Calling all rabbits

[whichwayisup]

Thank god you posted I was beginning to think I was all alone and certainly outnumbered. It seems like the carrot line I have heard before from somebody on this site. I am married and feel like my mm is my true love even with all his faults. There is still something there and I am sick and tired of everybody telling me it's a fantasy. I feel like right now I am taking the bad because there is alot of good. So in answer to your ? I am rowing along right next to you. If I hear the word NC once more ...... I think it is a conspiracy on this site to get all ow and om to stay away from married people. I am just curious how gel a big advocator of nc is staying with her mm and how which way is up is all over the boards. Have they secretly been planted here and are they real at all. Wow I am getting off track. Just a thought because I feel like no until now addicted understands what I am going through and how it maybe does not have to be all or nothing.

FF I've tried to help you alot in your past posts. To be honest, I won't anymore because there's no point. My words are falling on your deaf ears. Seems you don't want to stop your affair, you want to stay married and have a life, a house with kids and you want your MM on the side. You have no intention of ending or going NC with your MM.

 

Good luck.

[yousaveme]

As for the OP I am also in the same boat. I love him with all my heart and soul. And I know he feels the same way for me. Neither one of us were looking for this situtation but we are glad it happened. The timing sucks with him being the MM. We got caught and never really committed to NC. We both know what we feel is real and something we both want with our whole heart. We have no doubts.

 

My hope is that all this drama will end sooner than later and we can be happy for a very long time.

[noforgiveness]

this makes me think, may be I can marry someone else, be in an open relationship and continue seeing the MW as a life long affair.

 

True love conquers. Look at Charles and Diana. Picture perfect marriage with a twist.

 

Charles married for the wrong reasons. His real love was that other Woman who now has him FULL time.

 

 

oyster is this really what you want in life?

I can not believe you are actually discussing moving on getting married etc and then hoping to one day carry on this affair again. Do you know how selfish this sounds to the future wife you haven't even met yet?

 

I hope you can clear your heart of this woman or fully have her in it before you move on to another relationship. It's not fair to your future love.

 

It's almost like you believe this whole affair thing is fine because you are in love.

[Freedom Now]

First off, I am not going to try to sway you people who are happy and content in your affairs. It is your life and you have the freedom to live it as you see fit.

 

But, I would like to give you some food for thought,

 

I, too, was once where you are. My MM adored me. He showed me in his actions and words. He was in constant contact with me when he couldn't see me, showered me with love and gifts when I was sick, planned extravagant romantic trips for us....he was a dream. And I adored him as much as he adored me. We discussed marriage, our children, our plans for the future.

 

But, then SHE found out. He denied everything about me. Yes, he defended me to her, but only as a friend. I didn't exist in his heart according to him. When the cards were laid on the table, he folded. His opportunity to leave was squandered. And he chose his marriage over me.

 

You could have knocked me over with a feather. I was THAT SURE that we would be together. My kids saw the adoration in his eyes for me, strangers stopped us to tell us what an attractive couple we were and how in love we looked. We were like the golden couple together.

 

But he ran scared. Did he come back after the dust settled? You betcha. And it didn't take long. About two weeks. That's all. But, here's the thing. I trusted that he would NEVER hurt me. And he did. Deeply.

 

You only know the depth of his love for you when he is faced with giving up his life as he has known if (for my MM it was 20 years) for you. Yes, he may love you. Yes, he may adore you and treat you well now.

 

But the true test is when you are revealed. What will he do then? Make an honest woman out of you or do what mine did? Run away to come back when it was safe?

 

I know how you all feel. You love is different. I thought that too. And I have no doubt in my mind that he still loves me. But the fact remains, he discarded me when it came to him losing his ass.

 

And, I now see that even though his words and actions matched, when the true test came, he failed.

 

I hope this doesn't happen to any of you. But be aware. A man can be totally devoted before D day, but when he sees his life forever being altered the next, may just think about it and say, "Nah."

 

And being his OW again is an abomination in my mind now. He had his chance with me. And he blew it.

