Update

[Romeo Must Die]

Yeah her testing you is putting a gun to your head, but shes also liable to put the gun to her own head and pull the trigger. Bang. Just to end the pain. To see if you are real if you are serious or playing her like that. This is your cue to step up and take her in her arms and tell her you are not leaving her and wont let her leave you. How close she is to your heart and pull her closer. Hold her tight.

 

[Hard2Think]

RMD and NoIDidn't;

 

Your posts reflect pretty accurately what my wife has expressed as her concerns.

 

This past weekend was rather interesting. My wife and my daughter when on a weekend long field trip with the school, so my 9 year old son and I were alone for a few days. I felt so great. So liberated. We went out and did a bunch of things together. Went on long bike rides, played soccer in the park, ate out at neighborhood pizza joints, played multiplayer video games, etc. When it was Sunday, we knew my wife was coming back .. and oddly enough, my son expressed a wish that they would stay away longer. I asked him why. He expressed that he feels a little stressed out with my wife. I know he loves her very much and she is very good to him. But she tends to bark orders and is very critical with all of us. I only saw it when she did it with me. But I was surprised to see how my son was feeling the same thing. He also expressed displeasure at the way she talks to me. He imitated her barking orders at me as well.

 

I was stunned. He's a very happy kid, always smiling and laughing. I had no idea he was stressed out by her.In the past, my daughter has said the same things to me. The stress levels in the house go way down when my wife is gone and go way up when she comes up. I just thought it was just me feeling these effects given that I take the biggest brunt of it.

 

At the same time, my wife kept calling me and tried taking back her divorce declaration. But frankly - I'm getting sick of the whole thing. When she got back Sunday night, we had a long discussion about this. I didn't mention what my son said - and I don't know that I will, either. But it did give me hope that if we indeed do divorce, the kids may actually no be worse off for it. They may need a safe haven to go to every so often.

 

In our discussion, I acknowledged her concerns about not trusting me. I understand that perfectly. But I understand less her unwillingness to change anything for the better in the marriage. She tried to tell me that this is "just the way I am". She said that she wasn't sure she was going to be able to make me a priority in her life, nor expend the effort she thinks I want her to .. but she still wants us to stay together.

 

So I offered that we'll stay together, but I'll put her as low on my priority list as I am on hers. She didn't like that idea. So I can see that she's struggling with the idea of actually having to be part of a real couple. I'm refusing the role of indentured servant. We've come to no resolution yet, but I'm giving it a month tops. At that point, one of us needs to make a decision one way or the other.

[Romeo Must Die]

Then I guess I am just talking to a fool FWS. Shoulda known, player. You should probably take this to the divorce forum since you and your nine year old have got it all figured out. It's all BS's fault, as usual. Reconcilliation takes alot of work and alot less pride.

 

BTW, Dude, never EVER take legal advice from a nine year old. Just my advice.

 

What about at night? Did you miss her body and all her charms? Does she contribute nothing to these children? Who was watching them when you had your affair?

 

Six months (ha!) youre novices at the game. Six months is a gesture. Six months is a heart shaped box filled with promises. You're still playing in the sandbox at this stage. That isnt reconcilliation. A true reconciller would move mountains to be with his wife. A real man, a real FWS would let this little sh*it bounce off him like rubber bullets. My husband let the photo albums bounce off him like it was nothing. lol. No, kidding aside, he let me vent. He didnt blame me for failing him. He didnt quit. He didnt go running for the OW and I quit throwing things at him and called a truce.

 

[Hard2Think]

So, how long did it take before you stopped throwing things at your spouse?

[Romeo Must Die]

When you can open up to her pain she can begin to open up to yours.

 

Yes, the WS/FWS hurt too!

 

Give her a strong shoulder to lean on. Baby her with tenderness and warmth. Be her father figure. Her universe. Her moon and her sun. Night and day, eternally. Do not give up easily. Youre tougher than that.

 

Her biggest monster to concor is her fear. Not you. Her fear.

