pureinheart Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 This thread is not meant to be rude or unbecoming, it's an area that I lack understanding. Some of the BW's throughout my personal life, and some in this forum seem to almost hate their H's and seem to have lost all respect for them. What is the purpose for staying in the M? I understand the anger and hurt....have been there myself, although it's hard/impossible for me to be around someone I don't respect.
Touche Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 I've never been (nor am I) a BW or an OW but truthfully I don't get how either one would respect and want to stay with a cheating spouse. BUT, with that being said, if I just had to choose one, I'd certainly understand the W staying before I could ever in my wildest dreams understand why an OW stays.
Guest Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 This thread is not meant to be rude or unbecoming, it's an area that I lack understanding. Some of the BW's throughout my personal life, and some in this forum seem to almost hate their H's and seem to have lost all respect for them. What is the purpose for staying in the M? I understand the anger and hurt....have been there myself, although it's hard/impossible for me to be around someone I don't respect. Did you marry him? if some of the BWs you speak about are on this forum - doesn't that answer your question of their anger? Why are they here? Are you married? And if the husbands are messing about - need I say more? Do you wash his underwear, iron his shirts, take care of the kids, cook the meals AND hold down a full time job? Or are you there for sexual gratification only - the bit on the side? Like a little holiday as it were.... I would never walk away from my husband...for better or for worse. I have faith in the institute of MARRIAGE. Maybe one day you will too.
MoonGirl Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 I don't respect my H, but not because he cheated on me. He is verbally and physically abusive. But since I don't respect him, I think the reasons for staying might be similar to those of a BW staying with her H. I stayed for so long for fear of the unknown, empty promises he made, his professed undying love for me, guilt trips, children, monetary investments, etc. Thinking about leaving and leaving are extremely painful. Men who don't want to loose their wives will say and do a lot of things, and even though my H was at fault for ruining our marriage by verbally and physically abusing me, he liked to place the blame on me (I made him mad, I didn't cook the right things for him, I didn't attend to his needs, I didn't love him as much as I should, bla, bla, bla).
NoIDidn't Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 Modern day pop-psychology tells us that Situation A + Response B = Solution Q, but that is usually not how anything works out. You can rebuild love, respect, trust, etc. in a relationship where someone is willing to do so and to deserve all the work that goes into doing it. I don't know if I am one of the Ws that you think doesn't respect her H or not, but figured I would give my 2 cents. M is more than just a piece of paper and a permanent boyfriend to some. To me, it is God-ordained and to be treated as sacred (no, I'm not Catholic). Affair or not, many things cause spouses to lose respect for each other. This is no different in that regard.
My Fair Katie Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 I've never been (nor am I) a BW or an OW but truthfully I don't get how either one would respect and want to stay with a cheating spouse. I've never been cheated on. That said, if My Fair Husband cheated I'd be devastated, my self-esteem would be crushed. BUT, I'd try to work thru it, reestablish our committment to one another. Monogamy isn't easy, it's a choice you make daily, and everyone can slip up when caught up in the excitement and emotions (no I've never cheated either, I can just see WHY people would be tempted).
Author pureinheart Posted January 12, 2007 Author Posted January 12, 2007 It's mainly in my ex-personal relationship....W doesn't respect him and I don't think ever has by the way his kids are towards him....she says shes gonna make him pay.... Mutual respect is a major part of the M....without that I don't see how a M can survive
NoIDidn't Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 It's mainly in my ex-personal relationship....W doesn't respect him and I don't think ever has by the way his kids are towards him....she says shes gonna make him pay.... Mutual respect is a major part of the M....without that I don't see how a M can survive Well in all fairness, he obviously doesn't respect her either. Women typically don't marry a man that they don't or can't respect unless under extreme duress. His having an A showed that he didn't respect her as much as he should, can't blame her if she doesn't respect him right now. And the way that the kids are towards him, maybe he's just an a$$. Children are perfectly capable of knowing which parent values them and which one doesn't. Children get tired of seeing Mom having to remind Dad about their events or Dad constantly blowing them off (especially in the case of an A, where Dad is blowing them off to cheat on their family). I hope you don't see this as some sort of bash to you. That's not my intention at all. Mutual respect is important, but why is the onus on the W and not on the cheating H?
Freedom Now Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 I think that mutual respect is an absolute building block for any relationship to survive. I feel it is impossible to love someone you do not respect. That being said, I think the onus of respect lies with both partners in a relationship. The trouble lies in this, I believe: when respect is lost, is there a way to truly regain it?
