to minimize the affair, but either through MC or the BW's constant questioning, he knows that the best way to gain trust is to be completely truthful about even the tiniest detail (if that's what the BW wants).

 

This includes everything that was ever said about anything. The BW wants to know what the OW has been told about her and everything the OW has discussed with the MM. In my case, the OW did not want to ever talk about me, she pretended that I didn't exist, so there was no talk about my personal life. However, she told my H her entire life story and in turn, he told me.

 

I know things about her family, how she feels about the people she works with, the name of the other MM she is ****ing and where he lives (she tried to make my H jealous by flaunting the other MM). I know about her finances, personal things about her past and present. Her sexual preferences and the extra weight that she has tried so hard to shed. Do I need to go on? Basically if I was a cruel and vindictive person, I could destroy her personally and professionally. A BW that eventually decides to leave the marriage has nothing to lose. I'm obviously not going to do anything with the info.

 

I tell you this to warn you about the fact that the things you tell your MM may be the very details that he talks about with his wife. Believe me, when faced with losing everything the MM has no loyalty to the OW. He spills big time.

 

I know the spirit of this is in warning people about sharing information between OW and MM. But... really, you could take out those designators and apply it to getting involved with anyone who has a tendency to blab personal information, or indeed that information being shared with a third party who is vindictive or competitive enough that they'd actually use it in some way.

 

I mean, that could happen with any work colleague, single partner, or anyone... some people don't know how to be discreet (about themselves or others), some people don't know when to stop asking questions, and yes, some people would find it hard when in posession of personal information about another not to use it in some way.

 

I suppose what you're saying is that the WS/MM feels some kind of duty to 'reveal all' in a spirit of contrition and will at that point betray everything that he's learnt about the OW, IF that's his and his BS's mindset. And you do have a point.

 

All I can say is that if I didn't want something about myself to come out at a later date I wouldn't share it with anyone, no matter who they are. But then I'm not a terribly trusting person. I'm prepared for anything to happen, anything to come out...

 

I think if someone is going to go around using information like that then it reflects as badly on them as on the person who is being trashed. And always remember that they could do the same in return. Your H may have told you that she knows nothing about you... but he could be lying. You know what cheaters are...

[herenow]

You know I just have a problem with someone "warning" me by telling me to watch what I tell the person I'm in a R with...obviously if I'm telling my SO intimate details, it's because I've been with him a pretty fair amount of time and I'm not going to guard myself at that point...that kind of hinders any intimacy...but I guess of course a W would want that...

 

A warning is just that, information to help you make a decision. It's not a call to action or a demand. Many people ignore warnings and the storm never comes. No harm done and life moves on. However, others ignore the warning and find themselves in the middle of the storm. Only you can make the choice to listen to a warning or not.

 

By the way, I would think that the fact that a man is married would hinder intimacy with an OW, but that's just my opinion.

[herenow]

I know the spirit of this is in warning people about sharing information between OW and MM. But... really, you could take out those designators and apply it to getting involved with anyone who has a tendency to blab personal information, or indeed that information being shared with a third party who is vindictive or competitive enough that they'd actually use it in some way.

 

I mean, that could happen with any work colleague, single partner, or anyone... some people don't know how to be discreet (about themselves or others), some people don't know when to stop asking questions, and yes, some people would find it hard when in posession of personal information about another not to use it in some way.

 

I suppose what you're saying is that the WS/MM feels some kind of duty to 'reveal all' in a spirit of contrition and will at that point betray everything that he's learnt about the OW, IF that's his and his BS's mindset. And you do have a point.

 

All I can say is that if I didn't want something about myself to come out at a later date I wouldn't share it with anyone, no matter who they are. But then I'm not a terribly trusting person. I'm prepared for anything to happen, anything to come out...

 

I think if someone is going to go around using information like that then it reflects as badly on them as on the person who is being trashed. And always remember that they could do the same in return. Your H may have told you that she knows nothing about you... but he could be lying. You know what cheaters are...

