Craig Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 So I’m reading this book right now, and it brings up some interesting points. Hmmm, sounds like a 'recipe' book for relationships or how to get what you think you really want by being anyone but yourself. Basically it boils down to the fact that men like challenge, and that bitches get them hooked because they basically have a “take it or leave it” attitude towards the relationship, and this apparently keeps the man guessing (challenged?) and therefore interested. Where as the “nice girls” put it all out there too quickly and the man no longer feels like he is working towards something, thereby losing interest fairly quickly. No challenge=no longer feeling any need to put in effort. I like a challenge but in a relationship, mmmmm, not so much. I'd rather be challenged by things outside of the relationship that contribute to the well being of the relationship and the relationship experience. Mind you, I'm talking of challenges that don't need to be in a relationship like feigned bitchiness or the door mat kind of nice girl syndrome. The bitch and the nice girl as you describe them above seem to be very similar. Both are not being who they are so they can manipulate the relationship. Me no like. And then there is the sex issue. The book advises making him wait as long as possible but without being a tease about it. Not sure where the line is there... so I'm interested in hearing opinions. Hmmmm, why not just follow a flow chart and check list? Disregard your personal reality in favor of hooking and keeping a man. Aye carumba. A lot of it DOES make sense to me, and it gives me a better idea of where I'm screwing up. As I don't seem to have much problem getting guys interested in me... it's keeping them interested that I'm having the issue with. They will go from doting all over me and being super wonderful, and then when I move forward to a "relationship" at their request mind you, it's all over. I'm not a genius so I have an advantage and what I think is that you are unconsciously selecting the type of guy that will give you the outcome that is happening. Do I really have to be a bitch to keep them coming back for more? LOL. I am a very straight up person, I'm not much in to the whole game playing aspect of dating, but I guess I'm willing to experiment a bit with my attitude towards it all. Instead of being who you are not, how about changing the type of guy you are looking for? Any thoughts? Yes (ouch!) think about different types of guys than the ones you have been receptive to. Be yourself and see what happens.
Curmudgeon Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Challenges are all well and good but game playing is decidedly off-putting. Honesty, integrity, compassion, consideration, respect; those are what makes a woman worthwhile where I'm concerned. Game playing begets game playing between two shallow people who don't have the first idea of what a real relationship is and entails.
Porn_Guy Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Game playing begets game playing between two shallow people who don't have the first idea of what a real relationship is and entails. ha ha hahah ha....I think you've watched one too many Disney movies
lindya Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 ha ha hahah ha....I think you've watched one too many Disney movies I disagree. It seems to me that people who are very focused on playing games in their interactions with others are stuck in a developmental stage that occurs in the teenage years. Erikson defined it as "identity versus role confusion" - the time when people are trying to define to themselves who they are, but are confused in that task by the overwhelming need to gain peer acceptance. That's when they identify role models and experiment with different "personalities" in an effort to find the best fit for themselves. The kind of "here's a good game to play with other people" book the OP described just exploits immature adults can't move on from that part of their lives. People who are still overly preoccupied by the need to be deemed "cool" instead of knowing and accepting who they are - and extending that same acceptance to other people. Why would someone be a little detached in the first stages of a relationship? I'd say that for many adults it's a combination of caution and also the practical aspects of considering how to adjust one's normal routine in order to accommodate a relationship that's likely to be demanding of both time and emotion. The typical "game player" is, I suspect, a person who often struggles with a sense of powerlessness. Someone who has an abundance of unmet needs, and therefore views other people's natural caution and distance in the early stages of relationship as a frustrating and deliberate attack on their own ego. Takes the distance as a sign of rejection and perceives the other person as "playing games" rather than accepting that some people just are (by nature) a little more reserved or less emotionally needy than others. So out of a desire to retaliate and get "the upper hand", the game-player apes behaviours that are completely at odds with what's going on for him/her internally. Plays it cool when deep down he or she is feeling utterly desperate for affection and attention. Perhaps learns the act well enough to attract the type of other who will mistakenly believe that the game player is an authentic individual who will appreciate and share their need for space and independence. So that other person enters into something that is supposed to be a relationship, but ends up being more like some kind of "who can be more cool and emotionally detached in this relationship?" competition.
