How long do I keep the fight up

[shockandawed]

I am a 42 year old male who has been with his fiance for almost 3 years. The second week of Dec, I took her on a cruise with my parents for her 40th Birthday, great, great week.

 

The following week, she became quite irritable for a few days, leading up to a major meltdown the Tuesday before Christmas. Honestly, over petty and minor stuff, she was looking for a fight. After she quit screaming, I tried for a couple of hours to fix it up and try logic, no use. By Thursday, she wasnt taking my calls. On Saturday before Christmas, she met me in a mall parking lot to give me my kids presents I was hiding at her house. Looked right through me and only would say she would have the engagement ring dismantled (she paid for the band) after the holidays and left.She has had a couple of situations like this in the past and after a few days, she would come out of it. NC through Christmas and NYE until last week. Saw her on IM, she was very coarse, admitted to seeing someone and wanted to take care of a few outstanding issues. Said some very hurtful things and went back into hiding. She did admit to seeing someone a coworker who is also a neighbor set her up with.

 

Background, she has a teenage daughter and I have a teenage daughter and teenage son. We have often discussed marriage but never getting past the basics. She shelters her daughter and is somewhat critical of mine at times. We did take the girls on a few trips together, they get along well but my daughter had a drama fit at me on one and it has been a thorn with my fiance ever since. "My daughter doesnt act that way, so it must be parenting". Anyway, other than those issues, our relationship is amazing. We have taken many weekend trips together, and really have a lot in common. It is truly a very passionate and fullfilling one for the most part. We also live about 30 miles apart and both share custody with our exs. No real issues there. I am comfortable waiting a few years for marriage until the kids are at least in college. Apparently she isn't. She has dropped hints and comments but never told me now or never. She is also very afraid if she moves or gets married, her daughter will want to live with her Dad f/t. He bought a house just down the street from hers. Good intentions but she has no incentive to leave the neighborhood now.

 

Back to now, more NC after the negative IMs until the middle of this week. She sent a very nice email indicating she would be near my home on Thursday for her daughters swim meet. She could have the diamond for me then if I wanted to meet her. I replied that wouldn't it just be easier to leave it at the store and I could pick it up there. She kept throwing out reasons to no do that until she finally asked if I was afraid to see her? Stewed on that all day, was this a break finally?

 

I broke down last night and called her. She actually took the call. It was very friendly. Got past basic small talk and told her she was on my mind constantly. She said she was truly sorry but couldnt see a way to ever move forward until her daughter was gone. I asked if the daughter had any problem with me and she said no, just didnt think she would be comfortable living with 2 other kids. We then starting talking about different options we had never discussed before. Like having my kids on different weeks for awhile. Again, they are all teens, 17 year old boy and 15 and 14 on the girls. Also, I could move to where she is at and my kids could stay with their mother on school nights. There were some more stuff but she said it was a shame we didnt discuss earlier. Too late now. I said never too late. We talked some more and I finally told her I would do anything possible to set a date and make a plan to get there. She asked how she could know I was serious this time. Told her not sure but to take my word. We finally hung up with her saying she needed some time to sort through everything.

 

I decided to drive to the swim meet tonight. I took a single rose along with a card that simply said, I thought about our phone call, you asked how you could be sure this time, this is a small token to show my sincerity and commitment to what we discussed. I was going to just leave it on her windshield but it was raining. So I waited for her, called her to the car and gave it to her. Told her didn't want to discuss, that the card would explain. She was very upset because apparently her daughter has a rival on the team, who beat the daughter by .0600. When it was over, the rivals mother shouted take that bitch!! Naturally, my ex fiance was furious over that. Her ex hubby was still inside trying to cool everyone off. So this probably wasn't the best night to make my case. But nothing I could do about it now. Anyhow, she saw her ex coming out and wanted to see what was handled inside. Said she would call me and got out.

 

I waited until about 10:30 then curiosity got me. I called her and told her I just wanted to make sure she got home safely with the wet roads and her emotional state. She was very friendly again and talked a little about the rose etc... She claimed she was exhausted, which I am sure she was. I told her to get some sleep and we could talk later. She agreed and h/u. Never thanked me for the rose, but that is ok. I don't want to be too pushy but I want this over whatever the outcome. I am a wreck.