 

I agree with you. There is always that possibility that she or anyone else could have personal info about me. I'm can't think of anything that he could have told her that could do more than embarrass me. Trust me after dealing with an EMA in the first place, I can take a little embarrassment. But I do agree that anyone can betray trust in any type of relationship.

 

I'm use my own situation as an example because that's all I know. Even our therapist says I asked too many questions. I actually stopped asking months ago because she said that it was doing more harm than good and I should be spending time focusing on our marriage. I needed the info because I am a creative person and along with that I have a vivid imagination. I felt it was better to know the truth than let my imagination get the best of me. Let me tell you, the truth was less hurtful than what I would have come up with in my mind.

 

I just thought I would let the OW know that there are W's who do need all the pieces of the puzzle to be able to move on. And when asked (or sometimes they don't even need to be asked), the H will divulge everything. Again, if this info has no value to anyone, then that's OK.

[HellenBack]

Herenow, I agree with your post... the husband spills his guts on and after d-day...at least mine did. I knew way too much about her..more than I wanted to know. Some of it so personal that a woman wouldn't want another woman to know. I know all of it was true because I repeated all of it to the OW to her face. Her chin hit the floor in horror...sorry, it was a revenge thing for me.

 

My husb even took me to her apt so I could see where she lived, he took me to her work, showed me her car. Told me all her phone numbers, including work. He didn't miss a detail, not even in the description of the mole on her a$$. She was one horrified woman when I repeated everything, including how she used to laugh about me not knowing and how she was competing with a woman that didn't know she was competing...That's pretty cowardly on her part. My husb repeated the names that she called me too...I am not talking about a kid, she's well into her 50's. She used to refer to me with names that kids say on the playground...she thought she was pretty great. Little did she realize, everytime she talked crap on me, it made my husb see her for who she really was. This woman wouldn't have been able to recognize me on the street, how she had the audacity to call me names, or criticize anything about me is beyond me.

 

On d-day, she admitted it all, of course, no apologies. She admitted to threatening him, she admitted to everything she did at the gutter level to keep a "boyfriend"...guess her charm wasn't enough.

 

It must suck to be her..

[pricillia]

Herenow, I agree with your post... the husband spills his guts on and after d-day...at least mine did. I knew way too much about her..more than I wanted to know. Some of it so personal that a woman wouldn't want another woman to know. I know all of it was true because I repeated all of it to the OW to her face. Her chin hit the floor in horror...sorry, it was a revenge thing for me.

 

My husb even took me to her apt so I could see where she lived, he took me to her work, showed me her car. Told me all her phone numbers, including work. He didn't miss a detail, not even in the description of the mole on her a$$. She was one horrified woman when I repeated everything, including how she used to laugh about me not knowing and how she was competing with a woman that didn't know she was competing...That's pretty cowardly on her part. My husb repeated the names that she called me too...I am not talking about a kid, she's well into her 50's. She used to refer to me with names that kids say on the playground...she thought she was pretty great. Little did she realize, everytime she talked crap on me, it made my husb see her for who she really was. This woman wouldn't have been able to recognize me on the street, how she had the audacity to call me names, or criticize anything about me is beyond me.

 

On d-day, she admitted it all, of course, no apologies. She admitted to threatening him, she admitted to everything she did at the gutter level to keep a "boyfriend"...guess her charm wasn't enough.

 

It must suck to be her..

 

 

You see not all OW are like this... But I admit this is wrong, bashing anyone is really wrong.. in any situation.

 

I know that the OW exists, I get it... I do not know what she is like, and I prefer not to, I am trying to deal with being in this situation.

[lover's rock]

I guess the point is that in the end...and even sometimes during, the OW is mocked in the moments the MM is feeling close to the W. I suppose it goes both ways. MM sway in their feelings from one side to the other -- whoever gives him the least stress at a particular moment in time.

 

When my H's OW was leaving messages and begging him to come back, he and I would listen to his voicemail together and decide how he should respond. In the moments when he felt like he could be free from her he'd tell me everything he hated about her. I know everything about her personally (diseases she has and has dealt with, where she lives and works, her finances, her family, her friends, her roommates, sex with her [which I didn't want to know], her clothes sizes, even her past boyfriends) as well and could destroy her if I wanted to. But she could not destroy me despite her efforts (speaking for my own situation).