Author pureinheart Posted January 12, 2007 Author Posted January 12, 2007 If the H is willing to change and do the right thing in the M, why not respect him...I know it takes time, it's a process. Actually, if a person takes another back, no matter what the circumstances there is some sort of an agreement to make it work....why not do it all the way. Linguring, constant anger doesn't make the M...it breaks it....whether it is communicated or not, it can be felt. Not being cruel to the W in this matter at all....I realize my situation is not common and have been released from even the anger of it all. Isn't it a waste of time if one is not willing to work on it 100%....not because it is the right thing to do, but it is because the BW/BH want to do it
puddleofmud Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 Touche--love your byline! I consider myself an OW because even if I had the choice of knowing that the ex-MM was married (which I did not until after he "disappeared") I don't exactly what I would have done had he had the balls to tell me the truth. Would I have sent him out the door that very moment? I was in love and had been for several years. Would I have swallowed my pride and given in to desire and what I had depended for three years? Would I have comprehended all that in one second of truth? Which line would I have crossed? I can't say because I never had the opportunity and because I don't really know what I would have done... I would hope that I would have done the right thing, but I can't even guarantee myself that I would have at that very second, day, week, month. I don't know how long I may have struggled with the truth as I knew it as opposed to the truth as it may have been given. Or if or how long I may have continued seeing him. Even when I found out I still "wanted him"--at least the him I knew.... So when anyone is given a choice where things are emotionally murky (whether one is married or not) who knows where the "line" in the sand is drawn... It is human to feel frozen and to fear thawing out, as that may be quite wretched and painful. Sometimes it's not about what lines were crossed but more about what lines one learns that no longer can be crossed...
Author pureinheart Posted January 12, 2007 Author Posted January 12, 2007 Wow Puddle...I can't remember if you have ever posted your situation quite like that before...if you have, I missed it and am just now seeing it. That guy was good, as you are no stupid lady....he had the art of lying down....
Author pureinheart Posted January 12, 2007 Author Posted January 12, 2007 Touche--love your byline! I consider myself an OW because even if I had the choice of knowing that the ex-MM was married (which I did not until after he "disappeared") I don't exactly what I would have done had he had the balls to tell me the truth. Would I have sent him out the door that very moment? I was in love and had been for several years. Would I have swallowed my pride and given in to desire and what I had depended for three years? Would I have comprehended all that in one second of truth? Which line would I have crossed? I can't say because I never had the opportunity and because I don't really know what I would have done... I would hope that I would have done the right thing, but I can't even guarantee myself that I would have at that very second, day, week, month. I don't know how long I may have struggled with the truth as I knew it as opposed to the truth as it may have been given. Or if or how long I may have continued seeing him. Even when I found out I still "wanted him"--at least the him I knew.... So when anyone is given a choice where things are emotionally murky (whether one is married or not) who knows where the "line" in the sand is drawn... It is human to feel frozen and to fear thawing out, as that may be quite wretched and painful. Sometimes it's not about what lines were crossed but more about what lines one learns that no longer can be crossed... Puddle....some of these guys are really good at this cheating thing...and this is the point I want to drive home....and you also hit it on the other thread with my adoration towards ex-MM....this started the lack of reality for me. Seeing ex-MM "act" single...and they all do...didn't help either....his M wasn't real to me because it wasn't real to him. Not passing the buck here...just more pieces to this puzzel of understanding
Touche Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 I've never been cheated on. That said, if My Fair Husband cheated I'd be devastated, my self-esteem would be crushed. BUT, I'd try to work thru it, reestablish our committment to one another. Monogamy isn't easy, it's a choice you make daily, and everyone can slip up when caught up in the excitement and emotions (no I've never cheated either, I can just see WHY people would be tempted). Good post, MFK. I'm not sure though about monogamy being a "daily" choice (the men around where you live must be HOT and PLENTIFUL! ) But I hear you. Of course we get tempted. I know my H's head is turned every now and then. We openly discuss these things. The thing is that when a couple truly understands what commitment is all about the door is closed to any possibility of an affair. No chance for "slip-ups" if you are mature and don't give in to that kind of immediate gratification. This is why I'm not against porn, or fantasy play. It's an outlet..it's a "safe" outlet if you know where to draw the line. Many though, have disagreed with me about that subject. And thanks, Puddle! And your post was really good too.
puddleofmud Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I have chosen NOT to continue my story as to a by-line for me because I just got so tired of OW being "lumped" together as one sick, mean, betraying bunch--as I have said, I consider myself no less than any other OW because I do NOT know what I would have done differently than many OW on this forum who are currently within an affair. I could easily and I do mean EASILY be right there in his arms right this moment given the choice because that choice would have been very VERY confusing. So I am no better then anyone else thinking that I would or could have just continued the relationship because I wanted him and had been with him for a very long time. I am a damned smart cookie! I am also a very strong person, but I do not know if I would have had the strength to just "walk away". I was forced. So I've no validity to state that via my own strength I that am the one who did such! I DID NOT LEAVE nor do I know if I could have--so there you have it! I am weak as to any possible decision, perhaps blessed that I did not have to make one, and truthful that I don't know what that decision would have been. Thus, I am just another betrayed person having to let go what was once the nearest and dearest touch-stone of my life. And I am someone who, despite this, is still BREATHING. Breathing for life at any given moment... I am no different from anyone who is doing the same and the reason as to how they or I got there is not important. I plan to survive and I am not going alone! Anyone who is in the life-boat w/ me shan't be left behind...
