Author insomnie Posted December 16, 2006 Author Posted December 16, 2006 I'm a complete insomiac sometimes too. Thus the handle. And I go to UVA - University of Virginia. You?
Vertex Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 UVA is awesome Echols? I attend the Wharton School and the College of Arts and Sciences at UPenn. Still. Can't. Freakinggg sleep.
Author insomnie Posted December 16, 2006 Author Posted December 16, 2006 Nope, I was kind of a ****up in high school. I'm a regular math and eco double-major.
Guest Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Not to interrupt this LS story in the making (how cute you two ) but I just wanted to address this: No offense but you sound very arrogant. Maybe it's not your intelligence that's a turn-off to these men afterall. Maybe you should try to be grateful for the gift you've been given...your brain...rather than be boastful about it. If I were with someone who constantly tried to make me feel as if I were an idiot, I'd want to leave ASAP. That to me just sounds so mentally exhausting rather than stimulating. Why is it that anybody who mentions they're intelligent is immediately assumed to be 'arrogant' and to be a person who 'tries to make people feel like idiots'? How is it that in a world where people are encouraged to 'be themselves', an exception is made if 'being yourself' means being smart? It's a royal pain in the butt to have to edit your conversation so that you don't use words that people think are 'too big' so they won't think you a 'snob'. Why is it so hideous to want to have someone in your life that you can just be yourself with, including being able to talk about anything, without having to worry that this person will also be judging you negatively because you have a high-end vocabulary or because you like to discuss theories? I'm sick to death of pretending to be someone I'm not just so people around me won't feel 'threatened'. I'm not a threat. I'm a pussycat. But heaven forfend I converse in a style that would be comfortable for me. Noo, gotta keep that editor on all the time so that I don't let something slip because the real me is 'threatening' THAT is exhausting.
Star Gazer Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 No offense but you sound very arrogant. Maybe it's not your intelligence that's a turn-off to these men afterall. Maybe you should try to be grateful for the gift you've been given...your brain...rather than be boastful about it. If I were with someone who constantly tried to make me feel as if I were an idiot, I'd want to leave ASAP. That to me just sounds so mentally exhausting rather than stimulating. I couldn't agree more. What clued me in was the fact that you have to "win" arguments and debates - that's not exciting, that's draining. Keep in mind that there's a very clear difference between being "book smart" (i.e., SATs, debate, etc.) and "street smart" (basic common sense and and understanding of human nature and the way the world works). I would agree that guys like intelligent women over dumb broads, but in my gut I think they'd prefer displays of the latter form of "smarts" over a blatant in-your-face "look how much I know that you don't" - and that's exactly how you come across.
Author insomnie Posted December 16, 2006 Author Posted December 16, 2006 Heh. Whatever. Thanks for shooting me down y'all. I'm a nice person and the main reason I came to LS was because I needed some help dealing with the shock that the one person I prioritized in every way for the past 3 years, the person I loved SO MUCH, stopped caring about me and told me he wanted to be alone. Two days later he was involved in a romance with one of the dumbest girls I know. Throughout our relationship he repeatedly told me my intelligence turned him off. I just wanted opinions on whether or not my experience could be generalized and some very vague conclusion about what men want could be drawn from it. Everyone likes different things about themselves. Some people think think their physical attributes make them stand out, others value their own sense of humor. I happen to like my brain. I'm sorry if that makes me arrogant, but I don't think it's any more arrogant than a girl thinking she is physically hotter than some people she knows. I agree that academic smarts don't equal street smarts or emotional intelligence or a good personality, and I'm not going to argue about whether or not I'm smart in the right way, or as smart as I seem to be claiming (and I am not really claiming anything except for that I am smarter than bf's new gf). That's irrelevent. The point of this thread was to gahter opinions about how men felt about a woman's intelligence. That is all. The consensus seems to be that while it's a nice feature, it's not all that important. Great, I can live with that. There's no need to be mean.
