ilmw Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 yea well ILMW in the past more parents were there for their kids but now a days more parents let things slide... So I take it that you agree?
Author JamesM Posted December 21, 2006 Author Posted December 21, 2006 What I forgot to mention is that there is also an age where a child is too young to be spanked. I think most psychologists say under two. When they are that young, they cannot associate the spanking to the act. Spanking may be an effective tool, but it should only be used for a small window of life. The lack of its use in later years is not the reason for delinquents. It is the lack of boundaries. For instance, when a child has a curfew, and the parent doesn't stick to it, then the child feels that there are no secure boundaries. All children need fences. Rules enforce the idea that parents love their children. Teens that have no rules tend to become delinquents and not become responsible adults. This is a separate issue from spanking. Remember, spanking is one tool, not the only tool.
Moose Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 There's a difference. In my mind, spanking is a clear punishment AFTER the child understands why it's being delivered. Hitting, in my mind, is done out of anger, with no reason or rhyme to it.
Trialbyfire Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 What I forgot to mention is that there is also an age where a child is too young to be spanked. I think most psychologists say under two. When they are that young, they cannot associate the spanking to the act. Spanking may be an effective tool, but it should only be used for a small window of life. The lack of its use in later years is not the reason for delinquents. It is the lack of boundaries. For instance, when a child has a curfew, and the parent doesn't stick to it, then the child feels that there are no secure boundaries. All children need fences. Rules enforce the idea that parents love their children. Teens that have no rules tend to become delinquents and not become responsible adults. This is a separate issue from spanking. Remember, spanking is one tool, not the only tool. Exactly and not the most effective tool. As a high-energy female, I can't imagine myself sitting still as a youngun' either. Even now, when I'm at the computer, I'm not only on this site but doing three other things and always shifting my body, legs and feet around. I just don't perfectly sit still very often.
Author JamesM Posted December 21, 2006 Author Posted December 21, 2006 Exactly and not the most effective tool. As a high-energy female, I can't imagine myself sitting still as a youngun' either. Even now, when I'm at the computer, I'm not only on this site but doing three other things and always shifting my body, legs and feet around. I just don't perfectly sit still very often. Actually, on many occasions it has been a very effective tool. And this was my very energetic five year old. Sometimes that was the only way I could get his attention. Talking quietly didn't register, talking loudly didn't seem to phase him, and yelling works but makes ME angrier....so a swat to his behind has gotten his attention..."Dad really means it." SO, I disagree. As a parent of four boys, I find it works well. If I had all sweet and quiet girls, it may not work as well...or be needed.
Trialbyfire Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Actually, on many occasions it has been a very effective tool. And this was my very energetic five year old. Sometimes that was the only way I could get his attention. Talking quietly didn't register, talking loudly didn't seem to phase him, and yelling works but makes ME angrier....so a swat to his behind has gotten his attention..."Dad really means it." SO, I disagree. As a parent of four boys, I find it works well. If I had all sweet and quiet girls, it may not work as well...or be needed. Then we will disagree. There are many tones of voice. I was at a friend's place where there was a huge Birthday party for the kids. There were around 20 kids, mostly boys, all around the age of 9 - 11. It was time to get them going for the meal so I got elected (suckered) to herd them all upstairs. Imagine a small female who normally speaks fairly softly but is assertive. I go down to the rec room and the noise level is incredible. I start with the Birthday boy and a number of kids surrounding him. They did the nod of acknowledgement and basically ignored me. So...I raised my voice to sergeant-major level with that type of ascerbic tone and told everyone to "GO, GO, GO, COME ON BOYS, GET GOING NOW", while clapping my hands to emphasize each word. In less than a minute, the rec room was clear. The boys literally flew up the stairs.
IpAncA Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I used to get the hand and the belt. I also used to get my hands smacked when I was little too. It didn't make me hate my parents or anything but if I screwed up then I knew was as coming. Sometimes he would tell us where were going to get it but he would give a time and stick to it. That was the worst but I turned out ok but I do think that some people do take it to far. I still have a great relationship with my parents and so does my brother so I guess it just depends on how parents go doing it. Now if they took it to far and always beat me with it then yeah I would have a problem with it and it probably would have affected me.
bonehead Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 My children were very seldom spanked. amazing how well a talking to with them in the front leaning rest position works. Course now they can both do push ups all day long and oldest is twice my size.
bab Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I agree that spanking can be a tool that is used in conjunction with two others. First, an explination of what they did wrong and why they are receiving the spanking. Then the spanking. And MOST importantly the reconciliation and reaffirmation that you love your children, just not that particular action. And of course NEVER in anger. I was spanked as a child and let me tell you, I don't have any physical or emotional scars. I was also yelled at to get my attention. There I have many many emotional scars. As long as it is done correctly spanking is WAY better for a child than having to yell at them.