 

I will wait for her to call now. I am not handling this part well at all.

[RecordProducer]

I don't get this and it's 1,30 am here. As much as I understood, she wants to marry you, right? And that's OK, but she doesn't want to live with your children. Is she actually trying to get you to marry her, because she needs a provider, but at the same time she doesn't want your kids so she wants you to ditch them to their mom? Is this what it's all about?

 

I think you should think of your children first. Don't fall for ultimatums and screw your kids up at their most sensitive age. You might also wanna try to live together first and see how you all get along. The worst drama happens when step-children are involved. I was a step-mom and it was very difficult for me. Your amazing love might turn into a nightmare very easily.

 

It sounds like you're being pushed to choose between your children and your lover. I broke up with a guy, because he couldn't accept the fact that I had two children. I found a man who adores my children. I've also had a step-father who was a monster. Knowing what I know, I would NEVER EVER live with a person who doesn't love my sons (if they are living with us).

[norajane]

So, you've been engaged for 3 years with no actual plans for getting married, and she doesn't want to live with your children. Or is it she doesn't want her daughter to live with your children?

 

Whatever it is, I agree with RP. Your kids come first. How do you think they'll feel being shunted around when stop-mom comes to live with you? Don't you think "step-monster" is what they'll be calling her? Not fair to them to change around your whole living arrangements.

 

Also, she's got some issues. You don't end a relationship like yours so suddenly and by freaking out like a psycho-bitch. Her attitude about your kids is most disturbing, though. Sorry, but you're a package deal.

 

Personally, I'm not sure why you want her back. But if you're dead-set on having her, then do nothing at this point. You've laid your cards on the table - she knows what you have to offer. Wait until she gets rid of her other boyfriend(s) before you continue any more discussions with her about your future. Then find out if she's ready to commit to your future, but don't beg, plead, call her all the time, or send her emails.

 

And make sure you don't lose your children's trust and respect in the end.

[shockandawed]

I think it's more a fear of losing her daughter than non acceptance of mine. She lives in a small town and in the same house since before the daughter was born. Nice, quiet subdivision. The ex husband bought a house down the street. They alternate weeks but the daughter easily goes back and forth. She is a mini me of her mother. They have a tight, one on one relationship. Good kid, but somewhat introverted. Good student, room is meticulously neat and orderly.

 

I live about 30 miles away in a growing, suburban community. My son lives with me f/t and my daughter half the time. My daughter on the other hand is quite extroverted. She is an overall good kid, but phones, socializing, computers are the focus of her life. Her room is a disaster.

 

We spent a week this summer at a resort for a trade show. Took the girls. They got along great for the entire week and spent alot of time together. The ride home was about 8 hours. We were 2 hours from home when we stopped for dinner. My daughter got a cell call from one of her friends at home. Wanting her to meet them that night. I told her no, it would be too late when we got back, and I didn't feel like running her around anyway. Of course she didn't like that and went into a teenage drama fit. So unfair, never get to see my friends, I hate you etc..I kept my cool and did not buckle either. I definitely didn't want to make a scene in front of her daughter. Anyway, the fiance cant take the entire week for what it accomplished, just focuses on that one incident at the end of a long week and ride home. In spite of the differences of the girls, they do like each other. IM some back and forth, have pics of each in their rooms, etc..

 

In the past, we have talked of marrying and finding a place in between. However, what little she has discussed of that with the daughter, she always just says she will live with Dad, doesnt want to leave her surroundings. I would never make her leave without the daughter so I just drop it. As I said above, we never really talked about other options. Partly my fault as I was happy just waiting.

 

The fiance feels isolated and lonely in her small town. Feels everyone talks about her and has few friends. She works in a small office with a moody co worker. This co worker also lives across the street. She is constantly telling the fiance that I am just stringing her along, never will commit and that people dont have 5 year engagements. She has brought these concerns up before. I try to reassure her, but dismiss them as quit worrying about the silly stuff, who cares, type responses. I think this in her mind, along with hitting 40 put her in a depressive state. She would make the comments, I am fat (not), 40 and alone.

