Aquarius Guy Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 My son is 29 and has been taking a while to get his college degree. H has been living at home, and I have bought him a nice Minivan. My son dropped out for Fall semester, and is slow in getting registered for the Spring Semester. My wife is in the nurturing mode, buying his groceries, and avoiding criticizing him. Theoretically I could take the car away from him, and kick him out of the house. Another dynamic is that my wife feels that it is my responsibility to enforce any picking up, or cleaning up that College Son should be doing around the house. The things that can be easily regulated, like her cooking his meals, or buying his desired groceries, is something that she is doing unconditionally. My son works part time, so taking the car would be counter productive. I hesitate to ask my College Son to limit his driving, or other strings, because that would be difficult to enforce. Perhaps I need to explain to College Son a system of Demerits and Extra Credit Coupons. In real life, bosses add up your good and bad points, and decide on your raise, your probation period, writing you up, and firing you. Mistakes on the job can be overlooked, or exagerated to create a write-up, or termination. I am feeling that I am losing repsect from my wife, in that my son is being careless in his cleaning up and picking up, around the house. Certainly perfection is not needed, but habits can be improved. I would like my son to ask, "How can I make you appear more valuable to Mom?" The other question, to my wife could be, "How can I change, or improve my habits, to make things better for your relations with Dad" I had previously asked my son for privacy time, such as staying at a hotel occasionally, if I needed a few days of privacy in the home with my wife, when there were issues to be resolved. My son had taken an oppositional attitude about that request, but had complied. Complying with my requests in a begrudging manner, is less than optimal for family harmony. Particularly since my wife is stuck in the nurturing parenting role. I am not sure that my son has any interst in assisting the improving of famliy dynamics. My wife is in the taking Role, and so is he. But he probably does not vaue the family, and believes he can make it on his own, or that the family will somehow continue to support him. Idea of questions for College Son, "Are there powers you want to hand over to me now, or do you want to pretend that your demerits are not building up? You want me to save it up, and have me bring it down all at once?"
tinktronik Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Your kidding , right? Your son is 29 , lives at home and your thinking about working out a demerit system for him to give him incentive to clean up or be responsible . He's a grown MAN , 29 years old . You need to have a man to man with him . He should not be procrastinating with school , or need to be told to pick up after himself . I think the merit demerit system is a bit late . Tell him that as a grown man he needs to take responsibility or move on . On second thought. Im 27 . I need a good supportive home with an incentive program . I'll clean up after your son and nag him to get enrolled in school , so when do I move in?
Author Aquarius Guy Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 Dear Tinktronic, You seem like a lovely person, and if I get divorced, I will certainly look you up. Thanks for your encouragement to take more assertive action.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 Furhter Ideas on Slower College Son: Furhter, College Son has a habit of badmouthing certain people. This is an emotional aspect of low self-esteem, because it is important to think through how to explain a conflict with an associate, in a non-put down manner, so that the differences can be explaine in a non-blaming approach. If College Son has a problem of being slow, or otherwise ADHD or whatever, then it is his responsibility to acknowledge any weaknesses, and make an effort to get extra help for whatever problems or deficiencies may exist. But College Son and his mother take the approach that they are perfectly normal, and any faults involved are my faults. I have no problem offering to make changes if something is in any way irritating or offending anyone. I don't claim perfection, only a wilingness to change. My College Son also likes to take the side of my wife, rather than being neutral. So Son is earning more demerits. But also, in supporting my wife, he is violating the problem admission rule. My wife likes to fully express her negative emotions, rather than process the negativity into a constructive requests or suggestions. My wife takes the position that she is normal, and any problems are my fault. So my son, in taking my wife's side, is in violation of the principle of being accomodating in a family setting, rather than claiming perfection.
