Scrivdog Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I gotta say that this is a big red flag. If he loves you and has any consideration for your feelings at all - he should dump the damn strip bars and the one for his bachelor party, and he shouldn't even be making a fuss about it. In this matter your feelings should carry way more weight that the nudie chicks. It would be one thing if you were giving him a hard time about a hobby or about him playing golf with his friends on Tuesdays. But in this case, you need to stick to your guns.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I gotta say that this is a big red flag. If he loves you and has any consideration for your feelings at all - he should dump the damn strip bars and the one for his bachelor party, and he shouldn't even be making a fuss about it. I agree, with the following qualification. And to me, there are two separate issues here: 1). Whether or not he should go, knowing how uncomfortable it makes you. 2). Assuming you worked through the above together, and he did go, whether or not you could trust him to be faithful. The second is a BIGGER red flag. The temptation around us isn't limited to strip clubs. You could keep him away from pole dancers, but if he's a cheater, he'll find someone else. Mr. Lucky
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Strip clubs are not about dehumanizing women. It is entertainment and nothing more. I bet the women that complain sit around with their friends male bashing and talking about how horrible men are but then turn around and get mad when men don't respect them. It seems though that certain type of women want to change men.
rtHawk Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Strip clubs are not about dehumanizing women. you know you may be right there..... it may be more about dehumanizing men...............
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 you know you may be right there..... it may be more about dehumanizing men............... It is simply entertainment and a fun night out. Men might be helping put some woman through college who might become very successful so actually feminists should be supporting them but men have too much fun so feminists give the thumbs down.
rainfall Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It is simply entertainment and a fun night out. Men might be helping put some woman through college who might become very successful so actually feminists should be supporting them but men have too much fun so feminists give the thumbs down. Its not fun entertainment when it is considered wrong in a relationship.
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Its not fun entertainment when it is considered wrong in a relationship. Anything can be considered wrong in a relationship. I can deny my wife the right to work but I don't because that make me a controlling jerk and a woman that denies her husband some fun with the guys is a controlling B word.
rainfall Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Anything can be considered wrong in a relationship. I can deny my wife the right to work but I don't because that make me a controlling jerk and a woman that denies her husband some fun with the guys is a controlling B word. Well if it makes me a controlling B word to not allow my boyfriend to have fun by oogling naked women, having them touch him sexually, shove there tits in his face, and have them dance very close to him while they are naked then I guess thats fine. I would rather be a controlling B word then be with a loser who cares more about naked strangers then he does about me. For the record though I think a women has EVERY right to say strip clubs are a deal breaker in a relationship.
rtHawk Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It is simply entertainment and a fun night out. Men might be helping put some woman through college who might become very successful so actually feminists should be supporting them but men have too much fun so feminists give the thumbs down. THAT is hysterical:laugh:... "now "sweetheart: you know I go to help the girls get their college education" Anything can be considered wrong in a relationship. I can deny my wife the right to work but I don't because that make me a controlling jerk and a woman that denies her husband some fun with the guys is a controlling B word. "Now dear, I am LETTING you work so you can help support us, pay the bills and help put food on our table"--but remember, "I'm only spending that money --lots of it too--so I can have some B give my package a nice little rub down; oops I mean for some entertainment"
Guest Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I just wanted to poke my nose in here b/c I get so tired of the cliched responses that any woman who doesn't like strip clubs is either insecure or afraid her man would cheat. I remember Catgirl (where did she go?) once say that any behavior a man doesn't want to accept he gives the label 'insecure.' I agree and find that so insulting. I am very secure in both my relationship and myself. I know if my man leaves, I can find another just as good, heck, maybe even better. But I know he won't cheat if he went to a strip club. So that's not an issue either. I have a problem with men who find 'entertainment' in dehumanizing, objectifying, and degrading women. That is not a man I want to spend any amount of time with, and certainly not a man I want raising my daughter. I think the flippant attitude our society has developed about humanity is so sad and the cause of so many problems. Thankfully I have found someone who shares my beliefs and morals. To the OP, I would have left that relationship a long time ago. You have some concerns with him going to a strip club, and he could care less about your feelings. Sure this is only one issue, but in marriage there are countless issues. Consider this your test run. If he disregards your feelings on this issue, he will do so on others. That is no marriage, and no way to live. Stop reading in to what he is saying, or thinking that he doesn't really mean it. HE DOES. That's the thing about men, they say what they mean. They are pretty straight forward. You will save yourself a lot of heartache if you end it now, IMO. have u ever been to a male strip club - they are gross. when i was younger i went a few times, and they serve meals and guys eat off the stage while a woman puts her ass in his face and farts yeah, lovely - pass
