Love Hurts Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 All individuals come to Christ in his or her own way and for his or her own reasons. When and if one is not naturally drawn to God a higher power. Perhaps the knowledge of what Jesus came to Save us from; is more reason to call him Savior. There is a ground shaking new video and book out …… by a man (Bill Wiese) that describes his 23 minutes in hell. Its worth the watch…. It may help confirm your personal decisions of life and the here after. ………Or not. The video is one hour and 36 min long… The first ten minutes begin a little slow as he speaks of Bible verses. And then it takes off as Bill goes into his amazing story; of his journey into hell. If you have time......... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=648563944666093503 Down load google player first then download video please post your opinions........
dropdeadlegs Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Okay, I was intrigued so I watched it very early this morning. It's not all that new and the first 20 minutes quote a lot of scripture. I didn't really learn anything new other than some people claim to have been to Hell, much like many people claim to have died only to be told to come back because their work here isn't done. I just hadn't heard of those who had been to Hell. Some people claim to have seen alien life forms, too. Actually I believe that all of these people could have had these experiences. I haven't had any of them, but I believe they are possible. It didn't change my point of view because I have always thought Hell exists, that it is horrible beyond imagination and description, and that it is the alternative to eternal life through the Lord's salvation. I am, however very interested in other's belief's and how they came to their conclusions. Some people's dogma and tenets sound so much easier to live by and I definitely have concerns about the number of people going to Hell based on my personal beliefs. By most Christian opinions I may be going there myself. My beliefs are more liberal than those of the Roman Catholic faith and those of the Conservative Protestant faiths. I suppose there is always someone out there who will have their "moment of truth" based on the fear this video and others like it, as well as many sermons, provoke. I thought the speaker did a good job of keeping his story interesting in this one. the hour and a half did not actually seem that long to me.
Author Love Hurts Posted December 29, 2006 Author Posted December 29, 2006 Personally I was intrigued as he described hell and the demons in such detail. I have never heard such a description of Hell. Coming to the Lord was out of Love on my part. I had several close calls to death. Several head ons with calamity and at the last minute circumstances came out as If I were never there at all. Example... once I drowned and was revived. Another time ....I was chased by a drunk driver as I was on foot everywhere I ran ….he aimed his car. A stonewall behind me as I ran up and down a sidewalk trying to get out of the way. At the last minute I ran between the wall and a telephone pole that was erected out of the sidewalk. The car hit the pole and wrapped around it. When I looked down I had an inch to spare before the vehicle would have had my legs pinned to the wall. Having had so many close calls; I knew Jesus was looking over me. I was brought up in a Christian home.. but my salvation came as a late teen. I came to Christ because He first loved me. Hell was not my reason. However I believe Hell is a real place. My hope is if some do not consider the love of God.. that they may consider the hatred of Satan. Jesus came to Save……. us from hell.
bluetuesday Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 i watched 48 minutes, the whole thing was just too much to bear. clearly an interesting experience for the man but i don't believe there is a physical place called hell 4,000 miles below the earth's surface where demons with scaly bodies roam about pulling people's arms off. i do believe there is a state of mind you could call hell, but it's a temporary state in which a person feels separated from god. certainly no truly loving and forgiving god would design a place like the one this man claims to have visited, where anyone who isn't a bible-believing, 'word-of-god' christian ends up being tortured for eternity with no hope of parole. no one would wish that level of abuse on their worst enemies, let alone on their children who lived peaceful and compassionate lives in a non-christian religion, or in no religion at all. jesus would be pulling his hair out at this, i imagine. to think the religion which took his name is still trying to control people through fear after he gave his life to preach a message of love. such a shame.
quankanne Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 like BT, I believe that hell exists when man is separated from God. All the stories of fire and brimstone are poor visuals when explaining the pain of that separation ... I have a problem with people being "scared to Jesus" – I think the "Left Behind" books did a fantastic job of doing just that – because one's relationship with God shouldn't be based in fear. Rather, it should be a dialogue of love with someone who does it best. I don't think there's ever been a time that I've felt that I wasn't his, or he mine, because my mother (who was my faith role model) did a wonderful job of instilling God's love in me through her own love and by her example. I guess it's been a very natural thing that's always been, like breathing. I know he's present in my life and I know that he's protected me from the repercussions of some of the more bone-headed things I've done in my life. And I've felt his unsolicited presence when I was going through the most painful time in my life. I know he's real, and I know he's love. And I wish people who are trying to evangelize would focus on that love, not scare people into believing.
