blind_otter Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I just wanted to say that I really admire how you're handling such an emotionally stressful and complex situation.
che_jesse Posted December 21, 2006 Posted December 21, 2006 I really don't understand why your bothering to put in any work into this relationship at all. She obviously does not care about it, why should you? I don't think this is worth the drama, you have only been married for 2 years, I have dated people longer then that. Let it end, it sounds like its meant to. Find someone that can keep there legs closed when they have problems in there life.
Okeydokey Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 DEEK! I just read through this entire thread and have some words for you. A lot of people have advised you to leave your wife - I don't feel like that is a very constructive suggestion nor is "just leaving" a realistic option. After all, disentangling yourself from a marriage takes time and money so this situation is going to follow you around no matter what you decide to do: leave or stay. From all of your posts it sounds like you are asking for suggestions about what to do given that you have not decided (just yet) to exit the relationship... Last semester I took an excellent class in negotiations. Really top knotch. Mostly it was focused on business and lawyering, but the prof also had us focus on our personal relationships. We ALL have a "default" way of reacting to personal conflict and your wife probably knows your default negotiation style. I suggest trying to mix it up a little bit. BE AN ACTIVE LISTENER. Two of our most common problems in resolving disputes is First, we adopt a position - adopting a position prevents you from focusing on the underlying interests and goals (eg. cheating is bad - end of story, I am leaving - end of story). By focusing on your interests and goals you can make a more informed decision. Most of the discussion that I have seen has focused on A. how your wife did a completely wrong thing (I AM NOT ENDORSING WHAT SHE DID) and B. you feel betrayed (I AM COMPLETELY SYMPATHETIC TO THIS FEELING). Both of these are POSITIONS and they are blocking you from getting information about what is really going on. This brings me to the second big problem that blocks effective negotiation. Second, our emotions and egoes become so invested in achieving our desired result that it prevents us from reaching a mutually agreeable settlement. Now, I realize that separating your emotions when the subject of the negotiation is your marriage is a virtually impossible task... Nevertheless, I challenge you to do this as much as possible even if it is just for a few minutes. This will help you see with your conflict with a bit more clarity. With this information under your belt, I suggest the following. Come up with a list of questions for your wife for which you would like answers (I have not heard a lot in these posts about what she is feeling - and that would be helpful information for you in determining how you want to proceed). There are really two issues her: 1. your marriage 2. a baby. Do not let this conversation digress into an argument and try to HEAR everything your wife says to you - as much as you can try to leave your emotions and your position at the door because these will prevent you from hearing and from getting information that will assist you in making YOUR VERY important decision of how to proceed (given that you have made it clear that you have not decided what to do). At the beginning of the conversation it is important to set up procedures - before you start talking. For example, "I have some questions that I feel would really help me figure out how to best handle the situation we have in a way that is good for us. This is what I suggest, I have some questions for you and please try to answer them as completely and honestly as possible. I promise to just listen to your responses. But please try to find sensitive ways of responding to my questions because as much as possible I want genuine truthful answers presented in the least hurtful way possible." Explain that you have drafted some questions and you have tried to write them in the most considerate way possible and that they necessarily touch on difficult issues, so if the wording of one of the questions is poorly worded ask for her to forgive it/overlook it because the real goal is to exchange information. Ok. Now to the questions that you are going to ask your wife. These should be open-ended questions... not "do you still want to be with me? do you want to be with the other man? do you want to have the baby?" Those are close ended questions - they do provide useful information to you, but they don't really get to the root of what is going on here.... I suggest the following questions as starter (and believe me the answers will hurt, but get yourself psychologically prepared for this conversation...): 1. Where do you see the two of us five years from now? 2. I know that we have had difficulty over the last year, what do you think are some of the things that I could have done better? What things do you wish you had done differently? 3. What are my faults that you find the most difficult to deal with? (then you need to figure out whether those are things that are characteristic of you - the ones that are: You have to say, look, I don't think I will be able to become an organized person or I don't think that I can stop socializing with my friends 3 times a week, is that something that you think you can live with? or not? 4. What characteristics/behavior of this OM made you decide to have an affair with this particular OM? 5. What are your thoughts about how the baby should be raised? Can you describe your vision of the type of family that you would like to provide for the child? What role do you see for me in that scenario?
JaneInVegas Posted December 22, 2006 Posted December 22, 2006 It is refreshing to see you handling this maturely and with much thought, after having read so many vindictive things on this message board for so long. I can't imagine being in your position, and I feel for you. As I was reading your update, I got the impression you are contemplating the possibility of staying married and keeping the child? Is this true, or am I reading between the lines wrong? Have you found out "for sure" that she is pregnant? If she is and manages to not miscarriage again ... do you "really" want to raise a child that's not yours? You may be able to tell yourself right now that you can, but I can't imagine you being completely unbiased towards this child as s/he grows up. Could ANYone? I doubt it. I know how much you love your wife, and I truly believe that you do, with all your heart, even after all you've been through. Sometimes love isn't enough. Please think of the child, and truly think hard whether you could be a good caregiver. The child is the most important person in the whole entire mess, and needs to be thought of first. But please ... make sure she's really pregnant, I have a feeling she's bluffing. Please keep us updated!! ... and good luck to you.
mental_traveller Posted December 23, 2006 Posted December 23, 2006 Unlucky, that's pretty much the worst thing that could happen short of a faithful spouse dying. My advice is simple. Get the best attorney you can find, change the locks, serve her with divorce papers, end things now and don't look back. There is a fine line between being "emotionally mature" in handling bad treatment, and being a human doormat who will tolerate any outrageous abuse of trust no matter how bad, and basically get walked all over by a callous and self-centered person. Anger exists for a reason - it's to make people get off their ass and *do* something about bad treatment, instead of lying down and taking it like a weak loser.
mental_traveller Posted December 23, 2006 Posted December 23, 2006 Man...that's just tough. I mean, I know that is the easiest decision in front of me...and know that that is what 95% of anyone would suggest. I just never saw myself at this point. I suppose I had the naive ideal that once we entered marriage, we could take care of all the problems life had to throw at us... But I feel my faith and hope to be stronger than hers...she is focused on one life, and that is of the unborn child...but I am sure that the thoughts of divorce now, are much worse than they will be in a year or two...I just really feel like I am taking the hardest life test I've had to deal with...and I have been given it as a surprise! Also, bear in mind that by not only cheating, but doing so without protection, she put you at risk of DEATH from a sexually transmitted disease.
