Mazellan Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I met her online, 1st date coffee, which turned into lunch and 4 hours non stop chat. Definitely ‘chemistry’ here. 2nd date coffee again, 2 hours chat, hug on parting. 3rd date lunch, walk around park, back to her place for coffee, which became wine and dinner then watching sunset. A hug goodbye became a kiss, then full on kissing and cuddling on the couch, then bed and fantastic sex. Then more sex in the morning and finally breakfast. This feels like the start of something great. I like her a lot, and not just for the sex. Rang her to invite myself over, mentioned that I could leave for work the next morning from her house, if I’m invited to stay, to which she replied “we’ll see” (usually means no) 4th date dinner at her place, much kissing and cuddling on the couch, but a firm no to going to the bedroom or staying, but also a real reluctance to let me go. Actually holding me to prevent me getting up, but at the same time saying I can’t stay. 5th date dinner at my place, then walk around block, then kissing and cuddling on the couch, and then on my bed, and finally more fantastic sex. Then at around 12.30am, she announces that she has to go. I try to persuade her to stay, unsuccessfully. She has all sorts of excuses for why she has to go, all of them with easy solutions. It is about 2 hours from her first statement of intention to leave, to her actually leaving. 6th date, a great day together visiting galleries, lunch, dinner, then finally the same scenario as 5th date. I now have more background, she was in a physically abusive marriage, permanent intervention order, death threats. This was 15 years ago, since then a few short relationships, nothing long term. She has been really independent, raised 3 beautiful daughters, good job, own home, fulfilling life. She is starting to really fall in love with me, but she is terrified of making another mistake. And she isn’t used to having another person in her life. I can appreciate her wanting to take it slowly, but I’m really falling for this woman, and all I can think about is being with her. It hurt so much having her leave me last night, I could hardly kiss her goodnight. For me it is more about love and intimacy than sex, I just don’t want to feel used for sex. When I ask her when we can stay the whole night together, she can only reply ‘soon’. It wouldn’t be so bad if I hadn’t already spent a night with her, which was fantastic for both of us. I have never had anyone do this before. In the past when I have fallen in love, from the first night together, sleeping together becomes a regular occurrence. Have anyone on this forum had this experience, and what did you do? I don’t know what advice I want, maybe just encouragement that I should allow her to take it slow, and be patient. Ps. Just as I finished this, she messaged me: “Thanks for yesterday and last night. Lots of emotional processing now, as I’m so stunned. In a delirium, don’t know when I will recover xxx”
Zaira Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Time. She just needs time. You need to give it to her or she may freak out and you'll lose her. Stay strong!
2sunny Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Some of us more independent women who have been on their own for a while (like she has been) like their own comfort zone.... and gravitate to it much more readily. I wouldn't take it personally, it is what it is. Be happy for the good times you have together and leave the second guessing aside... time will tell you what feels right for the both of you.