Curmudgeon Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 If that's your impression then I think you don't have the first idea of what a real favor porn over reality. If there isn't complete honesty then there's no relationship. It's all a sham and temporary at best. My marriage is predicated on those elements I wrote of as being essential. Perhaps one day you'll grow up and discover the value in them. You may now return to your cartoon channel and blow-up dolls/plastic fantasy women.
magichands Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 You may now return to your cartoon channel and blow-up dolls/plastic fantasy women. If only... my goddamn subscription just ran out. What am I going to use to fill my empty void, now? I'm scared.
Storyrider Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I don't guess this is what the book is about, but there is a definite sexual appeal associated with a bitch/dominatrix type in porn and just in media imagery in general. I mean there is the cliche pose with black leather stilettos and a whip... I know men like the idea of not having to dominate all the time in the bedroom. Then there is also the more subtle bitchiness that you might see in a super model posed with a sneering, curled lip. And I think those ads, like in Cosmo, are supposed to appeal to women. I wonder what the appeal is there?
lindya Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I don't guess this is what the book is about, but there is a definite sexual appeal associated with a bitch/dominatrix type in porn and just in media imagery in general. I mean there is the cliche pose with black leather stilettos and a whip... I know men like the idea of not having to dominate all the time in the bedroom. Then there is also the more subtle bitchiness that you might see in a super model posed with a sneering, curled lip. And I think those ads, like in Cosmo, are supposed to appeal to women. I wonder what the appeal is there? It's probably a lot easier to hate f*ck a one-dimensional stereotype such as "the bitch" or "the submissive". It's fine to adopt these personas for the purposes of sexual role-playing...but I'd say that's where their usefulness begins and ends.
magichands Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It's probably a lot easier to hate f*ck a one-dimensional stereotype such as "the bitch" or "the submissive". Well, if they don't have at least some depth to them, then maybe it won't be enjoyable at all? I like the idea of hate and love rolled into one big fireball of passion, though. Call me shallow.
Storyrider Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It's probably a lot easier to hate f*ck a one-dimensional stereotype such as "the bitch" or "the submissive". It's fine to adopt these personas for the purposes of sexual role-playing...but I'd say that's where their usefulness begins and ends. It is strange, though, to see a sneering woman who looks like she's about to reach out and slap you, posing to sell jewelry or perfume. Maybe they are appealing to the "bad girl" stereo type in the hopes that women want to perceive themselves that way at times.
lindya Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It is strange, though, to see a sneering woman who looks like she's about to reach out and slap you, posing to sell jewelry or perfume. Maybe they are appealing to the "bad girl" stereo type in the hopes that women want to perceive themselves that way at times. I'm sure you're right. Who doesn't want to be bad sometimes? A lot of women are buying into these images of "porno bad girl" and feeling extremely emancipated in doing so, while men are probably just happy to have their fantasies indulged..and whether or not the woman indulging them feels emancipated in doing so is only relevant insofar as it's funny. I know I'm veering off topic here, but I found this article interesting: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,,1802589,00.html
magichands Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I know I'm veering off topic here, but I found this article interesting: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/politicsphilosophyandsociety/story/0,,1802589,00.html At Cambridge university, female students have reportedly started a pole-dancing club, to practise their technique. I always had a soft spot for that place. Revolutionary.
ls3360 Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I like the idea of hate and love rolled into one big fireball of passion, though. Call me shallow. I think there are plenty of fireball personalities that have plenty of both hate and love/passion. The partner might not like the hate side, but might really enjoy the love/passion side when it comes out. Do you like the hate, or merely put up with it?
magichands Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Do you like the hate, or merely put up with it? I was kidding. I don't think there's any place for hate in a relationship. Such a wasteful emotion.