 

My son started living with me f/t about a year ago. We have never spent the night at either house if a kid is there. This has resulted in her spending half her time alone in her house. And I know she gets lonely. The relationship between my ex and son has improved greatly now and they could go back to staying together. There was never any real problems other than he wanted to stay in his own room and he did blame my ex for our divorce. But I think that is behind now. He goes over there on his own quite a bit.

 

The bottom line is I was happy as it was, she apparently wasn't. She was introduced to someone who lives there in her town by the moody co worker. No commuting issues and I guess she figures he can keep her warm at night. That part really hurts. I do see her side better now, and what sucks is that there are other solutions. We just never communicated to them.

[shockandawed]

Just a side note.

 

On the cruise in December, she acted great. She spent time every night going through the pictures of us taken and bought several couples shots. We were with my parents and a couple of friends. She and my mom spent time together and she even made Christmas Eve dinner plans with her. We were going to cook it here at my place. Nothing to indicate what the next week would bring.

 

This is why my name is Shocked and Awed!

[littlekitty]

Hmmm to me she sounds a little like hard work. But I'm only seeing that from what you've written here.

 

Lone parents with children should always be accepted as a package deal. Because that's exactly what they are. I think the offers to ship off your children and change their routine and lives just for her are selfish on your behalf and hers. Your children may well end up resenting you and her for it. They are old enough to completely see why you are doing it, and understand what is going on.

 

She is the mother - the adult, her daughter is the child. Ok, so everytime they speak about it she threatens to go live with Daddy. Come on... all children do that when they're being asked to do something they don't want to. Did she ever actually sit down and discuss with her daughter what her reasons are for saying that? Why she didn't want to live with you and your children?

 

For my 2 cents, I'd say you need to man up and put your children first. Find someone who will accept them and you - as the package deal you are. If she can't deal with her daughter that is.

[shockandawed]

I here you littlekitty,

 

But it's not like she is demanding or I am just abandoning. We live 30 miles apart. Both our exs live near us and in the same school districts where our kids are at now. Obviously when you live that far apart, someone has to bend.

We never looked beyond a middle ground, which honestly, disrupts all three.

 

My ex is a good person and capable parent. Her ex appears to be a fine one as well. My fiance works at an office near her home. I am in regional sales and have my office in my house. As long as I can get internet, it doesn't matter where I live. My ex wife and I have discussed in the past that we feel our daughter needs a more stable routine. She is disorganized and truthfully, the going back and forth all the time doesn't help. Her grades are slipping. She needs a structure. Regardless of what happens with my fiance, I feel the need to implement this on my daughter. My son drives, and is doing well. He will have only his senior year left of high school. He would be welcomed to move but I am sure he would like to finish out at the same school. Spending his last year at his mothers during the week isn't punishing him. He could come over whenever he wanted. Between his job, student activities and such, its just a sleeping place anyway.

 

These are pretty much my ideas anyhow. She is being pretty tightlipped and guarded right now.

[dgiirl]

My main problem with your situation is that your gf deliberately picks a fight so that you two will break up and then starts seeing someone. If she seriously had doubts or concerns over your relationship, she should have communicated that to you. You mentioned that she kinda did, but that you didnt take her concerns seriously. So yes, you are partly to blame, but her actions are still uncalled for. She's already had one failed marriage and yet wants to get remarried, but it doesnt sound like she's learned anything from her past mistakes. She should have simply gone up to you and said "Listen buddy, I want to get married and if you dont take my feelings seriously, I'm leaving you". Instead she takes the passive way out and creates situations where she can escape the blame. Sometimes the spouse needs to be knocked over the head to get the message, and yet she doesnt seem to want to do that.

 

Do you really want to be with someone who doesnt seem to have learned from past mistakes?

 

If she comes back, I think before you take it any further, you both need to get into some pre-marital counselling. You guys are not fighting fairly. Her criticizeing your daughter and comparing yours and her's is not right. It puts you into a position of having to choose between your gf and your daughter. That's not working together to build a marriage, but causing a rift in your family.

 

I'm not trying to villianize your gf, but there are some basic communication methods your gf doesnt get. And you wont have a chance to ever have a successful marriage until you both get it.

[littlekitty]

Yep dgiirl has some really good points there! Your ex did deal with the break-up in a highly immature way - but that's just IMO.

