JamesM Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Now we are getting into the "is porn okay?" issue again. I can see both sides, but I think I better understand why you would have the desire to look at nude women. You get turned on...plain and simple. That is probably a good thing, yes? I would have been more concerned if your concern was that you were turned on by naked men. Then you have bigger concernes seeing that you are married to a woman. However, if it takes away your interest in having sex with your wife, then you need to sit back and see why. Personally, I would think that looking at najed women would get you hot enough to chase you dear wife down for satisfaction. Rainfall, I do hope you figure out that men see naked women and are turned on. That in no way means they are interested in doing anything with them if they are in a relationship. Men are turned on by visual images. And I think it is great that you want to keep your bf looking at your body...please keep him doing so. I guarantee if you understand his need for sex and intimacy, he will focus on you. But if you ever decide to lose interest in sex, please understand why he suddenly develops an interest in looking at naked women...rather than looking elsewhere for another woman for his satisfaction. Then you may actually be okay with the idea. Just my opinion.
Guest Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 make her feel bad Nobody can 'make' anybody else feel anything. People who don't take responsibility for their own brains, thoughts, and ideas are pitiful. You choose what to believe. You happen to have chosen to believe that men look at porn due to some lack in you. You could as easily choose to believe any number of other things - even (gasp!) the truth - but you don't. That's nobody's fault but your own.
rainfall Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Rainfall, I do hope you figure out that men see naked women and are turned on. That in no way means they are interested in doing anything with them if they are in a relationship. Men are turned on by visual images. And I think it is great that you want to keep your bf looking at your body...please keep him doing so. I guarantee if you understand his need for sex and intimacy, he will focus on you. But if you ever decide to lose interest in sex, please understand why he suddenly develops an interest in looking at naked women...rather than looking elsewhere for another woman for his satisfaction. Then you may actually be okay with the idea. Just my opinion. Hey, if I ever decide to stop having sex or working hard to look good for my bf and he wants to look at porn then I would see why. However when I work hard to look good for him and we have alot of sex I would find it very insulting for him to look at other women.
Lennox Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Here here Rainfall! And don't forget about us lesser physically attractive women that have absolutely no sexual limits on activities, inputs and other things just as long as they don't involve other people or animals!
CrushedOrgans Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Which probably makes you like most women. But guess what? STILL DIFFERENT THAN MOST MEN!!! Men can easily be sexually attracted to a woman they just met. Men can be sexually aroused by the image on a page or TV of a complete stranger. It's instinctively hardwired into our puny, little brains It's how we act (or don't act) on that thought that is the learned behaviour. Mr. Lucky okay, but that's not what i was talking about. i never claimed women are the same as men, and to think so is silly. my point is that not all women cream themselves over celebrities just because it is believed that is what women want. that's all. you're arguing with me about a separate issue that i have not dsicussed, nor do i care to.
CrushedOrgans Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Yeah imagine that. Could it be because I'm menstruating? Just because I'm not an insanely jealous freak out maniac when men look at women doesn't mean I'm not one. You think Mustang Sally's a guy? why would i think anything about mustang sally? i answered a post from 'guest'. and guess what? not even another woman knows and can speak for all other women, so your point, well i guess i don't really know what it is.
rainfall Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Yeah imagine that. Could it be because I'm menstruating? Just because I'm not an insanely jealous freak out maniac when men look at women doesn't mean I'm not one. You think Mustang Sally's a guy? Great for you. You have no problem with your man imagining that he is sleeping with other women. However some people find it to be wrong and it doesn't make them an insane jealous freak.
Trialbyfire Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 *shrugs* Who cares about porn women? Just as long as it's not the freaky stuff or there's no emotional or physical connection, I could care less. I also subscribe to the school of "men are visual". If you ever see a guy with his g/f, s/o or wife while they're shopping, no matter how hot their women are, the guys are looking at other women and the girls are looking at clothes... I also like the look of Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp and George Clooney. Would I ever masturbate to them? Ummm....nope, not interested, but I can still look and appreciate because I'm not dead.
alphamale Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 I also subscribe to the school of "men are visual". Women are also just a visual as men are but in a more covert and indirect way. Trust me, if theres a good looking dude in the room, the women will know about it.