JadeStar Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I was spanked as a child not often but once in awhile. We spank our kids, not often but once in awhile, because for us its something we use as a last resort, and they would have to have done something pretty extreme to get one anyway. I think alot of times its all in how its done by the parent or how something is said. For example, I have never spanked my kids out of anger, if I did, I would probably be in trouble. They know how to push that button sometimes, so if I feel I'm mad, I walk away gain some kind of composer and then proceed. Some parents, when angry and spank, to me, anger clouds their judegement therefore it can sometime cross the line from spanking to maybe borderline abuse, not all but some. We also always explain to our kids why they are being spanked or why they are grounded etc. I also think parents who are angry or hateful to their kids in their words to them, breaks the childs spirit. Maybe they feel by yelling or screaming at them is the only way they can get their kids attention, maybe they use that tactic because it was done to them, I dunno. I think it says alot to a child how you talk to them and how you go about the punishment. As far as making a child violent or having issues from spanking, I think its more along the lines if that were to happen later on in their life, it stems from whatever is going on in the household to begin with, if the child has to deal with lots of drama, or other things, I doubt its from the spankings itself, but more along the lines of other factors that are aplying a role in the home. JMO. Jade
coco_milkshake Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I dont believe in spanking at all. However that does not mean that if my child did wrong that I would let them get away with it. My cousin uses the "naughty step" with his sons where they have to sit there for a period of time to think about what they have done. I believe in communication and I plan to use my cousin's method when I have children.
a4a Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 ok why does non physical harm spanking work? (without leaving bruises, marks) Is it the minor physical discomfort that does it? The child feeling emotional discomfort? Do some children respond better to pure emotional discomfort vs those that may respond to physical discomfort? I personally think it is the emotional discomfort induced by the physical that causes the response........ I think spankings can be skipped in the majority of cases if you have good parenting skills with a open channel of communication with the child. My opinion of course. Also curious...... parents do give mixed messages, and example is: "Don't hit your sister or I will hit you". Is that not a confusing message to the child..... states hitting is appropriate?
blind_otter Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 Do some children respond better to pure emotional discomfort vs those that may respond to physical discomfort? I personally think it is the emotional discomfort induced by the physical that causes the response........ I think it's the humiliation involved, more than anything else. OP - My parents never spanked in anger, ironically. But I did get the sh*t beat out of me with a sawed off broomstick. IME abusive parents don't spank. They slap, punch, kick, and use tools like sticks and bats to hit their children. Also there's a big difference between abuse and spanking because with abuse, you never know WTF you're going to get beat up for. It could be a clumsy mistake like spilling a drink or accidentally ripping your clothes, or it could be for a more serious offense. If you explain WHY you're spanking, it's not really abusive behavior. IMO, of course.
alphamale Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 OP - My parents never spanked in anger, ironically. But I did get the sh*t beat out of me with a sawed off broomstick. IME abusive parents don't spank. They slap, punch, kick, and use tools like sticks and bats to hit their children. when we were young my dad would come after us with his shoe and hit our bottoms pretty hard. when we were pre-pubescent we would get the hand upside the ear area. after my hormones kicked in I was physically bigger than dad & mom so they couldn't do anything
a4a Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I think it's the humiliation involved, more than anything else. . I so agree with this. It is the emotional tie to the spanking that does the trick....... if it is a "appropriate spanking" not a beating. Beatings are not the answer. But then again look at how well adjusted Alpha is and he had many spankings growing up........ :p
blind_otter Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I remember calling upon my "squirrel powers" to avoid getting beat up. I would be running all over the place, over and under furniture. Hiding inside the dryer was a good trick. Once my sister climbed a tree and wouldn't get down until my Dad came home and my mother spent the afternoon pacing under the tree brandishing a stick at my sister. In retrospect, it was funny.
bonehead Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I remember calling upon my "squirrel powers" to avoid getting beat up. I would be running all over the place, over and under furniture. Hiding inside the dryer was a good trick. Once my sister climbed a tree and wouldn't get down until my Dad came home and my mother spent the afternoon pacing under the tree brandishing a stick at my sister. In retrospect, it was funny. My mom FOLLOWED me up the tree.