My Fair Katie Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Your problem is your wife, not your son. Sure, he's being a big ol' baby at 29 (which to me is crazy as my 25 year old self and my 29 year old husband own our own home) but your wife is enabling it. NOTHING you do will have any impact unless your wife can recognize her behavior and how it negatively affects your son. Perhaps a therapist? After your wife is on board your son needs to step up as an adult in a shared household. He has a part time job, time to kick in some rent. Next, your house, YOUR rules. Doesn't matter if he's 29, he doesn't get to come and go as he pleases. If he uses the car he kicks in money for gas. He gets the car for his job and IF it is convenient for you. And inconvenient for you can be as simple as "eh, someone is blocking it in I don't want to deal with it." Honestly, why would your son move out and finish up his degree. He's got it made. Nice place to stay, free food, and he works part time for some spending cash. I'm sure it's a very nice set up for him. However, in the long run it is harmful to your son and your wife really needs to recognize the huge disservice it's doing to him.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted December 27, 2006 Author Posted December 27, 2006 Dear Katie, I agree that it would be nice if my wife could be supportive in my efforts to build comptency and responsiblity for our college son. My wife takes a passive-agressive approach, to the family, and opposes therapy. Your point that there are few incentives for our college son to develop more responsible habits is also close to reality. I am turning over the phrases in my mind for my next sit-down with my son. One aspect is that I am receiving demerits for his poor habits in the home. So when he leaves his stuff around the living room, instead of taking he personal items to his room, and my wife sees his clutter in the Living Room, then I get an unwritten demerit from my wife. I am looking for other strings to express the realities of teh consequences of deteriorating family structures. If he is going to give me so many demerits, then I would appreciate some unwrittten extra credit coupons. Such as news of the progress he is making towards getting a degree. My College Son likes to keep me and his mother in the dark. So two choices I see are that College son could move out, so that he will stop giving me so many demerits from my wife. OR, College son can start communicating about the steps he is making in getting ready for spring Semester classes. But also College Son is a responsible adult, and he is not asking how he can assist in improving family relations. College Son might be smart to take some interest in how his carelessnes is impacting the family dynamics.
lasan Posted December 28, 2006 Posted December 28, 2006 Not to rag on your son, but I work, go to school, and take care of my son. I am buying my first house soon. There are no grants, no welfare, no nothing in there aside of my own work. I am a couple years younger than your son. He sounds pretty sheltered to me. I can't even imagine living at home at the age of 29, even if I didn't have a child ( of course I was married for a while and my husband and I maintained our own home before he passed away.) Your son should be counting his blessings that he has such fabulous parents.
fluffy0 Posted January 2, 2007 Posted January 2, 2007 I definately agree with everyone that has posted. You've got to practice some tough love. You aren't doing your son any favors by letting mooch off you. As someone who is about to graduate college, i have several friends who are a few years older and have moved back home after getting a degree and not finding a job. It sets up a bad cycle: Their parents enable them to live comfortably so they don't have much motivation to find a job and basically don't do anything and feel really bad about themselves, which further prevents them from getting a job and then they have to crawl back to their parents for more money. For your own sanity and his, you've got to tell him thats he needs to get his life together. I would suggest giving him a timeline for getting a job, and then once he gets one maybe he can go to college part time. Trust me, as a college student, I've noticed that people who have to work do better in school because they have more structure. If he doesn't want to contintue with school, then thats fine, some people just weren't meant for college and there's no point in making him go if he has no motivation, but he can't just do nothing his whole life. I think maybe your son uses college as a crutch, because he knows that as long as he is a student you will continue to support him. As for your wife, tell her youw will do what you have to do, and if she doesn't agree then thats fine, but you won't support her decision to coddle and will quit giving her or him money for that will be used for your son's expenses. Also, you whole family should get some counseling if possible, because your wife and son have settled into some self-destructive habits and maybe if they hear it from a "proffesional" it'll motivate them to change. Just don't let your son make up any excuses for why he needs your continued monetary support. There are plenty of people out there with depression, injuries, and other problems, and they have to continue making a living somehow so your son is no different. I think the kindest thing you can do is make your son provide for himself because otherwise he'll never respect himself and no one else will respect him either. Just think about how he probably feels when he goes out with a woman and upon learning that he basically does nothing and depends on his parents like a child she never calls him back. Your son probably doesn't like this situation any more than you do, he just needs to be pushed hard to change himself.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted January 9, 2007 Author Posted January 9, 2007 Update: I had breakfast with my slow college son this morning. I mentioned that I was losing points with his mom by his sloppy habits. When my wife sees his stuff around, she gives him a mental demerit, and give s me a demerit for not correcgting our son. Further I lose Power Points, which is a source of Love and Marital Atrraction, by failing to control our son. I explained that the demerits can be offset by bonus points, which are news of how he is coming earning his college degree. I acknowledged that he would prefer to keep his privacy, but explained that I was going to be routinely asking him, "Any progress I can share with your Mom on your school?" I explained that the longer he cut into my retirement red zone years, the more he was going to have to come up with more bonus coupons of details on his progress in school.