 

That's all good shockedandawed, as long as the changes you make to your childrens routines are genuinely for their benefit as well as yours. And if I were you, I would talk to them about it and make sure that they understand that, if you don't there's a good chance they'll believe the only reason you're making the changes is for your own benefit. Make sure you discuss it with them and find out how they feel. I would say they are old enough to be a part of the decision now, rather than handed a decision on a plate and told to get on with it.

 

As I said before, their welfare has to come first.

 

You didn't mention if she had really discussed the reasons for her daughter not wanting to move? Do you know?

 

If you do go ahead, then make sure that she is bending as much as you. You BOTH will need to make changes and sacrifices. It shouldn't only be you. And you will no doubt end up resenting it if you are the only one bending.

 

I'm a step-mom myself, so I do understand the issues and sacrifices that these situations bring into a relationship. And when I met my partner I accepted that he and his son were a package deal. I couldn't have one without the other, and I wouldn't want it any other way, regardless of the problems and stresses it brings to the relationship.

 

It's just one more thing we have to cope with. The only way to cope with it is communication, communication, communication. Without that, and a whole lot of giving on either side, we'd be no where. Instead we are happy and looking forward to getting married this year.

 

I try to view his son as a bonus to my life, not a hindrance. Whilst that isn't always easy, I find it the best way forward. No, I don't always agree with how his son is treated, or how he is being raised. But I discuss these things openly and honestly with him. I say 'When we have children I would expect x to be done differently, how do you feel about that?'.... and we go from there. There are going differences, because he only sees his son at weekend, so I except that.

[shockandawed]

Thanks so much for the responses and I generally agree with all that is said.

 

Like I said, it really isn't a rejection of mine as a fear of losing hers. As recent as November, she bought tickets for me, her and my son to see a Broadway production in a nearby city. She has attended my kids activities and generally treats them very well.

 

I honestly don't think there has been any deep conversations between her and her daughter on the subject. The daughter has made those comments about just living with Dad and she backs off. I am not in a position to tell her to go ahead and call her bluff. If we did, and it backfired......not good. It's just basically that the daughter has always lived in the house, the neighborhood and has the same friends. Never been exposed to change. And doesn't have to with the father just down the street.

 

Yes, if we were to save this, it would involve counseling and new communication techniques...maybe even some meds:p

[littlekitty]

Thanks so much for the responses and I generally agree with all that is said.

 

Like I said, it really isn't a rejection of mine as a fear of losing hers. As recent as November, she bought tickets for me, her and my son to see a Broadway production in a nearby city. She has attended my kids activities and generally treats them very well.

 

I honestly don't think there has been any deep conversations between her and her daughter on the subject. The daughter has made those comments about just living with Dad and she backs off. I am not in a position to tell her to go ahead and call her bluff. If we did, and it backfired......not good. It's just basically that the daughter has always lived in the house, the neighborhood and has the same friends. Never been exposed to change. And doesn't have to with the father just down the street.

 

Yes, if we were to save this, it would involve counseling and new communication techniques...maybe even some meds:p

 

Then my only comment now is that if she really wanted this, she could have (and SHOULD have) opened up the door of communication with her daughter about this. Her daughter may have had fears and worries that she could have spoken about. It should have been a discussion anyway, and she should have opened it up for discussion.

 

I wouldn't and wasn't suggesting she just call her daughters bluff. Yes that could backfire and hurt all involved. But she could have spoken with her daughter and got to the bottom of her daughters feelings instead of just backing off.

 

Yes her daughter may fear all those things. And yes, her daughter may have a very easy option to have everything stay the same. But, her daughter also may have been willing to talk and discuss her fears and concerns. Her daughter may not be too worried about staying in the same neighorhood with the same friends. She may just have had some minor worry. You're only guessing on what you know of her. But neither of you REALLY know, but no one took the time to ask and communicate with her.

 

It sounds to me as if this lady needs some fast and deep lessons on how to communicate with everyone, most especially her loved ones. Just backing off through fear doesn't help her, or her daughter IMO.

[dgiirl]

It sounds to me as if this lady needs some fast and deep lessons on how to communicate with everyone, most especially her loved ones. Just backing off through fear doesn't help her, or her daughter IMO.

