What do I do???

[torranceshipman]

Hey guys,

I've been reading this forum and there's some great advice here - so I thought I'd ask you for advice about my situation.

 

I've known this guy about 7 or 8 yrs and we've become close friends (he's my best mate's brother) - he has spent years trying to make us more than friends, but I've always shot him down in flames as he has a girlfriend (quite rightly!). He's been with her 14yrs, and has spoken for YEARS about leaving her - physical relationship dead, nothing in common, etc - and he has had lots of one night stands, etc, - but he's never left her. Totally true, as me and our other friends know exactly what is going on with those two, and there's nothing there.

 

It's become a standing joke amongst all our friends that he's loved me for years but never had a hope, but then recently we started working together, and I guess the feelings were already there on my side too, we totally fell for eachother (ok, he'd already fallen!) and we started seeing eachother. Seriously, I think the guy thought all his Xmas's had come at once, when it happened! I hate the lying so I made it clear this could only happen if he was dead set on making the break from his girlfriend. He promised that he was, and told all our friends he would definitely leave the girl for good - everyone believed him (including me), then he panicked MASSIVELY and is now running scared and has pulled back. He's admitted that he's being a total wuss, loves me and wants to do it, but is having a big panic facing up to it - and he's even in the process of buying a new property alone (i.e. mortgage in his name only), even though his girlfriend and him currently live together. His rationale for this is that he doesn't want to make that type of commitment to her, and knows he'll never marry her (no kids involved) - the idiot just needs to leave her, we all know that, but he's that classic scared guy that it too frightened of leaving all that security, I think - he even owns the place they currently live in - in his name only - for the same reason (i.e. no commitment-weird, hey)...so weird as in his professional life, he's very confident and successful, and I'm so ingrained in the same social set as him, it's not like he'd lose the 'respectable partner' image or anything....If we didnt work together I'd have bolted a long time ago as this is just too complicated! - and having known him for years I get the impression that he needs a push, i.e. for the girlfriend to find out or something, and then it'll force him to act, but why should I say something and be put in that situation? Talk about baggage...! But in the 14 yrs they've been together, and the 7/8yrs I've known him - it's seemed dead in the water between them BUT he's never left, which of course is a HUGE danger sign for me!!!!

 

I'm going to have to leave the job very soon if nothing changes (which sucks as my career is v.important to me, and the job is v.cool - but then again I'm a Doc, so I suppose there's quite a few career options out there)...so I can leave, or tell the girlfriend, or wait for him to act...I think an ultimatum will only work if I leave his life for good, e.g. pack in the job and move away - so quite a BIG decision for me to even give that type of ultimatum - and if he moves into the new place with the girl, and loses that opportunity to split with her clearly he's a spineless git so I'd have to leave - anyway, what do you guys think??

 

I value your opinions as you seem like a clever bunch on here! Apologies for the long post! Torrance x:)

[GreenEyedLady]

First things first: Has it gotten physical? Are you in love with him? Does it bother you that he talks s*** about his current GF and never does anything about the problems between them? How do you feel that although he is supposedly in a committed R, he has had several ONS? No judgment here, just asking your feelings on this...

 

I think you should put your career first...don't leave your position if it's going to screw up your career...I also think you should go along with your life as previously planned without him and if he pulls his head out of his a** rethink it then...IMO

 

But it's your choice, so good luck...

[herenow]

I know that people hate this phrase, but this guy sounds like a Cake-man. He has no reason to leave his GF if he can get what he wants elsewhere as well. If he has been cheating as much as you say, chances are the GF already knows and has decided to stay.

[torranceshipman]

Hey guys,

 

Good responses, thanks! Well, in answer to your questions: I've known him as a friend for a long time, so I genuinely know his character, and I genuinely don't think he'd cheat on me, simply because we're very well suited, and close, there's a lot of feelings there, etc, etc. Also, he's only ever had one night stands before and kept other girls 100% at a distance. This is because he has no physical relationship with the girlfriend, so is basically very frustrated! His own stupid fault, obviously, as if he left her and was with someone he matched with, he wouldnt be frustrated!! - but with me, it's the only time in his life that he's had deep feelings for someone (apart from, presumably, the first year or so of being with the current girlfriend), and he was very instrumental in bringing me to the company where I now work - he knew I'd probably take a job overseas if I didn't work with his company - and he didn't want me to move far away from him. Basically, the guy lived in hope (but hey, seems like he was right to hang in there!-he's sucked me in now!)