lindya Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Thanks for the opinions and reality check. I understand that my wife feels aweful about this. "He looks at naked women, am I not good enough?" That type of thinking. I'll admit, I feel very insecure all the time too and question myself. I just want to put her mind at ease. I know what it feels like to feel jealous and insecure. I don't want her to ever feel like I feel at times. I think my actions have made her insecure. I just wish there was some way I could explain things to make her feel better. I guess we have some work to do. First on ourselves, then together. I've read so many arguments on this board making definitive statements about how porn does or doesn't change the way men view their partners....but who among us really knows what goes on in another person's mind? Life is full of people soothing with white lies, or creating turbulence with deliberately harshly worded "truths". Only you know for sure whether porn use is altering the way you perceive your partner for the worse. Whether you secretly wish she had bigger breasts, neater labia or a "Brazilian" like the women in the films have, If these thoughts are crossing your mind, if masturbating to porn feels better than having sex with your wife, then your partner isn't being insecure - she's perceiving the situation accurately, and your porn use is creating or worsening problems. If however it isn't changing the way you view her, then her insecurity is the thing to be focused on. I guess you need to first of all be absolutely clear with yourself about how you really feel (as opposed to just how you think you should feel).
Mr. Lucky Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 You have no problem with your man imagining that he is sleeping with other women. Rainfall, do you masturbate? And if yes, what do you imagine while doing so? I'd have a hard time believing that it's only your SO Mr. Lucky
Pink_Tulip Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Garvis, as in all of these porn threads, you can listen to the many people who will come in with the self righteous attitude of: it's her problem, let her deal with it. She can't control you, she is insecure, blah blah blah. And certainly, if that is how you choose to deal with the problem, you will get to continue to look at your porn, while slowly destroying your marriage. Your choice. This isn't about anyone else in the world but you and your wife. You need to work it out with her, and not go into it with, 'well everyone else said its ok.' Talk to her about it, and work out a compromise that you both can agree on. I don't recall if you have children or not. If you don't, and this issue is that big of a deal breaker for her, but you choose to continue, it would probably be best to end the marriage and find someone else you are both more compatible with. Really, this is something that needs to be discussed before marriage, as it greatly affects so many marriages negatively. And for the record, there are many women who don't like porn b/c of moral or religious issues, and are still very secure. Don't get sucked into that nonsensical arguemnt.
rainfall Posted December 10, 2006 Posted December 10, 2006 Rainfall, do you masturbate? And if yes, what do you imagine while doing so? I'd have a hard time believing that it's only your SO Mr. Lucky Thats fine if you don't believe me. Yes, I do masturbate. I do not think of anyone esle besides my SO ever. I either don't really think of anything or I think of him. Sorry, thinking about someone esle is not something I want in my relationship.
Author garvis Posted December 11, 2006 Author Posted December 11, 2006 I think that the only thing that matters is that I made my wife feel bad about looking at naked women. She doesn't understand why I would do that when I can be with her. I understand that and I don't have a real answer. I love her, therefore I don't want to ever make her feel bad about this again. I know I would feel bad if she told me she thinks of an ex while masturbating. I would think to myself that "I'm not good enough for her". An that's that. We all have our feelings and they are what they are. And at this time, the thought of looking at any naked women besides my wife sickens me.
Jeffrey Posted December 13, 2006 Posted December 13, 2006 She doesn't understand why I would do that when I can be with her. I understand that and I don't have a real answer. /QUOTE] Why should you even give an answer? If this how you masturbate, then that's how you masturbate. So long as you're not choosing it over having sex with her, it's none of her business. If a guy chooses to use porn to masturbate, it's highly unlikely that's going to change.
