From Doomed Couple to Coupledom

[JazzyFox]

Its been some time since I posted here, but everyone was so helpful, that Ive decided to post again.

 

RECAP

I met a wonderful man while on vacation in Hawaii back in 2004, returned twice within six months to continue the relationship. We called, wrote, emailed, etc. By early 2005 I made it clear that either he came to my hometown to visit me, or else it was over. Great while it lasted, but it would be over.

 

Family, work and financial challenges prevented him from ever coming, and while we kept in touch for almost a year, it was essentially over.

 

By early 2006, his business collapsed and his family moved to different countries. With nothing to hold on to, he skipped over to the mainland to start afresh in Arizona.

 

We still kept in touch, albeit less frequently, and in August of this year he wrote me an incredibly touching email to tell me that he was dying to see me, and that he wanted to come visit me. My response was somewhat less commital and he stayed silent.

 

A few months later, I emailed him to see where he was and what he was doing. He offered to come visit me. I said when? He said today. That night he arrived and almost eight weeks later, we are still together.

 

When I arrived to pick him up at the airport, our kiss was electric. The passion is still there. The love is strong.

 

SO, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

 

Problemo Numero Uno

For immigration purposes, he can't work for at least another 10 months. So he mopes all day at home, sleeping 16-18 hours a day, has a hard time doing small tasks at home (dishes, cleaning, doing the bed, etc). Because of that, he doesn't have the same energy level/oomph/excitement that I originally fell in love with. I feel like I adopted a teenage son, that I need to tell what to do, when/how to do it.

 

Problemo Numero Dos

I recently discovered that his hiast in Arizona was accompanied, and his ex has recently discovered my existence, and one weekend called a hundred times leaving expletive voicemails at my home/office and cell. When she finally spoke to me in person, she told me what an A$$h01e he was, that he lived off of her, wanted to marry her and have her children, had her pay for airplane tickets to see her, and that he had called her just last week to tell her that he missed her and still loved her. While she knew he was leaving because of irreconcilable differences, she had no idea that it was to be with another woman. She had no idea I even existed.

 

While I am a bit upset that was able and motivated to move to Arizona to be with her, and could not do the same for me a year before, I am mostly concerned that:

• he will leave me as promptly as he left her
  
• he still has feelings for her
  

 

Problemo Numero Tres

I discovered this past week that he continues to have an attraction to an internet fling of last year, and that he has offered to return to Hawaii for an intensive lovefest. Unbeknownst to him, this fling is actually me. When we broke up, I found this as an alternative to keep in touch with him without the baggage of our relationship. He has no idea. Of course, I feel betrayed. And, of course, I betrayed him.

 

COURSE OF ACTION

I engaged him in a conversation yesterday essentially laying out that:

• he no longer appeared to have the fire and enthousiasm that I once fell in love with
  
• I needed to feel respect and admiration for the man I love
  
• I felt that he was no longer self-motivated, which made me feel that I needed to push and motivate him to do things
  
• I felt that I was treating him like a teenager
  
• I didnt enjoy treating him like a teenager, or pushing him to do things
  
• I was quickly reaching my level of tolerance, and I no longer had hope that the relationship would survive
  

 

He appeared to understand, and promptly went outside and chopped wood for an hour and a half. He then swept the balcony, of his own initiative, and all the cobwebs. He woke up this morning, made the coffee and got the paper, and then proceeded to doing the dishes.

 

It appears that this might have resolved the problemo numero uno, but Im still left with dos and tres. Im not very keen on having those discussions, and I wanted to know what your perspectives and thoughts were on the topic.

 

Thank you for your time, and may the comments begin ...

[noforgiveness]

I'm sorry i know you're upset and t's not funny but problem three had me chuckling.

He in essence is having an emotional affair with you but he doesn't know it soooo is it true love with you and he can't resist the other you or is he a cheat? Weird.

[JackJack]

He appeared to understand, and promptly went outside and chopped wood for an hour and a half. He then swept the balcony, of his own initiative, and all the cobwebs. He woke up this morning, made the coffee and got the paper, and then proceeded to doing the dishes.

 

 

Thats great, how long do you think it will last. He is a grown man not a teenager and you shouldn't have to feel the need to light a fire under is ass to get him to do things. So you are right in feeling that way.

 

When I got to the problem number one part, the first thing that came to my mind was, he moved in with you to mooch off of you. or that is how it appears anyway. His ex even told you herself he lived off of her, so maybe theres some truth to that. I think it all boils down to what you feel you can tolerate and are going to put up with.