 

We've been physical for about 4 - 5 months now, and I definitly love him (based on the fact that I've loved him as a close friend for a long time, but now there's a lot of chemistry and intimacy there too) - so I guess I'm in trouble!

 

And yes, it hugely bothers me that he lies to his girlfriend, basically because I think lying is wrong. He doesnt say directly disrespectful things about his girlfriend to me, but that I wouldn't tolerate - and he knows it - but it's what he says to his friends and me, as compared to what he must say to her/let her believe, that really makes me mad (i.e. 'I know I have to leave her, I want to, but it's hard to face up to actually doing it, I'll never marry her or have kids with her, etc') ...

 

Definitly agree with the cake thing - but the ultimatum/leaving the job is the only way o rectifying that, right?

[whichwayisup]

Just remember though, he's been lying to his girlfriend, so don't you think it's possible he can lie to you as well?

 

To be honest, I don't know why he would stay in a 14 year relationship with someone he didn't love, respect or even enjoy. And why his girlfriend is sticking with him if he has no plans of making a future with her.

[norajane]

I see absolutely no reason why you need to leave your job! You can either end this relationship or give him an ultimatum where he breaks up with his gf if he wants to be with you, but no, you don't have to leave your job.

[pureinheart]

Hey Torrance...

 

Both replies are right on the money...career first, as*holes second....

 

I have to tell you this guy sounded like the ex-MM I was involved with....he did the same exact thing....chased me for yrs, talked sh*t about W in the beginning then when he got me he didn't know what to do with me, and went back running....I'll never forget it, and really didn't understand it....oh and ex-MM is a cakeman.

 

Hey HN it's BH that doesn't like the term cake eaters, I think cakeman is ok....I could be wrong though, have been wrong I think maybe once before...lol

 

Hey Bonehead....is cakeman ok????????

[herenow]

But I like cake eaters. I am one. I can eat cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Especially if it's chocolate cake. Sorry for the threadjack, I'll stop now.

 

Hey Torrance...

 

Both replies are right on the money...career first, as*holes second....

 

I have to tell you this guy sounded like the ex-MM I was involved with....he did the same exact thing....chased me for yrs, talked sh*t about W in the beginning then when he got me he didn't know what to do with me, and went back running....I'll never forget it, and really didn't understand it....oh and ex-MM is a cakeman.

 

Hey HN it's BH that doesn't like the term cake eaters, I think cakeman is ok....I could be wrong though, have been wrong I think maybe once before...lol

 

Hey Bonehead....is cakeman ok????????

[GreenEyedLady]

But I like cake eaters. I am one. I can eat cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Especially if it's chocolate cake. Sorry for the threadjack, I'll stop now.

 

Cheesecake, the best kind of cake that there is...

[puddleofmud]

This may sound strange coming from ME, considering most of my opinions/ posts. BUT

You are both not married and not committed via property or material entanglement and no one resides with anyone thus far as to ownership. ALL are soundly employed or are able to support ones self, as well there are no children to consider.

This means that ALL are single, PERIOD.

Thus, all is fair. Though it would not be in the best interest of one's integrity to be mean or evasive as there is a fourteen year relationship to consider and you are the better person because you care about this.

Sadly, someone will be terribly hurt and it won't be easy nor it this your responsibility. It would be fair for you to observe HOW your belove deals with this as this would be a hallmark of his character and your future relationship.

Other than that, don't you DARE quit your job! This is something YOU earned and NO ONE should take from you!

No matter what happens YOU can buy what YOU want--houses, land, unicorns, whatever. (don't forget the shoes!)

You have wonderful friends and are supported and if you are in love then I say,

"GO FOR IT". !!!!!!!!!

