Why is a guy "less of a man" for accepting money from a female?

[lindya]

Good post... and what I realy wanted to say was "i love your signature" :lmao: ...

 

 

I wouldn't say I was paranoid maybe, but I worry a lot about how others perceive me. I would have gotten offended if a salesman assumed my boyfriend was purchasing the car and not me and I would have walked out of there and have to go through the trouble of going somewhere else.

 

Have you questioned yourself about why that would offend you? We can talk about sexist assumptions and how they annoy us...but it sounds as if there might be something more to this than simply annoyance about other people's belief systems clashing with yours.

 

Let's say you went into a showroom and the salesman did make that assumption (ie that it was your bf and not you who was buying the car). What messages about yourself would you take from that action - if any? Challenging other people's assumptions is easy, but the tricky bit is to figure out what our own inferences and assumptions are...and what impact they might be having on our lives.

[justagirliegirl]

I don't think there is anything wrong at all with your situation as long as you two are happy that is what matters.

 

As for what other people think, there will always be someone looking down on you no matter who you are or what you do. You just learn to ignore. They don't live your life.

 

Traditions die hard.Things are changing but not nearly as much as it should.

 

I think lots of people assume traditional roles when they become married and hav kids even though they were more open as single people.

 

I make heaps more than my bf and neither one of us I'm a lot older than he is but I don't like to feel that I am in control as I'm not. As modern as we are, we do tend to behave traditionally around the home. He is my protector and I like that.

 

He never asks me for anything nor would he ever accept a dime from me but that is his choice. If I buy him something, he will accept the gift.

 

No, I certainly don't look down on him or disrespect him in any way for not making as much as I do. I think it will all balance out as the years go by. When I retire, he'll still be working and will have the change to take care of me.

 

He knows that I love him for him and not because of money or power or anything like that. He knows I love him for him.

[cutegirl]

 

 

 

Have you questioned yourself about why that would offend you? We can talk about sexist assumptions and how they annoy us...but it sounds as if there's something more to this than simply annoyance about other people's belief systems clashing with yours.

 

Let's say you went into a showroom and the salesman did make that assumption (ie that it was your bf and not you who was buying the car). What messages about yourself would you take from that action? Challenging other people's assumptions is easy, but the tricky bit is to figure out what our own inferences adn assumptions are...and what impact they might be having on our lives.

 

I don't really know to be honest... I think what would go through my mind is that I'm a customer who is about to spend a large amount of money and I would want to be treated as such, with respect. I would feel like someone like that wouldn't deserve my business.

 

I would wonder why they would assume that my bf was buying the car and not me and conclude that it's probably because he's a guy.

 

I don't really know what I infer about myself from that. I guess you could say I want acknowledgement at least for being there and buying something. I do kind of like to be a bit of a show off I guess sometimes to be honest, maybe I want attention? Prestige? Power? lol

 

I would just think it's bad salesmanship on his behalf if he had done that. It would probably make me feel invisible. Of course I want people to know I can afford something if I'm planning to purchase it, or else they won't take me seriously and not give me good service. I don't really know why things like that make me angry but it really does make me angry a lot.

[justagirliegirl]

I don't really know to be honest... I think what would go through my mind is that I'm a customer who is about to spend a large amount of money and I would want to be treated as such, with respect. I would feel like someone like that wouldn't deserve my business.

 

I would wonder why they would assume that my bf was buying the car and not me and conclude that it's probably because he's a guy.

 

I don't really know what I infer about myself from that. I guess you could say I want acknowledgement at least for being there and buying something. I do kind of like to be a bit of a show off I guess sometimes to be honest, maybe I want attention? Prestige? Power? lol

 

I would just think it's bad salesmanship on his behalf if he had done that. It would probably make me feel invisible. Of course I want people to know I can afford something if I'm planning to purchase it, or else they won't take me seriously and not give me good service. I don't really know why things like that make me angry but it really does make me angry a lot.

