Do "nice guys"...

[Spinderella]

Try to make themselves indispensible to you. Make you feel weak. When you leave them constantly phone you and declare feelings for you, acting as though nothing has changed. Be there to help you, and tell you how to do things so that even those things that you are independent in seem as though you are dependent on them for????????

[Porn_Guy]

i am a nice guy and do things for girls but they just want to be friends. i'm going to be 19 next month and i still haven't had a girlfriends yet. so i don't know if girls want guys like me. even though i would do anything for them.

[Spinderella]

i am a nice guy and do things for girls but they just want to be friends. i'm going to be 19 next month and i still haven't had a girlfriends yet. so i don't know if girls want guys like me. even though i would do anything for them.

TIP:

give AND recieve.

[blind_otter]

Try to make themselves indispensible to you. Make you feel weak. When you leave them constantly phone you and declare feelings for you, acting as though nothing has changed. Be there to help you, and tell you how to do things so that even those things that you are independent in seem as though you are dependent on them for????????

 

No, that wouldn't describe a nice guy. More like a desperate, obsessive person.

[Spinderella]

And what I am talking about is not being a nice person.

It is a form of controlling in a way. Being a nice person, you would do things without expectation. Do you see? You do things because you just want to, in fact, truly nice people don't really think about it, and generally don't realise how nice they are, because they are not banking it all up in the hope of getting a return.

the "nice guy" does things because he wants to get something in return, and make the woman feel she owes him, or she needs him, or weak, so that she will need him.

Its not neccessarily the worst possible character trait in the world, BUT, it is pretty transparent (usually), and makes the woman feel drained, not vibrant and alive, and generally feel she wants to get away and not stick around.

When you say you will do anything for girls, is this ALL girls, ANY girl?? Smacks of desperation.

[Spinderella]

No, that wouldn't describe a nice guy. More like a desperate, obsessive person.

You mean a stalker type? Or just someone desperate that the relationship does not end?

[blind_otter]

IME you never know someone will be a stalker until it's too late, although there are warning signs. I wouldn't put it past him, anyways, and I would be wary if I were you. It seems like he plays by emotional manipulation and that is always dangerous....

[Spinderella]

IME you never know someone will be a stalker until it's too late, although there are warning signs. I wouldn't put it past him, anyways, and I would be wary if I were you. It seems like he plays by emotional manipulation and that is always dangerous....

 

Thanks Blind Otter.

Doesn't everyone play by emotional manipulation to some degree, though?

I know alot of women who do this, and the more they get pushed away, the more they do it. However, I am making excuses I think. I have wondered before about how manipulative he is. He does the same thing with other people, does alot for them, and freely admits he does it in order to get ahead in the workplace etc. I will have to say strictly no contact from now on. Thing is, he has just made it harder for me, by his declarations, possibly intended to guilt me?

[Porn_Guy]

TIP:

give AND recieve.

but my mom always says to be nice and respectufl to girls. she says that what they like.

[blind_otter]

Doesn't everyone play by emotional manipulation to some degree, though?

I know alot of women who do this, and the more they get pushed away, the more they do it.

Well yeah, some more than others. But the truely emotional mature person is able to manuever through life without having to use emotional blackmail. Especially when it comes to relationships.

 

However, I am making excuses I think. I have wondered before about how manipulative he is. He does the same thing with other people, does alot for them, and freely admits he does it in order to get ahead in the workplace etc. I will have to say strictly no contact from now on. Thing is, he has just made it harder for me, by his declarations, possibly intended to guilt me?

 

Yep, guilt is the money when it comes to emotional blackmail. You pay him off with your guilt. That's not cool. You guys should come together on an even playing field, not one skewed towards one person or the other through guilt!

[CaliGuy]

Typical "nice guy" (read: Door mat) behavior. If some/most/all of these apply, you may be with a door mat.

 

1.) THE NICE GUY: Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors,

 

a.) Low self-esteem; doesn't value himself highly. Might be out of past failures or other deep-rooted emotional issues

b.) Constantly seeks approval/validation/attention from others, usually out of a low amount of self-worth (See a.)

c.) Insecure; doesn't feel that a high quality person should like him (See a. so is constantly fearful that he will lose them

d.) Controlling/posessive/domineering/clingy/suffocating behavior; overcalling, etc.. (See c.)

e.) Idealizes potential mates (overlooks flaws AKA "Puts them on a pedastal") as well as relationships (invests large amounts of emotion/time/energy/money into relationships early on)

f.) Doesn't take responsibility for his actions

g.) Claims he's victimized; attributes his own flaws and shortcomings to external circumstances and/or other people (See f.)

h.) Self-concious/nervous around attrative women; Cares what others think, doesn't want anyone to dissaprove of him (See b.)