 

LK, I think you are absolutely right in this. It's not about imposing herself by making decisions for others, but about actually opening up to people and giving _them_ the opportunity to discuss things with her. Her daughter threatens to move in with her father and the mom is paralyzed. The only options she sees is either retreat and give into her daughter, or impose her decisions upon her daughter. It doesnt sound like she gives people the opportunity to discuss their feelings and work towards resolving those issues so both parties can be happy.

[littlekitty]

LK, I think you are absolutely right in this. It's not about imposing herself by making decisions for others, but about actually opening up to people and giving _them_ the opportunity to discuss things with her. Her daughter threatens to move in with her father and the mom is paralyzed. The only options she sees is either retreat and give into her daughter, or impose her decisions upon her daughter. It doesnt sound like she gives people the opportunity to discuss their feelings and work towards resolving those issues so both parties can be happy.

 

Thanks dgiirl. I think that until she recognises this and works on it, she's doomed to have unsuccessful relationships. It's a shame that this no doubt effecting her relationship with her daughter, and quite possibly that her daughter is learning the same communication issues.

[shockandawed]

While I agree she should have worked harder on communicating her feelings with both me and her daughter, I see a little of why on both.

 

As far as her daughter, they are very close. The daughter does great in school and is a good kid. She also did the majority of the raising. The ex supposedly was decent, but did his thing. She and her daughter were left to themselves for the most part. Her daughter is her life. Her parents are divorced and neither live anywhere near here, and she has few friends. I really hope to not make her sound as some aloof and distant parent. Other than afraid to communicate her feelings about me toward her, she is a very involved mother.

 

As far as me. Again, you are correct, she is out of line. But depression can do that to you. 95% of the time she is the most loving person on the planet. She feels I don't always listen or that I sometimes make her feel stupid. Example when she brings up concerns about what others are saying about our long engagement. I don't face that problem so I don't understand it. I tell her to quit worrying about the silly stuff, who cares what people say, etc..but I know I don't have to listen to it. I also know that is her way of telling me she needs more. Not the most effective, but it is. Those thoughts continue to build in her slowly until she reaches a breaking point or is exposed to a possible solution.

 

Regarding the blowup before Christmas. We had planned to have Christmas Eve dinner at my house for the three kids and my parents, like we did last year. She told me during her blowup that her daughter had expressed a preference in going with her Dad that night to her own Granparents house. I understood that as it was her family, but my fiance took it as a rejection of us. She said, my ex husband can provide my daughter with a family at Christmas and I can't. That tells me where her mind has been getting to. She really believes that stuff. Then add the fears the coworker puts in her head and she just melted and bolted.

 

She is showing signs of coming around, very small ones though. I know with help we can make this an amazing relationship. I just don't want to push too hard. I see she has made herself available online this morning. Don't know if I should reach out more or just wait on her now. She does know how I feel. I don't want to be too pushy as I do believe it best to practice some NC. But, if she is opening up, I feel like I need to jump in and grab her now.

[RecordProducer]

I definitely didn't want to make a scene in front of her daughter.

So you both walk on eggs because of the kids and can't show your true feelings. Oh, how that sounds familiar! You can't see it now, but if you start living together, you'd see how much holding back you'd both have to do because of the kids who are not mutual.

 

what little she has discussed of that with the daughter, she always just says she will live with Dad, doesnt want to leave her surroundings.

Obviously things are not as great as you think between her daughter and your family. She refuses to live with you and your children. Although she may have never shown it openly, she IS bothered by your children. It's a female instinct. Believe it or not, even though I have two sons, I wanted to marrya guy without children, because I know in advance that I would be jealous of his kids and his love for them. I am even jealous of my husband's twin brother, because hubby seems to put him before me too often. And if he had kids, they would naturally come before me. I was very jealous of my ex-husband's daughter. Your GF can't stand the fact that you love your kids more than you love her and her daughter. I's a pure instinct that she can't fight successfully. Unless she gets along perfectly with your kids and shows a lot of affection and desire to spend time with them (like my new hubby with my kids), trust me - she hates their guts.

 

 

The fiance feels isolated and lonely in her small town. Feels everyone talks about her and has few friends. She works in a small office with a moody co worker. This co worker also lives across the street. She is constantly telling the fiance that I am just stringing her along, never will commit and that people dont have 5 year engagements. She has brought these concerns up before. I try to reassure her, but dismiss them as quit worrying about the silly stuff, who cares, type responses. I think this in her mind, along with hitting 40 put her in a depressive state. She would make the comments, I am fat (not), 40 and alone.