WhisperingWillow Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Anything can be considered wrong in a relationship. I can deny my wife the right to work but I don't because that make me a controlling jerk and a woman that denies her husband some fun with the guys is a controlling B word. Putting them through college? Well, yes some of them do that "entertainment" to get through college, and some are addicted to it, and others do it for the pure enjoyment of making the money. Whatever the issue is you can't use that for a lame excuse to justify hurtful behavior to your SO. A woman that doesn't "allow" you to go to a strip club may indeed be labelled as controlling, but doesn't that smack of a little bit double standards. You're saying you'll go anyhow despite her feelings. Perhaps she's tried talking until she is blue in the face, you don't listen and yet you still go, shouldn't she dump you right on your ass to show you how it feels or perhaps make demands upon you if you won't listen. Look women can only take so much before we become frustrated. I have no problems with strip clubs and the like, but if you're hurting someone time and time again then having them ask you to stop is not a "Controlling B word". You got married, took vows, and if you can't grow up and be in a marriage where everything should be discussed and done with enough respect then you shouldn't be married to anyone. Like you said though, thankfully your wife has no problem with you doing what you're doing. You even said if she did divorce court is only a few blocks away. Wow how little you think of your wife if she did have a problem with it, your marriage and everything else for some fake T&A. Gimme a break! :sick:
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Putting them through college? Well, yes some of them do that "entertainment" to get through college, and some are addicted to it, and others do it for the pure enjoyment of making the money. Whatever the issue is you can't use that for a lame excuse to justify hurtful behavior to your SO. A woman that doesn't "allow" you to go to a strip club may indeed be labelled as controlling, but doesn't that smack of a little bit double standards. You're saying you'll go anyhow despite her feelings. Perhaps she's tried talking until she is blue in the face, you don't listen and yet you still go, shouldn't she dump you right on your ass to show you how it feels or perhaps make demands upon you if you won't listen. Look women can only take so much before we become frustrated. I have no problems with strip clubs and the like, but if you're hurting someone time and time again then having them ask you to stop is not a "Controlling B word". You got married, took vows, and if you can't grow up and be in a marriage where everything should be discussed and done with enough respect then you shouldn't be married to anyone. Like you said though, thankfully your wife has no problem with you doing what you're doing. You even said if she did divorce court is only a few blocks away. Wow how little you think of your wife if she did have a problem with it, your marriage and everything else for some fake T&A. Gimme a break! :sick: It is not just the strip club that I would throw a marriage away for. It is about control and right now the strip club is one example but it can also mean a few friends going out to sports game or me working a but late to get something done. Marriage is a partnership not an ownership and a woman does not have the right to tell a man to stop living his life because it bothers her. If my wife ever feels the need to control me will divorce her. I don't think she will but that option is always there.
rtHawk Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 It is not just the strip club that I would throw a marriage away for. It is about control and right now the strip club is one example but it can also mean a few friends going out to sports game or me working a but late to get something done. MUTUAL RESPECT DOES NOT EQUAL CONTROL!!!!! ASKING FOR RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION DOES NOT EQUAL ONE RELINQUISHING ONE'S MINDFUL CONSIDERATION OF THEIR PARTNER. I am sure I am not alone here, but I am GRATEFUL that I don't have to deal with that kind of atttitude. but that isn't the issue, really, Carbine is still trying to sort out her direction with a potential life mate--if he can't take her heart, her needs and repect her and love her then he really doesn't belong in that type of commitment. Strip Clubs are not a necessity in life Adults; committment,--you always have to provide for a balance of give and take---NOT just take.
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Again it is about her wanting him to cut off his balls and curtail his freedom for her. It may seem small but one small thing after another will lead to a men an emascukated whimp. I bet most of the men who get left because their wives need to go find themselves or they just fell out of love are the ones that cut their balls off. It is about more than just the strip club.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Again it is about her wanting him to cut off his balls and curtail his freedom for her. It may seem small but one small thing after another will lead to a men an emascukated whimp. I bet most of the men who get left because their wives need to go find themselves or they just fell out of love are the ones that cut their balls off. It is about more than just the strip club. Men who prioritize they're own random 'wants' ahead of the 'needs' of a prospective partner, always have the option to remain single. It's just not possible to make a woman happy when objectifying other women is a bigger priority in your life. So if the "freedom" to objectify females is of the greatest import to a guy, where are his "balls" when he decides to tie some poor girl down, like a big dead albatross around her neck? It's not like he can't say 'no'. We've only got so many heartbeats in this life. From a female perspective, a man who's highest brain function is consistantly in his pants isn't worth wasting any time on. We KNOW that some of them are capable of more, so why settle for one who isn't?