 

That kind of things happens to me whether or not I am with a man. There's a certain computer store where the salespeople talk to the women customers as a last resort. They always talk to the men and talk to them first. It's insulting and I never buy anything there either.

[wakeup]

there are many cases where the female makes a lot more than the male and there's nothing wrong with that and like you said it's becoming more common. these days it's expected that both the man and woman contribute financially. I don't think it matters who contributes more, it doesn't make the man any less of a man if the woman contibutes more, as long as they are both contributing.

 

you say that he has a job and is making money, so that's good, at least he is trying. if it is a healthy relationship and the money issue is not a problem and you're reaching all your goals then be happy and don't worry about it. but if he is totally leeching off of you and taking advantage of you all the time then that's the real problem and that's why it's bad, not because he's a guy. if it was a girl leeching off the guy I would think it's just as bad. but you are right, men seem to be held to a higher standard and people may think it's worse if it's a guy but I don't agree.

 

I think when you hear people say things like "he's not a real man" they are just expressing their frustration that he is lazy and unmotivated and using the girl. but you do have a good point, because if it was a leeching woman people wouldn't say "she's not a real woman." they'd just say "she's a leech."

 

one thing to worry about if you are contributing more and "semi-supporting" him is that you may feel like you are the boss and should always get your way. the money issue may create resentment which leads you to mistreating him and verbally abusing him, and then you feel bad for that and he makes you feel guilty and you end up giving him more money to make up for it. then later you get mad about money again and it never ends. or he starts learning to manipulate you by withholding in certain ways (not necessarily sexually, perhaps emotionally, or just threatening to leave) unless you give him money, and then he just ends up sucking a lot of money out of you.

 

in that case he is not a real man, or a real person I should say. you take pride in being the breadwinner and being the boss, but I think that really comes from insecurity, because you fear a successful man would leave you because he doesn't need your money. despite you thinking you're the boss, from your past posts it sounds like your boyfriend has all the power in the relationship. at least you make enough money for it not to be much of an issue I guess.

[cutegirl]

That kind of things happens to me whether or not I am with a man. There's a certain computer store where the salespeople talk to the women customers as a last resort. They always talk to the men and talk to them first. It's insulting and I never buy anything there either.

 

Yeah, this also happened to me once at BestBuy! I was buying pc speakers and the salesman talked to my bf but not to me, I was like wtf?? And my bf claimed that the guy was being respectful to him by talking to him instead of me. My boyfriend thought maybe the salesman thought my boyfriend would think he was hitting on me if he spoke with me.

 

Either way I agree with you, it's insulting, I just walked out of there. My bf had no money on him that day either, I was buying the speakers.

 

I researched more about this on-line and I read that people have actually done studies where they sent males and females to the same salesperson and women usually always get quoted a higher price or ignored... etc

[Curmudgeon]

And I have to stress again, that I don't believe in traditional gender roles AT ALL, with the man being the provider and all.

 

Under those circumstances the entire "arguement" becomes rather moot, doesn't it? You have your deep-seeded beliefs and others have theirs which don't necessarily agree with yours. It can't be argued.

 

As for me, I think men are genetically predisposed to assume the protector role, whether it's necessary or not. That's been man's primary role since the dawn of time. It just comes naturally to most of us and those of us that it does look askance at those willing to settle for a dependent's role.

 

When I divorced some years ago and, later, decided to become social again I purposely looked for a woman who was my educational, professional, intellectual and spiritual equal. I personally did not want another passive dependent. However, that doesn't make me any less protective or any more willing to rely upon her. It's a simple matter of choice. Metrosexuals vs Retrosexuals! Men vs Boys!

[cutegirl]

Under those circumstances the entire "arguement" becomes rather moot, doesn't it? You have your deep-seeded beliefs and others have theirs which don't necessarily agree with yours. It can't be argued.

