goodmom Posted December 31, 2006 Posted December 31, 2006 WS and I made it through the holidays. Actually there were some good times. He came to my office party and we went to several other holiday parties together. I will admit that I have tried not to push any of his buttons. When does the worry if I don't live up to his expectations that he will go back to the OW go away? Does it ever? Time with each family was akward. WS was very uncomfortable with both sides of the family, mosly mine. He kept to himself most of the time. I have not told a soul, so I do not think that was his worry. Maybe guilt and shame? I have a bad feeling about today. We have never had a great New Year's in twenty years. WS gets depressed and laments about his life. It does not help that I went in our bedroom after he took a nap today and found his cell phone by his pillow. Why would he have to take it upstairs when he was taking a nap? I confronted him at Thanksgiving about still having contact with the OW. I can honestly say I do not know if he is or not. We are going to Mexico for a week in January. His idea. He has always wanted to go. What scares me about the trip is that if it does not live up to the fantasy life he seems to have in his head, what happens then? I think I am just feeling sorry for myself today.
Ladyjane14 Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 When does the worry if I don't live up to his expectations that he will go back to the OW go away? Does it ever? Honey, it goes away when YOU make it go away. When you have faith in yourself that you're going to handle whatever life throws at you, you can let go of the fear. You know, there's NOTHING you can do which will give you a 100% guarantee that your husband will never cheat on you again. You can't watch him 24/7. And even if you could... what kind of life is that for YOU? I'm going to reprint a couple of my own posts and hope you'll forgive me for not typing. Not everything will apply to you, so take what you need and leave the rest. I can't promise you that you're out of the woods yet, Goodmom. But nothing good in life comes without risk. So, if you're determined that you want to make a go of it.... take your best shot and don't let your fears paralyze you. Good luck. This is where you have to take the bull by the horns, ladies. There comes a point during the reconcilliation phase at which the wayward has done all he can in order to rectify the situation. Sometimes he's done it all perfectly... and sometimes he hasn't. But that too is normal. People all have their own imperfections and when we choose to love them we have to love them 'warts and all'. Backsliding is fairly typical WS behavior right there in the beginning of the process. It's kind of like busting a crackhead and then putting him on 'the honor system'. No matter how much he promises himself and his spouse that he's going to be good... he still wants some crack. So, it's liable to take him a couple of tries before he gets it right. In your case LA, you brought the house down on him when he flubbed it up and got his attention. Atta-girl! Because CRISIS is often the only tool a WS will respond to. At that point, you're not talking about some vague ultimatum or some flacid, unsupported boundary. Rock bottom has been reached when the WS realizes that he's not imminently going to lose his spouse, but rather.... he's already lost her. That's a total 'tear-down' of a faulty foundation. But the good news is that there's an opportunity to be had in it in building something new and better. You've handled this beautifully, LA. You've set boundaries. You've enforced them. And you've been VERY clear with your mate about what it's going to take to keep you engaged in the reconcilliation process. So, you've dealt very well with him. NOW... it's time for you to deal with yourself. When something like this happens, you look at the guy you knew and see a stranger, somebody who's capable of ANYTHING. Your faith in him is broken, and you feel like a complete fool for not seeing through the lies. You doubt your own ability to assess other people's character while facing this apparent proof that your judgement is so faulty. It's not just your faith in him that's broken... it's also your faith in yourself. And THIS is where you become proactive. There's a stinking-thinker inside your head. The one who tells you that you're being played, and says you're going to get your feelings hurt again. The one who tells you that things are never going to get better, and that you're just setting yourself up to waste YEARS of your life. She's full of negativity and anger. She's still licking her wounds and keeping them bleeding, preventing them from healing. SHE is the one you have to address now. SHE is the bull whose horns are prodding you in the backside. I can't tell you how many times I caught myself arguing with her, anwering her questions, and sometimes telling her to STFU and not be such a damned coward. But in quiet moments like when you're falling asleep or taking a shower... she has access to you. But hey, you've also got access to her. What I told my "stinking-thinker" was this.... I've already been hurt emotionally worse than I thought somebody could actually hurt me. And I survived it. I'm no longer gullible and the wool will not be pulled over my eyes again like it was before. If he ever took up the notion to cheat me again, I'd catch him in short order. I know what it looks like now. And having survived it once, I KNOW that I can do it again if need be. I will NOT live my life in fear of what might be. I will live in the present. And I will love and accept love fearlessly as is MY choice. I will love my partner