 

I think what Herenow is saying is to just be mindful of all the consequences of this situation. It's not just heartache. In Michigan they just approved a law that says anyone in participating in extramarital affairs (as a means to obtain something illegal like drugs, etc.) can receive life in prison. Somewhere else a wife has sued the OW for everything she has for causing emotional damage. You'd think the person you love and who loves you (the MM) would protect you personally but when things come out in the light of day, they tend to be cowards. They will cleanse themselves of you, rather than stand up for you.

 

In two words...be careful...

[outofdarkness]

Some of you may wonder what happens when the MM decides to stay and make his marriage work. Some may not, but here goes anyway.

 

After the initial shock that I can't even describe, the MM realizes that he needs to be honest. He starts with trying to minimize the affair, but either through MC or the BW's constant questioning, he knows that the best way to gain trust is to be completely truthful about even the tiniest detail (if that's what the BW wants).

 

This includes everything that was ever said about anything. The BW wants to know what the OW has been told about her and everything the OW has discussed with the MM. In my case, the OW did not want to ever talk about me, she pretended that I didn't exist, so there was no talk about my personal life. However, she told my H her entire life story and in turn, he told me.

 

I know things about her family, how she feels about the people she works with, the name of the other MM she is ****ing and where he lives (she tried to make my H jealous by flaunting the other MM). I know about her finances, personal things about her past and present. Her sexual preferences and the extra weight that she has tried so hard to shed. Do I need to go on? Basically if I was a cruel and vindictive person, I could destroy her personally and professionally. A BW that eventually decides to leave the marriage has nothing to lose. I'm obviously not going to do anything with the info.

 

I tell you this to warn you about the fact that the things you tell your MM may be the very details that he talks about with his wife. Believe me, when faced with losing everything the MM has no loyalty to the OW. He spills big time.

Not necessarily true!!! There are MANY things that remain unknown to me, either out of loyalty to the OWs or just wanting to move on. Even not wanting to hurt me...I didn't WANT to know every detail. I already knew that I had to change the passwords on our online bank accounts, e mail, ect...I already know that I had to change our phone to unlisted, and I already knew to let our children's school know that noone but my H or myself and Mother are allowed to know any info regarding our kids, and to let us know immediately should THEY receive any info regarding our kids. I already knew that she knew every detail about our supposed "lack of sex life"; a lie I might add. I already knew that they knew all about my favorite foods, my aversion to cooking, my weight LOSS, because I did loose 35lbs. My hairdresser's name, what time my mailman came, etc...I didn't need to be told these things, it's just a given that all of this info came out!

[frannie]

My husb repeated the names that she called me too...I am not talking about a kid, she's well into her 50's. She used to refer to me with names that kids say on the playground...she thought she was pretty great. Little did she realize, everytime she talked crap on me, it made my husb see her for who she really was...

 

Wow. Makes you wonder how he could have sat there and listened to all those insults coming out of her mouth about the wife he loved.

 

Must have been hell for him.

[Tomcat33]

I think this post is stupid, not the person who wrote it just the words...before I get anyone's back up....

 

Caring what the cheater says to the betrayed spouce is the least of one's worries. With that in mind we should be losing sleep over what each and every ex has to tell their new partners about us? Who has time to live like that worrying about nothing? No matter what he/she choses to say about me the OW OM the fat that they slept in the bed of the OW OM while they were still married/commited to someone else will always be 100 times worse than anything he/she could possibly tell her about OM OW.

 

I honestly believe that.

 

What peaks my curiosity is why people take back cheating spouces? How do you cope and return to your marriage after that has happened??? Isn't that enough to taint it forever?

And before some people turn the tables and quote the all so favourite:

 

"well how could you stay with someone who cheats don't you think he will also do it to you?"

 

the difference is the spouce has living proof that he/she cheated the OW OM doens't, not to them at least..and people do make mistakes they don't repeat not everything is black and white. It's a big risk to take, but one that is based on half truths.

[dothawoman]

As i sit here and read all of these comments i makes me realize how naive i have been.

