would you forgive?

[amaysngrace]

No I will never forgive but others have told me i should and have gone so far as to make fun of my user name so i was looking for other opinions on it.

 

How could you possibly forgive when the wound is still so fresh? She hurt you bad and it's going to take time for it to heal.

 

It's really hard to forgive while you're still so hurt or angry. Maybe in time you will forgive her, who knows? But whatever you choose to feel for her, you are well within your rights to do so.

 

Some people I just can't forgive either. They are the ones who have my sympathy.

[noforgiveness]

But she is STILL calling, making attempts to get into your husband's good side...Maybe together you BOTH can call her and tell her to STOP calling, to move on, let go....Be to the point, don't let her explain or talk too much, just tell her to stop calling your husband. .. Or he can tell her.

 

You're nowhere near forgiveness right now, obviously seeing as she still calls, she's not ready to be forgiven either. Maybe in 6 months or a year when she disappears out of your life - That could be the time to quietly forgive her inside your heart and move on. Hope that makes sense...

yep. he needed to answer by saying do not ever call again not talk to her.

I know. We've talked about it and hopefully it will never happen again.

[noforgiveness]

How could you possibly forgive when the wound is still so fresh? She hurt you bad and it's going to take time for it to heal.

 

It's really hard to forgive while you're still so hurt or angry. Maybe in time you will forgive her, who knows? But whatever you choose to feel for her, you are well within your rights to do so.

 

Some people I just can't forgive either. They are the ones who have my sympathy.

 

thank you.

[whichwayisup]

yep. he needed to answer by saying do not ever call again not talk to her.

I know. We've talked about it and hopefully it will never happen again.

If she calls again, then you may need to change your number or get her number completely blocked.

 

I also suggest changing email addresses too...Who knows if she's trying to contact him through email??? I assume you have his passwords etc., so you can check up in there if need be?

 

I'm so angry for you about this!! Maybe I would feel differently about it if she was showing ANY sort of remorse, or leaving you two alone, but she's not! She's acting like an obsessed love-crazed teen who can't take NO for an answer....She needs help professionally, that is for sure!

[noforgiveness]

If she calls again, then you may need to change your number or get her number completely blocked.

 

I also suggest changing email addresses too...Who knows if she's trying to contact him through email??? I assume you have his passwords etc., so you can check up in there if need be?

 

I'm so angry for you about this!! Maybe I would feel differently about it if she was showing ANY sort of remorse, or leaving you two alone, but she's not! She's acting like an obsessed love-crazed teen who can't take NO for an answer....She needs help professionally, that is for sure!

Thanks.

Yes i have all the passwords and all but seriously none of that matters. It is so easy to create a new email address to use.

 

I know my husband well and his guilt level. I will def. sense it if something is not right.

 

I tried to let the recent calls go and not be angry and phone or text her in light of her recent family trauma.

If he talks to her again he's gone. no mtter how hard it would be. He knows the rules if he chooses to speak with her then he chose to not be married to me anymore.

[whichwayisup]

If he talks to her again he's gone. no mtter how hard it would be. He knows the rules if he chooses to speak with her then he chose to not be married to me anymore.

 

Good, I'm glad he is aware of this.

 

If he CHOOSES to still talk to her, he's a fool...He has alot to lose, and honestly, your exbf sounds like a real messed up person - So I honestly don't see WTF he sees in her, IF he does talk to her...

 

I'm glad you can read your husband so well!

[lasan]

I feel I should add that even if you do forgive her...she certianly doesn't need to be around your hubby and I hope your hubby takes what you said about him talking to her seriously.

[Ladyjane14]

Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

 

:lmao: Fabulous!!! We should make BUMPER STICKERS!

 

Holding resentment towards anybody for anything does nothing for you but make you ill, bitter, and miserable.......so unless you prefer to live that way.....let it go!!

 

I think what Moose is trying to tell us here is that it really IS possible to forgive someone from our hearts... and that it doesn't necessarily mean that we have to accept that person back into our lives.

 

When somebody is toxic to you, like your former friend is... it's just plain crazy to give them an opportunity to reoffend. I think it's safe to say since she's still attempting contact with your husband, she hasn't repaired whatever deficit she had inside that would allow for such a colossal betrayal as the one she perpetrated on you and your family. So IMO, we're still talking about a toxic person here.

 

But you don't have to carry all this enmity forward with you. You can cut FF (former friend) out of your life... but you can also let her go with your blessings. If you're a religious person, you might pray that she finds her way and that God assists her in finding her path. If you're not... you just wish her the best and move on.

 

You don't have to hate anybody. You don't even have to be mad. But honestly, I think you do have to be vigilant.

 

With that in mind, you and your husband should talk about changing contact information... phone numbers, email addresses, etc. And you might even sit down together and write a NO CONTACT letter to FF. She should know that her contact attempts are unwanted by both of you. This would give you an opportunity to make it clear to her that such attempts in the future will be considered as harrassment and treated as such.

 

The beauty of 'forgiveness with boundaries' is that you can let her know that although you truly wish her well in her future, it won't stop you from getting a restraining order if she doesn't stop bugging you.

