Update

[Hard2Think]

For those of you newer members .. well, this is me:

 

1) http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t94408/

2) http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t99937/

 

For the rest of you - hello again! I just thought I'd give you all an update and hope my experiences thus far may be of help to others.

 

It's now about 6 and a half months since D-Day, and maybe 3 months since may last update. I didn't post earlier because I'm in the same rollercoaster ride as always. I can almost set a calendar to it.

 

We get to a point where I think we've put the past behind us and it looks like our bonds are growing stronger. Then slowly I can sense my wife becoming just a bit more hesitant day by day until the day comes that she's angry and resentful again. I calmly weather the storm until we're back to what looks like bliss again.

 

While I enjoy the ups - I do look at these good days with jaded eyes because I know what follows and I get less upset with the storms because I know that they, too shall pass. But with every passing cycle there is less and less left of me. I'll confess that I've been relieved to hear her say (again) that she wants a divorce. If it were not for the kids - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made her ask me twice. I've found it very hard to keep my feelings alive for her as time passes ..

 

One thing that has changed is while I'll always listen to her if she comes up with concerns, anger, or fear in a calm manner - but I'll walk out of the room or even step out of the house if she starts insulting me, yelling, or otherwise letting herself get out of control. I figured it was my duty to take those lumps in the first few months after D-Day, but not anymore.

 

My wife hasn't wanted to see our MC, and so I only saw him one more time without her. While he didn't recommend I stay or leave - he did tell me that in his opinion, she's not going to change much at all. As such, I have to make the decision if I want to live the rest of my days like that. He tried to remind me that the pyschological damage I've suffered over the past 8 years in this kind of marriage is quite real.

 

I've come to the realization that she does not know how to be a good wife to me or to anyone. She admitted that as well. She told me that she cannot proimise to be loving or caring to me. She cannot promise me that we'll be more intimate. Nothing.

 

I've been getting more annoyed at things I notice about our relationship. I've always been one to do small things for her. I'll make her coffee in the morning the way she wants it with all the frothy milk an all that. When she comes back from teaching a workout class on weekends - I'll whip her up a full breakfast even though the rest of us ate already. I'll take her car and gas it up on Sunday night so she's ready to start the week on a full tank. I don't do it because I want something. I just do it because I love her and I figure it makes her life a little better, easier, more pleasant. But she would never even dream of doing any of those things for me. It would never even occur ot her. And her unwillingness to do even the slightest things for me like this bugs me. And now, I'm realizing that she feels it's beneath her to do those things. In fact - I'm wondering if those things I do for her causes her to lose respect for me rather than feel appreciation.

 

But she did make a significant effort in one way. She's an avid Dr. Laura fan - and so she picked up "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" on her own. I laughed at the title - I really did. But one day, while she wan't there, I read almost the whole thing in one sitting. It almost brought tears to my eyes a few times. She described my feelings in my marriage (pre-A) exactly! I suspect my wife tried to do what the books said - but she found it too hard. And now she fears a repeat of the A because she thinks she won't be able to keep me happy. She told me that she's "sure" that we'll have sigificant problems in the future and then I'll stray. I was absolutely puzzled that she could speak with such assurance about that - but not about her being able to be nice to me.

 

At the same time, she seems to act insecurely. Part of it is the fact that her divorced friends are having a terrible time finding men. Another is that she's seems to be convinced that other women are eyeing me when we go out (I never see it!). She's mentioned that in her mind, the next woman who makes a pass at me will have me in other A in no time.

 

In any case, last Thursday she had a major fit. This is a steep dive in the coaster ride. She suddenly wanted to see my emails, my phone records, everything. She already had full access to all that - I had already given her my passwords to my PC and everything. But in any case there she was - sifting through all my emails. There was nothing to find. After she got up, she said "You could have easily just been erasing them".

