notmakingsense Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 Oh, its a long and painful one ... I'll try to keep it short as I can! 3 years ago, I met and quickly fell in love with a beautiful, smart, and successful woman who was about 1 year out of a bitter divorce resulting from a 17 year marriage with a husband who cheated repeatedly. I myself was 4 years out of a divorce from a 7 year marriage... mine ended amicably and we both still co-parent two great kids. Over the 3 years, we had a very passionate relationship, but we would repeatedly get close then seperate -- she was the one who usually broke it off because of her fears of commitment, but also because I have a personality and background which was different than what she was used to. Me = social but introverted, modest financial status, a little co-dependant. Her comfort zone = very social & outgoing ex-husband, very rich, very independant. Whenever she would pull away, I would sink in to deep depressions, questioning my self-worth and ability to ever meet someone who ignites my passions like she did. For the first 2 years, I would write long love notes and work tirelessly to get her to come back to me, and I learned that whenever I distanced myself just a bit, she would always come back. During our "off" periods, both of us would dabble in dating others, but except for 1 drunken incident on my part, we both couldn't bear to sleep with others and would quickly find ourselves back in eachother's arms. Even at the end of 2 years, things didn't progress significantly. She still would pull away, not fully invite me in to her circle of friends, and I only interacted with her kids a few times -- these were all signs that she wasn't ready to commit yet. During our 3rd year, we had our most significant break-up. And once again, when she detected that I was moving on for real, she stopped dating others and drew me back in. This time, I still fell for it, but by now my trust was so eroded that I could feel myself being more distant -- even as we were together. Little signs of her lack of commitment would make me feel upset rather than hurt, and my tolerance for the behavior dropped dramatically. It ended again 2 weeks ago, when she didn't return my calls one day. What was a trivial annoyance turned into the straw that once again broke the camel's back -- only this time -- I broke up with her (instead of her getting scared and running away). It feels much different this time.... I still have desires to contact her, but it is much easier for me to be strong. I get moody from time to time, but nowhere near the depression I used to suffer. I think more about what the future holds, than the past that I miss. I'm quite excited at my progress, and I feel that this time, I can end it for good! Lessons learned.... these 3 years have taught me (very painfully) that you cannot change what you cannot control, and that once you have given your relationship a substantial effort -- if things still do not meet your expectations, it is a complete sign of low self-esteem to keep trying. It is a sign that you are not taking care of your own needs and you are not treating yourself as well as the person you put so high on a pedestal. This is why it is so important for those of us with lower self esteem to try hard to create and maintain proper boundaries and cut ourselves off of relationships that are toxic to us. We need to work on building our self-esteem, attributing higher value to ourselves, and deriving happiness from many other things besides validation from a partner. And the beautiful side effect of all this is, is that when our self-esteem is at its highest, we attract and become attracted to a much higher caliber of person.
D-Lish Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 It sounds like you are taking on the burden of your ex's issues. He has the commitment problem- stop internalizing his flaws and making them your problem. He's always going to do the push-pull thing with the women in his life, and there isn't anything you can do or say to stop that. And you must recognize his deep insecurity- anyone that can't handle a little confrontation or healthy criticism isn't very secure with who they are. It sounds as if he's quite skilled at making you feel guilty. Once you fully understand that it's him- not you, with the problem, you'll be able to look at your relationship with this guy with a better perspective. I've been where you are. Dated someone who wasn't capable of making a healthy real connection with anyone. And for a time I too internalized his lack of commitment to me and a problem within me. So I walked around blaming myself, stuck on blaming myself, focused on the "what if I had done this differently"... But the bottom line was/is that he is the one with the problem. You can take this time to work on yourself. Build the confidence and self esteem that is lacking. Join a gym, or a social network that allows you to meet new people. Take advantage of your friend at work- she obviously cares about you. It might also be a great way to meet a new guy! So, work on what you need to work on, but don't take on the burden of your ex's issues as your own. You really do need to cut him loose, he's always going to be a negative influence on your life. It's time to cut the cord and meet new people- put yourself out there! D
notmakingsense Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 NMS, I just read your post in another thread about the holiday season approaching. I'd honestly rather prefer the following scenario than spend X-mas with my Sex-and-the-City friend and her family: buy a good bottle of Merlot, make or get some great food, and watch a good movie (something like The Secret Gardener, or Quills). That would (for now) be the next best thing for me after spending the time with loved ones. It really sucks to be alone, BUT there's nothing worse than feeling alone with someone else present... I'll also listen to the following song: "let us make a brand new start. Separate and STAY APART!" Ha! Well, when you put it that way -- I guess I agree! If, on the other hand, your friend and her family MIGHT be enjoyable -- I think it would be better to get out of the house.