nicki Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I also had an abusive marriage. It can really screw with a woman's head. I can't speak for her, but if it were me, this might be what's going on: First of all, she LIKES you. Her message about emotional processing and being stunned is how she really feels. (And good for her for even being able to share her feelings with you. That's a very good sign that she is healthy emotionally.) She's scared. You are obviously her dream man. She has everything with wants with you: a great friendship, great sex, etc....The problem is that she once had that with her abusive ex. In fact, he was most likely very charming and things were amazing - for a while! Then he became an abusive a**hole, so now she doesn't trust her ability to pick out a good man who will stay a good man. She's probably afraid that she will lose who she thinks you are. That you could turn into a jerk, too, given time. How is she to really know? So she is protecting herself, watching you while keeping herself a bit distanced so she doesn't fall in love with you before she knows for sure you are a good guy. It's happened to me. I actually had to tell a boyfriend that he needed to be consistently nice over a long period of time before I could trust him. I'm pretty sure that's your girl's situation. So, what can you do? 1. Be there for her. Let her come and go. Stay grounded and consistently show her that you are there for her. That she has no need to worry. She can test you all she wants. You are who she thinks you are. 2. Be absolutely honest at all times. NEVER lie to her about anything. She needs to trust you. 3. Follow through with your word. If you say you are going to do something, do it. If you can't, call her to let her know why you can't. 4. Handle your anger. Show her when you are angry, but don't cross a line of screaming at her or blaming her when you are having a bad time. If she does something that bothers you, let her know calmly and lovingly. 5. Be consistently nice. If you are having a bad mood, continue to use a loving tone with her while you tell her about it. Don't ever shut her out. Let her in, show her that she doesn't have anything to worry about. That you are always happy to hear from her, etc....speaking lovingly if you need a bit of time to yourself. (The reason for this is that abusive men get in a bad mood, distance themselves, fly into a rage and blame the woman for their own bad feelings. We women know the first sign of abuse is the abuser's bad mood. Show her you are different. That she is safe.) 6. Tell her with words and actions that you adore her and will give her anything she needs. That you are here for her. Show her through words and actions that you are a kind person who is consistently kind and giving. Really, for me, my biggest fear is that I will fall in love with another abuser. I watch someone's actions for a long time before I can begin to trust them. I hope some of this makes sense and helps you! She seems to like you very much. Right now, she is like a spooked horse. Help her calm down by being calm and grounded yourself. She may run away a bit, but she'll come back. She will learn that you are safe. And then she will let down all of her walls. But that's what scares her the most. The walls have protected her up until now. What she wants is to be with someone where the walls aren't necessary. You sound like that guy to her.
nicki Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Thanks, IpAncA! Hope it made some sense. I was typing so fast.
Curmudgeon Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Perfect response, Nicki. Makes all the sense in the world. I married a woman who stayed single for 18 years and uninvolved for 12 of them because of trust and abandonment issues thanks, in part, to an abusive former husband. Even tough we'd been friends for five years before I asked her out, one of her early questions to me when we knew we were falling in love was how I handle anger. Time can be a great healer but it doesn't make you put your guard down. It makes you more careful and selective.
2sunny Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Perfect response, Nicki. Makes all the sense in the world. I married a woman who stayed single for 18 years and uninvolved for 12 of them because of trust and abandonment issues thanks, in part, to an abusive former husband. Even tough we'd been friends for five years before I asked her out, one of her early questions to me when we knew we were falling in love was how I handle anger. Time can be a great healer but it doesn't make you put your guard down. It makes you more careful and selective. Hello C=Lion It's good to see you here! XO
Author Mazellan Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 Thank you so much for your reply Nicki, I had to check your location to make sure you weren't actually my date replying My first instinct was to pull back and let her make the next move, which in a way she did by messaging me this morning. I will follow your advice about letting her come and go, I was going to give her an ultimatum about "no sex without breakfast" (!!!) but I now realize that would probably drive her away. Thanks again.
Fun2BMe Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 If you let her go at her own pace, it could take years for her to change her ways. After all, she's been that way for 15 years now. Do you want her to continue at her pace without you urging her to change? It might be hard for her at first, or the first few times but then things will be better for both of you. I think you should insist that the next time you have sex, she has to stay the whole night or vice versa, but in a loving way of course, not like an ultimatum. Otherwise I don't see how she will do it on her own. The more she likes you, the more unlikely she will be to make herself vulnerable and stay over risking she might get hurt or abused, as can be seen to be the case when the first time she was ok with the allnighter but as soon as she developed feelings, she started 'protecting' herself. I think you have to actively help her change that behavior instead of leaving it to her since she doesn't have the skills to change them.
magichands Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I think you should insist that the next time you have sex, she has to stay the whole night or vice versa, but in a loving way of course, not like an ultimatum. I like it. With double-emphasis on the loving.
lovelorcet Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I am going to agree with the people telling you to give her time. If you force anything she just may run away. You still don't really know what her pace is as you have only been on a few dates.