 

Today, she told me that she wants to see a counselor on her own. I think she needs help in making up her mind as to what to do. I suspect she wants to guard herself against the pain I caused her from happening again. She wished she had the courage to divorce me so as to spare herself this pain - and this is why I think she wants to se an IC. I'll support her decision either way - what else can I do?

 

So in summary :

 

1) Is my wife happier - No

2) Am I? - No

3) Is she committed to make this work yet? - No

4) Do I wish she would? - Yes

5) Do I know where I stand? - No

 

That's pretty much it so far ..

[whichwayisup]

Wow H2T...Rough stuff for both of you.

 

I do commend you for hanging in and handling her outbursts better. Sooner or later she does have to decide to deal with her own anger and resentment and make the choice to let it go and learn to trust all over again, fall back inlove with you...And, at some point, if she isn't willing to do the work, nor want to change her ways, you may have to either accept things as they are, or split up. She can't keep assuming that other women are looking at ya and thiking you are going to cheat on her in the future...It's probl. her way of coping and denying her own pain though.

 

How are the kids handling things? Are they happy?

 

I've been getting more annoyed at things I notice about our relationship. I've always been one to do small things for her. I'll make her coffee in the morning the way she wants it with all the frothy milk an all that. When she comes back from teaching a workout class on weekends - I'll whip her up a full breakfast even though the rest of us ate already. I'll take her car and gas it up on Sunday night so she's ready to start the week on a full tank. I don't do it because I want something. I just do it because I love her and I figure it makes her life a little better, easier, more pleasant. But she would never even dream of doing any of those things for me. It would never even occur ot her. And her unwillingness to do even the slightest things for me like this bugs me. And now, I'm realizing that she feels it's beneath her to do those things. In fact - I'm wondering if those things I do for her causes her to lose respect for me rather than feel appreciation.

 

My husband does all those little things for me, and I know how important it is that I show him my appreciation. (Minus the cooking me breakfast!LOL) Men tend to do those little extra things, the action of love - Wanting to please...I hope she eventually she sees this because those are the types of things that get forgotten about. Have you told her this? How you do those things for her to make her happy?

[GreenEyedLady]

H2T: Glad to see you back! Hope things get better for you...

[Mz. Pixie]

I suspect my wife tried to do what the books said - but she found it too hard. And now she fears a repeat of the A because she thinks she won't be able to keep me happy. She told me that she's "sure" that we'll have sigificant problems in the future and then I'll stray. I was absolutely puzzled that she could speak with such assurance about that - but not about her being able to be nice to me.

 

 

See, to me, this is the sad part. It would only take just a small bit of effort on her part and along with your efforts you guys could have a great marriage. You have obviously always put her on a pedestal and it would just take a little bit of trying on her part to make things better.

[JamesM]

Welcome back...but I am sorry things are not better.

 

I too was struck by the part that you think she thinks it is too hard to work at her marriage. If this is true, then you will be forced to be the one who saves your marriage...if you can.

 

I also noticed her lack of trust in you. She assumes two things...

 

First, that if the going gets tough, you will cheat. I can see where this comes from, but all that you have done in six months has not given her much additional trust in you

 

Second, she seems to assume that she is under pressure to improve or you will cheat. While this is partly true, it isn't the whole truth. She doesn't seem to want to bring the two of you back together out of love. It is only to keep you from having another affair. And since she seems to think that she cannot improve enough or it is too much work, she assumes you will cheat.

 

I guess it is a good sign that she thinks women are attracted to you. This must mean that she still sees you as attractive.

[NoIDidn't]

Hey Hard2Think <waving with much effort>

 

So glad to *see* you. I am sorry about how things are going, but hopefully it could get better. The ups and downs in my M are still there too, but the duration is much shorter (not even hours anymore) and that's a good thing. Is that the case with you guys? Or does it seem like its just getting worst?

 

I don't want to give you any advice, as this is an update. But....there's always a *butt*. LOL!!

 

Try individual counselling for yourself. Get "Divorce Busting" (I can't remember the author but its a woman), and the author's other book. They are both great books. And they were extremely helpful to me.