notmakingsense Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 It sounds like you are taking on the burden of your ex's issues. He has the commitment problem- stop internalizing his flaws and making them your problem. He's always going to do the push-pull thing with the women in his life, and there isn't anything you can do or say to stop that. And you must recognize his deep insecurity- anyone that can't handle a little confrontation or healthy criticism isn't very secure with who they are. It sounds as if he's quite skilled at making you feel guilty. Once you fully understand that it's him- not you, with the problem, you'll be able to look at your relationship with this guy with a better perspective. I've been where you are. Dated someone who wasn't capable of making a healthy real connection with anyone. And for a time I too internalized his lack of commitment to me and a problem within me. So I walked around blaming myself, stuck on blaming myself, focused on the "what if I had done this differently"... But the bottom line was/is that he is the one with the problem. You can take this time to work on yourself. Build the confidence and self esteem that is lacking. Join a gym, or a social network that allows you to meet new people. Take advantage of your friend at work- she obviously cares about you. It might also be a great way to meet a new guy! So, work on what you need to work on, but don't take on the burden of your ex's issues as your own. You really do need to cut him loose, he's always going to be a negative influence on your life. It's time to cut the cord and meet new people- put yourself out there! D D-Lish summarizes this very well. We all have similar issues, don't we? Trying to cut ourselves off from people who are toxic to us.
Author MagnoliaJane Posted December 13, 2006 Author Posted December 13, 2006 NMS, it seems you have come to terms with the reality of your relationship and are moving on pretty well... That is great. Just curious, your last paragraph made me wonder if you have already met that higher caliber person and that's what helping you to move on?
Author MagnoliaJane Posted December 13, 2006 Author Posted December 13, 2006 I find myself coping pretty well when I have no news from him. I have to do quite some avoidance work though, because we work at the same place. I'm not going to the holiday staff party, I'm skipping staff meetings, and I don't go to certain parts of the building if I know he could be there. I'm doing fine when he's out of the picture... But whenever he emails me, I am drawn to reply. Because not replying is rather childish. And his emails are never about emotional stuff. A comment on how he's been doing and a short "hope you are fine", or a "looking forward to see you", or a question. So then my mind works like this: I care for him, I genuinly miss his presence, it would be nice to keep in touch. Seems like the time/distance thing transforms my previous hurt into a longing for earlier good moments during which things were wonderful, sweet, and passionate. That's a self-lie. He's already looking for other women. It's as simply as that. I read his yahoo-profile yesterday. I always avoided looking for that, and I am not into on-line dating myself. But on Monday I forced myself to sit down and confront reality. The image he has always held up in front of me ("I'm a very hard working scientist and now I am only going to dedicate time towards finishing my book 24/7") crumbled. I read the lines he wrote to present himself and who he's looking for and it were exactly those lines he whispered in my ears about two years ago. How's that for being totally exchangable? I may be a critical mind but not judgemental, and he knows that very well. He could have told me he's out fishing for women if that is the truth. I would not fall apart hearing that. But instead he prefers to play the martyr and the victim of my criticism and omit the women part. While I make a fool of myself excusing every time for upsetting him when I say something he doesn't like to hear and for being too analytical. I have to hold on to these thoughts so that next time when he writes I will be able to make a less naive decision. He's simply not who he claims to be. While I embrace the fact that we are all humans and that our flaws are universal (and as such should be embraced instead of judged upon), there are two core values that I hold very high: honesty and openness. He pretends to holds these standards very high too, but he is neither very honest nor open. That realization is hurting like hell now...