a4a Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 Why don't you give him a bonus coupon with his first months rent for an apt. to be redeemed immediatley if not sooner. You are simply enabling this situation to continue. Time for the little birdie to leave the nest........ even if you have to fling his butt right out of that nest. Unreal 29...... you really are not doing him any favors by enabling this behavior.
crazy_grl Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 You're letting your 29 yr old son live at home and mooch off of you!! As somebody who's been cooking and cleaning for herself since before high school and moved out of my mom's house at 18, nothing has made me more glad that I didn't have parents who coddled me and let me mooch more than this story about your son. I'm 4 years younger than your son, graduated college almost 4 years ago, and have a full time engineering job with full benefits. Some people run their own companies at your son's age. There is no reason your son shouldn't be able to take care of himself... unless of course by "slow" you mean mentally handicapped. Then that's a whole other matter. No offense intended, but this talk of "bonus coupons", "mental demerits", "power points", etc. make it hard to take you seriously. If I were your son and you talked to me that way, I wouldn't take you seriously at all. I'd be trying to hold back the laughter and eye rolling. Really it sounds like something you'd learn from a lame self-improvement seminar. I'm not saying that to bash you, but to get across that maybe you need to be straight with your son and put out some REAL consequences for his poor behavior. Clearly, the mental demerits haven't been working. Just flat out tell him, "I'm not happy with your behavior. You need to clean up after yourself. If you don't, you're going to start paying rent. You need need to start making progress in school. If you don't, you have to move out." Before you talk to your son about this these, have a talk with your wife and discuss what will be the consequences if your son doesn't comply that way you're both on the same page when it comes to enforcing them.
a4a Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 crazy I agree........ but for cripes sake the MAN is 29 years old......... this is just silly to even consider him having consquences and parental rules. He needs to move out now..... no points, coupons, chats, or consquences. Just a U-Haul is needed.
crazy_grl Posted January 9, 2007 Posted January 9, 2007 He needs to move out now..... no points, coupons, chats, or consquences. My intial reaction was to say kick him out on his *ss, but as I read, it didn't seem like Aquarius Guy would be willing to do that. But you're right. Maybe I've underestimated him. I now ammend my advice to be kick him out on his *ss. And, Aquarius Guy, if you can't bring yourself to do it, at the very least do what I suggested above.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks for the encouragement for some tough talk. My son has rented a room some 5 miles down the road. He seems to be taking his time moving in there. I have agreed to pay the rent, for now. My main tough line is to ask my son more frequently if he has any news for me to pass on to his mother about his progress in College. I have some tapes and CD's and books on parenting adolescants, and I am making some progres in sharing the concepts with my wife. My son likes to give a resentful smirk when I try to work with my wife on parenting issues, saying HE IS AN ADULT. Today I asked him to agree to stop sandbagging my parenting coordination attempts with his mother. My son reluctantly agreed to stop slamming my porcess of getting my wife on board. I pointed out to our son today, that he is getting a lot of benefits from my wife and I, but that if either my wife or I walk out, the family splits, and my wife and I join other families, he will not be experiencing the same level of support. Things will most likely be more divided up, with my son have less attention/benefits. So far, my strings and levers seem to be having an effect, without major backlash.