 

Your W is probably giving up on what she has tried in the book because it got no immediate change from you. What JamesM said had a lot of truth to it. Question is: why does she feel that way? Why does she feel that the alternative is cheating for you? That right there makes her insecure and afraid of any kind of change.

 

Otay, advice over. I hope you guys are able to come together again in a more intimate and loving way. It will be a rebirth of the both of you, individually and as a couple.

 

Best Wishes

[Hard2Think]

WWIU,

 

I don't think the kids know what's happening - but then again, I can't be 100% sure. They don't act any differently and they haven't said anything. My 13-y/o daughter is very perceptive, and so she may well be noticing something. She's also very discreet and is often reluctant to share her personal concerns with us. But they're excelling in school, they seem happy, and they have lots of friends ..

 

Mz. Pixie,

 

Yeah, it is too bad. During the short time she was making an effort to be nice - I felt a HUGE difference. I was actually starting to feel crazy about her again - and she really wasn't doing all that much. But then I got clotheslined again by her emotional downturns. I haven't given up hope, but if she could just meet me part way - not even half, just 1/64th of the way and we'd probably be good to go ..!

 

JamesM,

 

I don't expect that she'll trust me anytime soon. That part I can understand. That may take a couple of more years maybe. I did lie to her and decieve her, so she has to wonder what I'm up to occasionally.

 

I agree that she probably feels that pressure you're talking about. That's true. But I'd never have an affair again. I may leave her if things get bad enough, but I'm not going through the A again. The stress was too high and the experience was ultimately quite unsatisfactory. And besides, I do not, under any circumstances, want her to go through any of this again. Not going to happen.

 

I think that she loves me, wants us to stay married, but wants a guarantee of some sort that this won't happen again. At the same time, she thinks a divorce from me is her only true guarantee against suffering from this pain. I think that's her struggle right now.

[Ladyjane14]

I've come to the realization that she does not know how to be a good wife to me or to anyone. She admitted that as well. She told me that she cannot proimise to be loving or caring to me. She cannot promise me that we'll be more intimate. Nothing.

 

I know we've talked about it before... but typically, it takes about two years for a marriage to heal after a case of Infidelity.

 

That said, I've seen posts recently from betrayed spouse's who still haven't put it behind them after TWENTY years.

Nobody can live in the doghouse forever, right? So... give her time, but when it's become surreal, do what you need to do.

 

All in all, I think there comes a point at which a betrayed spouse needs to SELECT healing. They need to become proactive in the reconcilliation process. I told another poster some things that worked for me on this thread:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t108464/

 

Most of it had to do with "Mutual Forgiveness". As a subject for conversation, you could bring the idea up... but I'm not hopeful that you'll get too far with it in terms of actual change unless she embraces it for herself.

 

Alternatively, you could give her a little more time and then ORDER her into counseling via the ultimatum. i.e. "We either get this settled once and for all or I'm outta here." I think if it were me, I'd give her the full year post D-Day before I pushed it that far though. I'd get a different counselor too... one who's pro-marriage and experienced in Infidelity. In light of the above quote... I'm not sure you'll get the results you want unless somebody TEACHES this girl how to be a good partner.

 

I'm sure it's bugging you that she's still 'checking'.

Try to bear in mind that it's a difficult habit for BS's to break...again, something they have to "select". If it helps you any with your patience though, I honestly don't think she'd bother if she didn't care.

[Hard2Think]

Thanks LJ!

 

Oddly enough, I doesn't bother me at all that she's checking up on me. I'm actually glad she finally started doing it. It at least provides some tangible indication that we both know nothing is going on that she wouldn't approve of. It only bugs me a little when after finding nothing at all, she still figures I cleverly hid everything .

 

Mutual forgiveness is fine - but the truth is, if things ever got good again, I'd never hold anything against her. In other words, she already has my forgiveness.