pricillia Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Originally Posted by Curmudgeon Game playing begets game playing between two shallow people who don't have the first idea of what a real relationship is and entails. Originally Posted by Porn Guy ha ha hahah ha....I think you've watched one too many Disney movies I just think that what Curmugeon is trying to say is his life experience comes into play, and he knows that there is something better out there then pursuing a bitch. Men like a challenge, you do not have to be a bitch to get a guy, and if I have to be one then I would rather be single. You don't have to give it all up right away, just let him take the time to get to know you.
orangehose Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 So out of a desire to retaliate and get "the upper hand", the game-player apes behaviours that are completely at odds with what's going on for him/her internally. Plays it cool when deep down he or she is feeling utterly desperate for affection and attention. Perhaps learns the act well enough to attract the type of other who will mistakenly believe that the game player is an authentic individual who will appreciate and share their need for space and independence. So that other person enters into something that is supposed to be a relationship, but ends up being more like some kind of "who can be more cool and emotionally detached in this relationship?" competition. I felt I had to do a good amount of this in my past relationship - constantly 'pretend' nothing was wrong and that I had very little need for him and the small amoutn of time we spent together was just fine. It was draining over the course of time. On the other hand, I would love to naturally have little need of the partner. Faking in a 'detachment' contest is a hard thing to do....
lindya Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I felt I had to do a good amount of this in my past relationship - constantly 'pretend' nothing was wrong and that I had very little need for him and the small amoutn of time we spent together was just fine. It was draining over the course of time. On the other hand, I would love to naturally have little need of the partner. Faking in a 'detachment' contest is a hard thing to do.... I don't think it's a good thing to do. There's nothing wrong with having emotional needs that you would hope a partner could fulfil by keeping in regular touch with you. If you're supposed to be in a relationship, and that person is only spending a very limited amount of time with you then it's bound to cause some upset. Having space is one thing, but relationships do require some degree of time and emotional investment on both sides in order to work. The problem with some of these books is that they're encouraging deliberate emotional detachment at a time when (maybe due to the breakdown of traditional communities and the increase in mobility) people seem to be having more and more difficulty in forming meaningful connections. They also promote the notion that there's something cool about being emotionally distant and reserved. So what does that make people who are naturally warm and affectionate? Over-emotional losers? I personally have a tendency to be a little chilly and withdrawn at times, and it's something I have to watch out for as it can make people I like and care about feel rejected. The idea of anyone actually aspiring towards that strikes me as totally bizarre. There's such a thing as being too clingy and emotionally all over the place...but what could be an emptier goal to strive towards than emotional detachment? If you're ever with another guy who makes you feel that you should be striving for it, then know that something's far wrong.
luvtoto Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 The kind of "here's a good game to play with other people" book the OP described just exploits immature adults can't move on from that part of their lives. People who are still overly preoccupied by the need to be deemed "cool" instead of knowing and accepting who they are - and extending that same acceptance to other people. Woo...good post.
Porn_Guy Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Woo...good post. i think if LINDYA lived here in the States she'd probably think differently....here, its all about the "coolness" factor.
Pyro Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 i think if LINDYA lived here in the States she'd probably think differently....here, its all about the "coolness" factor. Not if you are the type who doesn't care what other people think of you. For me the "coolness" was a stage that I went through when I was a teenager and into drugs.
magichands Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 i think if LINDYA lived here in the States she'd probably think differently....here, its all about the "coolness" factor. I don't know... the greatest concentration of superficial f*ckers is on the West coast. Seattle isn't so bad, I suppose. Are you from Cali?
Pyro Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 I don't know... the greatest concentration of superficial f*ckers is on the West coast. Seattle isn't so bad, I suppose. Are you from Cali? I don't know about that. There are plenty of those type here in the midwest.
burning 4 revenge Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 I don't know... the greatest concentration of superficial f*ckers is on the West coast. Seattle isn't so bad, I suppose. Are you from Cali? He lives in Orange County, plus he's only eighteen and he's addictd to porn, so his whole worldview is skewed.
magichands Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 I don't know about that. There are plenty of those type here in the midwest. I wish there were more girls like that around here. Just one would do. Brain-dead, with high-powered suction.
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