kyle_c Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I am new to the forum. My post is rather long, but I wanted to provide as many details as possible. My wife and I have been together for 12 years married for 4 years. We are both in our mid thirties. We are both educated, I received my Ph.D. three years ago, she will receive hers in April. I want to have a family with her more than anything and I have told her this. In the past two years she has asked me to have children repeatedly. We agreed that we will have children when her graduation is in sight. I feel that she does not believe that we will have children. She has told me that she was unhappy about once a month in the last year. I have asked her why and she has responded either she does not know why or that it has to do with work. Her actions always suggested to me that she was happy. A year ago she had a miscarriage that revealed a large growth on her uterus. We agreed that to increase our fertility we would have surgery to remove the growth. We had the surgery in July. I stood by her and completely supported it. We had been under some stress since she is graduating soon and we have had some problems finding jobs together. I feel that it is her turn for a career, and we had talked alot about leaving where we live and living in the mountains or the beach for the past several years. Near the end of September I was away on business. While I was gone she told me that she had a job prospect in the mountains. I returned home early to tell her that I thought we should pursue this job and that I thought we should use a trip we were planning overseas in late October (a trip of a lifetime) to get pregnant. She responded by telling me that she did not want to have children with me anymore and that she wanted to move out. She asked me to help her with some fieldwork two days later. It was then that she told me that she had been having an emotional affair with someone from work for about a month and had sex with him twice while I was recently out of town. She had been drinking on both occasions. We agreed that we had made alot of mistakes mostly in communication of needs and that we should go to marriage counselor. She agreed to stop seeing him and we agreed to work on bettering ourselves primarily and working on our marriage secondary. We found her a place where she could live nights and weekends, and she could move into after our trip. We continued to sleep, eat, shower, etc together through our trip overseas. Our trip went well, but on the second day she got really upset that nothing had happened to make her fall back in love with me yet during the trip. She said that she expected something to happen. I told her that at this point we might need to try to make something happen rather than wait for it. When we returned she moved out. Until early December she was really upset, usually coming back to our home in the middle of the night to sleep with me and always coming home in the morning to shower with me. She has been really depressed since, often sleeping and drinking all day long. In the meantime I have read several books including, his needs her needs, surviving an affair, not just friends, relationship rescue, men are from mars, codependent no more, dance of connection, 7 principles of making marriage work, women's infiddelity. I am very serious about recovering our marriage. I found out through a mutual friend and her mother that this is indeed about my alleged disinterest in children. I found out that she restarted the affair around new years. Th other man is around thirty, a fellow student who is separating/divorcing his wife and daughter. She continues to call me throughout each day and we see each other daily. She recently told me that she thought the affair was very bad and she wanted to end it. She agreed that it is the source of her depression and dishonesty. She does not want to divorce, however she is reluctant to work on our marriage. She says she wants to be friends. She often tells me she loves me, but of course she says she is not in love with me. I hear alot of the typical cliches from her. She has also convinced herself that the bad times in our relationship were much worse than they are and she has made up bad things about our relationship that simply aren't true. She says she has been unhappy for years. After doing some research on affairs, I find that everything she does is typical of someone in her situation. I know she is really upset about the failed pregnancy, and she tells me that my reaction to it was very bad-enough to convince her that she doesn't want kids with me. I don't believe my reaction was bad, we were both definitely scared, but it was over a year ago. She definitely has a drinking problem. She usually drinks two bottles of wine a night. I believe she is very upset about what has happened to us. I love her very much and feel I can definitely forgive her and chalk this up to both of our mistakes, stress and temporary insanity. I am not sure how to proceed.
lovelorcet Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I went through something very similar about a year ago and I am also working on my PhD myself so I also understand the stresses involved with this as well. You have made it clear that you want to fix this. At least at the moment she does not want to and no matter what she says her actions are saying she is not going to fix anything at the moment. My honest opinion would be to cut her off completely. If she moved out then she should stay out till she is ready to work on this with you. Her still seeing the other man is a deal breaker and shows she is not willing to fix anything with you. This is going to sound harsh but just remember the next time you are giving her emotional support and caring for her she maybe off in a few hours to go and bang some other guy. If she really wants to fix things you will know because she will do anything and everything to let you know. Otherwise let her go and keep her away.