Author Love Hurts Posted December 29, 2006 Author Posted December 29, 2006 Because Lucifer was the first sinner I JOHN 3:8 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the *devil sinneth from the *beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. *Hell was prepared originally for the Devil and His Demons MATTHEW 25: 41 .......... 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: If God is not our Father then He call those children the devils child. John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. If you belong to Jesus you know He will chastise His own. He does it out of love. Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. The bottom line is Hell is a real place. And if we are not sons of God then we call the Devil our Father. As for God being all Love and Honey. He is love.. but if you belong to Jesus. Prepare to get chastised; that is another side of Him, you don’t want to be on for long. I don’t desire to spread fear…….. only the awareness of reality yet unseen. I believe in the word and the word says Hell is real. That’s enough for me.
bluetuesday Posted December 29, 2006 Posted December 29, 2006 He is love.. but if you belong to Jesus. Prepare to get chastised; that is another side of Him, you don’t want to be on for long. he is love.. ONLY if you belong to jesus? so you're saying god doesn't love all people unconditionally, he loves you only if you claim jesus as your saviour. i'm sorry, i think that is one of the most damaging, divisory, delusional mindsets on the planet and whoever has taught you that and got you to believe it is working for the other guy. god IS love, and in him there is no darkness at all. there is no 'other side' to god. if your religion tells you otherwise, question your religion. don't try to squeeze god into a mold designed by men. if you do, you've made god into a graven image and are dancing around a golden calf. the lie that god loves only a certain set of people or people of a certain belief is blashphemy of the worst kind. god IS love. that's worth repeating. yes, some people end up in hell - they end up believing they are separated from god. that is NEVER a punishment or chastisement from god. it is always the person's free will choice and god is ALWAYS ready for them to turn around and begin the climb back home, even from the depths of hell.
Author Love Hurts Posted December 30, 2006 Author Posted December 30, 2006 he is love.. ONLY if you belong to jesus? so you're saying god doesn't love all people unconditionally, he loves you only if you claim jesus as your saviour. i'm sorry, i think that is one of the most damaging, divisory, delusional mindsets on the planet and whoever has taught you that and got you to believe it is working for the other guy. god IS love, and in him there is no darkness at all. there is no 'other side' to god. if your religion tells you otherwise, question your religion. don't try to squeeze god into a mold designed by men. if you do, you've made god into a graven image and are dancing around a golden calf. the lie that god loves only a certain set of people or people of a certain belief is blashphemy of the worst kind. god IS love. that's worth repeating. yes, some people end up in hell - they end up believing they are separated from god. that is NEVER a punishment or chastisement from god. it is always the person's free will choice and god is ALWAYS ready for them to turn around and begin the climb back home, even from the depths of hell. No Im not saying He does not love all people. If you read my earlier post. I came to Him because I knew He was watching over me. That’s out of love. He loved me before I knew Him. Its as if He were calling to me and I turned around to Him.. Until the very end He is there waiting and watching to see if we will in our free choice turn to Him. He says He does not chastise those that do not belong to Him. I am His. I was saved. I call Him, Lord, Father, Master, and Merciful Savior. We are all Gods children until we decide otherwise. For example a newborn infant Is covered under the gift of free grace. If that baby were to pass away it does not go to hell. God has it. All children are covered under that heavenly gift of free grace until they are old enough to decide otherwise. Meaning they want nothing to do with God. Only then does He lets go. When David's baby died in 2 Samuel 12:23 he said that he would go to be with the baby, which implies that the baby went to heaven to be with the Lord. God would not hold children accountable for concepts they can't understand completely ... like heaven and hell ... and eternal life ... and accepting Christ. There is no set age when this happens, but usually by the time the child is 18 or so ... they have decided which way they will go on this matter. People mature differently, so we pretty much have to leave this entire situation to God and know that He is fair and just, and that He will do the right thing by the children. Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. I am a partaker of the Holy Spirit then I partake of His chastisement. If ….I do not get chastised when I am wrong. Then I am not a son but a bastard. So what is a bastard - A bastard is a child begotten out of lawful matrimony; an illegitimate child. If we do not belong to Christ ………we are illegitimate children. Not His. So If Christ disowns a child who then will claim it? It’s the Devils Child. Yes God Loves His Children………. We have free choice… As do the angles in Heaven have free choice. God made no puppets to bow and worship Him. All have free choice. On earth and in Heaven. Lucifer was banned from Heaven and took 1/3 of the angels with him. Free choice. No one was holding them. They did what they wanted. That’s what its all about.. Freedom. We do what we want. It’s your life. Brief or long as it may be. It’s yours to pick and choose. Who would respect a God that made us puppets? Its all about free choice. Still ..........He waits.
