I Need your wisdom, LSers....

[polywog]

Hi All,

I have been reading posts here since my sweetheart broke up with me last week, and am now ready jump in. (BTW, I started to write this before and hit some button and it might have been submitted...sorry if that happened!). My SO and I have been living together for almost 9 years and are not legally married, but this forum seems more apropriate than the Breaking Up one.

 

In a nutshell: My SO and I have been living together for 8 years, been seeing each other for 9. I moved into his house after much thinking, feeling like it was the right thing. At the time he was living a batchelor life with numerous immature roomates who trashed his house. When I moved in with him we went into domestic bliss mode and created a wonderful nest together, a lovely life with mutual respect. In his case, he had never really had this. And until about 2 years ago it certainly was great. We come from very different backgrounds, and have both been married and in LTRs before. We have no children, but we have several beloved cats and a dog that we both adore. About two years ago, this time of year, he became very distant. I became clingy, and wanted to talk about it. He gave me the "not attracted to you" speech, which led to a big talk and a second chance. Without much seeming to change, he turned around as the spring came and all went well again until the next winter, when the same thing happened like clockwork. I wondered if he gets depressed in the winter. We went through the same thing, and like clockwork again he became distant and has now told me that this relationship has dragged on too long and he wants out. He told me he was never in love with me. I am devastated, of course, but have decided that I must respect his wishes. Where we live it is very hard to find housing and he is fine with me staying here for as long as it takes to find a new place. The house is big enough that we can be separate, but it's just awful, as I know many of you know.

 

I want to practice NC... both so I can begin to let it sink in and move on, and also because I wish that he would "see the light". I also feel like I want to fight for it to work out, but not sure if or how to do this. I thought that I would be spending the rest of my life here with him. I have already begun looking for a place (it's just awful because I love it here in our home, and have a big garden that I have been tending for all these years) and have very loving friends. I have been socializing all week as best I can. I am an artist and have a show coming up in March and can go to my studio; thank god for this, but it has been almost impossible for me to give up hope.

 

One of questions for all you, is how can I best practice NC while sharing the home? I know I have other questions, but I just can't think of them. I go through waves of grief, sometimes hope...you guys all know what it's like.

 

Any thoughts? You are only getting the skeletal details, I just needed to jump in... I would love any advice!

[Ladyjane14]

One of questions for all you, is how can I best practice NC while sharing the home?

 

You can't. So, your better bet is probably 180's.

 

Michele Weiner-Davis, re: DivorceBusting

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

Michelle Weiner Davis has several books out and also a website. You might want to take a look at them. You might also want to take a look at marriagebuilders.com.. specifically the article on Plan A and Plan B. If you type the words, "what are plan a and plan b, marriagebuilders" into your browser, you ought to find it without a problem.

 

When you're not quite in a postition to do NC, and your goal is to save the relationship... a combination of 180's and Plan A is probably your best bet. In the interim, you have time to work towards preparations for Plan B which would incorporate NC.

 

If you've done a great job on Plan A, there will be a significant contrast spelled out to your mate regarding the postive meaning of having YOU in his life or not. It greases the wheels and makes NC work a whole lot better.

[KCORAL]

I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. It is painful and way to difficult emotionally. The first thing is to take care of yourself. Make sure that you keep your nutrution up, excercise and do activities that bring you happiness and comfort. Seek out a friend to share your feelings with. Talk to your pastor at your church. Make sure that these individuals will keep your conversations in confidence. I would also seek out counseling. Maybe first by yourself and then if your man would agree - then together. Did something big happen between the two of you to cause this to happen? If not, you can't throw away all of those years without at least trying really hard. You both have put so much into making a life together. If you feel like when the two of you talk about all of this that is gets out of hand or that things are said the way that you intend....write a letter. Be honest and pour out your feelings, thoughts, wishes, hopes, needs, etc. I feel as if there is more to his side of the story that he is not sharing with you. If you do all of this and it still ends - then you can leave knowing that you did everything you could for the relationship. Good luck and keep in touch -

[polywog]

Thanks both of you for your super-helplful replies, it means more than I can say. LJ, thanks for clarifying NC and 180. Years ago when I was going thru my divorce I read "Divorcebusting" (a little too late, and am glad that marriage didn't work anyway) and yesterday I went to one of the nearby libraries and checked out "Divorce Remedy" and started to read it. I did not realize that NC and 180 were two different practices. I have been doing all that stuff, actually for about 2 days. I have not even seen SO, tho he is on the homestead. He has been "Manning-Out" (a play on Gunny's Manning-up) in the garage stripping apart a car. I keep peering out the window when I hear power tools, feeling sad... it's his vocation and one of the things I love about him and what we would share.