 

Both of our biggest fears for me and my FWS were one of us leaving the other. How comical, huh? Like us, you are also two very messed up people going through a very hard time in your lives. Oh gosh, we made lots of mistakes. Too many to count. We struggled and we cried and we fought because it's what we wanted. To make it. It was our second chance and we were going to have to earn it. It wasnt handed to us in a pretty box.

 

If you reject her now, she will only reject you in turn to protect herself. She will mirror what you do, just to disguise her pain. You feel rejected and so does she, cause she isnt handling this right. How does one handle this, exactly? Baby steps. One day at a time.

 

Of course you can give up, and lock yourself down emotionally to protect yourself as well. Its only human nature, but nothing would have been resoved by running away from your problems.

 

She has to let it this out, she has to express her fears and face them, so it's not sitting inside her, growing like a monster.

 

You know little kids test their parents all the time. I'm sure your 9 year old will leave his fruit roll up wrappers in his room and maybe BW is just too tired to pick them up at the end of the day. The kids needs to contribute to her healing and the families well being. Carry their own weight. Not every weekend is recreation parks, pizza and rollerskating. If I could go play every weekend when I was a kid, I would want to stay in that place forever too.

 

The kids need their famiy life, a mom and a dad. They dont need playgrounds except for some excersize and fresh air but the family is their lives. They'll never have a stable life being uprooted all the time and changing the players. They wont get attached or put down roots and memories and a life. They'll lock themselves down emotionally too. They'll never want to get close to anybody for fear of being hurt.

 

[Mz. Pixie]

But I understand less her unwillingness to change anything for the better in the marriage. She tried to tell me that this is "just the way I am". She said that she wasn't sure she was going to be able to make me a priority in her life, nor expend the effort she thinks I want her to .. but she still wants us to stay together.

 

 

It's almost like she's trying to punish you by not wanting to work on the marriage.

 

Romeo-

Did you read H2T's other thread???

 

This marriage was bad before the affair- he's tried to take responsbility for his actions and has really stepped up to the plate in that area. But seriously when his love bank is very low and she just keeps heaping it on- when it would take so little from her to turn things around- you cannot blame him for being frustrated.

 

It took both of their actions to get where they are now, not just his.

[silktricks]

Hi H2T. Sorry things aren't working better for you. As LJ said, it takes about two years to get over infidelity. The problem is that it's important to get to what caused the infidelity in the first place. Your wife's attitude of "this is just the way I am" isn't encouraging for fixing the marriage - the whole marriage, not just the infidelity part.

 

At the same time, it seems pretty clear that you have wanted this marriage to work out and that you do love your wife. She still needs to work through the infidelity part, but that doesn't mean that she can opt into the "that's just the way I am" about things that she needs to fix. It was your fault for cheating, but that doesn't mean that everything in the marriage that is wrong is your fault and that she can sit back and say - "well you did it to me, you fix it." As with most, you folks did it to each other

 

Though I don't agree with much of what FIC said, it is true that she needs to make up her mind - being aware that while she's dithering about meeting your needs, you have a mind as well. You cannot simply be her yo-yo, coming and going at her confusion, and though you cheated on her, she is not the only person who has been experiencing pain in the relationship.

 

The relationship itself is what was having the problems. And it must be fixed by both of you if it can be fixed. Best of luck. I hope things work for you.

[Romeo Must Die]

I'm not blaming him for being frustrated. Its expected he will be frustrated. R is hard work. It's an excorsizm. It will leave you feeling weak and half like giving up, but you have to do the work to get the prize.

 

The BW also needs a support system and a plan to make the steps to work on her issues. That is not going to happen if FWS gives up. But recognize that FWS had an outlet and he got alot of his aggresssions off the OW (his therapist) whereas the BW never have that option.

 

A good marriage is always under construction. R is a hard hat area. Beware of falling and/or flying objects : )

 

[Karma24]

I'm surprised by the responses to your post. There seems to be an underlying pity vibe for you. WTF? Your wife may not have been a very good one (by your standards), but at least she didn't cheat. Unless I have misunderstood your situation.

 

I have been both the WS (former husband) and the BS (current husband) so I feel that I have good insight as to what motivates someone to cheat.