lorr Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 The miscarriage must have been upsetting enough and this was the time when the both of you should have come together in this unfortunate crisis and seeked counselling. Although I sympathise with your story. She clearly chose to lie on her back for another man. At the end of the day she was fully aware of what she was doing with him sexually and emotionally. If you and your wife are 110% focused on putting in all the effort and hard work in repairing your marriage then good luck, but if its a case where you seem to be more keen and willing then her, then you've got major problems ahead.
C&M4ever Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Wow, my heart truly goes out to you. Sounds to me like she truly is torn on what to do, and the best way you can help her is by using tough love. I think you should not allow her to come back and forth between you and the other guy. You should put your foot down and lether know you are willing to forgive and move on but only if she is willing to commit to that process 100%. This may seem like its hurting you, but this is the only way you can truly know what she wants..plus if you are not so accessible she will be able to truly access what it is she wants and miss you. The way things are going now she cant truly miss you because you're there on her schedule and you have to cut that off...I hope I said some things that made sense. I wish you the best and hope you all can work this out truly. Good luck!
Ladyjane14 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I am new to the forum. My post is rather long, but I wanted to provide as many details as possible. My wife and I have been together for 12 years married for 4 years. We are both in our mid thirties. We are both educated, I received my Ph.D. three years ago, she will receive hers in April. I want to have a family with her more than anything and I have told her this. In the past two years she has asked me to have children repeatedly. We agreed that we will have children when her graduation is in sight. I feel that she does not believe that we will have children. She has told me that she was unhappy about once a month in the last year. I have asked her why and she has responded either she does not know why or that it has to do with work. Her actions always suggested to me that she was happy. A year ago she had a miscarriage that revealed a large growth on her uterus. We agreed that to increase our fertility we would have surgery to remove the growth. We had the surgery in July. I stood by her and completely supported it. We had been under some stress since she is graduating soon and we have had some problems finding jobs together. I feel that it is her turn for a career, and we had talked alot about leaving where we live and living in the mountains or the beach for the past several years. Near the end of September I was away on business. While I was gone she told me that she had a job prospect in the mountains. I returned home early to tell her that I thought we should pursue this job and that I thought we should use a trip we were planning overseas in late October (a trip of a lifetime) to get pregnant. She responded by telling me that she did not want to have children with me anymore and that she wanted to move out. She asked me to help her with some fieldwork two days later. It was then that she told me that she had been having an emotional affair with someone from work for about a month and had sex with him twice while I was recently out of town. She had been drinking on both occasions. We agreed that we had made alot of mistakes mostly in communication of needs and that we should go to marriage counselor. She agreed to stop seeing him and we agreed to work on bettering ourselves primarily and working on our marriage secondary. We found her a place where she could live nights and weekends, and she could move into after our trip. We continued to sleep, eat, shower, etc together through our trip overseas. Our trip went well, but on the second day she got really upset that nothing had happened to make her fall back in love with me yet during the trip. She said that she expected something to happen. I told her that at this point we might need to try to make something happen rather than wait for it. When we returned she moved out. Until early December she was really upset, usually coming back to our home in the middle of the night to sleep with me and always coming home in the morning to shower with me. She has been really depressed since, often sleeping and drinking all day long. In the meantime I have read several books including, his needs her needs, surviving an affair, not just friends, relationship rescue, men are from mars, codependent no more, dance of connection, 7 principles of making marriage work, women's infiddelity. I am very serious about recovering our marriage. I found out through a mutual friend and her mother that this is indeed about my alleged disinterest in children. I found out that she restarted the affair around new years. Th other man is around thirty, a fellow student who is separating/divorcing his wife and daughter. She continues to call me throughout each day and we see each other daily. She recently told me that she thought the affair was