 

Now I have some more things to add about all this. This could be a big factor. I have said that we are not married. He is still married to a woman he has not seen for 10 years, that he asked to leave. She had a lot of problems (addiction is one of them) and was fooling around behind his back. He has gotten divorce papers together twice since we have been together. He didn't file originally because he had to clear up some back taxes. That finally being done (it was painful for him), he went ahead and filed again. The only step he needs to complete is to apply for divorce in abstentia, as she has vanished and would not reply to his last mailing of papers. He said he would do that, but he is a procrastinator. I offered to help, but have not nagged. I think that maybe he is afraid that once he is divorced he will have to face the idea of marrying me, though I have told him that I don't care if we wed. Having said this, I have had concerns about living with a man and not having any of the rights like being able to visit him or take care of business if something happens to him, not to mention no property rights... reasons many of my longtime couple friends have eventually married.

 

Now something that might be part of his side of the story; the one thing that he has expressed unhappiness with is my weight. Now I will tell you that I am 5'4" and have weighed between 118 and 130 (up and down)throughout our relationship. I have been variously fit throughout these times. Right now I weigh 122. Despite what he has said about this, his attraction for me has never seemd to be attatched to what I weigh at the time. When I have been on the higher end of this, and he has been lusting after me I'll say, "but I thought you thought I was too fat!", to which he will reply "not really". My point here, is that when he is unhappy I am too fat. I have a fairly good self image, have not felt unattractive, and in fact am considered attractive and not fat by just about anyone's standards. He was fat as a child and was picked on for it. I think he is phobic, maybe. When he has asked me to lose weight, it is hard for me to take this seriously. Yet, there is a part of me that thinks "what's the big deal if that's what he wants?" Yet, it doesn't seem to matter what I weigh... this issue comes up when he is his unhappy winter mode. I just don't know what to think. This is why he wants to break up, I think. It just seems wacky.

What do you all think of this?

[Ladyjane14]

Poly, this is very unlikely to be about your weight, or any other thing about YOU.

 

To be frank with you.. I think there's a good possibility that you've got 'a snake in your woodpile'.

Sometimes when a guy starts acting weird and nitpicking, it's because his attention has drifted on to someone else.

 

When in doubt, apply the same treatment plan that you would to a case of infidelity.

[polywog]

Yes, I have thought about this. I asked him and he said no, and I believe he hasn't "done it", the deed, with anyone, yet. This could mean "No, I am not fooling around but I have a crush on some young babe".

One thing about where I live, it's a resort town and very transient. A lot of the men who grew up here (he is one) have never settled down (grown-up) because there is a nearly constant influx of "new blood" coming to town every year. In fact, I know many men, some are his friends, who seem to be in this trap of constantly waiting for "next summer". Thus there are a lot of 50-something once handsome (still handsome, actually) men who are under the illusion that they are going to score something better. I have watched this for years since moving here, from the time I was one of the young babes getting hit on by these guys to being a settled down woman living with a local who grew up with this influx. In an animal kind of way I understand their reptilian thinking! But Geez!

As for your sage comment about it not being about my weight, yes I know, but it's hard. I have good self image, but there is a little "muffin top" goin' on right now so it has stung a bit. I shall just practice my 180 and see where it goes and try to weather what's fate throws my way.

[polywog]

BTW, LJ... what do you mean by the plan for dealing with infidelity, is it something in one of those books?

[Gunny376]

I agree with LJ's last post.

 

It took me a long time to get it wrapped around my head, that its wasn't anything I did or didn't do ~ by my XW's own admission I was a good husband.

 

What it all came down to in the end, when all was said and done ~ my XW just wanted someone ~ somthing different.

