NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I'm still scared, to be honest. I'm scared that he'll find it too hard, all the guilt, his kids faces, her arguments and threats (I have no idea what she'll say, I'm just scared she'll use the kids because that's what he's scared of too). I read too much about all this and how bad it gets, and I just don't want to see him all broken down again with all the worry. I'm not worried too much about his wife using the kids, one because they are teenagers and have good relationships with him now. If his relationships with the kids were iffy, I would be. I'm sure the relationships will be rocky for quite awhile, but I think they will recover. His therapist has done a very good job over the past year in preparing him for every possible reaction the kids could have, what his reaction will be to theirs and how to deal with it. He's done the same work with the therapist in regards to his wife too. This time for some reason it all sounds so real, and I'm scared: what if he and I don't get on as well as I have always believed we would? What if he blames me for everything? What if he gets resentful that I wanted him to leave? We've talked about it, we know it might happen... but I don't think I can face that. I don't worry about him blaming or resenting me. He's divorcing not because of our relationship but because the marriage does not fulfill either him or his wife. He can't remain in the marriage and seek what he needs in life. He also understands that the new life he builds may or may not include me. That doesn't mean I don't worry about the effect it's going to have on him. He's going to be angry, depressed, stressed, etc... I'm a divorced child and understand the emotions and traumas of divorce, he does not. I have a good idea what he will go through and I do worry that I may not deal with his emotions through the divorce well, that I'll let our emotions build rifts between us. I'm aware this can happen and that's half the battle of surviving, knowing what to look for and dealing with it. I worry that when all is said and done, we won't beable to put the frustration, hurt, stress, anger, resentments, guilt, etc... of the past several years to rest. It will cast a shadow if we let it. Not everyone will accept our relationship either, that will play a role. The fallout does scares me - I don't really want to go through it, but I'm sure we'll survive it. I worry more about later when it's time to build a relationship together, we'll have difficulties in letting go of the past.
pricillia Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Sorry for sounding like a cynical old bag. And we have totally hijacked hellens thread. But whatever happens, good luck and all the best. No we have not hyjacked, any information really helps!
sb129 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Originally Posted by sb129 its all on his terms......hmm .........? Touche is right. I mean that as long as your relationship is dominated by his marriage/ divorce/ kids/ custody/guilt or whatever, it will be on his terms. He is the one that said he wanted to reduce contact with you over the difficult time. You know yourself that you don't want to do that because it will stress you out if you can't talk to him, but you don't have a choice because of all the other factors in his life. If you are prepared to sit it out and take the chance that it will work, good luck, and I hope things work out favourably for all parties involved. Things working out favourably may mean that you and your MM don't end up together, opening new doors for you. Or you may work it out. i don't know, a fortune teller I am not. Anyway, don't be sorry mine didn't work out, I'm not. It helped me grow up alot, and to appreciate a good relationship when it comes along. I am sure this isn't the last we will hear of you Frannie!!
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Hmm. Guys I can't help but thinking you are being a little over- optimistic about your respective relationships with your MM. You will probably retort back in a not too positive way, but having been there, I am in a better position to be constructive. You haven't been through the past three years that I've survived. It was hell at times. If we made it through '05, his divorce will have to work very hard to destroy our relationship. There will be problems post divorce, but we have built the communication and relationship skills needed to resolve the issues we encounter. I'm also fully aware of the problems and stigmas that I'm going to face, which is also half of the battle. There won't be any surprises for me. I don't want to have to deal with those aspects of going from the other woman to the wicked homewrecker that many will label me with. I also know I'll survive it and if I rely on the strengths I did prior to the divorce, we'll eventually make it through the cheater/homewrecker phase and build a life that isn't overshadowed by the stigmas. Yes, I'm optimistic because I've seen what we've been able to resolve in the past individually and together and because he accepts responsibility for his choices and mistakes. If we didn't have that background, I would be hesitant to take the next steps.
frannie Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 SB can answer for herself but I believe she meant that he's in the driver's seat and that you're just along for the ride. You have no control here. He makes all the decisions for both of you. By the way, I'm not upset at all...your life and your decisions. Do what you need to do. I was only asking questions. Of course he's in the driver's seat of his own divorce. I make my own decisions about my end of things, whether or not I remain involved and on what basis. It's only when I realised this that I finally stopped being stressed out about the entire situation. Had to happen really, I'd made myself ill over the whole thing last year. When you stop trying to control what other people do it's amazing how life suddenly becomes a lot easier.