a4a Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks for the encouragement for some tough talk. My son has rented a room some 5 miles down the road. He seems to be taking his time moving in there. I have agreed to pay the rent, for now. My main tough line is to ask my son more frequently if he has any news for me to pass on to his mother about his progress in College. I have some tapes and CD's and books on parenting adolescants, and I am making some progres in sharing the concepts with my wife. My son likes to give a resentful smirk when I try to work with my wife on parenting issues, saying HE IS AN ADULT. Today I asked him to agree to stop sandbagging my parenting coordination attempts with his mother. My son reluctantly agreed to stop slamming my porcess of getting my wife on board. I pointed out to our son today, that he is getting a lot of benefits from my wife and I, but that if either my wife or I walk out, the family splits, and my wife and I join other families, he will not be experiencing the same level of support. Things will most likely be more divided up, with my son have less attention/benefits. So far, my strings and levers seem to be having an effect, without major backlash. I cannot believe that you would allow your 29 yr old son run your life, dictate your finances, and allow him to make your own marriage so unstable. Get your butt to some counsel ASAP. This is something that should have been taken care of 20 years ago. You should not be paying his room rent..... he is 29 years old! I know a young man who is legally defined as being "retarded" that is paying his own rent, goes to school, works at the Wal-mart, and volunteers..... Dude you and your wife are so getting snowed...... but hey I need my mortgage paid so if you can find it in your heart send cash to me Your son has got you just where he wants you and will continue to suck you dry. You are paying his rent LMAO!!! At 29 he should have had his own home, his own savings, and paid for his own vehicle. If a child has to come and ask for help that is different......things do happen when they are in their early 20's....... this "man child" is nearly 30 years old. He should be asking you if you need anything at this point! He is playing you big time! Pack his crap up today..... put it in the drive way and have him pack it in the mini van you bought him and move on down the road to that free room you are also providing. Sheeesh.... get him out quick so I can move in and replace this parasite you call your son.
a4a Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 btw change the locks on your doors as well..... reclaim you home from him. He can call if he would like to visit or chat with you... most likely you will find him raiding your frig, and cleaning out your supplies if you do not change those locks. Time to grow up.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 Dear A4A, Thank you for the PARASITE concpet. Today I was able to get my wife to watch some parenting videos with me. My wife is very nurturing and only makes demands occasionally, when she loses her temper. But she has no follow through, nor support for my follow up. My wife has been resisting watching the videos that I have had for several months. I am trying to get my wife to come up with something more that only support and occasional spouting off. The concept of honor in also involved, as my son should have his pride to finish college and become self-supporting. Changing the locks is a simple process, can probably be done in 2 or 3 hours. I do have a major concept to present to my son about holding grudges, slamming people behind their backs, and designing assorted amends that could asuage his anger at certain people. I have a list of issues to bring up to my son for our next breakfast. While he is at home, he is a sitting target.
a4a Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 The more uncomfortable you make your home for him the more likely he is going to want to leave on his own. It seems that neither your wife nor your son aka the human parasite are considering your feelings at all. You need to clearly communicate your feelings to your wife.
crazy_grl Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 I'd like to echo everything a4a said and add that kicking him out and paying his rent is practically a reward for his aweful behavior. He gets a free ride and he doesn't have his parents on his back. Now he can be a complete loser but bring over girls and friends without actually looking like a loser. Sweet deal for him. Do not pay his rent!
Author Aquarius Guy Posted January 11, 2007 Author Posted January 11, 2007 Maybe his room-mates will help him to develop some better room-mate habits, like picking up his stuff, putting laundry away, and rinsing his dishes. Hopefully he will get enrolled in classes for Spring. I did give him a check his first months rent last night, and he slept at his new place last night. Son is moving some of his stuff out of his room. Right now he is going back and forth.
crazy_grl Posted January 11, 2007 Posted January 11, 2007 How old are his roommates? Are they male or female?