 

She stayed married to you for some reason (pre-affair) and if you think it was just for the kids' sake I would think that if she were truly, truly unhappy she would have left you regardless.

 

Maybe you did all those little nice things for her because deep down inside you know what an intolerable a$$ you are to be in a relationship with. Perhaps you felt that she deserved your kind treatment because you know that she really does love you and you can't return the same feelings.

 

Who knows if she is testing or really serious and if your relationship will work out? But I definitely identify with what she is going through and as I'm sure you already know it is your fault. As a matter of fact, do her a favor and initiate the divorce and set her free.

[whichwayisup]

You know, maybe you should go read ALL his posts from the past, that way you have SOME sort of insight into his situation, instead of just saying AFFAIR, YOUR FAULT - DIVORCE.

 

You don't know his full story and if you did, you wouldn't be posting the above.

 

He has admitted his failures that contributed to the failing of the marriage, and his choice to cheat. There's more than just meets the eye, so go back and read his original posts.

 

Beating up on him right now isn't helping, maybe GIVE advice that could HELP him.

[Karma24]

First, I'm not impressed by your 17 million posts, mmk? Why do you assume I didn't read the posts?? I have been lurking for months. I DID give advice. I said set the poor woman free instead of letting her wrestle with "do I divorce him or not?" Why let the responsibility fall on HER? I feel for the woman.

 

I am not perfect. I said I have cheated. I pay for and obsess over it every day. I have children. I live with the horrible guilt over what I did and I hate myself. I initiated the divorce because my husband deserved better than what I could give him. I set him free. THAT is love. I did not wait around professing how sorry I was and then say "well, the decision is up to you." That's BS.

[Scrivdog]

Karma,

What a kindhearted person you are to cheat and then let your husband free! Wow. That is impressive. I know there are others out there who may say that you did this out of guilt and because you were too chicken to own your actions and make things work.

 

But not me. I know you did this because you're a kind person. Kind of like Mother Teresa

First, I'm not impressed by your 17 million posts, mmk? Why do you assume I didn't read the posts?? I have been lurking for months. I DID give advice. I said set the poor woman free instead of letting her wrestle with "do I divorce him or not?" Why let the responsibility fall on HER? I feel for the woman.

 

I am not perfect. I said I have cheated. I pay for and obsess over it every day. I have children. I live with the horrible guilt over what I did and I hate myself. I initiated the divorce because my husband deserved better than what I could give him. I set him free. THAT is love. I did not wait around professing how sorry I was and then say "well, the decision is up to you." That's BS.

[Karma24]

I am NOT a kindhearted person! I KNOW that. That's why I set my husband free. He was way too good for me. I am flawed for whatever reason. It may be from watching my parents struggle through their ridiculous marriage for 40 years.

 

In my OPINION I feel that when someone cheats there is something so wrong with the relationship it is not repairable. It may be the dynamic between the two people together or maybe, just maybe, one or both people is just too messed up to ever have a healthy relationship. So what can you do? Live in denial for the rest of your lives? Or do the sane thing and end it...

[IpAncA]

I did read your previous posts a while back and seems to me like your still in the same position you were in months ago. Sure this takes time but this isn't going anywhere. Your not happy, she's not happy, etc...

 

To be honest I don't really see much coming from this unless she trys to work this out with you. She's not even in IC or MC. I know you said that she was but didn't she cancel it? So how is this going to get better? Over time? I don't see how it can. She has to do her part too.

 

Your frustrated because you want to work this out and she's going emotionally all over the place.

 

This whole situation has affected you both but now it's filtering down on to other people.

 

I'm just wondering how much of this your both willing to take before anything comes of this?

[Hard2Think]

Folks - take it easy! If I've learned anything, it's that this is a highly charged subject to discuss. Particularly in a room with people who have been on one side of the fence or another.

 

Karma has been on both..! So while I disagree with her assessment of the situation, I'll always listen to what she has to say. She's certainly earned that right.

 

Karma, to say that I was being nice to my wife because I was otherwise as ass is a gratuitous assumption which happens to be baseless. Maybe I'm an ass, but I don't see it and she's never made that complaint. I'm not perfect by any means - and I never was. But I don't think I ever deserved the treatment I got during the marriage.