You're spreading up everything in a hundred different places. She wants to marry you and she wants your kids out of the picture. She also probably wants

YOU to move into her area so she can keep her daughter and at the same time you would be far enough from your kids. She broke up and is bringing a third party in between you in order to put you on your knees and make you say: "I'll do whatever you want, just tell me what you want!" Very clever of her, I have to admit.

 

If she was seeing another guy, because she got tired of you or fell in love with someone else, she would be hiding it from you. But she is bragging about it in the name of "honesty" to remind you that if you don't want her, someone else will have her. And she might actually have someone and you might lose her, but it won't be because of him. Ask her what she wants and tell her that you will do anything she wants, but you will stop comunicating with her until she contacts you with a deisre to talk. When she states her demands and reveals her cards, you can decide if she is asking too much and if you can meet her requests. She has to spill it out eventually, because she broke up with you in order to achieve something, not to get rid of you.

The bottom line is I was happy as it was, she apparently wasn't.

Is your income much higher than hers?

[shockandawed]

Thanks Record Producer!!!

 

Many things to consider there. To answer your question at the end. No, it's not about money. I do make more, but her house is nearly paid off and her father is extremely well off. He sends large checks at the end of the year to avoid taxes. I don't have much and she doesn't need it. It's about being lonely. I do really believe that!

[shockandawed]

Well, I think I answered the title of my thread.

 

Had a long IM with her this afternoon. Started off well, thanked me for the rose, said it was VERY sweet. I started down the road of hoping you know what it meant. She gave me the how do I know it will be different question. Acted skeptical but interested. Chatted for a long time, eventually going into I don't know what to say, I have moved on and not interested in going backwards.

 

Why did we have to go through all of that to get to that? Anyhow, told her I regretted that, because I felt like I was losing my best friend as well. She said she felt the same way. I told her everything reminds me of her and she said she agrees. I said it feels so wasted and again she agreed. But she wants to move on and needed to get offline. I asked her to call, she said not really anything else to say. I admitted that I was afraid this would be the last time I ever speak to her, she said it probably would be for the best. I sucked it up and told her that ok, but I want to end it on the truth. I loved her with all my heart, and would never forget the amazing times we shared and thanks for a great adventure. She said she wouldn't ever forget either, bye and logged off.

 

Sorry, I know everyone knows the feeling of hurt on here. I did just lose my best friend as well as lover. I have to go into NC for good now. Thanks for all your help and support. I will need a lot of it to get through this.

[norajane]

I'm sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted. I truly am surprised how abrubtly she ended such a long relationship, but I suspect she's thinking new guy she just met is going to be her Prince Charming.

 

In any case, NC is the right way to go at this point. You may have considered her your best friend, but I still maintain a friend wouldn't treat you that way, and she'd have your kids' interests at heart if she did really intend to marry you.

 

Keep posting here as often as you need to vent - there are a lot of very supportive folks here who will listen.

[RecordProducer]

She is waiting for a proposal!!! Until then she is "not interested and has moved on."

 

She basically gave you the ultimatum. Propose to her if you love her so much and she will be yours. If you don't want to marry her then accept the fact that you've lost her. You really have only those two options and nothing in between. If I were you, I'd do it before she sleeps with someone else.

 

However, don't agree to put her before your kids. They deserve the best of you. Good luck!

[shockandawed]

RP,

 

If that is her twisted way to get a proposal then she is screwed!

 

You know, in my heart I knew this was wrong, but she had some spell on me that I cannot explain. I know I deserve better, and starting now, I am going to demand better. I actually went out tonight with an air of confidence I haven't had since I started dating her.

 

I am not over her, but I am tired of the frickin BS. I am not looking back now, onward, upward!!!!

[RecordProducer]

Hey, don't listen to me about what she thinks, I might be wrong. But I can bet that I have some slim chances (about 93%) to be right.

 

Ask her "Would you marry me?" If she says NO, you say: "Good!"

 

If she says YES, say: "Was just checking."