Woggle Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I have a masters in business and I have a successful career after being homeless nearly a decade ago so that is not my highest brain function. I keep saying that it is not just about the strip club. My wife has the freedom to go to a strip club as well because we are both adults who don't need another mother or father. Also strip clubs are just harmless fun and not about degrading women.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 ...strip clubs are just harmless fun and not about degrading women. When YOU are the one shaking your booty around a pole somewhere while people ogle you for sport, just so you can make your rent or feed your kids, then... maybe I'll buy in. Kind of doubt it though. When you've had the experience of another human being addressing their conversation to your breasts instead of your face, it's a little hard to believe it's all in "harmless fun".
Author Carbine Posted January 13, 2007 Author Posted January 13, 2007 I agree with those who are asking why you even want to continue dating this guy? He's already told you what he's about - you know what you have to deal with if you stay with him. Obviously, that's not going to make you happy, so why prolong it? End it now and start dating someone who shares your values. For the same reason anyone wants to stay with someone. Please understand that it's only the strippers issue that is a problem with our relationship - otherwise, I'm more than content with him! Women do not understand the male bonding aspect of strip clubs. If he goes to a strip club alone then a woman should worry but if it is with a group of guys it is about men doing men stuff. I would not care if my wife went to a male strip club either. I really don't see why some women have a big problem with this. But I wasn't referring to strip clubs. More than likely, if he goes to a bucks' night, or has one of his own, the strippers will be hired from an agency to attend a private party. That was certainly the case with the bucks' night I mentioned in my original post - and that's when things get out of control. I agree, at a strip club the behaviour of the strippers and the patrons is regulated somewhat, but not when they're entertaining outside of a club environment. I am sorry to ask, but wouldn't you wish to offer that heart and energy to one who can reciprocate????????? He does reciprocate. Seriously, people responding to this thread seem to think he's a demon. He's not. His behaviour is related only to the strippers/bucks' night issue. With other things he's the best bf a girl could ask for. He encourages me to do well at school, to eat well and exercise, to live a decent, honest life. What's wrong with that? I don't think we're talking about blanket accusations toward the OP on the issue of "insecurity", Pink. In reading through her previous posts, she's been very open about her situation, describing it with remarkable candor. She, herself, has used words like "insecurity", as witnessed in the snips below. My concern for her, is that while she's shown a terrific willingness to recognize problems in herself, a great character trait to be sure... maybe she's letting her boyfriend off the hook a little too easily because of it. You know, I was thinking more about this thread... and really, I'm just floored by this girl's self-awareness. We see so many anonymous posters come through LS, and sometimes they freely admit to truly bad behaviors. But more often than not... they qualify them emotionally [...] I'm thinking this young lady is ALREADY doing enough to be proud of that if she'll give herself some extra brownie points for the good stuff... maybe it might take some anxiety out of the areas she's still working on. Thank you for your kind words Ladyjane . What you've said is prettymuch spot-on. I know myself pretty damn well, and I'm as upfront and honest with myself as I am with other people. Frankly, I don't see the point in deceiving myself or others - what good does it do? I've tried to make a point of stating how imperfect and flawed I am, and how these faults of mine have contributed to the problem at hand. Which, might I add, is VERY frustrating when I get the standard reply "oh you're just insecure". I bet the women that complain sit around with their friends male bashing and talking about how horrible men are but then turn around and get mad when men don't respect them. It seems though that certain type of women want to change men. That may be true of other women, but not of me! I do NOT sit around and man-bash! If anything, I sit around and women-bash! (both with guys and girls) because women have never done anything to enhance my life. The men in my life - my Dad, my ex, male friends, male colleagues and classmates - have all taught me useful stuff. The women in my life have just taught me to have low self-esteem.
rainfall Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Again it is about her wanting him to cut off his balls and curtail his freedom for her. It may seem small but one small thing after another will lead to a men an emascukated whimp. I bet most of the men who get left because their wives need to go find themselves or they just fell out of love are the ones that cut their balls off. It is about more than just the strip club. A women not wanting her man to go to a strip club is more about her wanting him to not have naked chicks all over him. If it is ok with both people that is one thing, however if someone has a problem with their SO going to strip clubs then their feelings should be respected.