hrtingsobd Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 While reading this I became very upset. I'll tell you why. (As if you want to know! ) You sounded just like my very recent ex. He moved out 2 weeks ago due to an issue he has with porn. Please note, while I am sure I will get bashed by many over my own insecurities, I am aware that I have a body image issue. Everything you said sounded like it came out of his mouth verbatim. Please let me say, that while SOME of you try to put the issue of porn addiction off on the woman because "Men just do that!", I take offense to this. Just because someone is of a certain gender does not excuse bad behavior. I like to shop till I drop and that is something that "Women Do". But let me run up a $50,000 credit card bill and y'all would be saying I have some sort of impulse control issue or something of the sort. My bfr and I watched porn a lot together. I enjoyed porn a great deal. I have a tremendous sexual appetite. I am very in tune with my own sexuality. I did not see an issue with porn until I realized how much my bfr watched it even when I was not around. I asked him in SEPT. to refrain from watching it without me. I explained that this made me feel insecure because I am not 18 with DDD breasts and I feel that that is what he likes because he watches porn so much. It also made me feel like I had to be a porn star in bed to turn him on. Lord knows I am into some pretty wild things but I wanted to be into them because it turns me on instead of feeling like I had to be an actress in some porn movie. Hopefully that makese senst to someone out there! lol Anyway, I asked him to only watch porns with me because of these feelings. I also told him that he did not need to do this if he was resentful but I chose not to be in a relationship that made me feel bad about myself. It was his choice. I found the porn again at the end of Oct. I told him to leave because he did not respect me or my feelings. He said he would quit. 2 weeks ago, I found it again dated at least every other day sometimes more for over 2-3 hours per day since Sept. I was so PI**** you can not even imagine. I felt betrayed and hurt and he lied everytime he got onto the websites and downloaded those movies knowing how I felt about them. For someone who loves me so much, they should have respected my feelings. I wonder do I truly even know him because of the "secrets" or did I just love what I thought was him. He has admitted a problem and is seeking counseling. He also went to his pastor (I don't attend regularly, at all) to get help. He is living with his mom with no computer access. I refuse to be in a relationship with an addict (my dad is an alcoholic so I am familiar w/cycles, etc.) I think your wife may just feel like she doesn't know ALL of you. That maybe you have hidden part of yourself from her. She may think that is what you want and not her....because she is probably not build like a porn star either (most women aren't that is why they make the big $$$). I would imagine that she feels inadequate and like she is not enough because she thinks that is what you want and she can't compete. I know that each of us needs to feel like we are enough for someone. when you look at other women, there is a part of her that wants to be the only woman that you look at (logically knowing that you will look on the street) but she probably loves you so much that she wants to be your everthing and feels like she is not or you wouldn't need to look there. Sorry so long.....I just wanted to give you insight as to what she may be feeling because I am feeling those things as I live and breathe. I am gonna post this asking for help on the issues of Do I believe he can change? How am I able to trust him again? Where do I draw the line and say that is it, this is the 3rd time you have lied....no more? Or can he truly change? Any advise on this thread would be appreciated as well....but I don't want to hog your input garvin. I would love your opinion garvin as you sound like my bfr in all ways.
tommyr Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 hrtingsobd, Clearly your boyfriend has lied (by telling you he would stop viewing porn) so thats definitely a problem in my book! But for a moment, lets ignore the "lying" problem, and focus instead on the porn issue: lets imagine your boyfriend now regularly masturbates with porn, on almost daily basis. Does his masturbation offend you? Or is it just the porn use that offends you? I really hope you are only offended by the porn, because that could be fixable (while I would say its 100% impossible to prevent a healthy male from masturbating). So your boyfriend has asked for some help/counseling to deal with the issue. Are you willing to help him in this? If so, lets expore possible ways you might help: Obviously the 2 of you (who formerly enjoyed watching porn together) can no longer watch porn AT ALL, EVER AGAIN. Does all porn use offend you, or only certain kinds of (harcore) porn? Is there any non-offensive form of "masturbation material" your husband might use instead? Have you tried having quickie-sex, without a long emotional and romantic buildup, on a daily basis as masturbation replacement? Please dont be offended by this next topic: I am not trying to push your boyfriends problems onto you! You mentioned having a "body image issue" so it makes me wonder why that is different now from before. Has your body actually changed drastically since your relationship began in ways that are controllable (ie, large weight gain, or even a medium weight gain accompanied by behavior change like cancelling the gym membership)?
Author garvis Posted December 18, 2006 Author Posted December 18, 2006 While reading this I became very upset. I'll tell you why. (As if you want to know! ) You sounded just like my very recent ex. I would love your opinion garvin as you sound like my bfr in all ways. It's tough thing to figure out. I do believe, however, that if I felt more confident in myself I wouldn't be drawn to pleasing myself in this way. First of all, my wife told me about a sexual encounter she had shortly before I met her. She commented that "he was really big"...now that's been stuck in my head for years. Maybe it's irrational, but I do feel like less of a man for being merely average. Sometimes that thought makes really intimacy hard for me - I just want to run away from that. Secondly, my wife had sex quite a bit more than I ever did before we met. Again, for whatever reason, it makes me feel bad about myself. Would I feel better about this if I had equal sexual experience? I don't know. Maybe pleasing myself to images of women somehow is an "equalizer"? I'm not saying it's right, but I'm trying to think this through. But it is absolutely true that nothing can replace the love I have for my wife. Nothing can replace how beautiful it is when we are together. I don't really know what else to say. I think both my wife and I have self image issues. And I think it's wrong to automatically assume that someone is addicted to porn, or that they are deviant in some way for looking at it. I do think that it can be an outlet for people who don't feel good about themselves and/or have trouble with intimacy at times. No one person is the same. No one thing will solve everyone's issues. I don't know. I wish you well.