[JazzyFox]

I'm sorry i know you're upset and t's not funny but problem three had me chuckling.

He in essence is having an emotional affair with you but he doesn't know it soooo is it true love with you and he can't resist the other you or is he a cheat? Weird.

 

Totally true. After reading your post, I had a serious chuckle myself.

[JazzyFox]

When I got to the problem number one part, the first thing that came to my mind was, he moved in with you to mooch off of you. or that is how it appears anyway. His ex even told you herself he lived off of her, so maybe theres some truth to that. I think it all boils down to what you feel you can tolerate and are going to put up with.

 

Which brings us to the essence of the dilemna. Financially, he can pretty much mooch off me as much as he wants. But I want to feel like he is contributing something, either to myself, the household or society. So I gave him a pile of wood to chop. His latest brainchild is to do some volunteer work. Fantastic idea ... will keep him busy, and will begin to do something for someone other then himself. I got him some contacts to call, and some info on some local charities. But he has not called.

[noforgiveness]

oh no dare I say it.

 

I am so against illegals in this country but...

I can't imagine it would be that difficult for him to get a landscaping job or something under the radar. If he wanted to make money he could.

 

I still keep thinking about dilemna 3:laugh:

[JazzyFox]

while you're thinking about dilemna 3, are you just laughing ... or do you have any suggestions?

[noforgiveness]

I rally don't have any suggestions I'm sorry.

You're really stuck with that one because you were basically deceiving him.

 

I would maybe just break all contact off with him as that persona and let it drop.

 

You could come clean but i just don't see that accomplishing anything but hurt feelings on both sides.

 

I just don't see you being ableto brand him a cheat though when it was you.

 

I wonder, could he know it's you and it's just a fun flirty game?

[JazzyFox]

I wonder, could he know it's you and it's just a fun flirty game?

 

I dont think so, because when I "found him out" last year (because he was using my email to reply), he apologized profusely, and even apologized again a few weeks ago.

[umbo]

Hey Miss Fox read your post and you seem smart savvy,impressionable. I can tell you have a good heart so I'll loan you my two sense. This immigrant is not showing you any loyalty (ie faithfulness ,dependability ,trustworthiness). He is cheating on you after you gave him a place to stay eat,work and lodge . I know your heart is invovled, but to save it you must cut all ties emotional,verbal physical with this liar. HIs ex is probably telling some truth his lack of energy lack of drive lack of self respect can't even wash dishes lack of discipline shrieks he is not a man. So run dear kick him to the curb he does not deserve your efforts patience kindness. YOur future husband is waiting for you and it is not this kid. Hey good luck Mahalo.

[JazzyFox]

kick him to the curb he does not deserve your efforts patience kindness. YOur future husband is waiting for you and it is not this kid. Hey good luck Mahalo.

 

As is typical of this forum, where I tell you the problem, you give me the solution, and then I negate the circumstances ... I will stay true to form, and open the debate to your "kick him to the curb" proposal.

 

• I really do love him, and have feelings for him like I never have
  
• He has been taking much more initiative on the basics of household maintenance (dishes, cleaning my car before I go to work, sweeping the floor, washing the toilets) and all without my requesting it
  
• He is obviously unhappy and depressed with his work/financial situation, and having been depressed not so long ago, I know the effect it has on motivation and sleep patterns
  
• I really do want to help him
  

 

BUT

 

• I don't want to treat him like a child. I want a man, not a lazy teenager.
  
• I don't want to nag him
  
• I don't want to have "serious" conversations every night
  
• I don't want to criticize him
  

 

That being said, is "kicking him to the curb" the only solution?

[JackJack]

You basically have 2 choices. You either stay with him in hopes things will change, or you move on without him.

[NoIDidn't]

I think you should ask him to get his own place somewhere and support himself. If he balks at the idea, then I think you may have your answer.

 

I don't quite understand why he can't work for another 10 months, though? Is he applying for Amnesty or something? Is he truly illegal or is he dealing with something that is unique to the country he came from?

[My Fair Katie]

Is he truly illegal or is he dealing with something that is unique to the country he came from?

 

As I read it he's an American Immigrant to Canada yes? He probably won't be able to get his own place as I would assume most landlords would want pay stubs which he can't provide.

 

Depending on where you live in Canada he could live just across the US border.

 

I dunno, you're in a pickle, personally I wouldn't want to be with a guy like that. The internet trick you pulled would've been the nail in the coffin for me as it would just tell me he doesn't plan on being faithful.