dropdeadlegs Posted December 30, 2006 Posted December 30, 2006 I am His. I was saved. I call Him, Lord, Father, Master, and Merciful Savior. We are all Gods children until we decide otherwise. ****I was saved as a child (8 years) and my understanding is that I am STILL saved, regardless of my acts since, as long as I have asked for forgiveness of those sins. What is your understanding? For example a newborn infant Is covered under the gift of free grace. If that baby were to pass away it does not go to hell. God has it. All children are covered under that heavenly gift of free grace until they are old enough to decide otherwise. Meaning they want nothing to do with God. Only then does He lets go. *****I was also raised to believe this, but have recently come upon Christian beliefs that state that without baptism children are not covered under free grace. I had a stillborn child long after I was saved. I believe that child is protected. When David's baby died in 2 Samuel 12:23 he said that he would go to be with the baby, which implies that the baby went to heaven to be with the Lord. God would not hold children accountable for concepts they can't understand completely ... like heaven and hell ... and eternal life ... and accepting Christ. There is no set age when this happens, but usually by the time the child is 18 or so ... they have decided which way they will go on this matter. People mature differently, so we pretty much have to leave this entire situation to God and know that He is fair and just, and that He will do the right thing by the children. Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. I am a partaker of the Holy Spirit then I partake of His chastisement. If ….I do not get chastised when I am wrong. Then I am not a son but a bastard. So what is a bastard - A bastard is a child begotten out of lawful matrimony; an illegitimate child. ******My grandchild was born to unmarried parents. Where does that leave her? I cannot truly confirm their status with God. To many she is a bastard. If we do not belong to Christ ………we are illegitimate children. Not His. So If Christ disowns a child who then will claim it? It’s the Devils Child. Yes God Loves His Children………. We have free choice… As do the angles in Heaven have free choice. God made no puppets to bow and worship Him. All have free choice. On earth and in Heaven. Lucifer was banned from Heaven and took 1/3 of the angels with him. Free choice. No one was holding them. They did what they wanted. That’s what its all about.. Freedom. We do what we want. It’s your life. Brief or long as it may be. It’s yours to pick and choose. Who would respect a God that made us puppets? Its all about free choice. Still ..........He waits. ******I was raised in Christianity, but more of my own choice than my parents. I went to many Christian churches and didn't exactly differentiate from the basic tenets, so I pretty much got Jesus and all , but have discovered there are some minor differences in each church's doctrines. I went to Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Church of the Nazarene, Pentecostal, Roman Catholic, Quaker, and spent one Sunday in a Jewish Temple. Which church did you choose? I am very interested in the subject of theology and am learning all I can about different beliefs.