very bad and she wanted to end it. She agreed that it is the source of her depression and dishonesty. She does not want to divorce, however she is reluctant to work on our marriage. She says she wants to be friends. She often tells me she loves me, but of course she says she is not in love with me. I hear alot of the typical cliches from her. She has also convinced herself that the bad times in our relationship were much worse than they are and she has made up bad things about our relationship that simply aren't true. She says she has been unhappy for years. After doing some research on affairs, I find that everything she does is typical of someone in her situation. I know she is really upset about the failed pregnancy, and she tells me that my reaction to it was very bad-enough to convince her that she doesn't want kids with me. I don't believe my reaction was bad, we were both definitely scared, but it was over a year ago. She definitely has a drinking problem. She usually drinks two bottles of wine a night. I believe she is very upset about what has happened to us. I love her very much and feel I can definitely forgive her and chalk this up to both of our mistakes, stress and temporary insanity. I am not sure how to proceed. First off... whew! your post is REALLY difficult to read. You don't need to hit the 'return key' after each line. The program here is just like any other word-processing system and will make your line divisions for you. Next, your wife is still coming to you for EN (Emotional Needs) fulfillment. She's weaning herself away from needing you. You'll make a stronger impact with her if you can show her a more stark contrast between having you in her life and having a life without you. Keeping a boyfriend on the side is incompatible with monogamous marriage. So is being a drunk. Best she has no illusions about that. You said you've read quite a bit, so you'll already know that the WS's (Wayward Spouse) desire for "friendship" is part of the fantasy. It helps them to alleviate some of the guilt in cheating if they can believe that they're still your buddy. And it helps to keep you percolating nicely on the backburner just in case things don't work out with the affair partner too. Dude... real friends don't forcefeed you your own still-beating heart. Call it what it is. Whenever you do, you poke her fantasy bubble with a sharp stick. She can't keep you AND the OM. It's just not gonna happen for her. You seem to have been fairly communicative with her so far. It doesn't seem like she's had a difficult time making her position clear or reasoning with you. If you had been some kind of a*hole with her, I think it might be different, but you haven't said anything that would indicate that you weren't a good partner. I think if it were me, I'd step back and make her carry her own bags for awhile. End contact with her and tell her to give you a call if she ever pulls her head out of her hindquarters. Let her know that you'll be willing to talk IF you haven't already moved on. She'll either sink or swim.... and to be frank with you, she's more likely to "sink". If she doesn't hit rock bottom though and learn NOT to drink and cheat, eventually you're not going to have any use for her. And... you'll be pissing with this affair for a long, long time.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I noticed your thread in another forum. I think maybe you're giving your wife a little too much latitude on her personal issues. Her desire to "work on the issues individually and THEN work on the marriage"... is just a thinly disguised effort on her part in obtaining your permission to explore the affair. I'm sorry... but cheaters will say ANYTHING to keep getting their "fix". With that in mind, it's a mistake to take them at their word. The chemical responses within the body are similar to what they'd be getting if they were using cocaine. Whenever they have contact with the affair partner, or even indulge in obsessive thoughts about the affair partner, the addiction is FED. Coupled with her alcohol abuse, I'd say the most likely culprits for the marital crisis are depression and anxiety. Taken together, the behaviors seem to be 'self-medicating'. Of course, I'm not a medical professional and she'd need proper diagnosis and treatment in order to resolve the problems. Trouble is... YOU can't do it for her. She has to select it for herself. Oftentimes, folks won't do that until their other choices are eliminated. Even as messed up as she is... on some level, she's GOT to know that you two are stronger together than you are apart. What that should tell you is that she considers YOU to be part of the problem. And you need to ask yourself 'why'. I'd say it's because your presence right now is keeping her from doing what she most want to do.... which is to continue feeding her addictions. Anyway, as far as "Plan A" goes, if you feel like you've ALREADY done a strong one, you're just burning daylight in doing more. If you decide there's room for improvement in what you've been doing as a partner, then by all means.. go ahead. But if I were you, I'd keep it REALLY short and then move on to "Plan B". Bear in mind... you can't reason with unreasonable people. And alcoholics aren't all that "reasonable". The advice to seek guidance