Should it not work out you still have wonderful friends and a great job and can do what the heck ever you wish!

You've not a thing to loose but your heart and you gave that long ago and both of you are SINGLE so no reason to muddle with this any longer.

Best wishes and I soooo hope you get what your heart desires!

[kymberann]

I don't know POM, I get what you say, but when it comes to him making a decision he needs to choose! I couldn't feel the need or the want to progress with such a man if I knew he didn't officially end it with the other, even though all parties involved are "single".

 

There must be something there still in the R that is keeping him with her, or unwilling to severe all ties. They have 14 years of history, that has to account for something whether their history is good ot not.

 

I say ultimatum time. I doubt he would seriously leave if he can continue with having R's with the both of you!

Hope it works out!

Best

[puddleofmud]

I do agree, KA. As all are single it is high time to pinch the bud and see what blooms.

[pureinheart]

But I like cake eaters. I am one. I can eat cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Especially if it's chocolate cake. Sorry for the threadjack, I'll stop now.

 

Ok HN....maybe Bonehead will change his mind....hummm chocolate cake...ya he will change his mind...lol

[frannie]

Hmm well, just because people aren't married in my opinion doesn't make them 'single' exactly. He's been with this woman and living together and presumably she believes they're in an exclusive relationship. But that aside.

 

From what you say about him he has trouble committing in general, and that probably explains the cold feet when you offered a 'real' relationship with him. It's all very well 'loving from afar' someone you think you have no chance with, but when it comes to action it's another matter entirely. He could be someone who is impossible to have a real, exclusive relationship with at all (could be... the signs are there).

 

Secondly, the way he bad-mouths his girlfriend to others is a really bad sign. Maybe he doesn't do it to you directly, but I don't know that's not even worse... he generally criticises her to friends..? Can't admire that kind of behaviour.

 

And thirdly... the one night stands (that everyone knows about?)because he's 'not satisfied' at home. Again... this isn't great behaviour. I know you are saying 'oh well it wouldn't be the same with me because I'd keep him satisfied, etc' and that may be true... but really, added to all the other information it gives a picture of a man who is behaving somewhat childishly (sorry) and can't take responsibility for sorting out his priorities and responsibilities. He's probably happy with her because she's there for him despite his acting like an idiot. Why change that?

 

I feel that you're looking at 'the man he could be' rather than the man he is. Put yourself in his girlfriend's shoes... because that's what you'd be dealing with, not some ideal circumstance in which he suddenly becomes a better man because he's with you. JMHO.

[torranceshipman]

Good advice girls, and you're right, he's such a child...why on earth he is still with the girlfriend, I don't know, and I guess he might be one of the least complicated guys on here in a sense - no marriage, no kids, not even a shared mortgage....no physical relationship with the girlfriend...we even have the same friends and would make a pretty respectable professional couple (I mention that in case leaving the security / respectability is an issue for him) ....and he is very into me...we have a close friendship and an attraction that has lasted for years, so if I was a guy like him, I wouldnt hesistate to leave!! He even tells me he is crazy about me, so the problem cant be that he has lost interest in this 'relationship' of ours...

 

So in actual fact, what on earth is going on...and if THIS guy is dragging his feet, lord knows what he'd be like if he actually did have a kid or house or marriage to consider! Do you think he needs a push of some kind??

 

If we didnt work together, by the way, I'd have run off a LONG time ago! But it's in my face every day, as we work together VERY closely, so I have to get a resolution of some kind to this...

[frannie]

... so if I was a guy like him, I wouldnt hesistate to leave!! He even tells me he is crazy about me, so the problem cant be that he has lost interest in this 'relationship' of ours...

 

So in actual fact, what on earth is going on...and if THIS guy is dragging his feet, lord knows what he'd be like if he actually did have a kid or house or marriage to consider! Do you think he needs a push of some kind??

 

I'm not sure about a 'push'... because I think pushing people doesn't generally work. It's his 'poor' relationship and his to end... if you're not happy with him in the situation he's in, then you probably would be best ending things with him. As you say, there appears to be no real reason for his 'stalling'.