 

The A was wrong and I'm sorry I did it. Unfortunately the A gave me a very weak position from which to negotiate the marriage. But I was on the way out anyway. Ironically, had the OW not come to my door - I'm pretty sure I would have eventually left. And I hate to even say this, but had it not been for OW outing us, I think my wife never would have been willing to engage in dialogue about the marriage. It was a wakeup call for me as well as her.

 

I don't know where this will all end - but anything that wasn't what existed before the A can only be a good thing. If she wants out, she can do that.

[Hard2Think]

IPnCa,

 

Yes, I agree with you. It seems like we take a few steps forward then a few steps back , and so on.

 

That's why I'm giving it another month. Otherwise I can see I'll still be in the doghouse and she'll still be in pain years from now.

[whichwayisup]

H2T, do you have PM access yet? Check your profile and see if it's enabled.

[Hard2Think]

Looks like it is, yes.

 

H2T, do you have PM access yet? Check your profile and see if it's enabled.

[whichwayisup]

First, I'm not impressed by your 17 million posts, mmk? Why do you assume I didn't read the posts?? I have been lurking for months. I DID give advice. I said set the poor woman free instead of letting her wrestle with "do I divorce him or not?" Why let the responsibility fall on HER? I feel for the woman.

 

I am not perfect. I said I have cheated. I pay for and obsess over it every day. I have children. I live with the horrible guilt over what I did and I hate myself. I initiated the divorce because my husband deserved better than what I could give him. I set him free. THAT is love. I did not wait around professing how sorry I was and then say "well, the decision is up to you." That's BS.

 

This isn't about you and your personal life, I didn't personally attack you. - I was just referring to H2T's situation. You just seemed to have missed some parts of his life story about his wife and her treatment of him when his dad was dying, how she was back then..Before the affair. That's all.

[IpAncA]

IPnCa,

 

Yes, I agree with you. It seems like we take a few steps forward then a few steps back , and so on.

 

That's why I'm giving it another month. Otherwise I can see I'll still be in the doghouse and she'll still be in pain years from now.

You know I like seeing couples work out their problems. I really do. I'm not a fan of divorce but in all reality I think the problems going on pushed your relationship to the limit and the affair pushed it over.

 

Others may disagree with me but that's the way I see it.

 

The only thing I can suggest is to try talking to her again. Yes I know you have and are frustrated but one more time isn't going to hurt. Who knows maybe she will come around this time.

 

Good luck.

[Karma24]

Karma, to say that I was being nice to my wife because I was otherwise as ass is a gratuitous assumption which happens to be baseless. Maybe I'm an ass, but I don't see it and she's never made that complaint. I'm not perfect by any means - and I never was. But I don't think I ever deserved the treatment I got during the marriage.

 

I appreciate that you were able to see that I posted based on the fact that I have been both the BS and WS. I was trying to say that I know how it feels either way.

 

It's possible your wife never came right out and said, "Dude, you're an ass!" and instead chose the passive-aggresive route to say it for her. Obviously I don't know you personally...it just seems that there is some sort of arrogance surrounding you. I get that from your posts.

 

I cheated on and divorced the sweetest man ever, who I still (thank God) have a decent, platonic relationship with. Now, of course, I am married to the complete opposite of him; an emotionally unavailable alpha male who won't LET me do nice things for him ("I'm not a two year old," he says. No duh. I love you, that's why I do it. Jerk.). But this is what I wanted apparently! Yay for me! A man who had another woman over to our house to "hang out" while I was seven months pregnant and working a 12 hour shift overnight.

 

Needless to say, we are in counseling to find out why this happened. I can only only conclude that it's because he is not in love with me. I would never cheat on him. Why did I hurt the good guy?

 

My whole point in all of this? Maybe your wife felt like you would not LET her love you, much in the way I feel like my husband won't. I'm sorry about the pain of losing your father. Did you let your wife be strong for you? Did she know that YOU appreciated and cherished the things she did for you? If not, she may have just given up.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm largely in agreement with Romeo in the idea that six months is still 'early days'. That said, I don't think you'll be able to go on indefinitely either. I think your love bank will be depleted beyond repair if you don't take some action to protect your reserves.