[bonehead]

I can not believe you are actually discussing moving on getting married etc and then hoping to one day carry on this affair again.

 

He said married in an OPEN relationship.

 

Works for some

[noforgiveness]

He said married in an OPEN relationship.

 

Works for some

 

 

why get married then? What is the purpose of saying marriage vows? I can possibly see after being married for a while and maybe needing more possibly deciding to enter into an open situation but I can not see going into a marriage with no intent of acting married and having an open relationship from the start. That's not marriage.

[bonehead]

why get married then? What is the purpose of saying marriage vows? I can possibly see after being married for a while and maybe needing more possibly deciding to enter into an open situation but I can not see going into a marriage with no intent of acting married and having an open relationship from the start. That's not marriage.

 

tax reasons, duel income.

 

Its not up to US to define marriage for THEM.

 

If it works for them its their choice.

[noforgiveness]

tax reasons, duel income.

 

Its not up to US to define marriage for THEM.

 

If it works for them its their choice.

 

 

lol they are not even a them yet.

He hasn't even met his mrs. He just wants to leave a door open for this woman. That's sad and I hope oyster can get through this without having to leave that door cracked. It's unfair to him and his future wife to feel this way.

[bonehead]

lol they are not even a them yet.

He hasn't even met his mrs. He just wants to leave a door open for this woman. That's sad and I hope oyster can get through this without having to leave that door cracked. It's unfair to him and his future wife to feel this way.

 

we can not say whats fair to him and his future Mrs.

 

Who knows she may have a guy that she wants to continue with.

 

If its ok with THEM, its no one elses business

[pureinheart]

You've got it exactly. And I found out exactly where I stood after 7 yrs.

 

What surprised me most of all was - my life didn't end! But ONLY because I wouldn't let it. Go figure.

 

Actually your life began....lol....ex-MM surely showed his true colors to me....I too thought I was "the real woman" in his life, they are so good at creating this delusion, they are seasoned veterans at the game of deception. He saw me coming.....

[frannie]

why get married then? What is the purpose of saying marriage vows? I can possibly see after being married for a while and maybe needing more possibly deciding to enter into an open situation but I can not see going into a marriage with no intent of acting married and having an open relationship from the start. That's not marriage.

 

Hm, well that is marriage, if that's the way you both want it to be. If it's agreed up front and no one is being cheated on there's no reason at all why it wouldn't work out. Not everyone wants the same thing from life, or marriage.

 

In my opinion going into something with everything stated from the first is more likely to work than bringing others in when things start to get a little stale and boring. That usually seems to be a recipe for disaster.

[addicted2love]

When I posted this I simply wanted to hear from other people who were in the same boat. I realize that in these forums we open ourselves up to oppinions and critisizm. I've walked in both pairs of shoes. I've been the BW...it sucks and hurts and yes it isn't fair. For me it changed my entire view of my H and marriage in general. I also saw my H as a human being for doing what he did. That is part of why I got over his affair and I never bring it up now.

 

Human beings are sexual creatures. We crave love, affection and physical attention. When our needs aren't being met we find ways to fill the void. We can't help who we fall in love with. Aside from what I've heard you folks call "serial cheaters" I think it's impossible to say..."I'd NEVER do that or my spouse would NEVER cheat on me". I used to believe that with very strong conviction. I also said I'd leave my husband if he ever cheated...no second chances. Truth is you really don't know what you would do until you are in a situation.

 

Society tells us to love and be married to only one person. Religion tells us it's wrong to covit thy neighbors wife...but if we think about it didn't God also give us the wonderful abilities to feel love, lust and physical passion? Everyone's belief systems are different. Mine continue to change the older I get and the more I learn.

 

All of the advice, counceling and judgement in the world can't change how an individual feels or thinks inside. We seek help from others when those feelings and thoughts confuse us but no one likes to be judged.