Vertex Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I wouldn't say the people here are being mean. It's just one additional aspect of "street smarts" that I think would prove to be useful. While, fundamentally speaking, intellect is something that makes you stand out (much like being hot), it is more rare -- flaunting too much intellect makes you arrogant, and flaunting too much hotness makes you a superficial attention-whore. Yes, it isn't necessarily a logical parallel, but it's the way things tend to work in terms of superlatives. This is the huge difference between street smarts and book smarts -- street smarts are usually only acquired through experience and observation, and usually involve things that just don't make sense. Irregularities that just have to be kept in the back of your mind. Eventually, though, the street smarts DO make sense. It's a different mindset. It would be like a hot girl complaining about her boyfriend going for someone considered to be ugly. Underneath it all, you can't pinpoint it. This girl you speak of may not be as smart as you, but there are certainly other factors involved. You place a high weight on intelligence, which I think can either help or hurt you. I've dated people who were book-smart, but it made for a crap relationship because they didn't know how to work through the rough spots. You need someone who shares the same views you do emotionally. That's key -- everything else is just icing on the cake. If you want to break down your case into a generalized concept and derive some sort of meaning from it, I'd say that the following is a good indicator: "I'm a nice person and the main reason I came to LS was because I needed some help dealing with the shock that the one person I prioritized in every way for the past 3 years, the person I loved SO MUCH, stopped caring about me and told me he wanted to be alone." I can relate to this so, while it may not help, it might because I've been there before: You may have all the love in the world for someone, and have the right intentions, and be so tuned-in to how someone else feels and what preferences they possess... but at the end of the day, it takes two people to be in a relationship. The care has to be coming from both sides in similar magnitudes, or else there is an imbalance that never quite returns to equilibrium. There are many factors that will kill most relationships despite intent -- whether it be too much time together, or natural life transitions, or fundamental differences in personality and compatibility or chemistry. Just because you feel one way doesn't ensure the other person will. Simply placing a high value on the way you treat someone doesn't mean someone else will place equal value on your actions and appreciate them in a similar way. Sometimes it's a matter of maturity. People, when immature, sometimes just don't know what's good for them. They need different things in different points in life. Priorities change. Sometimes people just need to be in a relationship. Others want the physical aspect -- others want someone they can see marrying. There are so many differences in intention that can arise. The most important thing, I think, is to find someone who views relationships the same way you do. Otherwise it's only a matter of time. I think that's the general case here. If you don't think so, let me know why.
westernxer Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Throughout our relationship he repeatedly told me my intelligence turned him off. Sure took him long enough to walk away.
jerbear Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 =And I go to UVA - University of Virginia. Great school! I attend the Wharton School and the College of Arts and Sciences at UPenn. yeah but my other alma mater got your dean, from fellow alum Anyway, I love intelligent women, as another poster mentioned, genius IQ is not all it is cracked up to be. I've met savants but couldn't figure out strategy. Even met a math genius but everyone avoided because he'll scream once in awhile but he could do any math problem given to him in his head. I love intelligent women, to bad some are just to young (in college) or way to old (MILF and some are GMILF level) I'm not intimiated by a intelligent woman, most of the time they just hide and live in the library or work to much when I was in college. Now fastforward, I don't fish in the company pond.
IpAncA Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I'm pretty smart. I made a perfect score on the SATs, I read a lot, and I LOVE to argue. I'm pretty good at it, too, but I find that anytime my conversations with guys get exciting and mentally challenging, and ESPECIALLY anytime I "win", the guys I am arguing with get completely turned off and sometimes even angry. I'm also very perceptive. Because I place a high value on love, I am very tuned in to the behaivior and moods of my SOs. I can't help it, and it isn't like I am creepy on purpose or a stalker...just smart enough to know what's going on, when I am being deceived in some way, etc.. I trust my intuition (it's never failed me!) and I'm smart enough to see through people's bull****. This, too, seems to be a HUGE turnoff to guys. I have even been told this. Every guy I've ever been with has had a rebound very quickly after we broke up with someone FAR less intelligent. And sure, I know people are intelligent in different ways and blah blah...but these girls were WAY dumber. Read this over again and think about it. These girls may be according to you WAY dumber but they are with someone are they not? Just because their not book smart, doesn't mean that they can't keep a boyfriend. You do come off in a negative way. Do you always think you are right? You seem to me to place yourself so high on the thrown as "I'm smart" and you play off of it and you probably make others feel below you instead of on each others level.