My Fair Katie Posted January 11, 2007 Posted January 11, 2007 Today I was able to get my wife to watch some parenting videos with me. My wife is very nurturing and only makes demands occasionally, when she loses her temper. But she has no follow through, nor support for my follow up. My wife has been resisting watching the videos that I have had for several months. I am trying to get my wife to come up with something more that only support and occasional spouting off. You *are* still a parent, but at 29 he doesn't need what you are probably finding in the parenting videos. He's mooching off of you, time to push the little birdie out of the nest. You won't do it through weird psychology of demerits and discussions on slamming people, or what not. He's an adult, if he wants to act like an @ss and slam people behind his backs it's really not for you to correct him. Just say, as an adult, that you don't tolerate that sort of thing in your house and if he wants to act like an immature brat and hold grudges then that's his perogative, but it's time to leave. I don't mean to be so harsh, but no wonder the guy won't act maturely. Your wife caters to him and you still treat him like a little kid that needs lectures about social demerits. He doesn't need lectures, he needs to be on his own. He'll figure out fast how well grudges and back stabbing goes.
littlekitty Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 Maybe his room-mates will help him to develop some better room-mate habits, like picking up his stuff, putting laundry away, and rinsing his dishes. Hopefully he will get enrolled in classes for Spring. I did give him a check his first months rent last night, and he slept at his new place last night. Son is moving some of his stuff out of his room. Right now he is going back and forth. Thank god you've finally moved forward with this. I know this isn't the first time you've posted about this son. When I the read the original post my heart just sank.... i thought for crying out loud, when are these parents going to finally put their foot down and do the right thing for their son?!! Don't support him fully in his new place, make sure he earns some of his own money himself.
littlekitty Posted January 12, 2007 Posted January 12, 2007 Geez... I just read the whole thread properly. My o my... I have some tapes and CD's and books on parenting adolescants, and I am making some progres in sharing the concepts with my wife. My son likes to give a resentful smirk when I try to work with my wife on parenting issues, saying HE IS AN ADULT. You contradict yourself here. You have books on parenting adolescants? WTF? He's no adolescant, he's a fricking adult!! Do not pay his rent for him. I bet he decided to move out yes? I bet it wasn't you and your wife that made him do it?! Am I right? If so, where are his consequences so far? He needs to get his own damn job and pay his own damn way. You and your wife are setting him to be a useless adult. Well, let's face it at 29 years old he already is a pretty useless adult isn't he? He's procrastinating about school and getting you two to support him. Man up.... if you do that, maybe your son will eventually follow.
Author Aquarius Guy Posted January 14, 2007 Author Posted January 14, 2007 Update: College Son Slept at his new room, Satruday Night, actually some 15 miles from the family house. Son came by this morning, (Sunday) and moved some more belongings. Wife seems to be anticipating having less mess in the kitchen and living room. When my son has been out of town for a few days or a week, my wife can graphically see that my roomate skills are a lot better than my son's. When my son and I are both in town, my wife is usually unable to be sure that some major part of the mess was not left by me. Maybe my son has been craftily disguising his dishes to look like mine, and when my wife approaches him about rinsing or washing his dishes, he probably gives her this inocent look, "What? not me!!" implying that it is not HIS mess. I believe that most of my son's roomates are men, about his age. I don't believe there are any women roomates. Maybe this opportunity just came up for my son, but I have also come up with some stronger logic for him to shape up or ship out. I have pointed out that I am receiving mental demerits from my wife for his leaving his stuff around, and not cleaning up. I have also pointed out that I am losing Husband power points for not being able to accomplish my manly duties of controlling my son. Further, that my wife likes to push her limits, and if his mother and I split up, we will probably join other families, and otherwise be less able to do things for him, so his support priorities will be slipping.
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