 

Seriously, ASK HER what she wants. You can always suggest to move in together (or close!) and then change your mind. It's nasty, but not a break-deal like if you propose and then back out. My husband got cold feet and still didn't lose me though.

 

She gave me the how do I know it will be different question. Acted skeptical but interested

What exactly does she want different? Skeptical but interested sounds like saying "no, no, no" but waiting to hear if you will say something about getting married or not.

[shockandawed]

RP,

 

In the phone call the other night, I specifically told her, I thought we could get married by the summer. Just like the breakdown she had before Christmas, she throws everything she can out to avoid the real issues. She can't handle being alone or telling the truth.

 

She was married by 20, and with me before her divorce was final. In fact, I really believe she hadn't filed until she was sure about us. I got several conflicting stories on that. In the beginning, she was very secretive about coming to her house, claiming she was freshly seperated with a 12 year old daughter at home she had to protect. I should have ran then. There were several other lies at the time. At first she told me the ex hadn't seen the daughter in several months, which later I found out not to be true as she later admitted he was still living there. She convinced me that her ex and her strictly coexisted for several years for the daughter. That he had been sleeping in the basement for over 2 years, no sexual contact during that period, and he went and did his own thing on his free time. In the back of my mind, I don't think I ever completely bought it, but at the time I swallowed it hook, line and sinker. I guess I convinced myself if this guy could completely shut out his wife, a girl like this, then he needed to go. That if he was into the marriage, she would never be out there looking. I specifically remember telling a friend during this time, I am somewhat concerned about how this girl is affecting me. It was like I couldn't control myself. She had some pull on my heart, (still does) that I had never experienced before. I worked real hard at keeping things light and casual until I was sure he had moved out.

 

Throughout the relationship, there were other small, but strange lies I caught her in. About a year ago, while cruising a dating site (honestly, just playing on the net bored one night) I stumbled across her profile. No pic, but definitely her. Same name and info she used when I met her. Guess what? When I confronted her about it, she flipped the whole discussion on why I was on there looking? It actually ended up with me defending myself. Crazy, I know. She had a best friend from high school, who still lives in the small town where she is at. I finally met her about a month ago, bumped into at a mall. Always had excuses why we hadn't met. Maybe valid, but I always thought something strange there. She always told me, that her friends first husband had died suddenly from a heart defect in his late 20s. Again, one night bored, I was playing around on Classmates. Looked up her high school class. This friend, turns out to be queen bee of the class message board. In one posts, she mentions she didn't go to her 5 year reunion because she was going through a painful and bitter divorce. Of course, when I brought this up, I was screamed at for not trusting her and snooping up on her. To this day, has never answered that discrepency. Her Dad lives in FL, and I have met him on a couple of occasions. Of course, never as the fiance. She claimed she wanted him to know me better. Her Mom lives in WV and I have never met her. She had a somewhat strained relationship with her, or at least that is what she told me. Said her Mom is crazy and if I ever met her, I would dump her in a heartbeat. She has one brother in TN, who seems like a great guy and we spent quite alot of time over Thanksgiving with him and his wife. The ring was hidden then as well though, again, wanted him to know me better. I just learned to just pick my battles. But in the back of my mind, I didn't completely trust everything she said.

 

With all that said, honestly, she had a great side. It was really like two different people. We talked so much. Truly enjoyed each others company. She always was going out of her way to show me love. Could be very thoughtful. 95% of the time making me feel like the most loved man on the planet. And that is what hooked me.

 

She had ovarian cancer a few years back and had a hysterectomy. I have always thought that maybe her extreme swings could be attributed to that.

 

So RP, a long ramble to your post. I am not going back again. I layed it out to her the other night. Knowing in my mind, if she did crack and want to come back, that major counseling and meds would probably be required. As she probably had me lined up before getting out of her marriage, I am sure she became disillusioned and had this all lined up before dumping me. It was only sudden to myself. The blowup and issues she throws out are nothing but deflections from the truth.

 

I will admit this hurts like hell. Getting her back would have stopped the pain, well probably only temporarily. I have to let it burn and get out now. I admitted some of this crazy stuff to get it off my chest and in the hope that I would be too embarrased to ever come back on here and talk about trying to reconcile.

 

Nora, thanks for your kind words as well. You are right, I will need to vent a bunch to get through this. But I will heal someday and be better than ever. I have been all over these forums and the info is priceless. I think I have found here a group of new friends who can help me with my journey.