Spinderella Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Good post by Nicki. I agree, being in an abusive relationship can really make you lose trust in your ability to pick good situations especially in relationships. All of this can lead to a kind of commitment phobia that can become increasingly difficult to cure. While it is important to allow her to build up trust in you, I am also inclined to agree with fun2beme aswell. She will probably do what she always does, which results in her short term relationships. All of those relationships were safe, because they were the ones she left. Probably she began to get close and then began to cut off. So she is doing the only thing she has learnt to do to protect herself. Unless she learns another way for things to be okay in a relationship she will only end up doing the same. Perhaps it is better to ask for more, and in this way make it more clear that unless she takes a leap of faith somewhere along the way, then she will lose you, and it could be really good for her to not lose you.
nicki Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Yes, I can see what Fun2Be is saying. It's important to to teach her a new way of being in a relationship, to challenge her to change and trust.....BUT, that needs to happen after she feels some trust and safety with you. For me, I need to feel in control in the beginning to make sure the guy I'm with is not controlling me. Then I can relax and give up a bit of control, and I do need the man I'm with to help me with that. In fact, the boyfriend I responded the most to once tickled me, hugged me and sweetly joked with me that it was okay for me to not "always be in control." His way of being with me really worked. If he wanted me to spend the night, he would wrap his arms around me and say "You are all mine. I wish you could spend the whole night with me so I could see your face first thing in the morning." He didn't push me, but always talked about his feelings, not his anger. He cared so much about how I felt, that I wanted to care about how he felt, too. I might have not spent that night with him, but I remembered what he said and spent the next night with him. It was good for him to push me a bit, but not too much, or I would have run the other way. So, I agree. There is a balance between challenging the woman to go beyond her comfort zone so she can grow and pushing her too fast. She will be ready for moving beyond her edges once she trusts you to be a safe person, and not a minute before that. So you must challenge her gently, and give her a bit of time upfront to feel in control...All the while lovingly and gently telling her what YOU want and need. Keep talking to her, asking her how she is feeling. She will love being able to talk to you. Be calmly assertive about what you want in the relationship. It will be good for her to see you as strong, but kind and understanding. Help her as a partner to move forward. Really, think of her as a child who is scared of thunderstorms. You comfort her, all the while explaining what is going on with the storm so she understands and isn't afraid anymore. You don't give in to her fears by letting her stay afraid, but instead investigate and dispel the fear together. Good luck. You sound like a wonderful guy!
ls3360 Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 It's happened to me. I actually had to tell a boyfriend that he needed to be consistently nice over a long period of time before I could trust him. I agree. He needs to do that and he needs to do it very well. I will add though that that might not help her recover as much as it will provide clarity of the relationship issues and avoid a complicated fear-enforcing mess where you can't keep track of "who started it" when in fact the problem might actually start with her fears. Recovery might actually only come with time. And that might mean some very painful times for him. He should be careful and not let himself be damaged by this. It could get really tough being strong. Of course... maybe none of this will come to pass. Maybe she's in a different phase than my gf was. Maybe her only sign will be hesitancy. I just want to point out the possibility.
Author Mazellan Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 I've said things to her like "I'm really falling for you, I'd like to take this thing further, but I'll take it at a pace that you are comfortable with" and "I realize that this is all happening a bit too quickly for you, I'm usually not very good at patience, but I really want this to work so I'll take it at your pace". I asked her how often she thought we would be together, she suggested 2 days a week, I said I would like it to be more but that that was a good place to start. She has met my ex, and seen how well we relate. In fact she couldn't believe it, she was shaking her head saying why did you two break up, you get along so well (after a 23 year relationship, and 2 years apart, we are now good friends). She has it imprinted in her mind that relationships always end with people hating each other, and I let her see for herself that that isn't always the case. I'm not sure how often I should call her, I'd like to call every day, and send a few loving texts as well, but I don't want to smother her. Actually, I'll ask her! At first she waited for me to do all the calling, then I sent her a text asking her on a date and telling her to call me with her response, and after a reminder she did call. I don't go along with the dating edict that the guys have to do all the calling. This falling in love thing is so much like a mental illness, I hate it, but I love it!
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