i.) Strong amounts of jealously (See d.); makes people feel guilty when they enjoy time WITHOUT him

k.) Kisses-up/trys to be totally agreeable/submissive to try and "score points" with a woman

l.) Doesn't lead; he's submissive, always wants to make sure EVERYTHING he's doing is okay with her; over-apologetic

m.) Doesn't draw boundaries; gives women whatever they want in return for love/sex/approval; accepts second-class behavior for the possible reward of the aforementioned. Doesn't say "No" very often; doesnt want to cause any "waves" (See h.)

n.) Poor/weak body language; little or no eye contact, leans foward out of nervousness, fast/jerky movements, nervous ticks/figety habits, hands in pockets, bad posture/doesn't stand up straight

o.) Is easily emotionally destabilized; gets worked up over meaningless things

p.) Common use of self-deprecating humor to get approval/pity/empathy (See b.)

q.) Feels guilt for his natural sexual desires, maybe even LOOKING an a woman

r.) Whines/complains; usually to get pity/empathy

s.) Favors short-sighted/instant gratification thinking

 

The "nice-guy" is the personification of attributes in a man that women ultimately DO NOT feel attraction for.

 

Any man who wants to have genuine sucess with women should AVOID these at all costs

 

Women all around the globe, despite different backgrounds and upbringing, generally respond the same way to this type of man.

 

Nice-guys almost always act victimized and attribute their lack of sucess to outside factors they claim are out of their control. They think that it's not their fault (I.E "SHE'S IMMATURE FOR LIKING BAD BOYS" "SHE DOESNT RECOGNIZE GOOD GUYS WHEN SHE SEES THEM" "SHE HAS ISSUES" Sound familiar?). Many nice-guys harbor a [secret] belief that they're better than other men ("I bought her 20 roses on the 2nd date" "I waited in the rain for her for 3 hours" "I lent her money when she went over her credit card limit). However, the reality is that if you're doing something [NICE] to get something in return, you are being MANIPULATIVE. Nice guys will go through their entire lives living in a continual state of self-deception; convinced that they are "Good guys" and that they are better than others.

 

The fact of the matter is that nice guys do not have traits that make them appealing/attractive to the opposite sex.

 

The lack everything in a man that practically every woman wants.

[Star Gazer]

CaliGuy - you're wrong.

 

The behavior that the OP is describing is not "door mat"-ish, it's flat out manipulative.

[Rooster_DAR]

1.) THE NICE GUY: Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors,

 

a.) Low self-esteem; doesn't value himself highly. Might be out of past failures or other deep-rooted emotional issues

b.) Constantly seeks approval/validation/attention from others, usually out of a low amount of self-worth (See a.)

c.) Insecure; doesn't feel that a high quality person should like him (See a. so is constantly fearful that he will lose them

d.) Controlling/posessive/domineering/clingy/suffocating behavior; overcalling, etc.. (See c.)

e.) Idealizes potential mates (overlooks flaws AKA "Puts them on a pedastal") as well as relationships (invests large amounts of emotion/time/energy/money into relationships early on)

f.) Doesn't take responsibility for his actions

g.) Claims he's victimized; attributes his own flaws and shortcomings to external circumstances and/or other people (See f.)

h.) Self-concious/nervous around attrative women; Cares what others think, doesn't want anyone to dissaprove of him (See b.)

i.) Strong amounts of jealously (See d.); makes people feel guilty when they enjoy time WITHOUT him

k.) Kisses-up/trys to be totally agreeable/submissive to try and "score points" with a woman

l.) Doesn't lead; he's submissive, always wants to make sure EVERYTHING he's doing is okay with her; over-apologetic

m.) Doesn't draw boundaries; gives women whatever they want in return for love/sex/approval; accepts second-class behavior for the possible reward of the aforementioned. Doesn't say "No" very often; doesnt want to cause any "waves" (See h.)

n.) Poor/weak body language; little or no eye contact, leans foward out of nervousness, fast/jerky movements, nervous ticks/figety habits, hands in pockets, bad posture/doesn't stand up straight

o.) Is easily emotionally destabilized; gets worked up over meaningless things

p.) Common use of self-deprecating humor to get approval/pity/empathy (See b.)

q.) Feels guilt for his natural sexual desires, maybe even LOOKING an a woman

r.) Whines/complains; usually to get pity/empathy

s.) Favors short-sighted/instant gratification thinking

 

Wow! This describes me in a nutshell.

[Porn_Guy]

why is CALIGUY so obsessed with the "nice guy" stuff?

[Rooster_DAR]

why is CALIGUY so obsessed with the "nice guy" stuff?

 

 

Perhaps he was in these shoes at some point and learned from it. I was being sarcastic in my last posts, these signs he posted are somewhat true. Indeed if you give and expect something in return then we should re-evaluate our self worth.

 

Cheers!

[Spinderella]

Thanks for the detailed list Caliguy. Yes I would say he fits most of that description.