Mr. Lucky Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 My bfr and I watched porn a lot together. I enjoyed porn a great deal. I have a tremendous sexual appetite. I am very in tune with my own sexuality. I did not see an issue with porn until I realized how much my bfr watched it even when I was not around. I asked him in SEPT. to refrain from watching it without me. I explained that this made me feel insecure because I am not 18 with DDD breasts and I feel that that is what he likes because he watches porn so much. If your concern is that your BF may acquire an unrealistic standard of appearance - "18 with DDD breasts" - and performance - "I had to be a porn star in bed", then why was it OK for him to watch alot of porn with you? Don't the actresses look the same whether you're there or not? Don't they do the same things? How does your presence viewing beside him change any of that? Mr. Lucky
Madeamistake Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 Garvis, as in all of these porn threads, you can listen to the many people who will come in with the self righteous attitude of: it's her problem, let her deal with it. She can't control you, she is insecure, blah blah blah. And certainly, if that is how you choose to deal with the problem, you will get to continue to look at your porn, while slowly destroying your marriage. Your choice. This isn't about anyone else in the world but you and your wife. You need to work it out with her, and not go into it with, 'well everyone else said its ok.' Talk to her about it, and work out a compromise that you both can agree on. I don't recall if you have children or not. If you don't, and this issue is that big of a deal breaker for her, but you choose to continue, it would probably be best to end the marriage and find someone else you are both more compatible with. Really, this is something that needs to be discussed before marriage, as it greatly affects so many marriages negatively. And for the record, there are many women who don't like porn b/c of moral or religious issues, and are still very secure. Don't get sucked into that nonsensical arguemnt. The best advice I have read today. I think the essence of relationships as well as marriage is to find a partner that really fullfills your desires. I am not one for porn so this is my .2cents. I think it makes you find faults in the partner you chose, in an indirect manner, idk. You start to think, "wow the girl in that xxx mag has bigger breasts than my wife and I like that, what if my wife had those, she would look so much better... And be careful though! You will start to create the ideal woman other than your wife in an indirect manner, this can lead to so many problems other than what you are experiencing now. One example would be, maybe you will end up not finding you wife as sexually attractive as you used to, which could lead to other problems... Well maybe Im just projecting. JMHO!
Madeamistake Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 It's tough thing to figure out. I do believe, however, that if I felt more confident in myself I wouldn't be drawn to pleasing myself in this way. First of all, my wife told me about a sexual encounter she had shortly before I met her. She commented that "he was really big"...now that's been stuck in my head for years. Maybe it's irrational, but I do feel like less of a man for being merely average. Sometimes that thought makes really intimacy hard for me - I just want to run away from that. Secondly, my wife had sex quite a bit more than I ever did before we met. Again, for whatever reason, it makes me feel bad about myself. Would I feel better about this if I had equal sexual experience? I don't know. Maybe pleasing myself to images of women somehow is an "equalizer"? I'm not saying it's right, but I'm trying to think this through. But it is absolutely true that nothing can replace the love I have for my wife. Nothing can replace how beautiful it is when we are together. I don't really know what else to say. I think both my wife and I have self image issues. And I think it's wrong to automatically assume that someone is addicted to porn, or that they are deviant in some way for looking at it. I do think that it can be an outlet for people who don't feel good about themselves and/or have trouble with intimacy at times. No one person is the same. No one thing will solve everyone's issues. I don't know. I wish you well. O.k I had not read this post! Please ignore me!lol!