Pink_Tulip Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 I've tried to make a point of stating how imperfect and flawed I am, and how these faults of mine have contributed to the problem at hand. Which, might I add, is VERY frustrating when I get the standard reply "oh you're just insecure". That was exactly my point, that in every thread like this, the OP will get a huge amount of 'you are just insecure' comments that don't really help at all. First off, I don't really care if the only reason you don't want him to go is b/c of your insecurity- if that's the case. What I care about was his response. And it showed me he is not marriage material. Heck, I don't even think he is dating material myself. It doesn't matter WHY you feel a certain way, the fact is, you feel it. And if he isn't even willing to have an adult conversation about it, why waste your time? He has already told you in no uncertain terms exactly how he feels. He wasn't exaggerating, he didn't make an error, that is how he feels. Listen to him and act accordingly. The problem is that many people, when faced with giving up something they enjoy that hurts their partner, will try to make the partner feel guilty for wanting to talk about it. The fact that you have that gut instinct that is telling something is wrong is significant.
Pink_Tulip Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Strip clubs are not about dehumanizing women. It is entertainment and nothing more. I bet the women that complain sit around with their friends male bashing and talking about how horrible men are but then turn around and get mad when men don't respect them. It seems though that certain type of women want to change men. I find this interesting. I have a huge amount of respect for my husband. Please show a single post anywhere on the internet where I have said one single negative thing about him. Or men in general. Can the same thing be said about you and women? We all know thats not the case. I guess you actually have to first see women as equals, and have respect for them, before you can dehumanize them in a strip club. I get that your 'I'm the man' attitude comes from pain and hurt. Everyone does, which is why most people cut you slack. But it really is wearing thin. True respect comes from meeting people half way, give and take, kindness, empathy, and respect. Stomping your feet and demanding everyone respect you and bragging about how you take nothing from no woman is what insecure teenagers do. It is very transparent. And quite honestly, I don't see how you can progress with your therapy as long as you maintain your 'best defense is a strong offense' attitude. If you are so sure that stripping isn't about dehumanizing women, why don't you take your wife to the strip clubs with you on amateur night, let her get up and dance for men, let them grab her boobs and insert fingers into her orifices. And while they are doing that, look at their faces, and come back and report about how respectfully they were looking at her. Then I'll believe.
Pink_Tulip Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 Men who prioritize they're own random 'wants' ahead of the 'needs' of a prospective partner, always have the option to remain single. It's just not possible to make a woman happy when objectifying other women is a bigger priority in your life. So if the "freedom" to objectify females is of the greatest import to a guy, where are his "balls" when he decides to tie some poor girl down, like a big dead albatross around her neck? It's not like he can't say 'no'. We've only got so many heartbeats in this life. From a female perspective, a man who's highest brain function is consistantly in his pants isn't worth wasting any time on. We KNOW that some of them are capable of more, so why settle for one who isn't? Excellent, excellent, excellent. LS really needs one of those faces that applauds.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 13, 2007 Posted January 13, 2007 When YOU are the one shaking your booty around a pole somewhere while people ogle you for sport, just so you can make your rent or feed your kids, then... maybe I'll buy in. Kind of doubt it though. When you've had the experience of another human being addressing their conversation to your breasts instead of your face, it's a little hard to believe it's all in "harmless fun". It isn't slavery, Ladyjane. No one forces the girls (or guys) to work there, they do so of their own free will for the financial renumeration. There are lots of ways anyone can pay their rent or feed their kids; anyone doing so in a strip club knows exactly what kind of environment they're choosing. Also strip clubs are just harmless fun You're on your own on this one, Woogle. As a married man, I would never go to a strip club (at least here in Vegas) as they are barely disguised whorehouses. The "male bonding" talk does not account for the fact that there are many on and off premises sexual transactions occuring. Mr. Lucky
Ladyjane14 Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 It isn't slavery, Ladyjane. No one forces the girls (or guys) to work there, they do so of their own free will for the financial renumeration. There are lots of ways anyone can pay their rent or feed their kids; anyone doing so in a strip club knows exactly what kind of environment they're choosing. Agreed. I do think it's unfortunate in our society though, that there's a market for this kind of thing. Maybe we're just not training our sons and daughters well enough. Hell, even on TV commercials these days the girls are wearing hardly more than their skin. I don't know HOW their mothers aren't striping some asses. If I caught a daughter of mine acting like that... she'd end up with something a bare-assed baboon could be proud of I guarantee it, and I wouldn't care how old she was either. She'd better hope I've been dead a month before she goes out into the world acting like she ain't had no home training. And even then she better look behind her, 'cause I believe I might rise back up come to that!
CynicalP Posted January 14, 2007 Posted January 14, 2007 Men who frequent strip clubs may be objectifying women as sex toys, but it's a two way street, Ladies, due to the fact those strippers are objectifying men as walking ATM's.
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