 

I do understand that what she's going through must be excruciatingly painful. I also know that she takes the fact that she still feels this way as an indication that she's always going to feel like this. So for her, this has to seem hopeless. Why would she want to live out the rest of her days with this agony? She thinks divorce will put her on the path to getting rid of the pain.

 

She is going to counseling on her own. Her own IC. Which depending on the counselor, could be a very very good thing. I mean not just for the marriage - but for her own self. She has tons or unresolved issues from a pretty traumatic childhood that I think still shapes her views of herself, relationships, and of men in general. If she can look at those, with me or without me, then that can perhaps be a great thing for her.

 

Oh and your link is great. I actually read it a while back already while lurking. Thanks!

[Scrivdog]

Wecome back, H2D!

 

It's my opinion, based on what you've been posting, that this relationship is doomed. You have to deal with not only recovering from the affair, which will only get you back to square one if you're lucky, but then after all that, you still have to get the relationship fixed from the trouble you had before the affair.

 

But chances are, you'll never get back to square one. You'll be allowed to stay with her as long as you agree to clubbed on the head every so often when she feels bad. And you can forget about her being nice to you. She already told you she can't promise you that. I gotta give her that she's honest at least. So why are you expecting anything different?

 

I think your counselor probably saw this better than you do. He met her and he met you and saw both of you in action.

[Hard2Think]

Looks like we're headed towards the divorce route. Since her latest downturn, she's mentioned divorce again - but this time I didn't push back any. I let her go with that thought without trying to talk her out of it.

 

After those couple of days last week, we had a very brief period where she showed me some affection by giving me a long hug. But then it was back to where we were. After a few days of her not wearing her wedding ring, I took off mine.

 

And today, she announced she wants to get the divorce. She backed off her intention to see an IC. She said that in the next weeks or months, we're not sleeping with each other or shoeing affection and "it" will happen again. I told her that no - that I'm not going anywhere and that my intent was to give her the time she needs. But I'll be here. Then she told me that she will "never get over it" and has been "scarred for life". And so as a result, she just wants the divorce.

 

So I don't really have any bright ideas as to what I can do. I think she needs space, and being affectionate with her may piss her off. On the other hand, this whole thing isn't doing much to bring us together. Quite the opposite.

 

Any of you know what may be happening here? Or is it pretty much face value?

[whichwayisup]

Ouch. Not sure if this is another test or if she really is fed up enough to throw the towel in.

 

Sadly, if she has made up her mind, there's not much you can do to stop her, or convince her otherwise. She's decided NOT to even bother to try to forgive you, work on the marriage, get that love back...In her mind, probably for a long time, it's been over...Her emotions and her actions have shown you this.

 

I am sorry H2T. She isn't willing to fix herself to make the marriage better either, so it's not all your fault.

 

I don't know what else to tell you...Don't move out though. If she wants out, let her move on her own, and you two can figure out a routine with the kids - Maybe one week you're at the house, one week she's at the house...

 

Maybe you should (just incase) talk to a lawyer....

[Hard2Think]

WWIU,

 

Well, she's agreed to have use a mediator. Our main concern is that the kids should suffer as little as possible. I know she's with me on this one.

 

Ideally, I'll request that we stay within walking distance of each other so that the kids always feel like they have full access to 2 homes at all times. Psychologically I think they'll take it better if they know neither of us is any more than a 5 minute walk away.

 

But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[whichwayisup]

Yup, as long as both of you put the kids first and the rest of the stuff on the backburner when it comes to them. Good to hear that she's reasonable about that! (sorry, couldn't resist)

[Ladyjane14]

There's literally NOTHING you can do if she's not willing to participate in healing the relationship. As I told you earlier... there comes a point when a betrayed spouse must become proactive or leave the marriage.

 

I'm in agreement with WWIU, uncertain as to whether your wife is testing you or not. But it's been six months now, and the only leverage you've ever had in getting her to step up to the plate is gone if you're unwilling to end the marriage.