[Kathleen]

As i sit here and read all of these comments i makes me realize how naive i have been.

 

Why might I ask is it that you feel you are naive after reading these comments?

[Ripples]

What peaks my curiosity is why people take back cheating spouces? How do you cope and return to your marriage after that has happened??? Isn't that enough to taint it forever?

 

Because my partner's affairs were as a result of our relationship being less than either of us wanted and needed. Because my partner realised that he wanted us to work, he didn't want to be without me.

 

I was told something a little while back, that I believe is the truth - that now we have the chance to build something far better than we had before, in full cognisance of each other's and our own, emotional needs.

 

So no, it hasn't 'tainted' my relationship, it will always be there, but as a blessing in disguise.

[Tomcat33]

I was told something a little while back, that I believe is the truth - that now we have the chance to build something far better than we had before, in full cognisance of each other's and our own, emotional needs.

Those are powerful words Ripples. It takes great strength to believe that a person who did you wrong will learn from their mistakes and never hurt you in that way again. BUT it is totally possible you and many others are living proof.

 

This is a good example that if looked at on the opposite end of the spectrum can also be used to negate the "nay sayer's" comments that a person who was a cheater with you will turn around and do it to you too. Is it not possible that a person that actually fell in love outside of a dead marriage and chose the OP over their spouse can also never commit the same error again? Is it not possible that this person suffered greatly for himself and for all involved and now that he has tested the waters in this respect never wants to be in those shoes again? What if the OP was the true love of their life?

 

Yes that is possible. At least I think it is. But this can only be possible if the cheater chooses one or the other, not if he stays and continues the affair.

[Ripples]

There are a million variables, too many to take into consideration in a blanket assessment of affairs. Although there may be a certain number of types of affair, types of cheater, each situation will differ enough for no 'one size fits all' answer.

 

However, I do tend towards believing that the vast majority of affairs that MM have (as opposed to MW) are as a product of the MM feeling unfulfilled in his marriage and not being able to understand, handle and express his emotions with regards to that. Very often, the discovery of the affair is the catalyst to get the marriage back on track (i.e the wife realises she needs to work on this, as well as the MM realising the enormity of what he's done). So, whilst I don't disagree with what you say, in that yes, it's perfectly possible for the MM to be faithful to his OW when he leaves his wife, I do think that the scenario of a MM actually choosing his OW rather than his marriage, is rare. It seems that more often than not the MM and his wife either repair the relationship or the wife will kick her H out, and thus, if the MM then goes to his OW, it's not through his own choosing.

 

Anyway, I may very well not be able to have the strength needed to repair my relationship successfully... but that's another story.

 

Sorry if this is rambling, btw. I'm not really up to speed at the moment.

[outofdarkness]

I am starting a new thread because of something that happened to me today. Just earlier today, I thought I was one of the few who took the CH back and it was working...I could trust him again, I felt free again to confide, and love, and I felt confindent in our abilities to make it even better. See my new thread for details...

[PoshPrincess]

To be honest, I don't know if any of us, BS or OP, are being told the truth. At the end of the day we will believe what we want to believe. As far as I know my ex-MM told his W as little as possible about our A. Ok, it WAS mainly an EA but he still played everything down as much as possible. I didn't ask too much about his personal life. We talked about family, our kids, stuff like that but I certainly didn't want to know every detail of his marriage, particularly his sex life and I DO think he had some loyalty towards his wife (believe it or not!) in that he wouldn't reveal that sort of information. He did tell me, however, that they had both had As with OPs early on in their M and that no one knew about the one he had. I think his W knew about his to a certain extent but thought it was a one off. So, I guess we all have information that we could use to our advantage if we were that way inclined.

 

I agree with what one of the other posters said in that, whatever happens to us OW after the event, we couldn't possibly be as hurt as the W who was cheated on. I feel I would have to accept any repercussions that our A would have caused. You can't expect to get into a R with someone else's H or W without coming out of it totally unscathed. I believe my ex-MM lied to his W about the extent of out A to protect all of us; his W, his kids and even me, while foremostly protecting himself of course!!!