 

As for me, I think men are genetically predisposed to assume the protector role, whether it's necessary or not. That's been man's primary role since the dawn of time. It just comes naturally to most of us and those of us that it does look askance at those willing to settle for a dependent's role.

 

When I divorced some years ago and, later, decided to become social again I purposely looked for a woman who was my educational, professional, intellectual and spiritual equal. I personally did not want another passive dependent. However, that doesn't make me any less protective or any more willing to rely upon her. It's a simple matter of choice. Metrosexuals vs Retrosexuals!

 

Yes, that is true about my deep seated beliefs. I just find it offensive to be "protected". Who knows, maybe I could even be a threat or dangerous myself! Maybe other people need to be protected from ME!

 

Just because I'm female doesn't mean I want to be protected. I just find it so insulting. It's like inferring that I'm somehow weaker, which I am physically but physical strength is not as important in today's society as in the past. Yea, during the caveman days man had to be strong to kill buffalos for us to eat and whatnot but today's world is not like that.

 

It's more about economic power now and that's all about making money! I like the fact that I earn a lot more than the average male in this country. I like the fact that I don't need a man to take care of me.

 

I just find the concept of having to be take care of by a man not very appealing. I don't even like the thought of it

[Craig]

I guess that some people's attitudes have not caught up with the changes brought about by the women's equality movements.

 

But I don't have any respect for anyone of any gender who only wants to take, take, take without giving something in return.

 

Fascinating isn't it how a man can employ a covey of women in a business and be considered a real man all the while deriving his income from the work of women. But take a man, who in consultation and agreement with his partner stays at home and looks after the house and kids while the woman goes to work and somehow he is less of a man.

 

I believe that each of us is held to different standards based upon many factors other than gender.

[cutegirl]

I guess that some people's attitudes have not caught up with the changes brought about by the women's equality movements.

 

But I don't have any respect for anyone of any gender who only wants to take, take, take without giving something in return.

 

Fascinating isn't it how a man can employ a covey of women in a business and be considered a real man all the while deriving his income from the work of women. But take a man, who in consultation and agreement with his partner stays at home and looks after the house and kids while the woman goes to work and somehow he is less of a man.

 

I believe that each of us is held to different standards based upon many factors other than gender.

 

You are absolutely right. I don't find anything wrong with a man having a business deriving his income from the work of women though. Business is business. If I had employees I could care less if their man or women or martians, as long as they do a good job!

 

I see what you're saying using that as an analogy though comparing that to a man staying home and doing the housework. I don't think that would make him less of a man at all but apparently lots of people do.

[Curmudgeon]

I didn't say anything about "having" to be taken care of. I wouldn't have someone who needed that. However, it's nice to take care of someone I care about in the small and meaningful ways that show just how much I care and how I value them. It's all about enhancing one another, capitalizing on one another's individual strengths and romancing one another daily by being caring, considerate and attentive.

[ilmw]

Yes, that is true about my deep seated beliefs. I just find it offensive to be "protected". Who knows, maybe I could even be a threat or dangerous myself! Maybe other people need to be protected from ME!

 

Just because I'm female doesn't mean I want to be protected. I just find it so insulting. It's like inferring that I'm somehow weaker, which I am physically but physical strength is not as important in today's society as in the past. Yea, during the caveman days man had to be strong to kill buffalos for us to eat and whatnot but today's world is not like that.

 

 

This got me thinking..

 

Let me give you an example of mens (dispostion to protect) In my field I have worked with woman who are my equal... .. and I respect them very much... but any time a situation came about that there was possible danger... the "boys" would circle around the woman....protection...

 

I have found myself in several situations... where I have taken a step infront of a female co-worker.... when someone got a little cooky.... This is not to say she could not take care of herself... it was/is a natural reaction... (trust me... I know females who can kick some arse) :lmao:

 

This in no way should devalue a womans self worth... because it is not malicious.

[Pyro]

No, I didn't say that. I am saying I've read people on this forum say that and I'm questioning why that is. I have no problem buying high ticket items for my boyfriend.