[whichwayisup]

Until the exBF stops calling, trying to contact her husband, neither of them can really move on and even attempt to forgive...

 

I hate to say this, but even with the knowlegde of how much he has to lose, he still may slip and answer the phone if she calls...Emotional attachment! Until he detaches himself to the point where he couldn't care less about her or think about her in ANY way whatsoever, she's 'outthere' and on his mind. I could be completely wrong, but the fact is, (yes he told his wife the truth) but he STILL answered the phone, knowing full well that he wasn't supposed to...THAT MUST STOP.

 

Later in the future, when the calls stop and together they move on - Then it's time to forgive and let it go.....IN her mind and heart, but never a call the exBF to let her know this. Forgivess within.......

[Romeo Must Die]

The last time I heard anything about Julie, her high school boyfriend left her with two baby boys to raise. I dont know whatever happened to my ex-boyfriend. He moved to AZ, never to be heard from again.

 

As far as your FWS talking to xBF, I would be cautious. If it happened once, thats is enough for me to be concerned. If it were me, any contact what-so-ever would be my dealbreaker. You tell him, It's either going to be her or me. Its black or white. No shades of grey. Lay down the law and tell him any contact with that little skanky whoring two faced bitch means absolutely no forgiveness.

 

[Romeo Must Die]

PS I just read your reply after I posted this. Stick to your guns, NF.

 

I hear you.

 

IMO, if he didnt answer the phone that would be the same thing as telling her to buzz off. He should have made the supreme "effort" to block her calls by now. You should throw his phone out on the highway and watch the trucks run all over it. Closure for you.

[Chapter2]

I'm sorry, I held my questions as long as I could. I honestly have this question which way? What on earth makes you think he isn't contacting her? Why do you assume she is the one acting like a crazed teenager?

 

If he wants to talk to her, then he will. There is no way this was a simple friendship gone awry due to a man being victimized. I don't understand the double standard. I am respectfully asking you to help me see how it is so one sided and only the OW making the advances. How do you know this to be factual?

 

Until the exBF stops calling, trying to contact her husband, neither of them can really move on and even attempt to forgive...

 

I hate to say this, but even with the knowlegde of how much he has to lose, he still may slip and answer the phone if she calls...Emotional attachment! Until he detaches himself to the point where he couldn't care less about her or think about her in ANY way whatsoever, she's 'outthere' and on his mind. I could be completely wrong, but the fact is, (yes he told his wife the truth) but he STILL answered the phone, knowing full well that he wasn't supposed to...THAT MUST STOP.

 

Later in the future, when the calls stop and together they move on - Then it's time to forgive and let it go.....IN her mind and heart, but never a call the exBF to let her know this. Forgivess within.......

[yousaveme]

I'm just putting this out there. Calling her and having him tell her not to call anymore or him telling the OW not to call anymore in front of the W might not mean anything.

 

When we got caught his W wanted him to do the same thing. Call me and tell me I meant nothing to him. He called me before he was to make the call to tell me what was going to happen and not to believe anything that came out of his mouth. My number was changed so we didnt have to worry about me hearing him say that. He was worried that calling my old number would give him the new number.

 

She came home from work and maybe him call. He played the act called my number ( the old one) and she heard it was disconnected. She told him I guess she never cared for you..

 

Just a thought i wanted to put out there. If they want to talk or be with one another they are going to do it.

[Ladyjane14]

What on earth makes you think he isn't contacting her? Why do you assume she is the one acting like a crazed teenager?

 

Not speaking for WWIU.... But if NF has a high level of confidence at this stage in recovery, I think it's fairly prudent for her to assume innocence unless a reasonable doubt is presented. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

 

Trust has to be rebuilt on both sides. The betrayed spouse must learn to trust her husband again at some point. And the wayward spouse must learn to trust that a sense of normalcy will be returned to the marriage eventually.

[Freedom Now]

When my MM's wife found out about me, she called me. She told me that he was sitting next to her looking very afraid because she was speaking with me. She then asked me why, in my opinion, he would be so afraid?

 

I don't know. Did he look like he was having a heart attack or a stroke?

 

All funniness aside, he called me after her phone call. He apologized for her behavior and tried to continue the affair.

 

Shortly afterwards, he sent me an email stating that he loved his wife and that he would never would leave his family. I think it was the form letter from marriagebuilders.com.

 

Nevertheless, not five minutes after I received that email, he called begging me to not even open the letter. He said she was over his shoulder telling him what to write.

 

He begged my forgiveness in having to have received such a letter. And with that, the pursuit ensued again.

 

Yes, he very well could be still in contact with the OW.

 

For her sake, I hope not.

[Chapter2]

I agree 100%, however, I am continually puzzled at the assumption made by WWIU and others that its only the OW contacting the MM. If that is what must be believed to achieve "normalcly" then so be it. It just doesn't seem wise in my opinion. But, that is just my opinion.

 

My question is why must returning to trust and normalcy automatically mean that the OW is "behaving as a crazed teenager" that is in need of serious help? I just don't understand that.