 

Thanks to all.

[Guest]

Hey, don't listen to me about what she thinks, I might be wrong. But I can bet that I have some slim chances (about 93%) to be right.

 

Ask her "Would you marry me?" If she says NO, you say: "Good!"

 

If she says YES, say: "Was just checking."

 

Seriously, ASK HER what she wants. You can always suggest to move in together (or close!) and then change your mind. It's nasty, but not a break-deal like if you propose and then back out. My husband got cold feet and still didn't lose me though.

 

What exactly does she want different? Skeptical but interested sounds like saying "no, no, no" but waiting to hear if you will say something about getting married or not.

 

WELL, I ALREADY DID THAT - LOL

 

BESIDES, U DO THAT LIVE. WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN EACH OTHER YET. SHE KNOWS ACTUALLY WHAT I WANT, AND I AM NOT SURE WHY, SHE THINKS ME DOING NC HELPS - SOMEONE EXPLAIN THAT TOO ME? HONESTLY, I'M TIRED OF NC AND READY FOR THE REAL DEAL.

[shockandawed]

Just an update, I need somewhere to vent so here it is.

 

First of all, still n/c since the IM on Friday. I managed to go out both nights this weekend. Friday, I went to a good friends place, he owns a bowling center/bar. I was actually laughing and I made it a point to talk to everybody in the bar I could. Not pick ups, just genuine conversation. It's a small bar with an active group of regulars,etc..Also did karaoke, which if anyone knew how bad I sang, you would be shocked.

 

Saturday was a little different. After my divorce three years ago, I briefly went out with a girl we'll call J. J came from a well known and respected family in our city. J has a great personality, extremely intelligent, creative and a sense of humor that nearly mirrors mine. The problem was I was never physically attracted. There is nothing really wrong with her, just physically not my type. I can't really put a finger on it. I always regretted that I never maintained a friendship with her because she is a lot of fun and we do have similar interests. She is also a social butterfly and knows many, many interesting people. We had sent a few emails back and forth, lets have a drink sometime stuff, but of course never did. Mainly because my ex-fiance would have had a fit.

 

Anyhow, I decided to call her. Not for anything sexual, just to see if I could hang with her as friends. Since I have been in a cocoon the last 3 years, I really don't have many people to hang out with. J definitely knows people and is involved in everything. She says sure, she is meeting some friends at a new swanky place and I was welcomed to join them. It was a very interesting group of people and I was quickly welcomed by all. Several times during the evening I would start missing L, the ex-fiance. While I was at the cool club with great and interesting people, I felt trapped, I wanted to be on L's couch, watching a movie, cuddling, at a movie, basically any Sat night we ever shared I wanted back. But I pulled myself through and stayed. Everyone eventually left around 1 and it was just us two. She began drilling me about why I never stayed with her. I forgot how full of herself she can be. "Many people would consider me the catch of a lifetime" etc.....I had told her before the evening what I posted here, that I wanted nothing more than friends and regretted we never did that. She went down the road of wanting to know what L had that she didn't. Strange conversation to say the least. Things lightened up eventually, we walked across the street to a Jillians. Had a beer there, everything was fine, all of a sudden she gets up to leave. I walk her to her car, gave her a hug and thanked her for letting me hang out with her and would love to do it again, she said right and drove off. ???????? I assume that even though I outlined my intentions before, she must have hoped for more? She had said a couple of times when she was drilling me that she was ticked that we never did go out as friends, that she wasnt needy or clingy and wanted nothing more.

 

It just kind of sucks because I had hoped to build a new network of friends, etc so I wouldn't be so dependent on a SO for companionship. I failed to do that after my divorce and now I am paying for it. I knew J could be the beginning of that network. Oh well, it is probably too soon anyway to even do that, L is on my mind 24/7. God I miss her...

[lorr]

Look you've been through quite alot, and IMHO you need to take things one day at a time.This is the opportunity to start enjoying your own company and focussing on you.Building up a new network of friends to go out and do things with,will eventually come in time but only when your ready.

 

Your ex has alot of issues to deal with and although you cannot see it, she did both of you a favour. Better to have known from now or have ended up in another failed marriage.