notmakingsense Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 NMS, it seems you have come to terms with the reality of your relationship and are moving on pretty well... That is great. Just curious, your last paragraph made me wonder if you have already met that higher caliber person and that's what helping you to move on? No, not yet. Its been too soon since the last break for me to be out looking. BUT, I know from past experience and studying human nature that people with high self esteem have healthier relationships and attract higher quality people. Quality people won't stay attracted to people with low self esteem for the really long term.
notmakingsense Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 I find myself coping pretty well when I have no news from him. I have to do quite some avoidance work though, because we work at the same place. I'm not going to the holiday staff party, I'm skipping staff meetings, and I don't go to certain parts of the building if I know he could be there. I'm doing fine when he's out of the picture... Ouch, I didn't remember that you worked at the same place... that is tough! It is unfortunate, but it is the best approach until you are fully over him. At that point, seeing him won't bother you -- but it may bother him if he sees you out and about having fun! But whenever he emails me, I am drawn to reply. Because not replying is rather childish. And his emails are never about emotional stuff. A comment on how he's been doing and a short "hope you are fine", or a "looking forward to see you", or a question. So then my mind works like this: I care for him, I genuinly miss his presence, it would be nice to keep in touch. Seems like the time/distance thing transforms my previous hurt into a longing for earlier good moments during which things were wonderful, sweet, and passionate. That's a self-lie. I don't agree that it is childish to not respond if you are the hurt party... he will understand why you aren't replying. HOWEVER, I would recommend that you first wait a day or two before replying, then never include emotional stuff yourself, and avoid answering personal questions. If he asks you personal questions, a witty remark that doesn't give him an answer is best. Leaving him with the impression that he is just a work acquaintance to you now will help you improve your self-esteem. He's already looking for other women. It's as simply as that. I read his yahoo-profile yesterday. I always avoided looking for that, and I am not into on-line dating myself. But on Monday I forced myself to sit down and confront reality. The image he has always held up in front of me ("I'm a very hard working scientist and now I am only going to dedicate time towards finishing my book 24/7") crumbled. I read the lines he wrote to present himself and who he's looking for and it were exactly those lines he whispered in my ears about two years ago. How's that for being totally exchangable? I may be a critical mind but not judgemental, and he knows that very well. He could have told me he's out fishing for women if that is the truth. I would not fall apart hearing that. But instead he prefers to play the martyr and the victim of my criticism and omit the women part. While I make a fool of myself excusing every time for upsetting him when I say something he doesn't like to hear and for being too analytical. This must have been painful for you -- but you are right, it definitely served the purpose of telling you exactly where he is at with his relationship to you. My opinion, based upon the above is that he wants to date other women, but wants to "innocently" ping you from time to time to see if he can keep you on a loose leash. This should piss you off! Work hard at separating more and indirectly he'll find out you are moving on. This will make you feel better! I have to hold on to these thoughts so that next time when he writes I will be able to make a less naive decision. He's simply not who he claims to be. While I embrace the fact that we are all humans and that our flaws are universal (and as such should be embraced instead of judged upon), there are two core values that I hold very high: honesty and openness. He pretends to holds these standards very high too, but he is neither very honest nor open. That realization is hurting like hell now... That's perfect. Keep reminding yourself of who he truly is. I actually keep a document handy that lists out all the reasons why my exgf is not good for me. Whenever I experience a weak moment, I bring that document up on my computer (I have at work and at home), and I spend time scanning it and even editing/adding to it!