Author Love Hurts Posted December 30, 2006 Author Posted December 30, 2006 Hey DDL, I was raised Baptist but haven’t attended church steady for years at this point in time. My study is through the King James Bible, where Salvation is by far the most important teaching. Being caught up to heaven with Jesus or the Rapture word for it. Has many theologians still split on post- trib and pre- trib rapture. I’m aware of both teachings and lean towards pre. If wrong, It doesn’t matter. Because saved; One day or another we are going home. The diff is; Seven years sooner or later. The Anti Christ is to be empowered upon the earth for a seven-year reign. Have you read of him and the mark of the beast? Anyone who takes his number will not enter Heaven. See as people are slipping further away from Jesus. It’s mush easier for the world to accept the Antichrist. What is happening in the world now… is written in Revelation. Its like a play script and you watch it unfold with out surprise. I can see you’re busy in your research, if I could suggest something, it would be… focus on Revelation. I hope that was of some help... if not ask anything you want. Ttyl..... on this... God Bless
Author Love Hurts Posted December 30, 2006 Author Posted December 30, 2006 ****I was saved as a child (8 years) and my understanding is that I am STILL saved, regardless of my acts since, as long as I have asked for forgiveness of those sins. What is your understanding? ----------------------------- Yes once saved always saved. We are going to sin and ask for forgiveness. It’s the grievous heart when you do sin that lets you know you belong to the lord. And we repent. ------------------------------ *****I was also raised to believe this, but have recently come upon Christian beliefs that state that without baptism children are not covered under free grace. I had a stillborn child long after I was saved. I believe that child is protected. ------------------------------ Infant babies are covered by the free gift of grace. God is merciful, fair and just.He said suffer not the little children. Children are the closest to heaven we have on earth. Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. --------------------------------- ******My grandchild was born to unmarried parents. Where does that leave her? I cannot truly confirm their status with God. To many she is a bastard. ------------------------------------- Do not confuse this with not one of Gods children. It’s a name for a child out of born out of wedlock. according to the word of God………but that does not mean she is a throw away to God. Let me add my sister has a bastard and she is a beautiful young girl and she is saved. She is innocent of her status; the sins of the mother are not the sins of the child. Each of us is responsible for their own sins to answer for. She is a product of sin. Again we are all sinners saved by grace. She at her age is still covered by the free gift of grace until she is old enough to say ……… I don’t want Jesus. And then He lets go. Gods emphasis is more on us not being legitimate children of his. ----------------------- There is only one non forgivable sin.... one we will never be pardoned from. Its called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. I hope that helps DDL. Ttyl....
Author Love Hurts Posted December 31, 2006 Author Posted December 31, 2006 Yes, it did help. Thank you. DDL, On my last wink when I responded to you. I doubt I explained well enough and may have hurt you, let me try this segment again. Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Jesus emphasis on children being bastards not sons…is for. Children being born out of wedlock; meaning we are not in the marriage of Christ. Individuals that are saved are considered the Church of Christ or the Bride of Christ. Are betrothed to Him. He is called the Bridegroom. The Bride is to be faithful to the Groom. A few scriptures to back this up; Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee …………….the bride, the Lamb's wife. Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. If we do not belong to Christ ………we are illegitimate children. Not His. When we are His we are in Wedlock. Children born out of the Wedlock of Christ are called Bastards. Not sons. John 10:27 My sheep (children) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: There is no curse on your grandchild. The emphasis of Hebrews 12:8 is on the children of God or not of God. I hope I cleared this up; I do apologize for any discomfort I may have left you with. It certainly was not my intent. Love conquers all. In the end its what God calls us that’s important. God Bless
dropdeadlegs Posted December 31, 2006 Posted December 31, 2006 No need to explain and no discomfort here. Thank you for taking the time to post the additional info. Wow, you sure do know your scripture. Do you know if there is there a book of some kind that you look up a subject, and it tells a person where to find the appropriate scripture for that subject? I assume there is some sort of Bible study guide handbook or something. A lot of people on this board have knocked the "Left Behind" series for having bad writing, but I read all 12 books and found them to be easy to read with characters I liked, and as a result I think I have a much better understanding of the Book of Revelations. That one always confused me, well lots of Bible verses are hard for me to understand. I do not attend church myself but have recently been interested in studying my own religion, but also trying to get a better understanding of others. This started after 9/11 because I needed to grasp and try to understand how Islam could be so tied to terrorist acts. Theology is very interesting and I admit that there are some things about other religions that I genuinely like, but I cannot get past that they do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God, was born of a Virgin birth, and died for my Salvation. Thanks again, and if you know of any study guides that help find and explain scripture, I would sure like a recommendation.