 

Forgive me... but I can't remember, if you're doing any counseling on your own right now, H2T. If not, perhaps getting into some marriage-based counseling on your own might be a good idea, "a positive action that will help protect your reserves". It seems to me like you could use more support than what you're getting at home. Unfortunately, not all counselors are equal though. I believe you'd be ill-served by one who couldn't prioritize the marital relationship.

 

I honestly do believe that you love your wife, regardless of the fact that she's been uncooperative in alot of ways. It would've been soooo easy for you to walk, but you didn't. There's just got to be a REASON for that.

You don't seem to be a particularly stupid man, so there must be something wonderful in her character that keeps you hanging in there.

 

Whatever that something is... I think it's probably worth going another six months for. If you're still getting NOTHING in the way of proactive recovery at the one-year mark, then it'll probably be time to reevaluate. Mind you, I'm not talking "full recovery" in one year, I'm just talking about her efforting the problem.

 

In the meantime, I think you'd accomplish two things in going it alone to marriage therapy. One, you show your wife that you're serious about your committment. Two, you get some support in coping with communications issues and dearth of affection.

 

Romeo lays it on out there ... but she's right. You two are BOTH scared to death that the other is going to bail. Addressing that fear is JOB ONE.

 

MzPixie and Silktricks are right too. Your wife is going to have to get onboard at some point and address the pre-affair marital problems. But there's middle ground to be had in all this.... I think maybe you could look at the investment of one year fire-fighting the fallout of infidelity as a worthy expenditure of your time. You can't change the past, but if it all goes to pot, you'll at least have the satisfaction of knowing you did the best you could, and you won't have to live with the idea that you didn't do enough to rectify your mistake.

 

In the interim, I think you're doing the right thing by allowing her to explore the divorce option occasionally. You handled the last one beautifully. You made your preferences known, but by not fighting her on it.... you allowed her to make it REAL enough that she thought better of it.

 

Hang in there buddy. It might not seem like it on some days, but you're doing okay.

[Ladyjane14]

I also agree with Romeo that there's something positive to be had in showcasing your parenting potential..... the fun times with the kids as well as supportive discipline.

 

One of the BIGGEST emotional needs you can fulfill for a woman with children is 'positive parenting'. You have a leg-up on any other potential mate in that YOU are the natural father. Your wife is going to put you through your paces, that's true. She's going to challenge you. Afterall, she's still mad. But if you rise to the occasion, you will fulfill one of her chief ENs in a way that no other man can.

[Ladyjane14]

Have you considered starting your own thread? It really sounds like you've got a situation on your hands. I admit... the bits of your story that you've divulged so far have me curious.

[Hard2Think]

LJ,

 

Thanks for the comments. I change my mind .. I'll wait the 6 months. Once again, she's softened up a bit - even if she's struggling with the A.

Last night I took us out to a Monday night dinner and left the kids home. We had a nice time, but sure enough - she brought up the A during desert.

 

I get the feeling that this is boiling over a bit more now than usual is that she's not being very successful at brushing this under the carpet. I'm actually a bit encouraged that she's bringing it up more for that reason. She at least is interested in dealing with it and giving me the opportunity to do the same.

 

If a primary EN of hers is my relationship with the kids - she's been better serverd than most people. I don't know if you remember my other thread, but my wife use to be a flight attendant - and I was both the mom and the dad for at least 1/3 of the time. It got to the point where my infant daughter would only let ME hold her.

 

Since then, I've spent a great deal of time with my kids. Always have. My wife always comments at how much they love me - and because she cares about them as much as she does, I know the kids is a big motivation for trying to keep things together.

 

But last night I could see that my wife wants to keep us together, but she's also convinced that she'll always live with the pain as she lives it now. I know that's not true, but I can't tell her that. It would be meaningless coming from me.

 

But you're right in that things would be very positive if she would just try to work things out. I would never put a timetable to her recovery .. but I'm just frustrated at this constant back on and back off. We'll see what happens in 6 months .. I'll look into seeing another counselor for myself.