[JazzyFox]

I think you should ask him to get his own place somewhere and support himself. If he balks at the idea, then I think you may have your answer.

 

I don't quite understand why he can't work for another 10 months, though? Is he applying for Amnesty or something? Is he truly illegal or is he dealing with something that is unique to the country he came from?

 

I know he cant support himself. He gets a small allowance from his family, and would never be able to cover rent and food expenses.

 

As for working, his is not a citizen or resident of my country, and short of getting married, he can only apply for residency after 12 months of commonlaw marriage (ie living together). Once a resident, then he can work (legally).

[JazzyFox]

The internet trick you pulled would've been the nail in the coffin for me as it would just tell me he doesn't plan on being faithful.

 

That's how I see it as well, but Im not sure how to approach the situation. Any thoughts?

 

Here's one. When he last replied to his "imaginary" friend, he used an internet email account on my work computer. I thought of maybe confronting him by saying that my office tracks all incoming/outgoing on office computers, and, knowing that he's a bit e-illiterate ... I thought I might nail him on his private discussions with his "imaginary" friend. The last email (the one sent from my pc) was by far the worst, where he said:

 

if i come to honolulu will you come and pick me up from the

airport i ll f*ck day and night -at your place

 

before that, his emails were pretty benign and non-commital (short word answers)

 

Anxious for your comments ...

[PandorasBox]

if i come to honolulu will you come and pick me up from the

airport i ll f*ck day and night -at your place

 

I'

m

sorry, but if my b/f, husband, live in lover whatever you wanna call it, said that in an email to another woman, he would be out the door. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. But its your call.

[umbo]

Miss Fox what you have acheived and attained in life thus far has required tough,rigorous, solid resolve. I know your heart says, stay help encourage and support your man. However he has given you various red flags to do otherwise; by your Numbers, Numero Dos: that he had called her just last week to tell her that he missed her and still loved her. This is cheating on you!, while manipulating his ex's heart telling her what she wants to believe. So he feels he is the man having two women fight over him. Instead of taking responsibility and getting a job or volunteering . Numero Tres: I discovered this past week that he continues to have an attraction to an internet fling of last year, and that he has offered to return to Hawaii for an intensive lovefest. This immigrant is cheating on you with some one from hawaii, again while at your home eating your dinner and because he does not know it is you, is irrelevent. Ms. Jazz this guy is a cheater manipulator,exploiter as long as you know this; at best he should get the he!! out of your house and terminate any finacial assistance he is abusing. Girl this guy must look good. Ms.Fox this guy is getting everything free let him earn your respect earn your support. Yes kicking him to the curb is prudent, shrewd and advisable. If he wants to come back to you after he gets himself together then of course you should weigh all your options.

[My Fair Katie]

That's how I see it as well, but Im not sure how to approach the situation. Any thoughts?

 

Okay, I think I understand where you're coming from. You are (righteously) angry that he would cheat. Yet the way you found out about the internet fling involved deceit on your part.

 

Well, break up with him without telling him that is why.

 

Just say, "This relationship is not working out for me. I think it's best if you return to the States. You have 1 day to get out of my house." Then stay FIRM. DO NOT apologize. If he argues with you just tell him, "I've given this a lot of thought and this is my final decision."

[JazzyFox]

Despite all of your good and honest suggestions, I swept this one under the rug. I had a few cryptic conversations with him on fidelity, and he stopped corresponding with the "other me".

 

We had a great xmas vacation, playing lots of games and spending lots of quality time together during the gross weather. I felt for the first time that we were really connecting again, and it was great.

 

This week I find out that he was phoning, and emailing his ex-girlfriend, telling her how much he misses her, and that he will see her soon (she lives 2000 miles away). (I came across this information through the beauty of the "history" tab on internet explorer)

 

I confronted him with the information yesterday afternoon, which of course he denied and denied until I told him that he was lying and that I wanted the truth. He finally came up with a few half-truths, which I again told him was not the entire truth. Throughout the whole talk-fest (lasting from noon to 2 am), he told me many things, which I will list here (even if some are contradictory):

• he is scared of commitment, and deciding to live in Canada for him is a big commitment (immigration, difficulty finding a job, etc)
  
• he loves me
  
• he wants to go back to his family in israel
  
• he misses his ex girlfriend, who lives in arizona, and he wants to see her one last time before he goes to his family
  
• he is not leaving me for another woman
  
• when he came to canada, it was just for a few weeks, which lasted a few months, and now he thinks he has overstayed his welcome
  
• he always wanted to come see me in my own country
  
• he is unstable, and doesn't know what he wants
  
• he is afraid that by leaving he is making a huge mistake
  

 

Of course, I didn't sleep a wink. I stayed up all night tossing and turning, going from rage, to shame, to missing him, back to rage again. How could I be such a dope? How could I fall in love with such a lying, cheating loser? How could he have kept all of this from me? Was I not listening? What else has he not told me?