Author deek Posted December 26, 2006 Author Posted December 26, 2006 I suggest the following questions as starter (and believe me the answers will hurt, but get yourself psychologically prepared for this conversation...): 1. Where do you see the two of us five years from now? 2. I know that we have had difficulty over the last year, what do you think are some of the things that I could have done better? What things do you wish you had done differently? 3. What are my faults that you find the most difficult to deal with? (then you need to figure out whether those are things that are characteristic of you - the ones that are: You have to say, look, I don't think I will be able to become an organized person or I don't think that I can stop socializing with my friends 3 times a week, is that something that you think you can live with? or not? 4. What characteristics/behavior of this OM made you decide to have an affair with this particular OM? 5. What are your thoughts about how the baby should be raised? Can you describe your vision of the type of family that you would like to provide for the child? What role do you see for me in that scenario? Good questions...and thanks for your feedback. I will say that I am keeping an open mind to all of this, and don't feel I can really make any decisions (besides one-sided types) until she is at a point to really talk to me about this stuff. I do like the questions though, although I am not sure she is ready to answer them...she seems to be on a very fine line and could break down at any point...the only fact I have to work with from her is that she is not living with me, at home right now, and she wants to have this child. The OM, her future, me, her family...none of that is decided in anyway, from what I can tell. Just like me, she is taking this one day at a time and based on her therapist, she only has two things to worry about: staying healthy and keeping away from stress. As I was reading your update, I got the impression you are contemplating the possibility of staying married and keeping the child? Is this true, or am I reading between the lines wrong? Have you found out "for sure" that she is pregnant? If she is and manages to not miscarriage again ... do you "really" want to raise a child that's not yours? You may be able to tell yourself right now that you can, but I can't imagine you being completely unbiased towards this child as s/he grows up. Could ANYone? I doubt it. Yes, I am contemplating both staying married and keeping the child...but only if we both can agree on that, which isn't a decision either of us can make at this point. I suppose the main point of what I have said is that whether we stay together or get a divorce, we still need to try and come together and work towards that decision. The problem is, right now, she has made a lot of mistakes and put herself in a very complex situation that is affecting her family, herself, me, my family...and she is trying to make snap decisions in this scenario that no one else is backing...everyone feels that at some point, she is going to have to back down, take a breath and really work through what she has been doing this past year...then at that point, come with me through more therapy to really figure out what was going on...granted, that is assuming that she wants to try and make things work with me... If she doesn't, then she has a lot of obstacles in front of her and a lot of anonymosity focused on her. I mean, her parents have said that supporting her and her child if she stays with the OM is going to be close to impossible...they don't want to see him...and the child, well, that is going to be really tough for them to handle...I mean, the thing is, I am open to try and work things out...whether that ends in divorce or not, I can't say...I just can't take what has happened already and just throw in the towel and walk away, especially without really finding out what has been going on with my wife. As to the child...you are correct, I can say that I can raise him/her as it was my own, but who's to say that I can when I am in those shoes...I guess the thing is, that one of the best chances for the child is to have the rest of the family and a loving mother and father around. I feel that if I do have trouble at times, dealing with the fact that I am not the biological father, than I will have support around me. But the fact that my wife would be with me and we would be putting forth time and effort to fix our differences and have the support of family around us, I think would help out immensely. When you look at it, there are people that adopt, that may have in vetero with other people's sperm and eggs...all sorts of stuff, but that doesn't mean they love the child any less. I realize this is a different situation, but there is no telling whether it is going to be better or worse than anything else...the bottom line is, I would at least try and give me all to make the best of this situation...and I feel that there is enough support to make that happen, as we wouldn't be trying to do it alone and hidden. As to mental_traveller's STD comment...yeah, there are certainly some tests that need to happen here...heck, there's a lot that needs to happen here, that's just one more thing added to the list.
JamesM Posted December 26, 2006 Posted December 26, 2006 Deek, I just read your thread, and you have my sympathy. I cannot imagine all of the anger, pain and confusion you are dealing with. You are doing so quite admirably. Hang in there...and as I have found, I hope you find alot of support here. Just a little humor when I read a post of yours... I have been seeing a therapist. She told her parents this a week or so ago and they told her that she needed to see a therapist, and she started with one last week. Her parents went to see a therapist, as they have a lot of questions and also have problems dealing with this. I've been in contact with her sister, and she too is working with her therapist on how to handle all this. So, the positive thing right now is we are all getting help. I am guessing that all of the therapists are happy you are getting help. It is amazing to me how one person can have such an impact on so many people's lives. I just can't take what has happened already and just throw in the towel and walk away, especially without really finding out what has been going on with my wife And it will be good for you if you knew that you gave it everything you had to make it work. You will be a much better person in the long run, and you will not need to ask "What if?" because you will know that you tried o answer all of those questions. Good luck, and thanks for the update.
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