Author MagnoliaJane Posted December 13, 2006 Author Posted December 13, 2006 D... I follow your reasoning completely. It's not at all healthy to stay stuck in the hurt. That's more or less where I am now and I don't like it one bit. The guilt-thing is a pretty complex trap though. I can be very social (in fact I have to be for my work as a social scientist ) but after work I just like to go home and ideally be with my SO, even if we do things not necessarily together. I don't like the "putting myself out there on the market" too much. It's just not how I see myself meeting someone. The whole dating-thing is so different from how we meet someone in Europe, which is more casual and with less expectations. It's not the "let's test this one out" approach. Probably I see this one too critical also, heh Yes, I do like to do stuff a lot like going to musea, camping, hiking, seeing movies, dancing. It would be great to have a couple of friends here in the city to do just that, with no expectations... I think, the problem is, the people I've met so far, friends and lovers, have always sought me out, and not the other way around. So, that's one of my flaws I think. It's just feels like starting with that now, at age 37, is like climbing a mountain. Or... I'd rather climb a mountain... Sure I went through all the college partying, but to say I was really into it? Nah...
D-Lish Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 I'm at the same stage in life. 37 Years old, was married before (divorced for 4 years now), and am just wanting to meet someone that completes me, that takes me away from the bar scene (yuck). I do enjoy the gym though. I just joined about a month ago, and it's been a good social network. I'm lucky to have a great group of friends- but as much as I love spending time with them, they are mostly married and with children... so that doesn't leave me with much in common with them! The man I just broke up with was pretty special. I thought he was going to be that guy I could depend on and spend my life with... but I know now that he isn't that guy. It doesn't sound like your ex is the man for you either. I keep reminding myself that it's better to be alone than to settle with the wrong person. :-) D
Tormented Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 Oh, Magnolia...I completely understand where you're coming from, you know I do. They say it's a mistake to appoint one person the center of your life, and I agree - it is a mistake, but it's so easy to do when you spend so much time with that one person. Soon, you find yourself not wanting to spend time with anybody else BUT him. Like you, I went into a self-inflicted isolation. It's been 4 months now and I'm just NOW starting to rejoin the living. And even now, I have to force myself. I really don't like the person I've become since the breakup. I'm more irritable, less patient, more cynical about life in general. And there are days that if I could step outside of myself, I would. The complete emptiness I feel sometimes is overwhelming. And all I feel is sadness. But that can't go on forever. If it does, you might as well lay down because you're already dead. Life is NOT over, it will and does go on...with or without you. This is something I keep telling myself. The setback you've had because you did see your ex is exactly why I'm avoiding a meeting with mine. It's a real tug-o'-war with me. A large part of me wants to see him, tell him how I feel, the hell he's put me through. But another part of me warns of the risks in doing so, and asks if what I'll gain by seeing him is worth the lingering pain as a result. And on and on it goes. I go out now and then. I've even been on a few dates. They didn't help. In fact, sometimes they made me miss my ex worse. So, I don't date right now. I'm not ready. Instead, I go out with a few friends now and then and find that I'm enjoying myself...DESPITE myself. I have also thrown myself in to hobbies I enjoy and am making great strides in it. And here lately, when I laugh...I can actually FEEL that laughter rather than faking it. Slowly...very slowly...it gets better. But I think it's harder when you see your ex. NC for me has helped. It's been a very slow and painful process, but I'm starting to see a flicker of light at the end of this dark tunnel. I still have a way to go, I know this. But I do take SOME pleasure in knowing that I will eventually "get there." And so will you. Chin up, girl. We're all in this together. (((Magnolia))) ~T~