 

I think some of us haven't gone out on that limb and told our "entire" stories or stated our complete feelings for fear of being judged. I say it's healthy to ponder different kinds of relationships. Ones that are out of the "norm" or not the neatly tied up "idea" of how society thinks people should live.

 

I ponder a lifelong affair w/ my MM because I know how difficult it would be for him to walk away from everything he's worked so hard for most of his adult life. The same goes for me. Yeah we stay for the kids...we stay for the house and the job. We sacrafice so that others can be happy. We stay out of obligation and yes even out of love for our spouses. After all we did marry these people and should love them in some way right? But we can't help how we feel about each other. We can't turn it off, there is no switch. Is it fair to deny ourselves and feel our own hurt so that we spare others from getting hurt?

 

My H is a wonderful man...he's a great father and a great provider, but he has no clue after 12 years how to pay a complement, be thoughtful and sweet or romantic. Regardless of how I ask, what I say or do. I can't change him. These things I get from my MM. MM's W is a great mother, homemaker and I'm sure many other things, but she also is critical, demanding, judgemental, selfish and rejects him on a daily basis. So from me he gets tenderness, unconditional love and someone who would never turn him away if he needs to talk, laugh, etc.

 

We love our spouses but they will never be all of the things we need them to be....yes we should have married each other but we were young and foolish and didn't speak up when the time came...we gave up and have felt the pain of that mistake all of these years. Now we do what "society" says is right and keep our families in tact. But don't we deserve the happiness we bring to each other even on a part time basis?

 

Sorry if this is a long rant...I hope this offers others an explination of why things just "happen". We are not bad people but we were put on this earth with feelings and longings...we conform to what society thinks we should do. Who's to truly say what is right or wrong? I say don't through stones because you never know when your house will turn to glass! and NEVER say never it could be you one of these days.

[addicted2love]

why get married then? What is the purpose of saying marriage vows? I can possibly see after being married for a while and maybe needing more possibly deciding to enter into an open situation but I can not see going into a marriage with no intent of acting married and having an open relationship from the start. That's not marriage.

 

Your view of marriage is in it's traditional sense. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of us enter into marriage viewing it the same way...love, honor and cherish...forsaking all others. Then LIFE happens, human nature calls the shots and we are faced with denying our true selves or hurting the ones we love. It's a hard reality to face. We want to be selfish and we don't want to hurt others. It's very difficult to be torn between what we want and what we are told is right. Each individual situation is different. I think most people enter into marriage with strong convictions and the best of intentions. When faced with temptation some of us fail. This doesn't mean we don't love the person we married, it doesn't mean we are bad people it means we are human.

 

It wouldn't be possible for you to understand something you haven't experienced. If suddenly you were faced with a person that sets your heart on fire, completes you emotionally and in your heart you know you were meant to be with this person...but one problem..it's not your beloved spouse. You can say you wouldn't act on it but you truly don't know until it's staring you in the face.

[sadbuttrue]

Just curious to know how many OW/OM out there are in similar situations.

You love your MM/MW you've tried the NC thing and you feel like the heart just wants what the heart wants. I'm so tired of being told to go NC and not to bite on the "carrot" MM dangles in front of me or... if it was meant to be he'd leave the W to be with me.

 

Does anyone else feel like you take the good with the bad to stay involved with the person that fulfills you?

 

I'd really like to know if there are others rowing in my boat along with me.

Does anyone else feel like they can't give up on the person that they love regardless of right or wrong? Does anyone else believe in true love even if the situation isn't the way society thinks it "should" be.

 

I'd truly love to hear about it...

 

i agree with you a2l, i love my MM and i take what i can get from him because i would rather have whatever piece of his life he can share with me than nothing at all. i do admit to having hope that one day he could be only mine even though at this time he says he can not do that. i have not yet tried NC and do not believe it would benefit me. i want him to be in my life with whatever pain comes with it. and by agreeing to such a relationship i feel that i have knowingly accepted the obvious pain that is always a part of these situations.

[lovernotafighter]

we can not say whats fair to him and his future Mrs.

 

Who knows she may have a guy that she wants to continue with.