frannie Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I don't worry about him blaming or resenting me. He's divorcing not because of our relationship but because the marriage does not fulfill either him or his wife. He can't remain in the marriage and seek what he needs in life. He also understands that the new life he builds may or may not include me. That doesn't mean I don't worry about the effect it's going to have on him. He's going to be angry, depressed, stressed, etc... I'm a divorced child and understand the emotions and traumas of divorce, he does not. I have a good idea what he will go through and I do worry that I may not deal with his emotions through the divorce well, that I'll let our emotions build rifts between us. I'm aware this can happen and that's half the battle of surviving, knowing what to look for and dealing with it. I worry that when all is said and done, we won't beable to put the frustration, hurt, stress, anger, resentments, guilt, etc... of the past several years to rest. It will cast a shadow if we let it. Not everyone will accept our relationship either, that will play a role. The fallout does scares me - I don't really want to go through it, but I'm sure we'll survive it. I worry more about later when it's time to build a relationship together, we'll have difficulties in letting go of the past. Yes... there are so many problems and issues... but even so, if we're going into it with eyes open and knowing what to expect, I think that's half the battle. We could be surprised, who knows..? I try not to worry, try not to think about it at all, actually, but I know that as the weeks start to progress now I'm going to start getting fretful about progress. I just hope I can stay 'hands off' enough and not get myself in a flap about it all. I'm not too great at letting others be in the driving seat at times
frannie Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Touche is right. I mean that as long as your relationship is dominated by his marriage/ divorce/ kids/ custody/guilt or whatever, it will be on his terms. He is the one that said he wanted to reduce contact with you over the difficult time. You know yourself that you don't want to do that because it will stress you out if you can't talk to him, but you don't have a choice because of all the other factors in his life. If you are prepared to sit it out and take the chance that it will work, good luck, and I hope things work out favourably for all parties involved. Things working out favourably may mean that you and your MM don't end up together, opening new doors for you. Or you may work it out. i don't know, a fortune teller I am not. He said he might need to reduce contact during this time, because of the conversations they will need to have together and all the planning and discussion ahead. At the moment he spends his weeks with me, and that is quite probably not going to be a sensible or workable thing to do during the upcoming weeks/months. At the same time as he might want more space or time during his divorce, I have exactly the same choice: if I can't stand the stress, then as I said before, I'll have to back away. And at the same time as I can't demand he sees me, neither can he demand anything of me. Neither of us have the 'upper hand' in any of this: we're both free agents in THIS relationship. We will have to do what's best for us as individuals. (well, apart from the fact that he has to make decisions for his children too, but that's a whole other subject). Thanks for your good wishes.
frannie Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I'm also fully aware of the problems and stigmas that I'm going to face, which is also half of the battle. There won't be any surprises for me. I don't want to have to deal with those aspects of going from the other woman to the wicked homewrecker that many will label me with. I also know I'll survive it and if I rely on the strengths I did prior to the divorce, we'll eventually make it through the cheater/homewrecker phase and build a life that isn't overshadowed by the stigmas. I'm just wondering. Does his W know about you..? How many in his life (and yours) actually know about the affair or you..? And are you/is he planning to come clean about the affair when he asks for a divorce..?