 

I believe I'd call her bluff if I were you. She's either got the cards or she doesn't.

In the meantime, be as pleasant as you can about it, and keep your kids prioritized.

 

You did a wrong thing, but you can't change the past... and you can't live in the doghouse all your life either. So, don't let her use your own sense of guilt against you in the settlement.

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm in agreement with WWIU, uncertain as to whether your wife is testing you or not. But it's been six months now, and the only leverage you've ever had in getting her to step up to the plate is gone if you're unwilling to end the marriage.

 

I believe I'd call her bluff if I were you. She's either got the cards or she doesn't.

In the meantime, be as pleasant as you can about it, and keep your kids prioritized.

 

You did a wrong thing, but you can't change the past... and you can't live in the doghouse all your life either. So, don't let her use your own sense of guilt against you in the settlement.

 

Yes, I agree she's testing you. Great posts WWIU and LJ!

[Hard2Think]

Scrivdog,

I'm not so sure I'd be quite as pessimistic about that. I do think that maybe the counselor was just a little too quick to dismiss the affair too quickly as merely a symptom. While I think, he's right, I think he came off to my wife as though he was blowing off her pain and asking her too quickly to start working on the marriage. This probably put her off.

That being said - I admit that I've thought the same thing you said about me getting beaten up forever. She's the kind of person who will hold on dearly to this new weapon I gave her and I can see myself having downturns related to this 10 years from now ..

[Hard2Think]

LJ, Mz. Pixie,

Thanks for your input. You may be right in that she's testing or that she longs to see me scramble once again. The problem is that she's pointed that gun at me so often now that it has almost no effect except to make me a little more comfortable with the idea. I think I'll see how far she goes with this ..

[Flyin in Clouds]

See, to me, this is the sad part. It would only take just a small bit of effort on her part and along with your efforts you guys could have a great marriage. You have obviously always put her on a pedestal and it would just take a little bit of trying on her part to make things better.

 

Never put a woman on a pedistal. You will only be setting yourself up to have her spit down on you.

 

And there is a huge difference between shoulda, woulda, coulda and actually doing a small effort.

 

"If you love something set it free. If it comes back then it's yours. If it doesn't you never had it to begin with."

 

I suggest you set up an apartment for you and your wife. One of you move out. Tell your wife she is free to date other men with your blessing. If she finds someone better for her than you then she should stay with him. But if she thinks you are the best man for her then you will be there for her. By giving her her freedom, you are saying it is her choice and you will be her friend no matter what she chooses. That way it is not you trying to control things, trying to get her to stay with you. It will be her deicsion for what she feels is best for her. You may end up losing her, whether you set her free or try to work on saving the marriage. But if you set her free and she chooses you, you win. The risk of course is you could lose. But you are on a path to lose anyway, so there really is no risk.

 

 

I know we've talked about it before... but typically, it takes about two years for a marriage to heal after a case of Infidelity.

 

That said, I've seen posts recently from betrayed spouse's who still haven't put it behind them after TWENTY years.

Ladyjane infidelity is never "healed" as in cured. It's like cancer. You can only survive it. The infidelity wound is like every other. The wound never heals to be the same as things were before. Nobody really puts that hurt behind them. They may bury it very deep, but the pain can be brought back to the surface at any time.

 

As I see it, part of the wife's hurt is she just doesn't know that she can be a woman that can be attractive to a man. After all Hard2Think rejected her for the OW, so in her mind she just isn't woman enough. She needs to find out that she is before she can really heal.

 

Let her go. And if she comes back then you might repair your relationship and improve it.

 

"We either get this settled once and for all or I'm outta here."

Naw, she's not inclined to take "orders" from the man that abused her by cheating on her. I sure wouldn't if I was in her place. Offering her freedom to choose you or some other man, with no strings, no threats, no loss of her kids or disrespect from you or family, that would work far better I think.