 

Okey doke.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

[Woggle]

I don't feel any need to take care of a woman and I am glad my wife is financially independent but I would never want here to take care of me. To me a man does not leech off of others. If a man is a stay at home dad that is different because he is contributing something but for him to just a have a woman take care of him is not good nor is it any good for a woman to be a leech. I just don't like the feeling of having to depend on others. I was dependent on ths state once and I hated so I would not want to be dependent on a woman because of the relationship goes south she can use that against me. As far gifts I don't mind that because that is just doing something nice for each other.

[Curmudgeon]

This in no way should devalue a womans self worth... because it is not malicious.

 

No it's not malicious. It's genetic and it's also the way many of us were raised.

 

Women are, of course, capable of opening their own doors, seating themselves at a table without assistance and picking up things they're dropped. However, some of us were raised to be gentlemen and we still accord women those courtesies. It's actually part of what endeared me to my wife who is a very independent and capable woman.

 

Only once in my 60 years of being courteous has any woman seemed to take unbrage. It was a dozen years ago and I held open a door for a woman of about

mid-30s. Rather than a smile or a polite "Thank you!" she very haughtily informed me that she was perfectly capable of opening her own door and I didn't have to do so just because she was a woman.

 

My response, said ever so calmly and kindly was, "Madame, I did not hold the door in deference to your gender. I held it in deference to your age!" I then smiled and went on my way leaving her fuming.

[Curmudgeon]

I guess that some people's attitudes have not caught up with the changes brought about by the women's equality movements.

 

Maybe some people's attitude is that if the considerate aspects of it aren't broken, don't try to fix them Another attitude could also be there's a reason the genders are different and that's to be celebrated, not merged with the lines blurred.

 

Men should be men and women should be women and neither should be subservient to or considered lesser than the other but the delightful differences are predisposed, natural and half the fun.

[SurpriseSurprise]

CuteGirl in some way’s you remind me of my wife. When she was dating she dated men at her career level and found it to be a competition not being equal. She would say they would end up butting horns on little things and in the end it was not a relationship. I used to try and pay on dates but it was hard on my salary. She soon started making plans that I could not afford so she would pay. Early in our relation ship she would tell me that it was more important that we had a balanced relationship then be financial equals. She liked that I could join her on a business trip or take off with little warning. My job was not demanding in that way.

It has been hard for me since we have changed into non-traditional roles. I used to feel like a bum having her pay so I would try and make up by taking on other responsibilities. When we moved in together I had more free time so I would do the shopping, cooking and cleaning. As our roles changed we had people make comments. She did not mind being seen as a determined, detail oriented modern career woman and breadwinner. She did mind being thought of as a controlling b!itch. I think she dresses feminine just so people see her as a woman. To answer your question as for feeling like a man is changing many definitions. When it comes to money she runs the show my pay goes into our joint checking account. It is not enough to pay for half our expenses. I have a debt card (I went bankrupt so I can’t get a credit card) she puts enough money to take care of household expenses plus entertainment. This works since I make the plans and can even pay in public. She like that I take charge of the plans and she can relax. I would go back and forth about feeling like bum and looking submissive. When I took her name in marriage peoples only saw me as submissive even if I behave in a mescaline. I know of men that are more submissive to there wife’s but maintain a traditional roles. I wanted to make a statement of being proud of my wife’s accomplishments and show how much I support her and her goals. I figured this was a more out in front way of approaching her being the breadwinner and my probably being the househusband. This way we had to learn how to feel comfortable with our roles in general not trying to make some adaptation or excuse about how we are dividing everything equally when she makes most of the money. I think we are equals but we do different work and compensations. We have found a way to make this balance out. But I tell you it is challenging as the holidays we receive our cards Ms.& Mr. Margaret her name and her friends introduce us that way at parties. This means we will be talking about our non traditional roles. This has been an exploration but as I go over it more I start settling into my role.