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I don't wish anyone any ill. Of course I want you both to have happy relationships. But when your MM does leave, it may be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. Right now he has the best of both worlds. He definitely does not have the best of both worlds right now. He has one very dysfunctional world and another world that is all fuzzy and unformed, that is suffering from the dysfunction of the first world. I do know what you're talking about, but he's never been permitted by himself, me or his therapist to just enjoy the good of the two worlds and ignore the bad. He's had to deal with all the dysfunction, to the detriment of the good. He hasn't had the frying pan for safety, he's been in the fire for quite awhile. The fire will get a few more logs, but he can handle it. But what happens when custody/ divorce/ property division etc all start? Its tough stressful and to be honest I started to resent the way it took over my life. Call me selfish but there you go. Glad you are being realistic and you are a strong woman, you will need to be. Good luck My parents had a scandalous, traumatizing divorce. I expect his divorce to be very similar. If I could negotiate the minefield of one as a bystander, I'll make it through another. As for custody, the kids are teenagers, one will be leaving for college in an year and a half. More than likely before the divorce is final, the older child will be in college. He doesn't think the younger child will want to leave his home and live with him/us. I'm not so sure about that, but if the child does decide to live with his father, it's not going to be for ten years, he'll be off to college soon too. Both kids have active social lives, they will not do the every weekend or other weekend at the non-custodial parents' home. I won't find myself every other weekend taking care of three kids under the age of eight who hate me while he sits in a bar drinking away his guilt. He's been working on a property settlement with his lawyer for the past several months. He's prepared to lose 75% of his assets and will be thrilled if he only loses 60%. He has a very good grasp of what he's up against and what it's going to cost him. I don't expect him to get through the divorce unscathed, but I think he has a realistic idea of the toll it's going to have on him emotionally and financially. I don't expect too many susprises there. The challenge is going to be keeping a balance between us and his divorce, where I can be supportive and we don't let his divorce take over our relationship.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 yes my new saying for myself today if someone takes advantage of me is that I am not your door mat! Someone not MM was taking out thier frustration on me and I told that person that I am not your doormat, turned them right around! We OW can be supportive but we are not doormats... Pricillia - keep that new saying and practice it every day. You're not doormat, you deserve exactly what you want in your life and you have every right to insist on it. Keep that in mind and you'll negotiate your relationship just fine.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Yes... there are so many problems and issues... but even so, if we're going into it with eyes open and knowing what to expect, I think that's half the battle. We could be surprised, who knows..? I try not to worry, try not to think about it at all, actually, but I know that as the weeks start to progress now I'm going to start getting fretful about progress. I just hope I can stay 'hands off' enough and not get myself in a flap about it all. I'm not too great at letting others be in the driving seat at times That's the part I worry about too, not fretting over what he's going through, not trying to make it better for him, keeping my opinions to myself about his divorce. I don't care to be the passenger too often either. Maybe we can be homewreckers together and say all the things to each other that we want to scream at them about.
frannie Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 That's the part I worry about too, not fretting over what he's going through, not trying to make it better for him, keeping my opinions to myself about his divorce. I don't care to be the passenger too often either. Maybe we can be homewreckers together and say all the things to each other that we want to scream at them about. Keeping my opinions to myself..? I find that the hardest thing in the entire world. I'm trying, honest I am I'm a work in progress. Actually I'm not so bad where his marriage and especially his children are concerned. I've never had a good reaction to any of my 'suggestions'... so it's kind of put me off for good. Just as well, I think. Not sure about venting here about what's going on in his and my lives... it's not very private and most of the time not very supportive. But it is great to have someone else on the board in a vaguely similar position... I thought it was mostly BSs ex-OW and people wanting to be out of the affair...
pricillia Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 That's the part I worry about too, not fretting over what he's going through, not trying to make it better for him, keeping my opinions to myself about his divorce. I don't care to be the passenger too often either. Maybe we can be homewreckers together and say all the things to each other that we want to scream at them about. Please don't label yourself as a homewreker...