Author JamesM Posted December 21, 2006 Author Posted December 21, 2006 If spankings are used as a punishment frequently, then they are no longer effective IMHO. It is the shock value and yes, humiliation that catches the attention. Trialby fire, Yes, a loud voice is effective in herding the gang. I have said many times to my sister (who has four girls...me four boys, you figure) that she can talk to them in a quiet voice. Me...I need to act like the "drill sergeant." My voice needs to be heard over the din. So yes, the loud voice works alot, too.
JadeStar Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 If spankings are used as a punishment frequently, then they are no longer effective IMHO. It is the shock value and yes, humiliation that catches the attention. Trialby fire, Yes, a loud voice is effective in herding the gang. I have said many times to my sister (who has four girls...me four boys, you figure) that she can talk to them in a quiet voice. Me...I need to act like the "drill sergeant." My voice needs to be heard over the din. So yes, the loud voice works alot, too. I agree, but as I said in my earlier post, I think its all in how things are said. I'm not saying you can't be loud, if you need to be loud to feel like you are being heard or to get their attention fine, but being hateful is a totally different thing in my book. Loud but firm to get your point across, fine, down right hateful is another.
bab Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 The problem with being loud, is that if you are loud often enough the kids stop listening to you unless you are loud. Then, you've got to start yelling. And yelling makes you angry and can damage your kids psychi. Of course there are times when a loud voice is needed, but using it to often can be just as dangerous as overusing spankings. (Read spankings NOT beatings, there is a HUGE difference)
samsungxoxo Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 And look at how you turn out to be Alphamale, so much so being a productive person, LOL :p . This just makes me wonder, how about when one of the parents (esp. the father but mothers can do so also) uses a threatening message about what he would do if the child who's already 12 or older talks back such as like "Oh don't let me hear you talk back your mom/dad else I'll belted you" or "Boy if you talked back to me I'll beat the living heck out of you, I'll break your face". Yet the father stopped spanking as soon as the child was 6 or 7, but did use that message when the kid was in his/her early teenage years, now isn't that EMOTIONAL ABUSE EVEN if the parent only use that line once in a while.
ilmw Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 And look at how you turn out to be Alphamale, so much so being a productive person, LOL :p . This just makes me wonder, how about when one of the parents (esp. the father but mothers can do so also) uses a threatening message about what he would do if the child who's already 12 or older talks back such as like "Oh don't let me hear you talk back your mom/dad else I'll belted you" or "Boy if you talked back to me I'll beat the living heck out of you, I'll break your face". Yet the father stopped spanking as soon as the child was 6 or 7, but did use that message when the kid was in his/her early teenage years, now isn't that EMOTIONAL ABUSE EVEN if the parent only use that line once in a while. Well.... what you are discribing is in many places actual Threating Bodily Harm.. It is not just emotional abuse... In Canada... it is against the law... and you could be charged accordingly...(anyone) Although you can use corporal punishment as a parent....as a means to discipline a child.. (a child)
samsungxoxo Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 Well see in all the encounters I recalled, this "fear strategy" was use in about 4 occasions on my early teenager years (it stopped when I was 15). I didn't really do anything to correct my behavior either. I feel there was no need for that, if he wanted to make a point, he should have talked (like he did once, I understood once on that one occassion when he told me about some sad stories of what happened when you treat your parents like garbage) but then when we were watching some talk shows about teenagers, he reverted back to that techiniques and that's well it kinda mess me up as a result. What was the result: Nothing really, I still would talked back to both of them at times, more to my mother and well did answered back to my mother once (actually recently, with the clothes). It has NOT resolved the yelling, instead I find myself yelling more.
Plungebob Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 I think that corporal punishment is always a wrong choice to use on a child. It sends the unintended message to a very impressionable mind that physical pain is an acceptable solution for wrongdoing. We wouldn't hit an adult; how can it be any less inappropriate to intentionally hurt a child that we love? Many have been successfully raised by parents who never found the need to yell at or hit them. In my opinion, spanking should happen only between consenting adults.
ilmw Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 Not trying to piss anyone of here... but to all who have posted .. how many actually have kids...? Just curious if your opinions are based on your own parenting experience... or just what you believe?..
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