 

I also have a decision to make. He has practically no money and since his return ticket to Arizona has expired, he will need me to either pay for him to go to Arizona, or for him to go to Israel. For $250 I can send him to Arizona so that he can shack up with his ex-girl for who knows how long (and I will feel betrayed in the process), or for $400 I can send him packing to Israel where he has no friendly skirts waiting for him.

 

I will need to make the decision by tonight.

 

Any thoughts out there?

[WhisperingWillow]

I say send him packing to Israel. Once you buy that ticket, come home, hand him the ticket, make him pack his things, call him a cab, and send him on his way. That's it. Then you can start the healing process for yourself. Stay firm, do not talk to him, block him from your life and don't look back. It will take some time but that's what must happen. He is clearly immature with his feelings and immature with where he must be at on a level with a woman. Do not give him any sympathy. He deserves none.

[JamesM]

I concur with Whispering Willow.

 

There seems to be no question that this guy will cheat on you. I am also guessing that his stay with you was always just that. It was never a plan to move in and get a real job.

 

His ex may have been right. He may have mooched off her as well. Just because he wants to back and see her does not mean she will keep him. I am guessing that if you follow up, his plan has two expected results: One, he will stay with her if she lets him...forget the family for now. Two, he will go back to his family if she does not let him stay. Either way, when he began contacing her, he was ready to move on from you. I am afraid you wanted a man, and he wanted to be a child.

 

Understanding that this is causing you alot of pain, I still say...let him go, and find another man who can be just that...a man.

[suzy61]

Definitely let him go.And let him go to Israel.I know you don't think it now, but it will be the best 400 dollars you ever spent.Ever.let him go and keep him out of your life.

[JazzyFox]

Well I'm feeling a little better, although I'm still running on empty sleep-wise.

 

I came home yesterday after a grueling day, with seven hours of driving time logged in during a snow storm. When I arrived, he asked me why I didn't kiss him hello. I said I didn't think he deserved it!

 

After a while, he told me that he had a terrible day, and finally packed his things. I asked if he called his ex to say that he was coming back. He didn't respond. Finally, I said "is that a yes"? He said yes.

 

He said that she was going to buy him a ticket today to return. I thought to myself, wow this is great, now I don't even have to spend any money. I asked if he was honest with her about wanting to return on Israel on the 18th. He said no.

 

Another bunch of half-truths.

 

I picked up the phone, and dialed the number she had left on my machine all those weeks ago. (I had kept it, just in case) She answered, and she was obviously crying. I told her that it was me.

 

We ended up having a fantastic conversation, that lasted close to an hour, all the while with him sitting next to me listening, in shock and awe. We shared our stories, and our frustrations, and collected and traded all of his half-truths, to both get a better understanding of the almost whole-truth. I haven't laughed so much in months.

 

When I hung up, I felt great. It was cathartic.Healing. She was sweet, and caring, and honest, and very empathetic. He was angry, and wounded, and shocked to hear that she didn't want to see him anymore.

 

Later that night, he asked me to buy him a ticket so he could go back to Israel on the 18th. I said that I would think about it, and get back to him on it.

 

I also said that if that's what he wanted, then he should finish chopping the wood (a few hours work). He asked why. I said, consider it an exchange of services. Otherwise, he should call somebody from his family to bail him out.

 

Who knows? Maybe he will be gone when I get home. And if not, and the wood is chopped, I'll glady use my airmiles to send him packing to London. And if the wood isn't chopped, the poor guy is on his own.

[WhisperingWillow]

I was going to say that you don't even have to pay for him to leave. If you so wish to choose that route. If it were me, I would tell him to pack up his stuff and get out. He's a resourceful charmer with a silver forked tongue. I'm sure he could get someone to buy his way back home. I would kick his ass to the curb so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.

 

It's great that you and she had a chance to talk and get everything out on the table. This will teach him a thing or two about using women, though he probably hasn't learned his lesson yet. He wants to go to Israel so bad let his mother, father, brother, sister, whatever pay for him to go. I would go home today and demand that he get out. Call him a cab and send him on his way.