in an active way. Because what good is it to love someone if they can't feel it? And I will open myself up to noticing the ways in which he returns my love. I will not place expectations upon him that dictate the kind of love I'm looking to accept, but rather I will give him the freedom to please me in his own way. I will put away the leash and STOP checking. I already have the tools I need to identify problems. I will not be cast in the role of the authoritarian. I will not be his 'mommy'. I will add to my partner's life experience and not subtract from it. I will choose to TRUST in an active way, just as I choose to LOVE in an active way. I will prioritize his needs as if they were my own, because that's the responsibility that I signed on for. And it doesn't matter what other people do, my personal responsibilities are MINE to tend. And IF my efforts are thrown back in my face by betrayal, I am strong enough to deal with it. I have proven already that it is so. I need not fear the role of the fool. Because in the end, I'd rather be a fool than a coward. I know it sounds kind of silly to recommend to people that they 'talk to themselves'... but sometimes the tough love doesn't stop with your partner. Sometimes you've got to be tough with yourself too. At least I know that's true in my case. I remember you Rossi. I'm sorry you're still having so much trouble. You know, if you're going to stay in your marriage and find happiness again.... it's time to kick the OW out of your brain space. I remember that you had limited sexual experience. I think your husband was your only partner. Is that right? And if memory serves, part of what was bothering you so much was the idea that maybe he enjoyed sex with her more than with you. (????) I doubt there's anything I can say that would reassure you about that, but.... it's not an important point anyway. Your husband chose to stay with YOU, and that's the part you need to focus on. His sexual relationship with you, his mate, is an EMOTIONAL one. So, the sex might have been nice with OW, or crappy with OW... it doesn't matter. Because in the end, the EMOTIONAL connection your husband has with YOU proved to be more important to him. It's time to put that one aside. Here's something for you to think about: There is NOTHING we can do to absolutely PREVENT our loved ones from occasionally hurting our feelings. If we love somebody... sooner or later, our feelings are definately going to get hurt. But that doesn't stop us from loving them, right? Your fears of being hurt again are more to do with you than about ANYTHING your husband might (or might not) do in the future. This is less about trusting him than it is about trusting yourself. How are you gonna handle it if he cheats on you again? You're powerless to prevent it. There's literally nothing you can do. You can't watch the guy 24/7. The source of your distress, honey... is that you don't believe you can handle it. The power to defeat your fear is KNOWING that you can. You can kick this affair and the OW, completely out of your brain-space by simply trusting YOURSELF. When you know in your heart, that come what may, you're going to handle it and you're going to be okay whichever way it goes.... the fear is defeated. When the fear is defeated, your self-confidence will return, and the risk that your own insecurity will become a destructive influence on your marriage will be negated.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 Walking on jagged glass, oh how well I know that feeling. My WS was supposed to be done with the OW, but he would still sneak over there, even during our seperation. One time he said that he was going to Walmart, but I got a call from a trusted friend that WS was seen over at OW's house. Don't you think I had people keeping an eye on that house after D-day? When he got home from "Walmart" (hours later - 1 small bag) I asked to see the receipt and it was so obvious he was lying about his whereabouts. "Where were you between the time you left and the time you bought these items? At a friends house? I busted him and told him I had him followed and he confessed the rest. Still for whatever reasons, he continued in the same fashion throughout our seperation also. He was really two faced and very manipulative. He would swear it was over and I would almost believe it until my suspicions were prooven correct. I guess he wanted everyone to see him as a good person, especially me, but good people don't lie and carry on like that, so they dont deserve to be treated the same way. One thing I have learned, is that if you want respect, you have to show them that you are not going to take it. Here you are, going on all these trips and attending holiday parties like nothing ever happened & everything goes on just like it was before you found out... except it's gone underground and much harder to spot the cheating. OW will wait YEARS for MM to decide. Can you? His discomfort at your families house is a sign of guilt. It could also be a sign that he is missing and grieving for his OW, too. Nobody I know sleeps with a cellphone. I cant even remember to charge mine or bring it inside from my car. Did you know there are new software packages that allow you to recover all deleted calls and TM's from a cellphone from your home computer? I'd check that out if I were you. Have the program set up and take it when he is sleeping or in the shower. Of course WS has his end set up. Wether you stay or leave, he has OW to fall back on. Thats the whole idea, right? I think that one of the reasons they hang on to OW for such dear life is because if you honestly knew what they were doing, you would leave them in a heartbeat.