iron_m Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 As I've said in other posts, I am a grad student, I have several female friends from school and they are very inteligent persons and most of them are single and not even in a relationship for some time now. They are in general physically (very) atractive persons, they dress well and take care of their appeareance... yet they appear not to be atractive to men in the same way other girls are... So, this is a recurrent one among us, because they see the same paradox that you see. This is my experience: My male friends, prefer a phisically beautiful woman that is not so dumb. I instead prefer a brillant woman who is not ugly , sincerely. An inteligent woman is usually more "realistic", they are not cheap paperback readers and they have more reasonable expectations from relationships of any sort. They are also funnier to hang out with because they have a more diverse spectrum of activities/hobbies and they are independet and very confident. They are very sentitive, but they are rational and pragmatic when needed to. Good education and wide cultural background (from extensive reading, traveling, living abroad, etc) is also a common trait among the women I like. So there are some men that may feel atracted to extremely inteligent women. But a big turn off for me is a woman who is excesively argumentative. Who gets into a discussion "just to win". Who has a point of view and does not accept that other person may have a different one. I mean, the same kind of repulsion is caused in me by a man with this attitude, but there is no problem because in that case I do not even make friend with the guy, but with a woman is different, I may know her for a while, find her interesting (not necesarly as sentimental relationship material, but in general) and as she shows this "arrogant" attitude I loose all interest in any kind of interaction. So the 'rejection" becomes evident because I first interacted with her and then I avoid her. So, what I tell my female friends is that I am not sure that their lack of success with men is ONLY because they are intelligent. In general they are inteligent, but also very competitive, they are also very critic and tend to give opinion about anything. They are good listeners with me and other male friends, but they admit that when in a relationship they are not so good at it and want to solve every problem for their SO. I am not saying they do not have that right to give opinion or get involved, but sometimes you need to moderate the coments specially with the people you love (family, friends, SO, etc). And this goes for guys and girls. I have learned that the hard way, hurting and being hurt by people I loved just because we where treating each other as fellow researchers more than friends, whatever. So, what you say is partially true in my opinion, but the diagnostic is not so clear.
HeadlessZebra Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 OP, you need to differentiate between "highly intelligent" and "insufferable, arrogant, intellectualizing, pompous bitch". (I'm not saying you're that; I'm just drawing the line.) For example, when given situation X, Highly Intelligent Girl will grasp it with great depth and ease and nod accordingly; Pompous Bitch will go off on a bombastic matter-of-fact shpiel about it, subconsciously trying to flaunt her superior brains. In my experience, no man has any problem with Highly Intelligent Girl, but very few will date Pompous Bitch. Brains are like bras. You just have them, and they're useful tools to keep your boobs in place, but you don't go around flashing your bra to everyone, because it would be tacky. Instead, you keep it under your shirt and reap only the benefit of the perky boobs it gives you, and everyone admires your boobs without being offended by your nudity. I hope that made sense. My boyfriend has a hard time with my crazy metaphors.
someone2 Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Insomnie, hang in there. You just haven't met the right guy yet. Basically, you.are.my.dream.girl. I just can't find one like you here I am pretty sure there are lots of guys like me out there. Keep your spirit up.
westernxer Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 But a big turn off for me is a woman who is excesively argumentative. Who gets into a discussion "just to win". Who has a point of view and does not accept that other person may have a different one. I question the intelligence of people who argue about things that are trivial, especially if it's just to show others how smart they are. Posers, if you ask me. Not sexy at all.
HeadlessZebra Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I actually prefer men that aren't necessarily as intelletually smart as I am. I know I am going to take a lot of flak for saying that, but it's true. I'm so tired of arguing truth that I am ready to say "whatever" to just about any subject. No flak here! I feel ya, girlfriend. But dumb guys are just too easy, too boring; no challenge there... Yeah, you talk to them for a few hours, impress them with a couple of witty quips, a couple of poems, couple of coy glances... suddenly they're professing their undying love the same night they meet you... and you just know they're too dumb to possibly distinguish between love and infatuation, so nothing that comes out of their mouth is valid because they're too dumb to even understand themselves. What a yawn. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it, moved on. Cynical? Maybe. But generally true nonetheless, as ugly as it sounds.