with Al Anon is good. I think I'd look into that if I were you. You're going to need to set some really firm boundaries and that kind of support might be just the ticket to help you in keeping your gumption up. On the issue of "Exposure".... I personally don't advocate it to the the degree that's commonly recommended in other places. That's why I post HERE and not there anymore. I think there are some who would use it as a punishment, rather than a tool. To my mind, it's a double-edged sword that can cut the betrayed spouse just as deeply as it cuts the WS. You can't go around as some do, behaving in a manner more befitting to Chicken Little crying out that "the sky is falling". If you ever get into the recovery phase, too much exposure can bite you on the butt. The danger is that sometimes in an effort to drag the affair out into the daylight, we end up telling more people than we really needed to. The selectees should always be people who are likely to bring gentle pressure to the adulterers. Exposing your wife's dirty laundry to the general public is, in some ways, also a betrayal. It's not ministering to her in kindness. Further, I don't think it makes a betrayed spouse look especially sympathetic should the case come to court. In extreme cases, it gives the appearance of stalking and harrassment, making the BS look rather like a NUT. All that said, in the right hands, applied to just the right areas.... 'Exposure' becomes a scalpel, cutting the cancer out of your marriage. Use it with care is all I'm saying.
whichwayisup Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Just wondering if the OM is actually really 'leaving his wife and child' or if that is just a line to keep her interested. Different story if he's divorced already... LJ is right, she needs to hit rock bottom and feel some of the consquences of her actions and choices. You being there, a part of her life still is allowing her to continue her affair, not even TRY to get over the fantasy feelings she has for this other man... She won't feel for you what she feels for him. That new crush and intense feeling...She just got addicted to those feelings he has brought out in her, and not seeing or talking to the OM is what could be depressing her more, she's having withdrawal. She has to stop drinking, go to AA, get some one on one counselling in before you two can even attempt to fix the marriage and go to MC (marriage counselling) together. Good luck, keep posting.
riobikini Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 re: LJ: " Next, your wife is still coming to you for EN (Emotional Needs) fulfillment. She's weaning herself away from needing you. You'll make a stronger impact with her if you can show her a more stark contrast between having you in her life and having a life without you. Keeping a boyfriend on the side is incompatible with monogamous marriage. So is being a drunk. Best she has no illusions about that." Kyle_c, I think LJ is completely on the money with the above statement -especially the one I emboldened. And, unfortunately, sadly- it doesn't sound like your wife is ready to accept counseling of any kind. Side observation: far too often in relationships formed while two people are continuing higher education, there is this "finish-line stretch" that is just so difficult to get through. It's a patch of ground that's so full of stress, and a "let-down" effect coming directly from having had to wait so long to get to this point at the near-end of all the academic effort through the years. (Kind of like being in the center of a huge parade with horns blaring and then nothing -silence.) It's mixed with the excitement of the impending end of certain pressures and the high expectations of others. It's a time that's ripe for all the possibilities of change. And it can create a a sea of havoc in a relationship: it magnifies whatever problems you have -or have had in the past. You want the wings you've earned with all your accomplishments -and you may feel as if (during the "bearing with it" part of all those years) you have also earned the "right" to explore a relationship that seems to "fit" better. I believe that no one should make drastic decisions or "throw away" a relationship based simply on the very confusing emotions and stressful circumstances during this period -but many do. It takes alot of strength, true commitment -and love- from *both* partners to wade through this storm and remain together. Kyle, you and your wife have had a couple of very heartbreaking experiences, already, that didn't seem to receive healing (a miscarriage and an affair -not to mention a scarey surgery). Those experiences -on one hand- could have made your relationship stronger, but in a fateful twist they only created more damage. I think LadyJane's previous post was a full of good advice and suggestions. I think -out of all the positive, right steps to make at this point, her's is sound matter. I wish you the very best! Take care. -Rio