[CaliGuy]

Thanks for the detailed list Caliguy. Yes I would say he fits most of that description.

 

Well then the next thing I would do, if this were my friend per say, is to get him a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" (David Glover) for Christmas.....

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy - you're wrong.

 

The behavior that the OP is describing is not "door mat"-ish, it's flat out manipulative.

 

Being manipulative is VERY much a part of the nice-guy (door mat) persona. See her post confirming he has most of those behaviors....

 

Porn Guy - As a recovering "nice guy", I'm pretty well educated on the behavior and how to correct it. It's not an obession, it's CONTRIBUTING where I feel my knowledge can benefit others.

[Quinch]

Typical "nice guy" (read: Door mat) behavior. If some/most/all of these apply, you may be with a door mat.

 

1.) THE NICE GUY: Any man who exibits any combination of the following behaviors,

 

a.) Low self-esteem; doesn't value himself highly. Might be out of past failures or other deep-rooted emotional issues

b.) Constantly seeks approval/validation/attention from others, usually out of a low amount of self-worth (See a.)

c.) Insecure; doesn't feel that a high quality person should like him (See a. so is constantly fearful that he will lose them

d.) Controlling/posessive/domineering/clingy/suffocating behavior; overcalling, etc.. (See c.)

e.) Idealizes potential mates (overlooks flaws AKA "Puts them on a pedastal") as well as relationships (invests large amounts of emotion/time/energy/money into relationships early on)

etc...

 

I believe that guys who have these issues usually do so because they've been badly treated by women in the past. Behaviour is based on past experience. Do women really think they're never at fault?

[CaliGuy]

etc...

 

I believe that guys who have these issues usually do so because they've been badly treated by women in the past. Behaviour is based on past experience. Do women really think they're never at fault?

 

It's not usually because of how they have been treated by women at all. It's how they view themselves. It's how they were raised (often times by single mothers and absent fathers).

 

A man's sense of self-esteem (self worth) comes from "well being" (mothering) and "confidence" (fathering). When one part of the equation is absent (fathering) then the male becomes more or less overly self-concious. He aims to please others and displays the typical door mat behaviors.

 

He seeks approval from others instead of within.

 

This is why I harp so much about "No More Mr. Nice Guy" because it shows how these issues are created in a man and what he needs to do to become a well-balanced GOOD man (not a door mat, not a jerk).

 

Cheers.

[Woggle]

For the last 25 years or whenever Oprah went on the air it seems that people have been trying to make men into this and now that they have finally succeeded it seems that many women don't like the results at all. We need to start letting men be men and start teaching our biys how to be men and this problem will fix itself.

[Krytellan]

I believe that guys who have these issues usually do so because they've been badly treated by women in the past. Behaviour is based on past experience. Do women really think they're never at fault?

 

Based on personal experience, I would argue that it's quite the opposite. I was the nice guy until I got hurt enough. After the lessons I endured, I became more of the cocky/confident kinda guy (it also helped that I aged well) and now I don't truly give too much of myself until it has been earned.

 

I say too much because I do want to lay a bit of myself out there because I do in fact want a girl who appreciates the niceness. However, by holding back, I essentially save myself the potential hurt.

 

This current relationship I'm in I find rather amusing actually. Since I met her, I have really jacked up the coky/confident persona a bit (but I do it in a humerous/tongue in cheek/not sure if he means it kind of way) and she totally likes that attitude. That's good though because I have been able to discern that:

a: She does want a nice guy (trust me... 10 years in Psychology, I know

b: She wouldn't be attracted to me if I didn't have the confident side

 

Hmm... can't tell if I rambled or not. Umm...

 

I think nice guys actually do this stuff to win you over and don't really expect anything in return, at least based on my experience. I think it's that nice guys aren't as cold and calculating as someone who is doing it to strip power from you. There is a definite plan with these type of men. And the end result can often lead to some form of abuse... just saying, I've seen it a lot.

[SmoochieFace]

For the last 25 years or whenever Oprah went on the air it seems that people have been trying to make men into this and now that they have finally succeeded it seems that many women don't like the results at all. We need to start letting men be men and start teaching our biys how to be men and this problem will fix itself.

 

Instead of having Oprah and her clones - including those mealy-mouthed 'metro' Oprah wannabees on the tube 24/7 men need dudes like Bobby Knight who actually have the balls to teach them how to be men instead of sissified 'girly-men'.

[Woggle]

I am the type that will give my all in relationships but if a woman does not appreicate or she treats me like garbage I will leave., Nice guys keep coming back no matter how bad a woman treats them. I always treat a woman I am with well because if I choose to stay with her she has earned it.

[Porn_Guy]

I am the type that will give my all in relationships but if a woman does not appreicate or she treats me like garbage I will leave., .

actually its supposed to be the other way around. the girl should be nice and the boy bad. and then if his bad treatment gets too much then she leaves... you have the roles reversed.