 

If its ok with THEM, its no one elses business

 

 

Don't waste your sweet little fingers on NF she has nothing better to do but be all up in every one's business... she sweetens her dirty sanchez's with a lil sugar so she can be all 'jesus-ish' in her responses...

 

she "just cares soooo much!!" *puke!*

[noforgiveness]

Don't waste your sweet little fingers on NF she has nothing better to do but be all up in every one's business... she sweetens her dirty sanchez's with a lil sugar so she can be all 'jesus-ish' in her responses...

 

she "just cares soooo much!!" *puke!*

That's funny considering I'm not religious.

You can have morals without religion. You can believe that people matter not me me me.

 

What's a matter are you insulted I didn't jump on your pm come ons. Feeling rejected?

[Guest]

When I posted this I simply wanted to hear from other people who were in the same boat. I realize that in these forums we open ourselves up to oppinions and critisizm. I've walked in both pairs of shoes. I've been the BW...it sucks and hurts and yes it isn't fair. For me it changed my entire view of my H and marriage in general. I also saw my H as a human being for doing what he did. That is part of why I got over his affair and I never bring it up now.

 

Human beings are sexual creatures. We crave love, affection and physical attention. When our needs aren't being met we find ways to fill the void. We can't help who we fall in love with. Aside from what I've heard you folks call "serial cheaters" I think it's impossible to say..."I'd NEVER do that or my spouse would NEVER cheat on me". I used to believe that with very strong conviction. I also said I'd leave my husband if he ever cheated...no second chances. Truth is you really don't know what you would do until you are in a situation.

 

Society tells us to love and be married to only one person. Religion tells us it's wrong to covit thy neighbors wife...but if we think about it didn't God also give us the wonderful abilities to feel love, lust and physical passion? Everyone's belief systems are different. Mine continue to change the older I get and the more I learn.

 

All of the advice, counceling and judgement in the world can't change how an individual feels or thinks inside. We seek help from others when those feelings and thoughts confuse us but no one likes to be judged.

 

I think some of us haven't gone out on that limb and told our "entire" stories or stated our complete feelings for fear of being judged. I say it's healthy to ponder different kinds of relationships. Ones that are out of the "norm" or not the neatly tied up "idea" of how society thinks people should live.

 

I ponder a lifelong affair w/ my MM because I know how difficult it would be for him to walk away from everything he's worked so hard for most of his adult life. The same goes for me. Yeah we stay for the kids...we stay for the house and the job. We sacrafice so that others can be happy. We stay out of obligation and yes even out of love for our spouses. After all we did marry these people and should love them in some way right? But we can't help how we feel about each other. We can't turn it off, there is no switch. Is it fair to deny ourselves and feel our own hurt so that we spare others from getting hurt?

 

My H is a wonderful man...he's a great father and a great provider, but he has no clue after 12 years how to pay a complement, be thoughtful and sweet or romantic. Regardless of how I ask, what I say or do. I can't change him. These things I get from my MM. MM's W is a great mother, homemaker and I'm sure many other things, but she also is critical, demanding, judgemental, selfish and rejects him on a daily basis. So from me he gets tenderness, unconditional love and someone who would never turn him away if he needs to talk, laugh, etc.

 

We love our spouses but they will never be all of the things we need them to be....yes we should have married each other but we were young and foolish and didn't speak up when the time came...we gave up and have felt the pain of that mistake all of these years. Now we do what "society" says is right and keep our families in tact. But don't we deserve the happiness we bring to each other even on a part time basis?

 

Sorry if this is a long rant...I hope this offers others an explination of why things just "happen". We are not bad people but we were put on this earth with feelings and longings...we conform to what society thinks we should do. Who's to truly say what is right or wrong? I say don't through stones because you never know when your house will turn to glass! and NEVER say never it could be you one of these days.