EnigmaXOXO Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I'm still scared, to be honest. I'm scared that he'll find it too hard, all the guilt, his kids faces, her arguments and threats (I have no idea what she'll say, I'm just scared she'll use the kids because that's what he's scared of too). Whatever you do … however the outcome, please don't groom his wife and children to play future scapegoats for this man's indecision. Yes, if finally informed of the seriousness of her marital problems … she may beg, she may plead, she may ask that he stop long enough to consider his children. She may value what they have together enough to encourage him to work towards repairing their marriage. As his wife, life partner, co-parent, and second half of their marital relationship … that is her family's privilege to do so. Then again, if actually given the option, she may decide that equal property settlement and support payments are a fair trade up for a part time husband and father. I suspect the wife, who has already been holding her family together on her own, is a strong lady a very capable of making the tough, responsible choices. Which is why she has been deprived of the opportunity so far to do so. But in the end (as you've said time and time again) the ultimate decision is his to make. No one can browbeat or twist his arm unless he permits it. And certainly his wife and children shouldn't shoulder the blame if he decides to stay … miserable or not. At least THIS TIME, armed with all the information and facts, they can finally face the gravity of their situation on equal ground. Something her husband has prevented the two of them from doing in a long time. NOW they will finally be making decisions as a "team." And sometimes this is exactly what it takes to motivate a failing relationship into recovery. In the end, if they choose to stay together for the children or finally part ways, it will be because its what they both decided together. As a TEAM. And hopefully, he'll man up enough to take responsibility for those choices and not scapegoat his wishy-washiness on wife and children, too. If this happens, instead of being resentful, I hope you drop to you knees and thank your lucky stars that you only lost several years to this dire man-child rather than the rest of your life.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 I'm just wondering. Does his W know about you..? How many in his life (and yours) actually know about the affair or you..? And are you/is he planning to come clean about the affair when he asks for a divorce..? There's very few people in my life who don't know his marital status. I've never kept it from anyone. There's a couple of people who I know would hyperventilate on their high horses and I let them think he's separated. Not because their disapproval would bother me (although if they tried to "reform" me that could get annoying), but because I know they would agonize over it. Otherwise, if the relationship the person has with me is one where they would be privy to my personal life, I haven't kept his marital status hidden. I see no reason to lie to the people I care about, if they care about me - they'll accept my choices. I have a few friends I'll talk to about the relationship, the rest I don't. In his life, his parents know. His closest friends know and he has a few friends he talks to about our relationship with. I'm met his friends, he's met many of my friends and we have friends we've met together. I'm sure his employees figured it out long ago. His kids know we talk, if they know just what our relationship is, I don't know. If they don't, I doubt they'll be too surprised. Kids are pretty savvy, I'm sure they know much more than he thinks they do. His wife knew there was much more between us than friendship months before I knew. She objected to our friendship, telling him we were too attached to each other. He told her there was nothing going on, there wasn't. She dropped it and has not mentioned my name again. I don't understand why she didn't insist on marriage counseling, she knew or at least suspected he was in love with me. When our relationship did change, for a few months she checked up on him frequently when we had phone conversations or were on dates. Then she stopped. I don't know if she decided her suspicions were unfounded or if she confirmed them. However, over the past year it's been apparent to me that she knows the relationship exists and a divorce won't surprise her. Considering how she's focused her life outside of the home and even further away from the marriage over the past few years, I'm pretty sure on some level or another she's been aware of the relationship if not from the very beginning, at least the past two years. He's planning to admit to our relationship when the divorce is filed. There's no reason to deny it. Her attorney can prove our relationship just by deposing a couple of his friends. He's hoping to shorten the divorce by admitting to it when he files and hopefully prevent months of her attorney going through every credit card and bank statement with a fine tooth comb. He's also hoping the court will look on him favorably for not wasting court time while she tries to prove what he denies. We've taken enough trips together and registered in hotels under both of our names, it wouldn't take an attorney more than a few days to prove our relationship goes beyond friendship.
pureinheart Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Please don't label yourself as a homewreker... Totally agree....you know Nightstarr, the last attack from ex-MM's family was a crude email to my job, hoping to get me fired due to the fact that they monitor the pc's.... In this "email" she accused me of everything that was wrong in the M, stating that I ruined a 29 yr M....really.... I have no power over their M, especially when he was out cheating days after they were M. They hate each other, now how did I get all of this power? The OW has no power over any M, they ruined it not me, I am not a part of any problems that existed. I take resposibility for my actions, but refuse to be everybodies whipping post....nope He lied to her and I lied to myself.... OW don't have the power to break marriages up, bad marriages do
Touche Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Isn't he worried that admitting to an affair will negatively affect child custody for him?