Author pureinheart Posted January 13, 2007 Author Posted January 13, 2007 Well, I'm in that lifeboat with you girl....just trying to put the pieces of my life back together and refuse to be a doormat any longer....it is all about respect....I respect the fact concerning PEOPLE from all walks of life coming to this forum to vent and release anger about their own situation....but to be in this forum and disrespect others is quite another matter....
puddleofmud Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 One must respect each other. Even as we all sit here and complain about what has affected us--there are so many others sufferering in ways we could NEVER imagine. I come from a culture that is about generational / inherited suffering-- that which is genocidal. Life is short, history is in the making at every juncture of one's life through one's own actions. I am a living and breathing history. I have few precious years in this place created as I am--so I choose not to abuse what I am, much less another. Doing so abuses what creates. No matter what one believes: "God" does not create JUNK. All creation is invaluable. All experience within creation is invaluable. I love what Mother Teresa said, "We are all God's Prayers in Action". I may really SUCK sometimes with my actions, I suck worse in understanding my actions and how I use myself; but I do know that I plan to be "in action" for as long as I am allowed. I may not have the perfect life that I imagine or desire--I may not have anything I "want'. But I do have the freedom to choose and I do have the freedom to activate. I feel that a major part of that choice is about self-respect. I am NOT JUNK and I owe MY creation to be one of respect and goodness. I would rather respect myself and be filled with humility than be lost without painful experiences that are humbling. Even when I am very frustrated about being humble and too angry to care something always reminds me that that others are in far worse situations. Statistics state that every six seconds a woman is violently raped, every six minutes a woman is murdered by someone she knows (usually in her own home and mostly w/ children present), every six hours a woman is abused to the point of death, every six days a woman dies due to physical abuse, for every sixty cases of rape, only two make it to trial and for every rape case that goes to trial .006 cases result in conviction. Rapist have the average incarceration of less then six months due parole. Violent rapists commit rape on average less than six months after release. Serial rapists have little stats as they may seem to go "years" but that may be due to under-reporting as they move from one area to another. One would think this is a "world" average--it is not--this is the good old US of A. Respect for women, and we as sisters should be a concern. Though men are NOT at all evil--we do have much to face and much to be concerned as women--for ourselves and our daughters. For our sons and their wives. We, as women should be more aware of what we have to offer each other as opposed to shooting each other down.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 What is the purpose for staying in the M? If I told you, I don't think you could wrap your brain around it. Your head might explode. Nah, you just wouldn't understand. I think it is too complex to begin to explain it to people who have never gone through it. For instance, you don't really know what a divorce is really like, until you have gone through it. You never experienced rejection, unless you have gone through it. And you havent experienced being reborn again, you wouldn't until you have fallen so low and the person that is there for you is the one that hurt you and offers you his hand.
Author pureinheart Posted January 13, 2007 Author Posted January 13, 2007 What is the purpose for staying in the M? If I told you, I don't think you could wrap your brain around it. Your head might explode. Nah, you just wouldn't understand. I think it is too complex to begin to explain it to people who have never gone through it. For instance, you don't really know what a divorce is really like, until you have gone through it. You never experienced rejection, unless you have gone through it. And you havent experienced being reborn again, you wouldn't until you have fallen so low and the person that is there for you is the one that hurt you and offers you his hand. Hey RMD... I don't know why don't you give it a try....I know this sounds bad, but here goes, I mean what do I really have to loose..... I can relate to the divorce thing...4 of them, all ex's cheated, 1 left me for the OW....all ex's wanted me back, guess I wasn't that bad after all???? Rejection...am a pro....right now am numb to rejection, am numb to almost everything. I am at an all time low right now, have been "here" many times, but have a better understanding at this point in my life....the hand that was extended was the people I worked with, which was a big surprise. Many of my M friends loathe their spouses for whatever reason...the ex-situation, he has cheated on her several times, she hates him, but stays in the M....in LS some of the ladies seem to despise their H's.... Obviously there is little or no respect for the H/W....you can always tell where is a person is at by what is said....what is in the heart comes out of the mouth.