Trialbyfire Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 When does the worry if I don't live up to his expectations that he will go back to the OW go away? Does it ever? This jumped out at me right away. You don't need to live up to his expectation. You need him to live up to the responsibilities of a normal, healthy relationship. All you need to do is treat him as if he were a mentally sound person, except for watching for the signs that he's regressing. Hard balance but reality. If he falls again, he's not a man at all, therefore you deserve better.
Author goodmom Posted January 1, 2007 Author Posted January 1, 2007 Thanks for listening. I know that things have been pretty one sided around here. He has yet to take any responsibility for what happened. He still justifies it by saying I have made his life miserable for the last twenty or so years. I have really thought about this trip to Mexico--nine days of just us. Scary, yes. But it would be a perfect opportunity for some discussion of what happened and a chance for me to get some questions answered. I suppose if he never brings it up, then he never will. Sorry is not in his vocabulary, and I don't think he is going to start now. I have a lot of decisions to make this year.
Romeo Must Die Posted January 1, 2007 Posted January 1, 2007 This is the first time going to Mexico for both of you eh seniorita, so I will give you some friendly advice before you go on your vacation. The sun is alot hotter there and UV rays are completely way more intense (even in the winter) than you are used to in the states because Mexico is alot closer to the equator. Be sure to pack a good sunscreen. Buy one for WS too, but switch the contents of his bottle with a creamy baby oil. Have a good time applying it to his backside while tanning on the beach. I dont think he will get much lovin from his OW when he is all burnt and blistered when he gets home. LOL
Ladyjane14 Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 I suppose if he never brings it up, then he never will. Sorry is not in his vocabulary, and I don't think he is going to start now. Regardless of what you did or didn't do as a wife, YOU did not make the decision for him to commit adultery. He chose that on his own. Now, I know that betrayed spouses often feel very remorseful for their personal shortcomings prior to the affair. But let's not forget that instead of dealing with the problems in the relationship constructively... the WS elects to escalate the problem by involving a third person. If you were THAT bad of a wife to him, what you deserved was to be summarily divorced..... NOT cheated on behind your back, and NOT exposed to whatever random cooties he might have picked up from catting around. Overall, I think you're doing well right now in the way you're handling things. But this guy owes you an apology and more. "I'm sorry" isn't good enough. He needs to also rectify his mistake as best he can. While there's literally nothing that he can do that would take away your pain.... he could at least give it a good old fashion try. You don't have to come on strong or push for him to do step up to the plate right this minute. You have lots of time. But eventually, he's going to have to apply himself and stop acting like a big ole' victim. Otherwise, there can't be any true rebuilding of the marriage. If there's never any kind of reciprocity... you're gonna burn out. There's nothing for it. I don't think you have anything to lose by continuing on in your 'Plan A' for the next six months or so, provided that you don't discover renewed contact with the affair partner. But sweetie, I think I'd keep 'Plan B' in my back pocket, ready to spring at a moments notice. (If you haven't already checked in out, type in "what are plan a and plan b, marriagebuilders" into your browser for more info.) As I told you earlier, there's most likely one of two explanations for the lack of remorse. One, is that he's fearful that he'll never get out of the doghouse if he accepts responsibility for his actions. Two, is that he's REALLY not sorry. In which case he's apt to return to the affair when the smoke clears. Now even guys who are earnestly desirous of reconcilliation might backslide a time or two. But factored in with a visible lack of remorse... I'd say a slip-up would be serious enough for stern measures... 'Plan B' or even 'Plan D' Meanwhile back at the ranch.... try not to tip-toe. You'll just end up with your nerves more frayed than they already are. You know, lots of VERY nice folks are living comfortable and fulfilling lives post-divorce. And at the end of the day, the worst thing that might happen is you'll find yourself free to make of your life ANYTHING you'd like it to be.... and free to share it with whoever you find worthy too. As Gunny's been known to say, "Damn the bad luck" Relax kiddo. Deep breaths. Keep your peepers open, and take it one day at a time.
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