[iceblued]

if a women in her own mind thinks her man is less of a man for asking for expensive gifts, then that women is either selfish or at least cant expect the man to buy her expensive things. works both ways. if a women does buy her man expensive presents, i think its a sign or a mature understanding person. aint nuthing worse then a un-understandig or selfish partner.

[Rooster_DAR]

My boyfriend is "dependent" on me. I respect him. If I wanted a man who was wealthy I surely would not be with my boyfriend. I CHOSE to be with him.

 

I purposely avoid dating men who are "rich" or "wealthy", simply because I have my own, and have no need for a man who thinks he can "control" me because he has money.

 

Men always complain that a lot of women are gold diggers. So why do they make suck a big deal when a female WILLING pays for her boyfriend, buys him gifts and/or supports him, and then say things like he's not a "real man" for accepting the gifts/money? Seems rather hypocritical to me.

 

I don't feel like I'm less than a man if a woman wants to buy me expensive things, I say go for it. I would only feel less than a man if I could not contribute at least something to the relationship though. You sound at least like someone who has her head screwed on straight, you are few and far between.

 

I also think this has quite a bit to do with balance, it either person is tilted to far to one side, then things start to fall apart. For instance, you wind up being the one that's doing everything such as maintaining the house, cars, and everything in between. This will get old after a while and cause tension to surface. If he starts putting effort in without any return, then tension again will arise.

 

Cheers!

[Trialbyfire]

Gifts are just that and should not be asked for...

 

Relationships should be 50/50 but not necessarily with the same things. If one person makes more but the other person provides in some other way, it's still equal.

 

I used to believe that I didn't care if a guy couldn't support me. Get taken once and you will change your mind. I now believe that a guy must be capable of supporting me so there's no gold-digging possibilities. That I make enough to take care of both of us comfortably no longer means that I will.

[Rooster_DAR]

Gifts are just that and should not be asked for...

 

Relationships should be 50/50 but not necessarily with the same things. If one person makes more but the other person provides in some other way, it's still equal.

 

I used to believe that I didn't care if a guy couldn't support me. Get taken once and you will change your mind. I now believe that a guy must be capable of supporting me so there's no gold-digging possibilities. That I make enough to take care of both of us comfortably no longer means that I will.

 

I agree here as well. Granted one person may go through something bad such as unemployment or depression, and there may be periods where the other person has to step up to the plate. I think people know when someone is not contributing, unless you are blinded by infatuation that is.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree here as well. Granted one person may go through something bad such as unemployment or depression, and there may be periods where the other person has to step up to the plate. I think people know when someone is not contributing, unless you are blinded by infatuation that is.

Yes, those are circumstances beyond the control of anyone. It's part of a good relationship where you're willing to support each other through bad times, although the expectation is that the party who is down will make all efforts to climb back on their feet.

[alphamale]

It's actually part of what endeared me to my wife who is a very independent and capable woman.

if she's so "independent" then why is she married? why isn't she living the good single life and scaling Mt. Everest? She's about as "independent" as my left foot is.

[Pyro]

if she's so "independent" then why is she married? why isn't she living the good single life and scaling Mt. Everest? She's about as "independent" as my left foot is.

 

Independent people still desire love and companionship. Independent meaning they don't have to rely on having a relationship to be happy.

[Curmudgeon]

if she's so "independent" then why is she married? why isn't she living the good single life and scaling Mt. Everest? She's about as "independent" as my left foot is.

 

Don't look now but your left foot is in your mouth and you'd do better only opening it occasionally to change feet.

 

My wife spent 18 years alone and uninvolved following a divorce and stayed that way until I came into her life. She didn't "need" me but she wanted to be with me, perhaps because I didn't "need" her either but wanted to be with her.

 

We've both found that living the good life is a lot more fun when done in tandem, sharing the experiences and enhancing one another.

 

Instead of scaling Mt. Everest she gets to scale me!

 

If the single life is so good and scintilating why are you spending so much of it here?