 

If I was in your wife's shoes, my wife cheating on me, I'd be constantly thinking about why I wasn't man enough to keep my wife from straying. I'd be always worried about what I did wrong or why I wasn't enough. And I would never believev my wife that she wouldn't put us through that kind of pain again. I'd always feel inferior and wonder if any ofhter woman would want me. And until I found out that I was wanted by other women, call it validation, then I woudn't ever feel right in staying with my wife. Your wife is probably going through the same thing. Wondering if any man really would love her.

 

She thinks divorce will put her on the path to getting rid of the pain.

OK, divorce. And she can start dating again. And ask her to give you a second chance in the dating game. And if you do convince her you are the best man for her maybe she'd like to consider marrying you again. Then you win.

 

As to what to do about the kids, I know a divorce couple that swapped living spaces so the kids always stayed in the "their" home, while the parents did the moving back and forth to the apartment...

 

I think I'll see how far she goes with this ..

You know that attitude right there is why your marriage will never work. You keep thinking this is all her fault. She made you have the A didn't she? It is your failure to manipulating her. She won't do what you want so it's all her fault.

 

I hope she has the strength to kick your sorry ass out of the house. I hope she goes that far with this you arrogant ass. You had the A. Yes you are in the doghouse forever.

 

If you hope to save your marrige then you need to let her decide, on her own, with out any coersion from you, to decide to stay with you. As long as you are around she can't make that decision. So be a man, get an apartment, move out, let her decide without you controlling her that she either wants you or she doesn't.

 

You don't really care about your wife. What you care about is all the wrong she's done to you that drove you to have the A. Since that's your attitude, then why should she show you any love or affection? It was all about you. What you need from her. Not what she needs from you. Right? If I'm wrong then tell me that your wife really needs? Tell us how you will make her life better for her sake and her sake alone.

 

I'll bet you are such an egoist that you think making her life better requires you to be present in her life. That may be true but she has to make that decision.

 

H2T this is just my observation of your situation. Maybe I'm all wrong, but right or wrong maybe it's worth thinking about it form this angle.

[Ladyjane14]

Ladyjane infidelity is never "healed" as in cured. It's like cancer. You can only survive it.

 

How would YOU know?

 

Your advice seems consistantly to "cheat back" and then end the relationship. One would assume that's how you might have addressed any unfaithfulness in your own personal relationships. So, how would you know what a recovered marriage looks like?

[whichwayisup]

You know that attitude right there is why your marriage will never work. You keep thinking this is all her fault. She made you have the A didn't she? It is your failure to manipulating her. She won't do what you want so it's all her fault.

 

Huh? He isn't blaming her or thinking it's all her fault. He damn well knows why things have gotten to where they are now, he's admitted it, talked about it over and over again in all his threads. WTF, man!

 

All he wants is for her to open up enough so together they can go to marriage counselling and fix things. BEFORE he cheated there were problems in the marriage, and those are the problems together they need to work on. The affair was a symptom of it all. Yeah, bad choice to cheat, but it's what they've got to deal with now.

 

In all honesty, it just seems she is tired, hurting and doesn't know what she wants anymore so in her mind doing nothing is better than doing something. Her first reaction is GET OUT, but then later she changes her mind.

 

Until she wants to talk, honestly about EVERYTHING and he is there to listen, and together they either end it or fix it, things won't change. Things will stay as they are now.

[Hard2Think]

After all Hard2Think rejected her for the OW

 

I know that this may be the case for some other affairs, where the wife was a full participant in the marriage and suddenly she finds her husband chose a younger/more voluptuous/thinner/whatever woman instead of her.

 

That just wasn't the case here. From where I stood, she basically checked out of the marriage sexually and emotionally even if she didn't extricate gerself materially. I wasn't able to find a way to fix that. Maybe I still don't know.

 

I didn't reject her at all. I just got tired of waiting around for things to get better. But even in the midst of my A - my wife could have easily made me drop the mistress in a flash.

 

I'd be always worried about what I did wrong or why I wasn't enough.