Guest Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Thanks for all your input. It is all mostly what I thought I would hear. I am torn about exposing. But I am going to cut financial ties and limit contact with her for now. To be honest most of the drinking has occurred since the separation, along with most of the depression. Ladyjane, thanks for your input. It makes alot of sense. I will get back here as soon as I have some news.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 I found out through a mutual friend and her mother that this is indeed about my alleged disinterest in children. Nope. She's got you buffaloed. It's about her untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety.... and her affair. Unless you specifically said to her... "You and I can NEVER have children together", she doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one. I think you'd be wise to insist on the boundaries that WWIU has mentioned before you consider taking her back into your home.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Side observation: far too often in relationships formed while two people are continuing higher education, there is this "finish-line stretch" that is just so difficult to get through. It's a patch of ground that's so full of stress, and a "let-down" effect coming directly from having had to wait so long to get to this point at the near-end of all the academic effort through the years. (Kind of like being in the center of a huge parade with horns blaring and then nothing -silence.) It's mixed with the excitement of the impending end of certain pressures and the high expectations of others. It's a time that's ripe for all the possibilities of change. Cool use of the old bean, Rio. I'd have never thought of "getting to the finish-line" on higher education as a stress-point in long-term relationships. One usually thinks of starting a family or dealing with aging parents and that sort of thing. But that makes alot of sense.
polywog Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 kyle, I just read this thread, and first of all my heart goes out to you. The advice you have been given is first rate, but I want to stress *stress* that I think you need to check out ALAnon as others have suggested here, and perhaps also Codapendents Anonamous. I have done both. It is one thing to read books about this stuff, but quite another to share in the company of others who are dealing with the same thing...healing. I am not someone who likes organised or group activities, so it was a really big deal for me to go to my first CODA meeting. I have never been crazy about the "God" part of 12 step programs for one thing, an excuse many people use for not trying. My therapist was the one who suggested it, and knowing I would be skeptical, she siad "just sit near the door and if you don't like it, just leave". Then she suggested that I try to attend 6 meetings and if I didn't think it was for me just to not go anymore...nothing lost but about 6 hours of my life. The first time I went to a meeting I thought I was going to pass out with nervousness, but I stuck through it, and have been grateful for the meetings I went to ever since (I don't go anymore, tho it is an option I see for myself). Anyhow, this has been a long-ish post, and sorry to go on about my experience, but just want you to feel encouraged to try this out if you hadn't considered it strongly. polywog
Mz. Pixie Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Nope. She's got you buffaloed. It's about her untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety.... and her affair. Unless you specifically said to her... "You and I can NEVER have children together", she doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one. This is spot on. They always want to blame it on something and this is just what she's using to do so. By the way Kyle- I should know- I've been a cheating spouse. She's telling herself and everyone else it's about that, but deep down she knows it's not. The only way a wayward spouse can stomach what they do to their BS is for them to rewrite the entire history of the relationship painting the BS, in this case you, in a bad light. Was your wife perhaps sexually abused growing up??? What was her relationship with her father??
bklk1227 Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Kyle, I am going through a similar situation as my wife of 4 years is currently in an emotional affair. She to has rewritten the history of our lives together and paints quite a wicked picture of where we came from. We are in the process of separating. The advice you are getting from the people here is right on. You have to take a definitive approach in this situation and let her know that she cannot have it both ways. Be strong, let her know that your life will go on with or without her through your actions. Good luck and use the time apart to understand yourself and where you want to be. Also, be thankful that this happened BEFORE there were children involved... Take care, B
Sup Posted January 16, 2007 Posted January 16, 2007 Nope. She's got you buffaloed. It's about her untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety.... and her affair. Unless you specifically said to her... "You and I can NEVER have children together", she doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one. I think you'd be wise to insist on the boundaries that WWIU has mentioned before you consider taking her back into your home. I agree, and that comment about being disinterested in having children is a crappy cop out if I ever heard one, man, lose this woman.