JamesM Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 Garvis, I don't know how often you watched porn or how often your wife and you had sex, but I think there is a happy middle ground. If she is not wanting sex as often as you like...there are exceptions...then you need a release. If porn helps you, then so be it. However, if you are using porn as your sex rather than engaging in lovemaking with her, then she has very legitimate concerns. She commented that "he was really big"...now that's been stuck in my head for years. Maybe it's irrational, but I do feel like less of a man for being merely average. How many years? And have you talked with your wife about this? Maybe "big" to her was an observation...not how she always wanted a man. Women say things that do not necessarily mean that they want them. For instance, if your wife stated that her last boyfriend had a big belly, would you assume that she wanted you to gain weight? Or if she stated that he had a hook nose, what would you assume your nose was inferior? But here since YOU assume that a bigger penis is better, is that why you think SHE assumes bigger is better...or has she said that bigger is better? my wife had sex quite a bit more than I ever did before we met. Again, for whatever reason, it makes me feel bad about myself. Would I feel better about this if I had equal sexual experience? I don't know. Has she made comments about the wonderful sex she had before you or have you assumed that it was all wonderful? Or do you think that during sex, she is comparing you to previous lovers? I can see why you would feel bad, because you would assume that since she has more experience, then she thinks you are not doing a "good job" at sex. Has she ever made comments about the great sex she has had, or has she ever compared you to previous experiences? If she has, then maybe this is something that needs to be discussed. So, "looking at naked women" may be a result of your sexual insecurities...or it may simply be a visual portrayal for use during manual stimulation.
Author garvis Posted December 19, 2006 Author Posted December 19, 2006 All good points. It's not an easy thing to figure out. I know my wife loves me. There has never been any infidelity on either side. She has told me many times that I am "the best lover in the world". I believe she feels that way. But for some reason, I cannot get images of her with another person out of my head. Especially when she described him as "really big". Logically I should not be concerned with this. But the thoughts drive me crazy because when I think about it, it seems as if it's happening now, not 10 years ago. I really trying to rid myself of it. I think pleasing myself sexually (with or without visual aids) helps me to put the emphasis on ME. It helps me to temporarily forget about "those" thoughts. After all, we all need to love ourselves. You cannot love anyone else if you can't do that. These are rationalizations. Did I engage in this behavior before my wife? Sure, sometimes. But I honestly can say that looking at nudie pictures after that served a different purpose. I guess to put the focus back on myself. This may be an avoidance tactic.... I dunno. And one other thing: do most of you think of naked pictures of people as porn? When I say naked pictures, I mean no sexual activity in the pictures. Usually pics of people alone. This is what I have been talking about...so I don't think my wife is all that interested in that.
JamesM Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 And one other thing: do most of you think of naked pictures of people as porn? When I say naked pictures, I mean no sexual activity in the pictures. Usually pics of people alone. This is what I have been talking about...so I don't think my wife is all that interested in that. Porn includes just naked women to sexual activity. Nudies are soft porn. And yes, I can see why your wife has little interest in them. Do you enjoy looking at naked men? Sometimes I think that naked women alone is more demeaning to the wife than sexual activity. Strange as that sounds...when one gets excited from watching two people go at it, then he or she is focusing on the whole scene. When you look at a naked woman, you focus on her looks and features. Then you can easier compare your wife to the women you most "love" to look at. As all men, you probably have favorites..bigger breasts, larger butts, blonde or brunette, etc. If she is lacking or is different in any of these areas, she may feel offended. However, when she sees that you watch the activity, she may quicker think that sexual activity appeals to you more than a particular woman. As pinktulip said, it is what the two of you like or dislikes that matters.
Author garvis Posted December 19, 2006 Author Posted December 19, 2006 And yes, I can see why your wife has little interest in them. Do you enjoy looking at naked men? Sometimes I think that naked women alone is more demeaning to the wife than sexual activity. Strange as that sounds...when one gets excited from watching two people go at it, then he or she is focusing on the whole scene. When you look at a naked woman, you focus on her looks and features. Then you can easier compare your wife to the women you most "love" to look at. As all men, you probably have favorites..bigger breasts, larger butts, blonde or brunette, etc. If she is lacking or is different in any of these areas, she may feel offended. However, when she sees that you watch the activity, she may quicker think that sexual activity appeals to you more than a particular woman. As pinktulip said, it is what the two of you like or dislikes that matters. Nah, I don't like to look at naked men. But my wife has accused me of being gay on more than one occasion. Interesting take on the nudie pictures. I never thought of it from that angle. Thanks for that view. I know I would feel bad if my wife looked at guys w/ big dicks...it would make me feel more self conscious than I already am! Isn't that the bottom line regarding this topic? My goal is not to hurt my wife's feelings, even though I have no emotional stake in looking at nudies. I'm honestly most excited when my wife is cuddling with me. And that is real and what matters.
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