 

a2l, I completely agree with you that no one should say "it'll never happen to me" - whether that means being party to an affair or being the one cheated on. Life happens and circumstances change and people can be unpredictable. It's just not possible to control other people, nor is it healthy to want to. Ideally, if two people want to get married they'll try to keep in mind that the other person has certain needs, and - even if they're not always capable of meeting them every day - they'll still keep the lines of communication open enough so that both partners feel they can speak up when those needs aren't being met, and figure out how to work things out.

 

That's the ideal. Lots of times it doesn't work out that way, and one partner (or both) gets tired of being vaguely dissatisfied, or even acutely dissatisfied, and looks elsewhere for happiness.

 

And I understand that people have various reasons - kids, a stable family life, even some needs that are being met - for not wanting to rock the boat any further. And for considering that maybe, the route to happiness is to meet all your needs with two people, rather than one.

 

But the thing that troubles me about this discussion is that your H and his W don't sound happy to me. They sound like they don't know what to do about it; they haven't found the extra outlet that you two have now. Perhaps all they know is that their lives didn't turn out to be an ideal rosy dream of love, either. The question is, shouldn't they also be given the opportunity to adjust it? Yes, I know that many times people who start affairs feel they have given their partners that opportunity, but I'd argue that more often, they have not, in fact, laid it on the line. And while I understand that you have a right to happiness, and I don't begrudge you that, I also don't begrudge it to them.

 

It may well be that your H and his W will never acquire the self-awareness necessary to pull themselves out of the hole they're in - and they are both in one, whether they know it or not. They may both be difficult people, and, though salt of the earth as parents, no joy to live with as partners. And yet, my heart hurts for them, because they sound like they're stalled, and their respective spouses are making a choice to let them stay there, stuck in the mud. I do think that, in some cases, divorcing is a way to jump-start people. It can save them, by showing them that life hasn't effectively ended, but that it is still full of twists and turns - and sometimes, those turns are for the better.

 

I know that a stalled partner is frustrating, particularly when they don't seem to want to lift a finger to help themselves or improve a failing relationship. But I guess I think that whatever lingering feelings you still have for them should, at the very least, mean that you offer them the chance to acquire some self-awareness, and to go back to living their lives in an active, not passive way. In other words, offer them the opportunity to make choices about their own futures, rather than blindly going along until they just fade away.

 

It seems so very sad to me.

[addicted2love]

I do agree with much of what you have said. I don't want to hurt my H or his W, truly I don't. I can not turn off feelings for my MM...I've loved him since I was 16. If I knew how to let him go I would have done it years ago.

 

As far as marriage is concerned. My H and I are in MC. I've laid it all out for him on many occasions. He is the one who changed my view of marriage years ago. I used to feel strongly about the traditional values of what a M should be. That was until he decided that he needed to sleep with two other women (possibly 3 but I will never know for sure) and then beg my forgiveness only after getting caught. The good thing that came out of his infidelity was that I started living for me for the first time ever instead of giving all of my attention to building him up, career wise, self esteem, etc. Yes two wrongs don't make a right but I still don't get the love and affection I need from him.

 

As far as my MM. I can't speak for his R w/ his W. All I know is what he has told me. His W treats him like a work horse. He's there stricktly for stud service and to bring home the bacon. I do not know what steps they have taken to change what is lacking in their M. I don't ask. All I know is that we bring each other great joy and happiness. We've both admitted that we married the wrong people but there is little we can do about it now. Neither one of us want to tear our families apart at this point. Who know's there might come a time where we both get tired of the things that are lacking and come together for good.

 

In the mean time my heart won't let me give this man up. It's not fair to anyone in the situation...I realize this. But feeling sorry for my H and his W is hard for me to do. The way I see it...you can't treat people the way they've treated us and then expect them to be faithful and loving spouses just because that's the way it "should" be.

[yousaveme]

Hey girl.....

 

 

Don't waste your sweet little fingers on NF she has nothing better to do but be all up in every one's business... she sweetens her dirty sanchez's with a lil sugar so she can be all 'jesus-ish' in her responses...