Author kyle_c Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 Thanks for all of your replies, especially LJ and Rio. Her drinking has really only been bad since the separation, before it was not an issue. I agree that it just fuels the other addictions. It is amazing how crazy she has become in no time at all. The OM is a former aquaintance, not a good one, but he is separated and divorcing/divorced. I agree that she has manipulated me into staying close to her. That will end; I am going to make a firm stand. I really appreciate all the advice. It is so hard to know what is going on having never faced this before. I spoke with our therapist today and he says the only way she is going to come out of this is when she hits rock bottom. I think she really needs it. Pixie- my wife was a victim of date rape in her teens and a molestation by a politician neighbor when she was quite young. She recently ( a year or so ago ) remembered this. She has a good family and her relationship with her father is very good. By the way I am rethinking exposure. I have told my close friends and family about it. I think if her parents knew it would devastate her. She considered doing it months ago and I talked her out of it. One of the reasons I considered it is that I saw a mutual friend over the weekend and she said she heard from a friend that my wife had just started dating someone. Another lie--she just started dating Mr Wonderful, months after separating from horrible me. I set our friend straight but how many people has she told this to? Thanks again. And I will let you know what happens.
tweldy Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 So reading your story I paint this picture: Stress from school and job hunting hurts your marriage. You do not between you have the skills to cope with the level of stress you are experiencing. You wife has a miscarriage, a surgery, and PHD research to deal with and your job hunt and wrapping up your PHD are crippling your ability to be there for her as much as she needs at this time. This is a lot of stress, more than many, perhaps most, people are capable of dealing with. Because she does not have the tools to cope with the stress, she turns to drinking. The affair is incidental at this point - you are already in a death sprial if nothing changes. Three things need to happen for this situation to be salvagable: 1. She needs to quit drinking 2. She needs to end the affair 3. You need to preserve whatever love you still have for her I would advise breaking off contact utterly and totally with her until she is willing to leave her lover and go into rehab. I can't imagine anything else you can do to break the cycle - she has to see the miserable lie her life is becoming to be scared enough to turn it around. After rehab she will need to catch up on several years of maturing. Basically her emotional maturation ended when she started drinking more than a couple drinks per day. If you want to get back together with her it will be very hard on your. It will take her a long time to heal and you will wait a long time for her to be able to express remorse for the affair. This interim period will be a dark period in your life. I do not envy you and I am sorry for what you have gone through and what you're going to go through.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I agree that she has manipulated me into staying close to her. That will end; I am going to make a firm stand. You've been dealing with this for several months already. And I think you've likely experienced that "knee-jerk" reaction to "fix it" that alot of betrayed spouses go through. This is something a wayward can REALLY use to her advantage. Now, I know that sounds like she's 'plotting'. Most of them don't have that much on the ball, to be honest. But the dynamics end up being the same. It keeps the betrayed spouse bogged down in a state of limbo. You've read alot of information geared to save the marriage, but now that some time has passed... I'm curious to know if you've ever considered with any REAL seriousness, the idea of leaving it behind. (????) You know, you are NOT at any obligation to continue. When your wife willfully changed the parameters of your marital agreement... in essence, she voided the contract. Emotionally, you owe her nothing. You can walk away today and never look back, if it suits YOU to do so. The reason I ask, is that it's empowering to know that you have more control of the situation than what you might have otherwise thought. And if you stop for a minute and FEEL the power ... it goes a long way toward alleviating some of the fear. Betrayed spouses are often terrified of making a wrong move. They're walking on eggshells, certain that if they don't handle things just right, they're going to lose the