Lostgurl Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 . When I say something, it is because the frustration has grown so much, that I can't ignore it anymore (like about his former drinking problem, or his desire to buy a whole apartment building when he is in so much debt). And I try to explain it as careful as I can, with a lot of hesitation and stumbling over my words. But now I understand he exclusively wants to hear good things about himself. I mean, what kind of a reality is that? He himself is allowed to be angry, call his friend an *******, tell his 73-year old mother that she must take the bus instead of the car when she comes to pick him up at the airport because of global warming issues (I answered him you can't force someone into your believes which he dismissed). He broke up with me twice with no explanation but keeps coming back after a few months and I don't hold the breakups against him. Then he asks for a date on which I agree and next thing he writes me a few hours before that he will not be meeting me on the train because he doesn't feel fine after our phone call. Still, I can't help feeling guilty about myself and my critical nature. Apparently I don't express my love well enough, or maybe not enough. I am not a "light" person. I take everything pretty seriously. Still, on the other hand, I stood by him in difficult times and have always been willing to talk things out, no matter how long it took. His reaction was always the same, to distance himself from me, or send me home to think about "my behavior" until he decided it was time to come back. After the last breakup I did not make any effort to talk to him for 3 months, and all of a sudden there was his email inviting me to the movies. I feel like I am in chaos right now and the amount of selfdoubt is so deep that I would like to dig a hole and stay in there for the next couple of months. I really feel like a horrible person who is unable to make someone else happy. On the other hand there are these thoughts "don't be pathetic and get your act together". Everything seems to contradict. I am so confused. It begins with me telling him I don't agree with something, or don't like something, and him calling it off and holding a mirror in front of me about my flaws. And that's where the interaction ends. With me. And what I've done wrong. So, where do I go from here? How to move forward with a more positive mind and as a better person? How to get over all those rejections that seem to cut more deep each time? I would really like to keep something positive from the end of this relationship, but each time this seems to be more impossible and it depresses me deeply. Honey you sound sooo sweet and you don't deserve this treatment at all! This man sounds like he has a heart of ice, and the only time it warms, is when he takes a look in this mirror. Just remember that when he finally wakes up from his self involved world he'll be ever soo sorry that he missed out on you. You have done everything in your power to help and support this guy, but to no avail he is still selfish and mean.. Its good that you have not given him any other strings to pull since you two have split.
D-Lish Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 I guess it's all about seperating the head from the heart. The logical part of us knows that someone isn't who they pretend to be, yet the heart still longs for them. Even the most intelligent and rational people can fall victim to this dilemma. I think my past mistakes and poor choices make me wiser when I enter into the next relationship, but I still get caught up in chemistry and ignore the red flags. You don't have to answer his e-mails, you don't owe him anything at this point. D
Author MagnoliaJane Posted December 14, 2006 Author Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks everybody for support! LS is what is keeping me upright these days... Today I'm having a really bad day... I can't believe how upset I am still. So much so that again I am waking up in the early mornings and haven't been able to eat anything substantial since Sunday. I am telling myself to get my act together over and over again and this morning started preparing my lunch. But then I smelled the fish and actually ran to the bathroom and threw up (an no I'm NOT pregnant or it should be divine). It's just the stress... Yesterday I got into an argument with my mom over the phone when I told her I am not going to the holiday staff party so I would not have to face up to him. I don't understand any of this myself. It's not that I have never been through breakups before. I've been reading everybody's stories on here and I understand bad things happen to so many of us. Things much, much worse are happening in the world. Yet here I am with that feeling of being pushed and pulled, crushed and humiliated (man when he said that night after my comment that he seemed hostile "oh, are you feeling neglected?") and confronted with an anger inside me I didn't know I had... and when I see him I can't utter one word.