 

My wild guess would be as I said in my last post... he's really happy in the situation, whatever he's telling you. Have you told him how you feel and what you're thinking..? What did he say..?

[torranceshipman]

I agree, there must be something there for him to stay, but then again, I'm very close to his family and all our mutual friends, who can't understand this any more than me, as he genuinely seems to be desperate to leave the girl, keeps saying he knows he has to make the split happen, and they have nothing in common - but of course he hasnt left her - we all thought he's just totally scared of facing up to hurting her, or the big change/trauma of losing all that security, etc, or maybe has some kind of phobia of being alone, or something, but now we're even more confused as he has me to go to, and hasnt done anything about leaving yet....??

[frannie]

I agree, there must be something there for him to stay, but then again, I'm very close to his family and all our mutual friends, who can't understand this any more than me, as he genuinely seems to be desperate to leave the girl, keeps saying he knows he has to make the split happen, and they have nothing in common - but of course he hasnt left her - we all thought he's just totally scared of facing up to hurting her, or the big change/trauma of losing all that security, etc, or maybe has some kind of phobia of being alone, or something, but now we're even more confused as he has me to go to, and hasnt done anything about leaving yet....??

 

So all his friends and family are wondering why he's still with this girl who he's so 'desperate' to get away from..? And all talking about it? She must feel terribly isolated...? Or don't people know her or what?

 

Do they all know that you're now involved with him..?

[norajane]

I agree, there must be something there for him to stay, but then again, I'm very close to his family and all our mutual friends, who can't understand this any more than me, as he genuinely seems to be desperate to leave the girl, keeps saying he knows he has to make the split happen, and they have nothing in common - but of course he hasnt left her - we all thought he's just totally scared of facing up to hurting her, or the big change/trauma of losing all that security, etc, or maybe has some kind of phobia of being alone, or something, but now we're even more confused as he has me to go to, and hasnt done anything about leaving yet....??

 

You do realize that even if he were somehow able to move himself to end that relationship for you, that you would then have to deal with his inability to commit to you (as in marriage or a life partnership where you both make and share future decisions)?

 

It's like people who keep saying they know they need to lose weight, but never actually make a single bit of effort to make any change in their eating or exercise habits. Or those who say they know they need to quit smoking, but somehow never even try via any method.

 

Even if he can manage to leave, you will later be hearing how he knows he needs to marry you or whatever, but makes no move to do so.

 

Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

[torranceshipman]

He he, OMG you're so right, it's that 'I have to lose weight' scenario, when people say it all the time then never do it! I used to be a fitness trainer years ago and you're right on the button with that one, great analogy.

 

Yes, well, I agree about the girlfriend feeling isolated, I feel bad for the girl (well, kind of, although she's an idiot for staying, as he wont even buy an apartment with her after 14yrs together!) - I told all of our mutual friends recently, because I couldnt see the point in keeping it all a secret, and why should anyone be lied to? Plus I thought if it was out in the open he might get cold feet and panic, and end it with me - hey, at least it's a resolution! - but of course he didnt...for me, it's more that I want an end to the current situation, and not have to deal with the jealousy thing of having to see him go home to another girl every day! If he was single I'd feel a lot happier, and by default we'd be dating by then...I just know my self control is pretty crap so I havent ended it as I love the time that I spend with the guy...I do love him but I'm also a very sensible girl - if he was a pain in the ass/disrespectful to me if we did ever end up being a couple, I'd bin him. BUT I want the chance to find out.

 

Girls, here's a question though - the girl he's with is very, very plain, and quiet and unassuming (but gorgeous to the right guy, I'm sure!) - whereas I'm the outgoing, confident, ex-cheerleader, type...he thinks every guy in the world is attracted to me (which they arent, obviously, he's just delusional!), and my friends say he might feel threatened/insecure with me, whereas he feels he always has the upper hand with her. You think theres truth to that? - and do any of you feel that might be a problem with your MM?