 

she "just cares soooo much!!" *puke!*

[Guest]

I do agree with much of what you have said. I don't want to hurt my H or his W, truly I don't. I can not turn off feelings for my MM...I've loved him since I was 16. If I knew how to let him go I would have done it years ago.

 

As far as marriage is concerned. My H and I are in MC. I've laid it all out for him on many occasions. He is the one who changed my view of marriage years ago. I used to feel strongly about the traditional values of what a M should be. That was until he decided that he needed to sleep with two other women (possibly 3 but I will never know for sure) and then beg my forgiveness only after getting caught. The good thing that came out of his infidelity was that I started living for me for the first time ever instead of giving all of my attention to building him up, career wise, self esteem, etc. Yes two wrongs don't make a right but I still don't get the love and affection I need from him.

 

As far as my MM. I can't speak for his R w/ his W. All I know is what he has told me. His W treats him like a work horse. He's there stricktly for stud service and to bring home the bacon. I do not know what steps they have taken to change what is lacking in their M. I don't ask. All I know is that we bring each other great joy and happiness. We've both admitted that we married the wrong people but there is little we can do about it now. Neither one of us want to tear our families apart at this point. Who know's there might come a time where we both get tired of the things that are lacking and come together for good.

 

In the mean time my heart won't let me give this man up. It's not fair to anyone in the situation...I realize this. But feeling sorry for my H and his W is hard for me to do. The way I see it...you can't treat people the way they've treated us and then expect them to be faithful and loving spouses just because that's the way it "should" be.

 

I understand what you're saying, a2l, really I do. But you obviously still have some anger towards your husband (not that it isn't deserved), and your MM has anger towards his wife (saying she uses him as "stud service" is a fairly hostile statement - not that it's not deserved, either, because obviously I have no idea). So to me, there's nothing in what you've said that shows me why you won't end your respective marriages - aside from inertia, lingering memories of a person you once loved and trusted, and, possibly, a fear of the unknown.

 

There are other threads out there about whether it's beneficial to the kids or not to keep a dissolving family outwardly "intact," and I realize that's a decision every individual family has to make (but I also think that both partners should make the decision together, with full knowledge of what that entails). At any rate, I'm reading your posts and it seems to me that your situation is full of pain and only some snatched happiness, and that no one is truly satisfied with the way things are. So I hope you both will continue to reevaluate where you are, and not be content to just go along wishing things were otherwise, but try to improve your lives and the lives of those around you.

 

I guess that's my wish for you - and everyone on these boards - this holiday season: I hope we will all (including me!) have the courage to make compassionate, but strong, choices that are considerate of others' feelings as well as our own, and that ultimately will bring more clarity and compassion into the world.

 

I wish you all joy, I truly do.

[Marielle]

Hey, I guess we where all hiding, lol

 

I know I complain many times, I suffer and I think about NC...but the truth is I really love this man, would do anything for him, because I know he loves me like crazy. I never loved this way, it's like we are both the same person. If I go NC, I would only last 2 3 hours, lol

He can't live without me, he gets sick...the same for me. I know if I go NC most likely he would live W, but don t feel like going through all that yet, he has a baby, and I understand that.

 

This being said, you are certainly not alone! Kep posting we really need this to be a reall OW om forum...(not "proud to be", just sharing our experience)

This board lately seems to be only about OW /BS exchange of ideas, or NC'rs

 

Keep posting

[Marielle]

OK, after re reading the thread (bfore posting only read the 1st pge)I saw that the subject became entangled and some of "them " came in, as usual, lol...Obviously my prev. post is a pure answer to your post and 1st page replies...Just to clarify...

[lovernotafighter]

That's funny considering I'm not religious.

You can have morals without religion. You can believe that people matter not me me me.

 

What's a matter are you insulted I didn't jump on your pm come ons. Feeling rejected?

 

Your not trying to 'out' me on a public forum are you?

 

everyone who know me know I am gay and as immoral as they get...no shocker there sweetheart.

 

your a little dirty heart breaker aren't you...it turns me on..

 

pm me for spankings.