Shamrocked Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 My two drachmas: I am also a very intelligent woman - Captain of the debate team in HS, perfect SAT score (almost perfect GRE scores), I was already "published" as an undergrad, I am starting to become well-known in my area of expertise, I've been in "mentally gifted" classes/programs for most of my life, etc. It also doesn't hurt that I am considered "attractive." With that being said, I have never had any problems in dating. I have dated "hot" and marginally intelligent guys, financially successful guys, extremely intelligent guys and everything in between. I have never had a guy tell me that I make him feel inferior and I do not approach my relationships like they are some kind of debate tournament or battle of wits. In short, I am secure enough in myself to not use my intelligence like it's a blunt weapon or a way for me to exercise dominance over my partner. Let's get real here; scoring well on standardized tests and making A's in college is kind of a game. I wish this were hyperbole, but I know some people with BA's/BS's who are some of the most objectively stupid people I have ever met. Even at one of the Ivies (where I went to undergrad), grade inflation certainly exists and is a poor indicator of "intelligence" or success. I did it and I did it well, but it's not like the world needs to bow down to me just because XYZ school gave me a BA and an MA (hopefully a PhD. too. ). It really doesn't mean anything and it certainly doesn't translate into common sense or social skills. It isn't a "virtue" in and of itself and it sure as hell won't insulate you from getting hurt in romance. Yes, intelligence is important and it is something I value highly. I love smart men and I find that intelligence can propel a guy who might be a 5 to a 10. Intelligence is not just challenging to me, it is exciting and erotic. However, I am still down-to-earth and a real person. I have a whole lifetime of experiences and other personal characteristics that define me - not just my intelligence or looks. I realize that I am not the smartest or the greatest person to ever walk the face of the earth and I don't have anything invested in making others feel "small" so that I can feel "big." This does not necessarily apply to you, but I have found that the people who are most keen on parading their intelligence are usually the most insecure.
the_alchemyst Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I completely agree with your observation, Insomnie. Personally, I'm not one to flaunt my "intelligence" or my good scores or my good grades or my good anything, academically speaking. In fact, I don't really consider myself as "highly intelligent" or even "intelligent" at all. If you were to ask me, I'd tell you that I think I'm "all right"--I'm not stupid or anything, but there is certainly much, much more for me to learn. But IRL, people always think of me as the "smart one." Ever since grade school, I was in a program called GATE, which was for the allegedly "gifted and talented" children. I continued in this program for as up until HS when I became I total punk. Within my little group of closer friends, I'm always singled out as being the "smartest" or the "most smart" as they say it, haha. When I took the SATs in HS, I scored a 1580, which was 20 less than perfect, and I scored a 34/36 on my ACTs. This was a complete shocker for everyone, especially myself, because, as I said above, I was such a punk in HS. I hardly ever went to school in HS. Once, I even had the audacity to rack up 50+ absenses in one semester. Most of my teachers disliked me and one even accused me of being on drugs, which was not true. All I ever wanted to do was go to the park to hang out with either my lonely self or other weirdos and chain smoke. And well, that's virtually all I ever did. And yet, somehow, I managed to graduate with a 3.6 (which I have since attributed to the fact that since I was in AP classes, all that really mattered were the exams and essays--which I always took and wrote, and did more than well on them) and do extremely well on SATs and ACTs. In fact, for my class, I was the highest scorer, which pissed everyone off because I was such a screw up. They just didn't understand how that was possible. But, hello! Just because I thought school and class was boring as church didn't mean I didn't read my textbooks. And despite all of my shenanigans during HS, because of my grades and test scores and personal statement, I was as good as in UCLA, which I ended up not going to because of the now exbf. So, now, thanks to my idiocy, I am in a CC, and I have to admit that most people in my classes are kind of dumb. And the girls are all ditzy and annoying. And yet boys swarm all over them. So, why's that? Are they that much better looking? I don't think so. I'm not saying I'm amazingly gorgeous or anything like that, but I'm not a troll. And plenty of guys look my way and smile, and some even begin some small talk, but then after, like, 5 minutes, they get completely disinterested. Why? Because I don't say "totally" every other word? So then they go chasing some galloping hooters who are yelling out, "Oh my gosh, Duncan! That is, like, so totally awesome, dude!!" How stupid. And this is "chemistry" or "personality"? There cannot be more blandness than that! And what's worse is the fact that I'm not a snob at all. Yea, I like to read and write in my spare time, but I also like videogames and I'll bet $20 bucks that I can take on any other chick. I'm also very into music, doing stuff just because why the hell not, talking out of my ass because nonsense can be fun, cooking, and being nice to the point where I think my flaw is either the fact that I'm nice or that I have a brain that I actually use. I'm not being arrogant, I'm just being honest. And from personal experience, I can tell you that if I'm paired up against another girl my age, I will always lose because my niceness, my patience, my "smartness," my caring nature, of any of my other "attributes" will ever win against big knockers and a small brain. And that's all there is to it. Oh, and "they're not worth it, anyway" right? Yea, well tell me again when I'm 40 and single and bitter because no one was "ever worth it." /end rant. :mad:
HeadlessZebra Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 after, like, 5 minutes, they get completely disinterested. Why? Because I don't say "totally" every other word? So then they go chasing some galloping hooters who are yelling out, "Oh my gosh, Duncan! That is, like, so totally awesome, dude!!" Well, there's your answer, IMO. I have a question for you unsuccessful smart daters. Have you considered the possibility that you come off as too serious, too heavy, not light and cheerful enough? That's what I've noticed with most of my fellow braniac-ettes... they tend to take themselves much too seriously because they see more deeply into things and therefore don't view life as a barrel of monkeys... and then they wonder why the ditzy gals, who are always giggling and prancing about like they're oblivious to the world around them, seem to get all the guys! Which one of these describes your style of conversation? A) Guy: "How was your day?" Girl: "Well, it's been enlightening. I woke up debating whether Freud's theories were actually as much of a projection of his own twisted complexes as I originally made them out to be. Then my brother called me to confess that he couldn't bring himself to make a bowel movement when he was a toddler, and I stopped to reflect on his stubborn, unyielding personality. Suddenly it hit me that Freud may have a valid point after all. So I took a walk in the park to clear my head and gain some perspective and blah blah blah..." OR B) Guy: "How was your day?" Girl: "OMG! It was so funny! I, like, saw this guy in the mall and he was wearing, like, the coolest pants! So I went up to him and said to him, 'OMG those are the cutest pants ever. Where'd you get them?' And he stared at me like I was nuts! And he, like, he said, 'Don't you know who I am?' And I was like, 'Um, no...' And I was so embarassed! So I, like, walked away and I asked Shelley if she knew who the guy was, and she was like, 'Duh! That's Justin Timberlake!' And I, like, felt so stooooooopid!!! Heeheehee! So, you wanna go to the movies with us?" Say what you will, but the second girl is bubbly and energizing to be around, and doesn't bog the guy down with weighty concerns. Young people date to have fun, and if you're not lighthearted, you lose in the short term.
IpAncA Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Alright how the he** did you guys get almost a perfect score on the GRE! I had to take the stupid test myself and I got little over a 1000 and I had to take it more than once and I still don't know what all those dam words mean lol!! I did good on the Math but the verbal, come on who uses Aberrant, Abate, or Abstemious in the common language?
westernxer Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Young people date to have fun, and if you're not lighthearted, you lose in the short term. Probably the long term, too.
HeadlessZebra Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Aberrant, Abate, or Abstemious in the common language? I use aberrant and abate, but never abstemious. Don't hate it cuz you ain't it!
IpAncA Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Which one of these describes your style of conversation? A) Guy: "How was your day?" Girl: "Well, it's been enlightening. I woke up debating whether Freud's theories were actually as much of a projection of his own twisted complexes as I originally made them out to be. Then my brother called me to confess that he couldn't bring himself to make a bowel movement when he was a toddler, and I stopped to reflect on his stubborn, unyielding personality. Suddenly it hit me that Freud may have a valid point after all. So I took a walk in the park to clear my head and gain some perspective and blah blah blah..." OR B) Guy: "How was your day?" Girl: "OMG! It was so funny! I, like, saw this guy in the mall and he was wearing, like, the coolest pants! So I went up to him and said to him, 'OMG those are the cutest pants ever. Where'd you get them?' And he stared at me like I was nuts! And he, like, he said, 'Don't you know who I am?' And I was like, 'Um, no...' And I was so embarassed! So I, like, walked away and I asked Shelley if she knew who the guy was, and she was like, 'Duh! That's Justin Timberlake!' And I, like, felt so stooooooopid!!! Heeheehee! So, you wanna go to the movies with us?" Say what you will, but the second girl is bubbly and energizing to be around, and doesn't bog the guy down with weighty concerns. Young people date to have fun, and if you're not lighthearted, you lose in the short term. LOL!!! :laugh: I know someone who is like A and B and they are sooooo boring and so annoying. What happends if your not in either one?
IpAncA Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 I use aberrant and abate, but never abstemious. Don't hate it cuz you ain't it! I've never used those in my life along with some other ones. When I was going through some of those words, I felt like such an idiot:laugh:.
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