 

She's not a stupid woman - she knows exactly what was going on before the A. I don't thnk there's any confusion in this regard.

 

OK, divorce. And she can start dating again. And ask her to give you a second chance in the dating game. And if you do convince her you are the best man for her maybe she'd like to consider marrying you again. Then you win.

You, of course, must be joking.

 

You don't really care about your wife. What you care about is all the wrong she's done to you that drove you to have the A. Since that's your attitude, then why should she show you any love or affection? It was all about you. What you need from her. Not what she needs from you. Right? If I'm wrong then tell me that your wife really needs? Tell us how you will make her life better for her sake and her sake alone.

I don't think you've read my posts.

 

H2T this is just my observation of your situation. Maybe I'm all wrong, but right or wrong maybe it's worth thinking about it form this angle.

I don't see it, but you gave a well thought out response - I do appreciate you taking the time and the effort.

[Mz. Pixie]

How would YOU know?

 

Your advice seems consistantly to "cheat back" and then end the relationship. One would assume that's how you might have addressed any unfaithfulness in your own personal relationships. So, how would you know what a recovered marriage looks like?

 

Sure people recover their marriages, LJ is one sterling example.

[Romeo Must Die]

Once you have been betrayed you are reluctant to give your heart so freely again. You just give back little by little. The words just dont seem like much, you have to back them up. The words I love you doesnt cick in our heads if you were once whispering those words to another woman. It's even harder if youre having problems and are overwhelmed from every direction. All roads lead back to the affair. Why am I doing this? It would be so much easier to divorce? LOL, Think again.

 

Sometimes we can be so afraid of something we can almost push it to happen. A BW's biggest fear is being rejected again, so she may even reject trying because it really wouldnt be any fun to lose again so why bother. There is always a threat. Thats the killer. And in the most intimate of ways too. Not being able to trust the one you love for fear of another stab in the back is brutal on ones self esteem.

 

I was trying to run away from Romeo all the time because I couldnt take it. If OW was going to follow me around, write anonymous letters and graffiti and he wasnt going to do anything about it, I would leave. He did go back there to his OW, but would have me believe differently. In my case my suspicions were correct, but my point is...

 

I was relieved to get away sometimes, because then I didnt have to worry about the suspense that he would cheat on me again. It's such a daily torment I cant describe it to you. You would have to experience it to know what it was like.

 

As for reconcilling, it is do-able, each side feels like giving up at times and each has more than his (or her) fair share of pain. It's not easy. The old marriage is not being resurrected, you're breathing life into a new one.

 

In this new life, you are given different obsticles that you must cross. Part of paying the dues of being given a second chance, I guess.

 

It's alot like hysterical bonding, you just get closer than you ever thought it was possible. Sometimes having a man that never cheated is what I would have asked for, but a man that never cheated would have the same convictions as a man who will never cheat on me again.

 

PS throw away the Dr. Laura books. This is the same person who says looking at porn is cheating and advises women to divorce them immediately. Her books are only good for fireplace kindling. It's just psychological gravy for the masses. Go out and buy some new marriage/affair books written by other, more reputable authors. Take an outing to B&N and do this together.

 

[NoIDidn't]

Great post, RMD.

 

I just want to add this too.

 

She may be at the stage that I am at (while handling it differently). I am now starting to see the issues in the M and am wondering how to work past it all.

 

Its frustrating to see how A leads to B and feel helpless from keeping it from happening. Its frustrating to see your part in the problems but feel helpless to change what you think is a deeply ingrained part of who you are. Its frustrating to see your WS part in the problems and also feel that he won't change anything because its just who he is too.

 

Sometimes it does seem like D is the answer. The fact that she is being so amicable about everything and thinking about the kids shows that she holds you in high regard, even if she isn't outright saying so. She is in a tough place. Who knows ultimately if she really means it even after it starts happening?

 

A recovered M is always a good outcome. But if that is not possible, two recovered individuals is a good second.

 

H2T, wishing you the best.