relationship. When you recognize that the relationship, as you knew it, is ALREADY over... you're back in the driver's seat. The WS often imagines that they have a choice between two lovers, but that's just another fantasy. In reality, the only way she has that particular choice... is if YOU allow it. My husband and I have been together for 25 years. In all that time, neither of us has been physically intimate with someone else. Even at the height of our marital crisis... he stopped short of physical contact with another woman. The reason for that is that we're both "old school" on the issue. If he'd 'gone there', he might as well have signed the divorce papers. The outcome would've been the same, guaranteed. And vice versa. This is understood in our relationship. There is a policy of non-tolerance. And it's kept us both from underestimating the decision to cheat. You can't dance if you can't afford to pay the band, right? Anyway, think it over. Personally, I'm not a 'marriage-at-all-costs' kind of person. You've got 12 years invested, that's true. And it would be hard for you to emotionally separate yourself from your wife. That said, it's even harder when you have a housefull of kids to think about and you find yourself back in the soup with your partner 'flaked out' again. This girl is going to have to EARN her way back, and if she can't do that, you'll never be able to fully trust her. So, making it easy on her shouldn't be a consideration at this point. By the way I am rethinking exposure. I have told my close friends and family about it. I think if her parents knew it would devastate her. She considered doing it months ago and I talked her out of it. One of the reasons I considered it is that I saw a mutual friend over the weekend and she said she heard from a friend that my wife had just started dating someone. Another lie--she just started dating Mr Wonderful, months after separating from horrible me. I set our friend straight but how many people has she told this to? The matter of 'exposure' is entirely up to you. I don't believe in supporting dishonesty, so I think you did the right thing in straightening your friend out. If your WW is going to outright LIE to people, she deserves the consequence of the truth being told if you ask me. I don't want to discourage you from 'exposure'. I just want you to handle it with care. For example, in my case, I was dealing with an EA. My husband was searching for emotional connection he felt was lacking in the marriage. If I had selected "scorch the earth" exposure... I'd have just proved his point for him. And later on when reconciliation was well underway, I would have damaged the rather fragile trust we were just beginning to rebuild. In some cases, BOTH partners have to relearn trust, not just the betrayed spouse. In cases where the betrayed spouse hasn't been meeting ENs properly, I can see how the WS would be wary of reengaging. That was our particular situation. Neither of us had been prioritizing our partner's ENs. Initially, I informed my own family and close friends, much as you have. This is our support network afterall and in times of crisis we NEED these people. But I did NOT inform my husband's family. Should we have gone to divorce, I dunno ... I probably would have straightened them out. I've grown close to them over the years, and I would hate for them to believe that my decision would be an arbitrary one. As things stood though, we had made an early decision to reconcile, so I only insisted that he tell two of his closest male friends. I felt like he needed to unburden himself and get some emotional support too. This worked out well for us in the most part. But.. I STILL had to go back and deal with my family. They were mighty peeved on my behalf, and I finally had to get rather firm about it and order them to 'stand down'. I think when it's all said and done, the best thing to do is to weigh your decision carefully about who you expose to and what you hope to accomplish in doing it. I can tell you without hesitation though, that in your shoes... I'd have certainly had a chat with OM's wife by now. If for no other reason than to check my WS's story and make sure I was dealing with the facts.
BeenAround_N_Back Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 ITA that it is a good thing that this is happening before children are involved... maybe it wasn't mean to be.... good luck.
Salicious Crumb Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 This is an easy one, you do not have kids with her. So divorce her. Move on with your life. The years are coming on fast...so why waste them with a cheater? Believe me, the last thing you want to do is have kids with this woman and find out later that she cannot stop cheating. Divorce her and move on. You deserve better.