 

What does a lot of marriages/relationships in is just plain old fashion boredom and complatency. That is to say ~ its not you nor anything you've done nor not done, I'm just tired of being with you!

[Gunny376]

I agree with LJ's last post.

 

It took me a long time to get it wrapped around my head, that its wasn't anything I did or didn't do ~ by my XW's own admission I was a good husband.

 

What it all came down to in the end, when all was said and done ~ my XW just wanted someone ~ somthing different.

 

What does a lot of marriages/relationships in is just plain old fashion boredom and complatency. That is to say ~ its not you nor anything you've done nor not done, I'm just tired of being with you and ready for something ~ someone new?!

[Ladyjane14]

BTW, LJ... what do you mean by the plan for dealing with infidelity, is it something in one of those books?

 

Yes. Actually, I think if you combine the techniques of Dr. Willard Harley (Surviving an Affair and marriagebuilders.com) with Michelle Weiner Davis's 180's... you'll be able to draft a pretty good plan that will illustrate your attractiveness to a wayward mate.

[polywog]

I know... it's just hard to accept that he would get tired of me. I mean, I get tired of him sometimes and have also had second thoughts at times over the years, but I just see it as weather passing through... that's me, I guess.

 

I will tell you, it might be hard for him to meet another woman who tolerates all the hours he puts in with his cars and various other motors. I happen to be a female motor-head who loves and appreciates that about him, and have my own art life that I do on my own that makes me have hours away from home. He and I both have had spouses/partners that felt slighted by the time we spend at our vocations, but we appriciated that in each other. I am waxing nostalgiac, sigh.....

[polywog]

Excellent, LJ....thanks so so much, I shall check out those sites asap.

[Ladyjane14]

You'll do well to note what Gunny has told you.

 

Alot of the time.. it all boils down to our partner just wanting to move on. When there's a problem that can be addressed, sometimes we can pull it out of the fire. But when there's literally NOTHING that we can do or change... hey, we can't make other people's choices for them.

 

No matter what strategy you come up with, remember that... and don't lose yourself in your efforts.

[polywog]

No matter what strategy you come up with, remember that... and don't lose yourself in your efforts.

 

Yes... I have been through the fire with my divorce long ago, and luckily am good at not losing myself (too much).

 

As for accepting that maybe he just wants to move on, yikes that is hard to swallow this early in the game so I will just do my 180 and take what I can from alll this. It's hard for me to give up without a fight, tho.

[Ladyjane14]

It's hard for me to give up without a fight, tho.

 

Fortunately, you don't have to yet.

When and if that time comes... you'll know it. There's one worry you can check off your list anyway.

 

One last word of advice. Watch out which boards you post on while you're surfing away from LS. Some of them will have you hating your WS in short order, and you can't repair a broken relationship with hate.

 

There are of course, times when a wayward deserves our enmity, and we can use that emotion as impetus to move away from a toxic relationship. I don't think you're in a situation like that though... so best to avoid the 'haters'.

[polywog]

Yes, LJ... thanks for that, I am aware of those bitter sites, thank god. In fact, on LS which I think is amazing, I chose this forum as opposed to breaking up because it has the wisest, most compassionate, and (often funny) posters. I am even being careful who among my own circle of friends/acquiantences I have told about all this. Of course some of my pals are inclined to say dump him, leave, and esp the women who are apalled that I could stand to be told "I am too fat"! Thanks....

[PWSX3]

Now something that might be part of his side of the story; the one thing that he has expressed unhappiness with is my weight. Now I will tell you that I am 5'4" and have weighed between 118 and 130 (up and down)throughout our relationship. I have been variously fit throughout these times. Right now I weigh 122. Despite what he has said about this, his attraction for me has never seemd to be attatched to what I weigh at the time. When I have been on the higher end of this, and he has been lusting after me I'll say, "but I thought you thought I was too fat!", to which he will reply "not really". My point here, is that when he is unhappy I am too fat. I have a fairly good self image, have not felt unattractive, and in fact am considered attractive and not fat by just about anyone's standards. He was fat as a child and was picked on for it. I think he is phobic, maybe. When he has asked me to lose weight, it is hard for me to take this seriously. Yet, there is a part of me that thinks "what's the big deal if that's what he wants?" Yet, it doesn't seem to matter what I weigh... this issue comes up when he is his unhappy winter mode. I just don't know what to think. This is why he wants to break up, I think. It just seems wacky.