[whichwayisup]

The more you keep him in your life as things are, the chances of him ending with her are so slim. You want to see how he really feels? Break up with him and tell him NEVER to contact you again UNTIL he's broken up with his girlfriend. And only THEN will you consider going out with him.

 

By doing this, you're forcing him to make a choice. He needs a fire lit under his bum-bum otherwise life will be as it is now and things won't change for ANY of you.

[torranceshipman]

I totally agree, I am very in favor of the ultimatum. Only problem is...I know him so well and if I dumped him, he'd just call me/email me/set up a meeting with me at work every day (he's technically my line manager at our consultancy, although I'm a manager as well-we need a lot of work contact, as we work on all of the same projects), so he wont EVER have to miss me as long as we're still working together. OK, he wont get the intimate stuff if I dump him, but my voice is still on the end of the phone if he wants to hear it...short of leaving work, which I don't want to do, its a toughie!

[shoesies05]

I would say to totally leave the guy and NOT the career!

 

So you've known this guy for years, he's been with his gf even longer ( and not married her... odd), and he's cheated on her. You talk about the one night stands like they aren't a big deal, but trust me they are.

 

This guy has shown his character for years, he has shown you that he's not leaving her. What he does with her is a pretty good show of what he is going to do with you. Why would her leave her now, after 14 years?

[frannie]

Girls, here's a question though - the girl he's with is very, very plain, and quiet and unassuming (but gorgeous to the right guy, I'm sure!) - whereas I'm the outgoing, confident, ex-cheerleader, type...he thinks every guy in the world is attracted to me (which they arent, obviously, he's just delusional!), and my friends say he might feel threatened/insecure with me, whereas he feels he always has the upper hand with her. You think theres truth to that? - and do any of you feel that might be a problem with your MM?

 

Well, that could be part of why he likes staying with her, yes. And there could be a hundred other reasons he's not telling you.

 

I think the thing is, you're trying to work out why he won't leave, when all the time it's like norajane and I said: he's showing his character as a non-committer and someone who is really behaving horribly to his girlfriend. I have a suspicion that he thinks even if she finds out she'll take it, forgive him, and remain the girlfriend who has no committment from him for just as long as he wants it... why would he give that up when he can have you, and one night stands, and whatever else he wants..? After all, leaving her and getting together with you... you might start wanting all sorts of inconvenient things, like marriage, joint finances, fidelity...

 

Do you think that makes sense, or does it sound out of character for him..?

[torranceshipman]

You know what, I do think you're right. My gut feeling is that the guy is scared to death of change, and of losing control over the situation...right now he has a girl he can control, and he is doing everything he can to hold on to that security. It's stupid as he is miserable, frustrated, and the only reason for the one night stands are because he literally has NO physical relationship with the girlfriend, and he's only 35, man, what a nightmare to choose to live like that (his stupid choice though). But if he's too scared to leave, then not much I can do about that, I suppose. Sad as he really does love me, and this was a real good chance for him to be happy.

 

Plus, we never got together as something casual - he told me before anything happened that he wanted a very serious relationship with me, that he had wished I'd told him I liked him years before, as he feels we've wasted so many amazing years as a couple, that he'd leave the girlfriemd, we'd wait a month or so, then announce we were together - and his plan was that we tell everyone this was really serious, so they would be happy to accept us as a couple, and blah blah blah...he was really pushing the agenda on all this, I was more cautious...I think he scared the holy crap out of himself!

 

I've got to ship out really...I know it shouldn't be me that has to leave my job, but then again there's a whole world out there, with a lot of great (single!) guys in it, and I'm just no good at standing by and being drawn into this whole negative situation...either he leaves her, or I leave the job, I reckon...

 

One thing - when I was much younger, I was with a guy for 8yrs, and I stayed YEARS longer than I should have, even though the physical side had disappeared, and we had no shared assets, kids or anything. I can't explain it now, but I know human nature can be this weird way - I was the same, maybe 2 or 3yrs I tried to leave the guy, it took me that long...misplaced loyalty, not knowing how good it could really be if it was right, etc - it really makes no sense, but I think this guy and lots of the MMs discussed on this board might genuinely be going through the same (misguided) thing.