Lostgurl Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 Thanks everybody for support! LS is what is keeping me upright these days... Today I'm having a really bad day... I can't believe how upset I am still. So much so that again I am waking up in the early mornings and haven't been able to eat anything substantial since Sunday. I am telling myself to get my act together over and over again and this morning started preparing my lunch. But then I smelled the fish and actually ran to the bathroom and threw up (an no I'm NOT pregnant or it should be divine). It's just the stress... Yesterday I got into an argument with my mom over the phone when I told her I am not going to the holiday staff party so I would not have to face up to him. I don't understand any of this myself. It's not that I have never been through breakups before. I've been reading everybody's stories on here and I understand bad things happen to so many of us. Things much, much worse are happening in the world. Yet here I am with that feeling of being pushed and pulled, crushed and humiliated (man when he said that night after my comment that he seemed hostile "oh, are you feeling neglected?") and confronted with an anger inside me I didn't know I had... and when I see him I can't utter one word. Magnolia, Just take one step at a time... Today is hard. Tomorrow may be hard also. Just remember that as time passes, your heart will heal, and you will eventually find someone that deserves you. The days will get better and your smile will return. Just keep your self busy, and if you find you can't concentrate on your studies, try having a long hot bath to relax or read an uplifting book, and then get back at 'er Hang in there and take care, Lost
spring123 Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 Magnolia Hey, you have to stop this pain for yourself. I re-read your thread and just noticed that your guy is already posting personals, and looking for other women. This, really is not worth it! At least this was not the case in my situation. I do not want to make you feel worse, but you have to stop this for yourself. You're worth so much more. You're intelligent, well written, and you have depth! Now here is the trick. Sometimes life has to break you before you can have a new start. I had an encounter with my guy a few days ago. It went bad (we never had this kind of bad encounter before), and with that I felt I can finally move on and cut him off. Our situation is unique, we had circumstance issue (which I don't want to go through here), but at the end, I value so much what he and me had, but he apparently he does not. I acted weak when we parted the night, he was cold, I was teary. Looking back, why was I so weak? But I'm not going to beat myself up as I'm a human being with emotions and that was someone so special to me. But his coldness also was a closure for me. Now I can finally move on. I still miss him, but maybe I'm missing the one I fell for, the one who was so sweet and passionate for me, not this cold person that he presented right now. Yes I felt bad, as I could have walked away when he came back and called me all the time, in stead I accepted him back again and again now this. But the past is past, I'm just going to look into the future. I do feel sense of loss - it feels nice to have someone you feel for and care for so strongly, but I have to let it go. Maybe feeling and love are over-rated, after all, haha! The point I'm trying to make is that sometimes things have to go bad before you can release yourself from the past. That's what that last night with him did for me. Magnolia, you have to be good to yourself. Is it possible for you to get a job in another firm?
D-Lish Posted December 14, 2006 Posted December 14, 2006 I'm sure the smart girl in you knows that everything you are feeling is normal, and actually necessary to get over this. Okay, working in the same building together...that is a pain in the ass. I don't think you're doing the wrong thing by avoiding him. Not going to the x-mas party isn't a big deal, I actually agree with you that if you're trying to get over him, that you shouldn't go. However, you're life can't stop because of him either, so make sure you do something else fun that evening so you're not just sitting at home upset. He's an ass. You know this to be true. You also know that he can never make you truly happy. He's proven that over and over again. But if you don't start putting yourself out there, you won't be able to meet someone that will make you happy. Rejection can do a number on our ego. Right now you have to start restoring your self esteem and confidence. Hope you're having a better day today! D
Ruff Ryder Posted December 15, 2006 Posted December 15, 2006 Whats up all? Sorry I havent bee aroud much of late been a mad couple of weeks. Getting back to the post. D-lish makes a great point in her last post. Keep in mind there are always 2 ways to look at things. You can sit back and feel bad about what happened and feel lost doing it OR you can remember that you are a person and life sometimes doesnt go your way but your a great person and youlove and need love in return. With that said its more than likly his loss. You sound like an intreasting lady so it is his loss. Take your ego out of the pic and just say to yourself he lost you, you didnt lose him. There are diffrent types of losses. Breaking up with some one is bad but there is a sininger called "james taylor" he sings a song called fire and rain. The story of the song is about his fiance that was killed in a plane crash. Now put it into perspective you lost someone whom is alive and well imagen lossing someone that you had no controll over the way it happened. No phone call to say sorry no second chance to see them again. Surethat is harsh to say but think about it. Everyone situation is hard and bad but imagen lossing the one you love to something that bad. Get the song Fire and rain- James taylor and listen to the words its beautifull but so sad. All Im really saying is if you still breathing there is always the chance that you will love again. Feel the freedom and live for the next chance cause there always will be one. Hold on tight and live thats all there is to do. Im sorry to hear about your situation but you have the chance to feel love again so go out there and do it love. Have a good one. Ruff ryder
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