 

Not speaking for WWIU.... But if NF has a high level of confidence at this stage in recovery, I think it's fairly prudent for her to assume innocence unless a reasonable doubt is presented. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

 

Trust has to be rebuilt on both sides. The betrayed spouse must learn to trust her husband again at some point. And the wayward spouse must learn to trust that a sense of normalcy will be returned to the marriage eventually.

[Freedom Now]

Not speaking for WWIU.... But if NF has a high level of confidence at this stage in recovery, I think it's fairly prudent for her to assume innocence unless a reasonable doubt is presented. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

 

Trust has to be rebuilt on both sides. The betrayed spouse must learn to trust her husband again at some point. And the wayward spouse must learn to trust that a sense of normalcy will be returned to the marriage eventually.

 

Not speaking for Chapter2, LadyJane, but I will take a stab at it.

 

I disagree. I believe noforgiveness' husband has lost the right of innocence until proven guilty. For when he lied and cheated, he lost that priviledge.

 

I would think it would be much more prudent and safe for her to assume he is guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around in light of the fact that contact is still being made.

[Chapter2]

Have you considered having him take a lie detector test? He has been extremely addimant regarding his innocence according to you. Why don't you have him take a polygraph test? You still have no rest and no peace about his fidelity if you are still suspicious. Trust is the cornerstone of marriage and its truly sad not to have that in any relationship.

 

If he talks to her again he's gone. no matter how hard it would be. He knows the rules if he chooses to speak with her then he chose to not be married to me anymore.

[Chapter2]

Ladyjane and WWIU? I was asking those questions honestly and would like your reply. Thank you.

[Ladyjane14]

I don't doubt that MM slither back to OW with their tail between their legs.

Heck... it happens all the time.

 

But there's either one of two things that are gonna happen next. Either the wife will catch him again, or the OW will finally see what a conniving sneak he is. MM is busted in both scenarios.

Because BOTH women are finally onto him.

 

Honestly, how did it make you feel FreedomNow to see the MM in action? Did you respect what he was doing? Or did he look kind of small and petty while he was doing it?

 

Once a MM gets caught, he can take the affair deeper underground... but he's NEVER going to be able to 'fly under the radar' like he did before. It took me less than 12 hours to catch my husband's inappropriate behavior once I realized he was capable of it. It's not until AFTER you open your eyes that you can see.

The reason I hadn't seen it previous to that was that it never occurred to me to look. I believed he was an honest man.

 

Meanwhile, the OW gets an opportunity to have her eyes opened too. If she's willing to look, that is.

 

Anyway, in terms of marital recovery... at a certain point in the process, I think there's more to be lost in keeping the wayward on the short leash and feeling trapped. It's not like he's going to get away with it if he starts it up again, and it's not like a betrayed spouse is going to encounter anything in the way of hurt feelings she hasn't experienced already.

 

Me? If I'm going down.... I'm not going down without a FIGHT. I'm going to take the leap of faith. I'm not going to waste alot of time guarding a heart that's already proved it can survive. I'm going to get my ass out there on the branch and test it. If it breaks, I'll pick myself up, dust myself off... and call my attorney.

[yousaveme]

There is one thing I do believe. He is being honest with someone.

[bonehead]

WS are very good at giving the BS just enough info to make them believe the A has ended.

 

Just as they are good at giving the OP just enough info to make them believe that the marriage sucks.

 

But with the fact the affair was with a very close friend I can see why there are serious issues there.

 

This is a woman who NF trusted greatly, and she betrayed that trust.

 

Personally I think that would have hurt me more then anything. You best friedn is who your supposed to turn to in a time like this, and she has lost that. So she really is suffering a double blow.

[Freedom Now]

To answer your question, LadyJane, seeing the MM in action with me after D day made me sick. He was pathetic. A coward. And I don't have an ounce of respect for him.

 

My eyes are open wide and have been for some time. I also want the BS to have her eyes opened too. It won't do for these MM to keep getting away with indiscretions, not matter how small they may appear.

 

Too many people are getting hurt here.

[peacelove]

What does D Day mean?

[Ladyjane14]

My question is why must returning to trust and normalcy automatically mean that the OW is "behaving as a crazed teenager" that is in need of serious help? I just don't understand that.

 

Sorry, I almost missed your question.

 

Yeah... I believe the FF's behavior was inappropriate to the point of emotional immaturity or dysfunction. "Crazed teenager" is as apt a description I guess as any under the circumstances.

 

It cannot possible have escaped her attention that she was supposed to be NF's friend. Her disregard of that fact is kind of like what one might expect of a youngster. Her inability to empathize, to 'walk a mile' in her friend's shoes'... these are things we expect to see in kids.

 

Teens are generally egocentric people, driven by their own angst and drama. Their own emotions are so strong and primary that they sometimes have a difficult time empathizing with others.

 

But we're not talking about a REAL kid. We're talking about a grown woman. And if she doesn't have enough on the ball to know that what she did was a betrayal of friendship.... there's something SERIOUSLY wrong with her.