Author Love Hurts Posted December 31, 2006 Author Posted December 31, 2006 For your studies I would like to recommend my two favorites; For serious home study I get a good understanding from Jack Van Impe, I purchased his Revelation Revealed. That man has a photogenic mind and the entire Bible is in his head. Along with the Koran and hundreds of other books on theology. He compares and explains the diff in religions and really gets into explaining Revelation verse-by-verse break down. He is the best in the break down of Rev. man of God I have listened to. If you view him on television... He has so much to say so quickly and with the restraints coming down on what television ministers can say and what they cannot say. He recommends you purchase his tapes. He tells it all on his tapes without restraints. Plus on tape you can rewind and listen again as often as needed until you understand. I enjoy John Hagee he is a hysterically humorous at times preacher. No lemon sucking Christians aloud. Lol You feel uplifted and educated spiritually and joyous laughter is a promise at every one of his sermons. I also collect his tapes. These men of God are on television. Check your program guide and give them a listen. These men are non denominational they teach from the King James Bible. God Bless DDL and May God aid you in your quest to find the truth. This is your word search, verse search and entire bible. http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=seek+and+you+shall+find&ver=kjv
Author Love Hurts Posted December 31, 2006 Author Posted December 31, 2006 Off hand I don’t have a recommendation on a book. Recall Samson of the bible and the Philistines he killed. They were not Gods children and are a good definition of bastards. The Old Testament scriptures, which Samson possessed, were very clear about God's prohibition of intermarriage between the Israelites and surrounding pagan nations. This provision stemmed from God's love. He knew that if they married into these idolatrous peoples the nation of Israel itself would become idolatrous. Heathen wives would pollute the households with their idols. And God knew that wives chosen out of these nations would be miserable as well. To be unequally yoked in this way would result in a relationship, which would chafe both parties. So because he loved his people, and because he loved the world, God had commanded that they were not to intermarry with unbelievers. But Samson cared nothing for this. I would also dwell on this verse. Matthew 12:32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Jesus said All manner of sin.. that’s all sin…. Shall be forgiven unto men. He cant lie, He wouldn’t say it if it were not true. The only unforgivable sin … we can never repent from is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Now go to the last book of the bible Rev. 22 Revelation 22 :19 19 And if any man shall….. take away from the words of the book of this prophecy,….. God shall take away his part out of the book of life, …. and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. There you have it potential Blasphemy. What I am getting at; is next to the…. last words… in the Bible. God makes mention of the Act of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. When I read this it reminds me……… of Mathew 12:32 And I recall……” All “….sin is forgiven…. but one. God Bless
umbo Posted January 4, 2007 Posted January 4, 2007 Wow I watched the entire video and I am so overwhelmed with Bill Wiese that was phenomenal. Thankyou so much for providing the link and posting it Wow I will forever be changed.
Author Love Hurts Posted January 4, 2007 Author Posted January 4, 2007 Wow I watched the entire video and I am so overwhelmed with Bill Wiese that was phenomenal. Thankyou so much for providing the link and posting it Wow I will forever be changed. Umbo, Praise Jesus for Bill Wiese having been sent to the belly of the earths eternal Hell. That he could tell us of his horrifying experience, giving us a glimpse of what is on the other side of this life. Some do not believe Hell is a real place and that people like Bill are poor misguided fools spinning horror tales for attention. Personally I believe. I have no doubt Hell is real. Just as I know Jesus lives. Bills story is a gift to us from above…Jesus calls; His children to come Home. He calls out to us… through any voice that is willing to speak: to share His word of love and tell of the free gift of salvation: Won’t you Step into His Holy Spirit, stand in His presence on Holy Ground? God Bless
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