Flyin in Clouds Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 .... We are both educated, I received my Ph.D. three years ago, she will receive hers in April. ... ....It was then that she told me that she had been having an emotional affair with someone from work for about a month and had sex with him twice while I was recently out of town. ....we agreed to work on bettering ourselves primarily and working on our marriage secondary. .... I found out that she restarted the affair around new years. ... I love her very much and feel I can definitely forgive her and chalk this up to both of our mistakes, stress and temporary insanity. I am not sure how to proceed. You know being "educated" is no subsistute for intelligence. Or moral decency. Why on earth do you want to stay with this slut? Just because you have some history? She's made a fool of you. Tell you what. Go find a another woman and have an affair of your own. You'll feel better. Then you can decide if your wife is really the only woman you can love or if there are others out there that might be better for you. Until you have that affair you will never be clear of the fog this woman has placed in your head. OK? You are acting like a love sick puppy. And love does make fools of people. Oh, and next time you might want to put your marriage first and foremost instead of "secondary". Everyone telling you to go to MC, fix it up, blah, blah, blah... Forget it. Leave her, move on. She made her bed she can lie in it. If she doesn't want to be in your bed, why would you want her? Come on man. Wake up. How in the world can you save this relationship? Do you think you'll forget this years from now? It will all be in the past? If you do fix things up temporarily, what will you do when your wife falls off the wagon again, has another affair because she's "unhappy" or "confused" or "whatever"... Then you'll have wasted your life with a woman that never really loved you to begin with. Life is too short for that. What if your wife just turns cold and you're feeling a little unloved and some hot younger PhD sutdent shows up and then you start having feelings for this new woman? You'll remember your wife did, so why not you. Sorry the best thing is a clean break. It's tough to start over but "all the kings men and all the kings horse" can't fix this. Things will never be the same between you. But since you've put up with it this far, I guess you don't have much self respect. Remember it's all around town that she made you a cuckold.
Flyin in Clouds Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 KC, apparently old 2long is one of those love made a fool of, old 2long is guy that stayed with a woman that cheated on him. Fine if that's what he wants to do with his life. But he's wrong about the moral equivelancy of your having an affair being the same as your wife's. It's not the same thing at all. It is the difference between murder and killing in self defense, that later be completely justified. Your wife broke the vows you two made, so there is no longer an obligation on your part to keep them. If you want to make it nice and legal divorce her first. But for pete's sake don't let her be the only one in your marriage to enjoy sex with a different partner. I don't know how old 2long deals with that nasty thought, or his inferiority to the OM, or his being a cuckold, or how you would deal with those, but simply claiming to be "morally superior" to your wife for the rest of your life is hardly as rewarding has the pleasure of a woman. But 2long is right about something else. If you do have your own affair then you can no longer "complain", i.e. throw it into your wife's face, about her affair and that would be a good thing. Since you will both be "equals" again, sexually, morally, both having violated your vows, you will have a level playing field to start rebuilding your marriage from. If you don't, you can claim to be morally superior, possesing more personal integrity than your wife, knowing that she has more knotches in her bed post than you. If you can live with that, fine. Not something I'd even consider. If my wife had an affair, then turned around and expected me to remain faithful to her I'd wonder what kind of hypocrite she was as well as a liar and cheater. She'd expect forgiveness for her "little mistake", but I couldn't expect the same forgiveness for my little "mistakes"? Naw, sorry that kind of inequality in a relationship doesn't work for me. Good luck.
lovelorcet Posted January 22, 2007 Posted January 22, 2007 Flyin in Clouds seems to have a talent in offering bunk advise... Do not go out and play with another chick at the moment it will only cause you more problems...
silktricks Posted January 23, 2007 Posted January 23, 2007 Don't have an affair, but DO think long and hard about the possibility that you may need to exorcise your wife from your life.
tweldy Posted January 24, 2007 Posted January 24, 2007 Flyin in Clouds, I understand feeling the way you do, but perhaps I can offer a perspective, if you're willing to read my post, that will be of help to you. You believe that having an affair is immoral. You believe that someone else having an affair would cause you to have an affair as a form of revenge. By allowing the immoral actions of another the power of possibly driving you to immoral actions, you have surrendered you ability to do what is right to other(s). Clearly you have been hurt, possibly badly, possibly much worse than many people here sometime in your past. Your power over your own life has been taken from you. It is time to take it back. I wish you luck.
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