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Please don't label yourself as a homewreker... I'm know I'm not a homewrecker. However, other people will not agree and will label me as one. It is a role that will be thrust upon me whether or not I had anything to do with his decision to divorce. The stigma of the label may follow behind me the rest of my life. I might as well get used to hearing it now and have a little fun with it.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Isn't he worried that admitting to an affair will negatively affect child custody for him? No, the kids are teenagers. Custody will not be an issue. If they were younger, he's a fit father who spends as much if not more of the after school hours with the kids than their mother does. There would be no reason for any court to deny him joint custody because of our relationship. He does not plan to seek custody, he will leave that to the kids. As for a visitation schedule, there's no reason to have a formal one with teenagers. He already has established routines outside of the home that he participates in with the kids and I assume those routines will continue.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Not sure about venting here about what's going on in his and my lives... it's not very private and most of the time not very supportive. But it is great to have someone else on the board in a vaguely similar position... I thought it was mostly BSs ex-OW and people wanting to be out of the affair... I was thinking of keeping that off the forum in private messages. I can't remember my former login though, so I'll have to wait until this login has been around long enough to have private message privileges.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 From the moment when an OW is aware of a man's status as MARRIED, and determines to continue in a romantic relationship with him anyway.... she is disrespecting another person's belief system. As a society of politically correct people, we frown upon such prejudices as racial and religious intolerance, and yet some who would otherwise consider themselves to be un-bigoted people will abuse the fundamental belief system of others without hesitation. I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States, which is not a society of politically correct people. It never has been, nor will it ever be. The entire premise that the nation was built on is that all people have unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They may believe, think and state anything they want in the pursuit of their own personal happiness, including being intolerant of religion and racially biased. In many marriages, the vows are considered sacrosanct by one or both parties. Catholics, for example, consider it a sacrament, as fundamental as Baptism or Last Rites. Even those of secular beliefs sometimes adhere very strongly to their own self-developed creed in a way that is sacred to them.... enough so that they spoke their vows and meant them. I guess this means if one is an athiest, one may participate in an extramarital affair without violating any moral codes. When you JUDGE another person's marriage to be essentially meaningless, I guess it's pretty easy to give yourself permission to become involved in it. I haven't judged anyone's marriage. I'm not involved in a marriage, I'm not married. There's no innocence here. The OW may not use the knife herself... but she damn sure hands it to the MM and stands by, egging him on, while he stabs his wife in the back. Did it ever occur to you if a wife did not have her back turned to her husband, she would not have a wandering husband? If you marry, you accept the risk that your spouse will have an affair. If you're unwilling to take that risk, do not marry. Do not blame anyone else if you and your spouse did not diligently work to maintain a marriage that would be immune to affairs. Good marriages do not have affairs. Marriages with poor communication, where each other's and individual needs are ignored and issues are swept under the rugs have affairs. There are no knives involved, just two people who did not communicate.
whichwayisup Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 Did it ever occur to you if a wife did not have her back turned to her husband, she would not have a wandering husband? If a wife turns her back on her husband, don't you think instead of him CHOOSING to go and cheat, it would be better if he talked to her about it, and together they solved the issues? Him choosing to cheat isn't justified because his wife is neglecting his needs. COMMUNICATION is the key.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 -He's not living with you -He can't include you in family/friends functions -Other people like his wife, his children come first. -Holidays alone or if anything shared time, stolen moments There's a difference between living together and sharing an address. Mine share's an address. I've been included in functions with his friends. I don't remember the last time his wife came before me. I don't spend my holidays alone. But in all honesty, when things are bad, whether it be a death in his family, or problems in general, chances of him JUST relying on you, being with you and only you isn't going to happen. I wouldn't want a man who just relied on me. You're selling yourself SHORT by staying with a MM, a man who sleeps with his wife, a man who has BUILT a life, a marriage with someone else. He doesn't sleep with me nor does he sleep with his wife. He has built a life with me. in 5-10 years, he could still be with his wife, living in house, with his family... He could be dead in 5-10 years. He could be living with the moonies. He could be living with me. What if something bad happened to you? Do you believe he'll be there ALL the time, like a partner is supposed to be? Would he sit with you, hold you, take you to appointments, treatments? Help you in everyway possible? He doesn't do that with the wife he has. If I wanted him to do it for me, he would. I know you can't see this because you're IN the situation and can't be fully objective, but you are settling to share a man with another woman. That is a fact. Sorry, you're wrong. I'm not sharing a man with anyone.
NightStarr8 Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 If a wife turns her back on her husband, don't you think instead of him CHOOSING to go and cheat, it would be better if he talked to her about it, and together they solved the issues? It takes two to communicate. I don't care what any spouse decides to do. That's their marriage. If they want a good marriage, they'll both make it happen. If they don't, they won't. If one or both want relationships outside of the marriage, they'll have them. It's none of my business unless it's my spouse that is having the extramarital affair and then I'm equally responsible for the state of our marriage regardless of how my spouse chooses do deal with the dysfunction in our marriage.
Touche Posted January 7, 2007 Posted January 7, 2007 No offense, Night but BOY does he have you snowed! And tell me how you're not sharing him? I'm sorry but I don't know your story. Did he move out? If he didn't and he's still "sharing an address" with his wife, then yep, you're sharing him. Or you're getting a little piece of him I should say. So he tells you he's not sleeping with her? And how does a man "build a life" with you while living with another woman? That's a new one on me! How exactly does that work? He's not there for his own wife but you think that if you wanted him to be there for you he would be? Okie Dokie...Wow. No comment.
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