NoIDidn't Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 If the H is willing to change and do the right thing in the M, why not respect him...I know it takes time, it's a process. Because it is hard to respect someone when they have done the most despicable thing/s to you and don't want to have to repay you in some way. And, yes I do mean repay. I don't have that problem in my M, as my H really isn't the typical MM. He was so bad at it, I found out immediately. When he made the decision to stay M'd to me. He, too made the decision to right some wrongs. That's why I ask the question of why the onus is on the W. The H in your case wants to be forgiven without doing anything more than giving more of the same ole, same ole. He doesn't deserve her respect, if you ask me. But I also see where she is shooting herself in the "marital" foot. Someone has to make a move to restore things, if that is what they (the H and W) really want. I just don't know if it should be her. But somebody's got to end the standoff.
My Fair Katie Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Good post, MFK. I'm not sure though about monogamy being a "daily" choice (the men around where you live must be HOT and PLENTIFUL! ) I live between three meccas of hottness. UNC, Duke, and NCSU. Hotties galore! Come visit. I'll buy you lunch and share my binoculars.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Well in one word I'd call it a little miricle. We were married but it's more like a family thing. Declared a truce. He has a place here and he is needed to be a good husband and a father. You wouldn't think we would reconcille, but we can't live without one another. I'm describing the feeling like you lost the use of your right arm. He his left when we are not together. He is a huge goofball. He says all the wrong things sometimes, but he works hard and he does try to be what I want him to be. He asks me all the time what I want and now I am no longer a dummy whose opinion doesnt matter anymore. He wont disrespect me. He's devoted to me. We're out in public together, going to the company dinner as a couple. In private I can put him to sleep just touching his feet like they were baby feet. I can make him bust something just saying the words "I want you to tie me up and do bad things to me." because I know everything about him. It's fun to be reconcilled.
Author pureinheart Posted January 13, 2007 Author Posted January 13, 2007 Well in one word I'd call it a little miricle. We were married but it's more like a family thing. Declared a truce. He has a place here and he is needed to be a good husband and a father. You wouldn't think we would reconcille, but we can't live without one another. I'm describing the feeling like you lost the use of your right arm. He his left when we are not together. He is a huge goofball. He says all the wrong things sometimes, but he works hard and he does try to be what I want him to be. He asks me all the time what I want and now I am no longer a dummy whose opinion doesnt matter anymore. He wont disrespect me. He's devoted to me. We're out in public together, going to the company dinner as a couple. In private I can put him to sleep just touching his feet like they were baby feet. I can make him bust something just saying the words "I want you to tie me up and do bad things to me." because I know everything about him. It's fun to be reconcilled. Wow....go for it girl....make it work, he sounds like a really good guy....trust me, those are hard to find....BUT I think I might have found one also.....((((((((hugs))))))))
Author pureinheart Posted January 14, 2007 Author Posted January 14, 2007 Because it is hard to respect someone when they have done the most despicable thing/s to you and don't want to have to repay you in some way. And, yes I do mean repay. I don't have that problem in my M, as my H really isn't the typical MM. He was so bad at it, I found out immediately. When he made the decision to stay M'd to me. He, too made the decision to right some wrongs. That's why I ask the question of why the onus is on the W. The H in your case wants to be forgiven without doing anything more than giving more of the same ole, same ole. He doesn't deserve her respect, if you ask me. But I also see where she is shooting herself in the "marital" foot. Someone has to make a move to restore things, if that is what they (the H and W) really want. I just don't know if it should be her. But somebody's got to end the standoff. Concerning these people (ex-MM and W)...they do horrible things to each other....it is really a mess, I could never imagine my life that way.... I just don't understand...life is too short for games.... If my husband has issues, they are exposed time and time again, and I stay, it does no good to get mad, hurt, whatever unless you like pain.
NoIDidn't Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 It is so good that you got out, Pure. I couldn't imagine living my life like that either, but I know several couples that do. She stays after he cheats, and cheats, and cheats. But, I figure, not my problem. That, and they are all such negative people: always expecting the worst from a situation. And that is usually exactly what they get. Its a kind of insanity. I can't say for certain what I would do if my H cheated again. I don't think that he will as he has really made a complete turnaround in many ways, but I am not so naive to say that he wouldn't absolutely. And neither is he. I am the child of a cheater, so there's so many directions I could take in a moment of weakness (or several moments if I keep making the wrong choices for me). I just don't believe in the "make him pay" mentality. I don't need the bitterness and anger eating away at me and stealing my vitality, destroying my dreams. They always pay. I just don't have to be the hand that rocks that cradle.
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