What do you all think of this?

This might be a place you can start for yourself. Do you feel like you could be in a little better shape? I'm not saying to lose weight, but just go to a gym and start doing the treadmill or elliptical machine (my favorite) not for your SO but for you. When you are in a good mindset it really helps stay positive. It would give you something different then just doing the same old thing and believe it or not you do feel better after the pain of a workout.

Just start doing things for yourself and if you start changing things for you he just might notice something is different and want to find out what.

 

Do you guys do dates? Sure you do things together but do you plan a date that you both do something different then what you usually do?

Maybe go to a dinner theater

Go for a pic-a-nic

Go to the park and just spend some time together

Just a few ideas of things that you might not be doing, but would give you time together.

 

It's good to hear from a female that likes motors!!!!! My kind of gal.

 

Good luck and until you can say you have done everything "you" can do then it's not over.

 

Look at yourself, make sure there aren't things that you might be able to change to make your relationship better.

[polywog]

You are kind, PWS to give all this advice. I will tell you, we just sort of stopped doing things together which sucks, so we haven't really done dates in a while. He is not really a date type of guy. Here's what we did on our first date, which he asked me on. He got a 6-pack of Guiness and drove us to the beach in his old car, while he told me about all this great used lumber he scored to build his new deck. I was delighted. I was used to hanging around with people who talked about movies and books and art, but I have a big side to me that loves DYI projects, fishing, working on cars, cooking, going to the dump to score stuff, gardening....homebody type stuff. I thought (and think) that this date was just great. Early on in our dating life we split up for a bit, and I happened to see him at a party we both attended. He was sitting next to a very pretty girl and was trying to pick her up. He was telling her all about doing a valve adjustment on his dad's car, and the poor girl's eyes were just glazing over! LOL! Anyhow, one thing that might have become a problem is that he really has no interest in the other things I like to do; go to movies, go hang out in bookstores, art openings (which i don't like either, but I have to for my career), etc. There have been times when our social lives have seemed separate; I will do the things he likes with him, but the other things I do on my own or with my friends. Sometimes I have felt a little frustrated by that, but I love him for who he is and my life with him has been very full and happy (I have great pals that I can do the other stuff with if I want company). I have at times worried about the separate life thing, tho, being hard on him but that he doesn't express it. Can't say, as he woun't admit it bothers him.

Anyhow, yes...excercise is a great thing... used to belong to the gym, stopped because I am broke, but maybe it's time to just spend the money again.

[PWSX3]

I think I read it here and if not it was in a book. (I can't remember with all this reading I've been doing;)) but there is three parts to a relationship and this is in my words or how i see it.

 

His hobbies

Her hobbies

joint hobbies

 

You have to have time to yourself, but you also have to do things together. Your SO is just scared to step outside of his box and being a gear head myself that was a "BIG" step for me.

Our counselor told us 5 years ago that we needed to do dates and I had to plan one that the W would like but maybe it wasn't something I really wanted to do but I would do it because I knew she would like it so I took her to a play called; "I Love You, Your perfect, Now Change.

I have never laughed so hard in my life, it was so funny. It's about life, starting with dating to marriage, to when one spouse dies.

 

I feel I came out of it learning more then the W did, because I learned it wasn't so bad to try something that I had always thought was for sissies, plus the play showed me how woman see things that men do and how men see things woman do. I would recommend that show to everyone. Now if I went to a serious play I might not like it as well, but it was one I liked and so did the wife.

 

My dear friend in one of our other branches at my work has really helped me see outside my box and to never say never, because you never know that you just might try it someday and I have country music on my I-pod to prove it.

 

Your SO has some issues and he is going to have to work them out himself, and hopefully he will notice it and do something about it.

[polywog]

Good insight, PWS. My heart is aching at this moment, I just watched SO take our dog out to go hang out with friends to watch a football game... (sorry to admit I spied on him, watched him through the upstairs window)...something he never does, leave the house! So he is opening up the box, now that I am hiding out. Just hope he invites me into his new box, someday...

Well, gotta go get out of the house. Thanks again.